[Proposal] Brock, Myers, Hoglander OUTTA here

[BPA]

42 minutes ago, JM_ said:

bingo.

 

Capfriendly is showing Vegas 1+ mil over the cap for next year right now. 

Offer Roy $4M x 4yr which Vegas will probably match.  Then offer Hague and Howden $1.3M x 3yr.  Lol.  FREE assets!!!!

 

 

[Nucker 67]

?? - Miller - Podkolzin

?? - Pettersson - Garland

Hoglander - Horvat - Lockwood

 

Hughes - ??

Dermott - ??

 

Demko

 

Lots of holes to fill, but if they can re-sign Bo and JT to reasonable contracts, they've got their top Cs down the middle - super important positions to fill. Maybe the most important. Surround them with cheaper, faster wingers. Sorry Boeser, you're gone. Same with you Pearson. 

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

?? - Miller - Podkolzin

?? - Pettersson - Garland

Hoglander - Horvat - Lockwood

 

Hughes - ??

Dermott - ??

 

Demko

 

Lots of holes to fill, but if they can re-sign Bo and JT to reasonable contracts, they've got their top Cs down the middle - super important positions to fill. Maybe the most important. Surround them with cheaper, faster wingers. Sorry Boeser, you're gone. Same with you Pearson. 

What happened to OEL?  

[Nucker 67]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

What happened to OEL?  

That's a good question  

[wildcam]

11 hours ago, HKSR said:

Ok, this is a @hammertime inspired trade proposal

 

TRADE #1 (courtesy of @hammertime)

To NJD:

Boeser

 

To VAN:
Graves

 

NJD have Graves, Bahl, Siegenthaler, Okhotyuk, and now Mukhamadullin coming up.  All on the left side.  Moving Graves frees up the spot for Mukhamadullin.

Canucks get Graves, a much needed shut down defender so that OEL can be relieved of his duties and can focus on offence.

 

TRADE #2

To CLB/DAL/other:

Myers

 

To VAN:
3rd Round Pick

 

Columbus and Dallas first came to mind as teams that could use a big minute munching RHD like Myers.

Canucks get a 3rd round pick (seems to be the standard for cap dumping defencemen that are capable defenders)

 

TRADE #3

To ARZ:

Hoglander

Rathbone

3rd Round Pick (from the Myers deal)

 

To VAN:
Crouse

 

ARZ gets 2 young up and coming propects with fantastic upside, as well as a 3rd rounder.  Perfect for what they're trying to do right now.

Canucks get Crouse.  A fantastic forward with size, speed, grit, and looks to be just coming into his own (20 goals this year).  Perfect for the Top 6 moving forward.

 

Now to the projections:

 

Assuming the cap goes up by $1M per year for the next 3 years, then a very conservative $2M per year after that (after escrow taken care of in 2024-25)...

 

$8.5M x 8 for Miller

$7M AAV for Horvat

$9M AAV for Petey

Poolman traded while retaining $750k for a bag of pucks.  He becomes MUCH more tradeable at a $1.75M cap hit for a serviceable RHD.

Sign Josh Manson for $5M AAV -- knowing he will play next to Hughes for the remainder of his prime career?  He will sign here.

Sign Ilya Lyubushkin for $2.75M AAV -- defensive defenceman for OEL to finally play offensively

Sign Nic Deslauriers for $2.25M AAV. 

 

LOTS of cap space to play with, and that's WITH a significant Miller extension.  When the window finally blows wide open in 3 years or so, our main pieces are all set and we STILL have millions in cap room to work with to improve on the already great core of players that are here.

 

When Petey and Hughes hit their peak (in 3 or 4 years):

 

Top 6:

Miller-Petey-Podkolzin

Garland-Horvat-Crouse

 

Defence Core:

Hughes-Manson -- 1st pairing, perfect!

OEL-Lyubushkin -- 2nd pairing, unlocks OEL's offensive abilities (45 to 50pt defenceman)

Graves-Dermott -- your shutdown pair

Schenn/Woo (7th D)

 

At some point, we'll have ELCs and young guys moving up.  Thinking Karlsson, Woo, and others.  They will help fill in the bottom 6 and bottom defence pair (or 7th D).  I feel that Woo could eventually replace Lyubushkin.

 

Also of note, in 7 or 8 years when Miller is making $8.5M and the team has $8M to $10M in cap to work with?  I really don't care if he's putting up 50pts.  There's room to add a Top 6 player that pushes him onto the 3rd line.  Now you have even more depth.  So quit your crying about him being an anchor contract.  Play your cards right and it won't even matter.

 

OMG no no...

Boeser is worth much more then Graves...

Boeser NJ-( 25 - 30 G )  60-65 points--- Graves 26, 6'4 # 4 or #5 D man---Zacha 25,, 6'3 C

Rathbone- 22 - Hoglander 21------ Crouse 25 June, 6'4, 220 -- GP 64 -20 G --34PTS  on poor team, would add grit and size.Should get 55 PTS in Vancouver

[Elias Pettersson]

Isn't Ryan Graves a UFA in 2023?  We're gonna trade Brock for a guy one year away from potentially walking away for nothing?

 

Also, I have no interest in trading Rathbone at this time.  Look at Gustav Forsling and then tell me you want to trade Rathbone, who's gonna be ALOT better than Forsling.

 

I can see Hoglander getting moved out, as he is smallish and we need bigger wingers.  I like Crouse and I would include Hoglander in that trade but not Rathbone.  

[Dixon Ward]

12 hours ago, HKSR said:

Ok, this is a @hammertime inspired trade proposal

 

TRADE #1 (courtesy of @hammertime)

To NJD:

Boeser

 

To VAN:
Graves

 

NJD have Graves, Bahl, Siegenthaler, Okhotyuk, and now Mukhamadullin coming up.  All on the left side.  Moving Graves frees up the spot for Mukhamadullin.

Canucks get Graves, a much needed shut down defender so that OEL can be relieved of his duties and can focus on offence.

 

TRADE #2

To CLB/DAL/other:

Myers

 

To VAN:
3rd Round Pick

 

Columbus and Dallas first came to mind as teams that could use a big minute munching RHD like Myers.

Canucks get a 3rd round pick (seems to be the standard for cap dumping defencemen that are capable defenders)

 

TRADE #3

To ARZ:

Hoglander

Rathbone

3rd Round Pick (from the Myers deal)

 

To VAN:
Crouse

 

ARZ gets 2 young up and coming propects with fantastic upside, as well as a 3rd rounder.  Perfect for what they're trying to do right now.

Canucks get Crouse.  A fantastic forward with size, speed, grit, and looks to be just coming into his own (20 goals this year).  Perfect for the Top 6 moving forward.

 

Now to the projections:

 

Assuming the cap goes up by $1M per year for the next 3 years, then a very conservative $2M per year after that (after escrow taken care of in 2024-25)...

 

$8.5M x 8 for Miller

$7M AAV for Horvat

$9M AAV for Petey

Poolman traded while retaining $750k for a bag of pucks.  He becomes MUCH more tradeable at a $1.75M cap hit for a serviceable RHD.

Sign Josh Manson for $5M AAV -- knowing he will play next to Hughes for the remainder of his prime career?  He will sign here.

Sign Ilya Lyubushkin for $2.75M AAV -- defensive defenceman for OEL to finally play offensively

Sign Nic Deslauriers for $2.25M AAV. 

 

LOTS of cap space to play with, and that's WITH a significant Miller extension.  When the window finally blows wide open in 3 years or so, our main pieces are all set and we STILL have millions in cap room to work with to improve on the already great core of players that are here.

 

When Petey and Hughes hit their peak (in 3 or 4 years):

 

Top 6:

Miller-Petey-Podkolzin

Garland-Horvat-Crouse

 

Defence Core:

Hughes-Manson -- 1st pairing, perfect!

OEL-Lyubushkin -- 2nd pairing, unlocks OEL's offensive abilities (45 to 50pt defenceman)

Graves-Dermott -- your shutdown pair

Schenn/Woo (7th D)

 

At some point, we'll have ELCs and young guys moving up.  Thinking Karlsson, Woo, and others.  They will help fill in the bottom 6 and bottom defence pair (or 7th D).  I feel that Woo could eventually replace Lyubushkin.

 

Also of note, in 7 or 8 years when Miller is making $8.5M and the team has $8M to $10M in cap to work with?  I really don't care if he's putting up 50pts.  There's room to add a Top 6 player that pushes him onto the 3rd line.  Now you have even more depth.  So quit your crying about him being an anchor contract.  Play your cards right and it won't even matter.

 

So we are giving up a top 6 RW, a top 4 RHD, a top 9 LW, and our top d prospect for a big LHD (which OEL and Hughes play) and a 3rd line C?  This sucks IMHO.   Hopefully Allvin is a better GM than this.

[Pears]

33 minutes ago, Dixon Ward said:

So we are giving up a top 6 RW, a top 4 RHD, a top 9 LW, and our top d prospect for a big LHD (which OEL and Hughes play) and a 3rd line C?  This sucks IMHO.   Hopefully Allvin is a better GM than this.

And someone who’s a UFA after next season. If we’re trading Brock which we probably will end up doing, it’ll be for either a bundle of prospects and picks or a young NHL ready RD. Our left side is fine going into next year and should be even better with how Rathbone has developed. 

[BigTramFan]

I think I'd trade Garland for Graves if an decent extension could be agreed in advance.

[HKSR]

7 hours ago, Dixon Ward said:

So we are giving up a top 6 RW, a top 4 RHD, a top 9 LW, and our top d prospect for a big LHD (which OEL and Hughes play) and a 3rd line C?  This sucks IMHO.   Hopefully Allvin is a better GM than this.

I don't think you know who Graves and Crouse are.  

 

Crouse would be a top 6 winger here without a doubt at all.

 

Graves would be this team's best defensive defenceman by a landslide. 

 

 

Cap space saved from moving Boeser also allows us to bring in our top 4 RHD, and another solid RHD via UFA.  So 2 more RHD.

[Alflives]

7 hours ago, Dixon Ward said:

So we are giving up a top 6 RW, a top 4 RHD, a top 9 LW, and our top d prospect for a big LHD (which OEL and Hughes play) and a 3rd line C?  This sucks IMHO.   Hopefully Allvin is a better GM than this.

We, as fans, don’t like trades like this because they are (by their nature) sacrificing prospects/picks to win now and not care about our future.  But I think our owner wants to try to push hard for the playoffs next next year.  So a trade like this just might actually happen.  We saw this exactly with Benning.  And IMHAO that’s our owner’s philosophy making impact.  

[Highstickin]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

I don't think you know who Graves and Crouse are.  

 

Crouse would be a top 6 winger here without a doubt at all.

 

Graves would be this team's best defensive defenceman by a landslide. 

 

 

Cap space saved from moving Boeser also allows us to bring in our top 4 RHD, and another solid RHD via UFA.  So 2 more RHD.

I like having the available cap space for roster flexibility but I would be concerned over trying to fix our RHD through free agency. 

 

How many top 4 RHD are free agents at the end of this season? How many teams out there are also looking for a top 4 RHD? Vancouver has had a tough time attracting free agents in the past without having to over pay, so what has changed that would allow us to sign a top 4 RHD to a reasonable contract especially when the supply/demand ratio is not in our favour? 

 

I think we will have a hard time find the solid RHD you suggest let alone a top 4 that fits into our core age group. I would go so far as to say our chances of fixing the RHD through FA is about the same as fixing it through the draft. Too much left to chance for my liking, fix the RHD by getting the right piece in a trade. 

[HKSR]

Just now, Highstickin said:

I like having the available cap space for roster flexibility but I would be concerned over trying to fix our RHD through free agency. 

 

How many top 4 RHD are free agents at the end of this season? How many teams out there are also looking for a top 4 RHD? Vancouver has had a tough time attracting free agents in the past without having to over pay, so what has changed that would allow us to sign a top 4 RHD to a reasonable contract especially when the supply/demand ratio is not in our favour? 

 

I think we will have a hard time find the solid RHD you suggest let alone a top 4 that fits into our core age group. I would go so far as to say our chances of fixing the RHD through FA is about the same as fixing it through the draft. Too much left to chance for my liking, fix the RHD by getting the right piece in a trade. 

I think the selling feature in UFA for a RHD is that it's clear we're looking for a partner for Quinn Hughes.  If you tell a guy that they will be playing side-by-side on the top pairing with one of the premier young defencemen in the league, it's a huge advantage when it comes to coercing a UFA RHD to Vancouver.

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

We, as fans, don’t like trades like this because they are (by their nature) sacrificing prospects/picks to win now and not care about our future.  But I think our owner wants to try to push hard for the playoffs next next year.  So a trade like this just might actually happen.  We saw this exactly with Benning.  And IMHAO that’s our owner’s philosophy making impact.  

Are we really sacrificing that much future? 

 

Crouse is 24

Graves is 26

 

 

And then don't forget we are unloading a 32 year old Myers.

 

[Highstickin]

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I think the selling feature in UFA for a RHD is that it's clear we're looking for a partner for Quinn Hughes.  If you tell a guy that they will be playing side-by-side on the top pairing with one of the premier young defencemen in the league, it's a huge advantage when it comes to coercing a UFA RHD to Vancouver.

Maybe that works for some guys but I don't think I would bank on it. Given the option of playing with Hughes or playing in a low/free tax market or a warm climate, I'm sure there are many that would choose the latter. As good as Quinn is, I don't think we can rely on him to draw players in. 

[HKSR]

15 minutes ago, Highstickin said:

Maybe that works for some guys but I don't think I would bank on it. Given the option of playing with Hughes or playing in a low/free tax market or a warm climate, I'm sure there are many that would choose the latter. As good as Quinn is, I don't think we can rely on him to draw players in. 

I think you'd be surprised how many guys would be interested in the opportunity to play 1st pairing minutes next to a superstar like Quinn Hughes.  That opportunity doesn't present itself all the time.

[Highstickin]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I think you'd be surprised how many guys would be interested in the opportunity to play 1st pairing minutes next to a superstar like Quinn Hughes.  That opportunity doesn't present itself all the time.

Ok so how many top pair RHD are free agents? And which top pair RHD would you target out of the free agents this year? 

[Dixon Ward]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

I don't think you know who Graves and Crouse are.  

 

Crouse would be a top 6 winger here without a doubt at all.

 

Graves would be this team's best defensive defenceman by a landslide. 

 

 

Cap space saved from moving Boeser also allows us to bring in our top 4 RHD, and another solid RHD via UFA.  So 2 more RHD.

Lawson Crouse, 24, big, not particularly tough and has 110 pts in his first 346 games.  Those are nowhere near top 6 pt totals.

 

Brock Boeser, 25, has 254 pts in his first 321 games.  That's more like it.

 

If you think that Graves is a landslide better than OEL or Luke Shenn on the defensive side, look again.

 

I understand that 7.5 is too much for Boeser at this point.  He probably should be traded if a better deal cannot be reached.  But to throw in Myers, Rathbone and Hoglander and only get those two is a very bad deal for the Canucks.  

[Dixon Ward]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

We, as fans, don’t like trades like this because they are (by their nature) sacrificing prospects/picks to win now and not care about our future.  But I think our owner wants to try to push hard for the playoffs next next year.  So a trade like this just might actually happen.  We saw this exactly with Benning.  And IMHAO that’s our owner’s philosophy making impact.  

Imo Myers was really good this year.  The teams' defense wasn't the problem.  We would be solidly in the playoffs if EP, Horvat, and Boeser got scoring of the bat, particularly EP.  If he was going, we would have 6-8 more wins and we would be easily in the playoffs.  Our markets' fans just love trades for the sake of trades and are incredibly pessimistic.  Based on the games under Boudreau, we are not that far off.  

[HKSR]

5 minutes ago, Highstickin said:

Ok so how many top pair RHD are free agents? And which top pair RHD would you target out of the free agents this year? 

Manson is the main target this year.  Lyubushkin would be another option, albeit not as ideal.

Next year there's several that COULD be available (depending if they get re-signed by their teams)... the obvious slam dunk would be Cernak.  Others available could be Severson, Mayfield, Weegar. 

 

I just think drafting one this year or next year is being very optimistic that they player will turn into a top pairing RHD in 3 years.

 

Trading for one?  I've mentioned before, how many quality established Top 4 RHD are moved?  If a team has two Top 4 RHD, why would they move one and create a hole?  We're basically shopping for 3rd pairing RHD hoping he will turn into a Top 4.