Me_ Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: Spooner Dickinson Poolman Schmidt Toffoli debacle, traded a pick and "ran out of time" to re-sign - walked for nothing LOUI Player Name Sam Gagner Del Zotto Antione Roussel Jay Beagle Luca Sbisa Bonino, Clendening and a 2nd round pick for Sutter McCann, 2nd round pick and a 4th round pick for Gudbranson (my god) Sven Baertschi Gustaf Forsling for Adam Clendening Alex Burmistrov Travis Hamonic Tim Schaller $6m for Myers Tanev, Stecher, Toffoli walk while keeping Virtanen, signing Holtby and trading for Schmidt (3rd rounder) .Now believe it or not, there are actually MORE to list but I made my point... Now, you Benning also had many draft misses - shocking I know. Jake Virtanen Nikita Tryamkin Guillaume Brisbois Olli Juolevi Kole Lind Jonah Gadjovich Jett Woo Tyler Madden But yeah you're right, Benning is a master rebuilder. Ugh a bit the bait, again.... Go ahead and objectively add all of the failures of all other fired GMs shall you? That way we can have a great comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Me_ said: Go ahead and objectively add all of the failures of all other fired GMs shall you? That way we can have a great comparable. Difference is we all admit other gm's had faults, you refuse to admit Benning had disproportionally more misses than hits and all you can say is he was a "master rebuilder" which is objectively untrue or he would have built a winner. - You just release yourself and let reality hit you in the face. Drafting and rebuilding are two different things, rebuilding is drafting, free agent signing and trades, cap management, developing prospects.. Benning only did one of these semi-well. My 8 year old niece could have drafted Quinn Hughes and taken credit for it, he was a grade A prospect lol. Nobody was gonna miss that. Edited June 23, 2022 by Harold Drunken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: Difference is we all admit other gm's had faults, you refuse to admit Benning had disproportionally more misses than hits and all you can say is he was a "master rebuilder" which is objectively untrue or he would have built a winner. did benning even plan a proper rebuild? i think he just drafted high but didn't plan to. he traded away picks and prospects for older and more developed - ready now - players to make the playoffs every year. he failed at that and drafted high kind of by accident. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: did benning even plan a proper rebuild? i think he just drafted high but didn't plan to. he traded away picks and prospects for older and more developed - ready now - players to make the playoffs every year. he failed at that and drafted high kind of by accident. Haha -Like I said above, My 8 year old niece could have drafted Quinn Hughes and taken credit for it, he was a grade A prospect lol. Nobody was gonna miss that. He wasn't some diamond in the rough that Benning found with some form of Wizardry, he was a can't miss prospect. Drafting and rebuilding are two different things, rebuilding is drafting, free agent signing and trades, cap management, developing prospects.. Benning only did one of these semi-well Edited June 23, 2022 by Harold Drunken 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Harold Drunken said: Haha -Like I said above, My 8 year old niece could have drafted Quinn Hughes and taken credit for it, he was a grade A prospect lol. Nobody was gonna miss that. He wasn't some diamond in the rough that Benning found with some form of Wizardry, he was a can't miss prospect. and rebuilding properly would have meant lots of second and third round picks, which is where a lot of very good nhl d come from. yet benning traded those picks away. there was no plan to rebuild. almost every move benning made was to win now. and he didn't win anything. Gillis' teams won two president trophies and got to the Cup Final. Don't see how there is really a comparison between the two. Benning was a failure on every level here. our owner should have kept Gillis and supported the proper rebuild. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: and rebuilding properly would have meant lots of second and third round picks, which is where a lot of very good nhl d come from. yet benning traded those picks away. there was no plan to rebuild. almost every move benning made was to win now. and he didn't win anything. Gillis' teams won two president trophies and got to the Cup Final. Don't see how there is really a comparison between the two. Benning was a failure on every level here. our owner should have kept Gillis and supported the proper rebuild. 1000000% correct. Saying "Benning was a good GM because he drafted Hughes, Pettersson" is such an incredibly lazy argument and completely cutting out the big picture and the major aspect of his job. Rebuilding is so much more complicated than drafting first round talent only. It's just insane how he continues to argue his case when being repeatedly subjected to overwhelming evidence to the contrary...... That's like saying I missed 498 out of 500 pitches, but two of them were home runs so I'm an amazing batter. That's the world we live in now, though. Edited June 23, 2022 by Harold Drunken 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 21 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: Spooner Dickinson Poolman Schmidt Toffoli debacle, traded a pick and "ran out of time" to re-sign - walked for nothing LOUI Player Name Sam Gagner Del Zotto Antione Roussel Jay Beagle Luca Sbisa Bonino, Clendening and a 2nd round pick for Sutter McCann, 2nd round pick and a 4th round pick for Gudbranson (my god) Sven Baertschi Gustaf Forsling for Adam Clendening Alex Burmistrov Travis Hamonic Tim Schaller $6m for Myers Tanev, Stecher, Toffoli walk while keeping Virtanen, signing Holtby and trading for Schmidt (3rd rounder) Our current cap situation Our current lack of prospects .Now believe it or not, there are actually MORE to list but I made my point... Now, you Benning also had many draft misses - shocking I know. Jake Virtanen Nikita Tryamkin Guillaume Brisbois Olli Juolevi Kole Lind Jonah Gadjovich Jett Woo Tyler Madden But yeah you're right, Benning is a master rebuilder. Ugh a bit the bait, again.... Man I forgot how bad that Sutter deal was. We gave up the best player as well as 2 other pieces. If this management group can have us looking good in 3 years I would be very impressed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Man I forgot how bad that Sutter deal was. We gave up the best player as well as 2 other pieces. If this management group can have us looking good in 3 years I would be very impressed. If you look into some of these trades. and see how many 2nd and 3rd round picks we gave away it makes you sick. Really explains our lack of prospects and organizational depth. We have very little no show for most of those moves other than cap troubles and lack of talent. Do yourself a favor and don't look into who those traded picks could have turned into...it get's worse. Edited June 23, 2022 by Harold Drunken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Harold Drunken said: If you look into some of these trades. and see how many 2nd and 3rd round picks we gave away it makes you sick. Really explains our lack of prospects and organizational depth. We have very little no show for most of those trades. Do yourself a favor and don't look into who those traded picks could have turned into...it get's worse. I don’t worry about that last part as it is predicated on the idea that we would have picked whoever it is and frankly given our history, I doubt we would have picked that player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, DrJockitch said: I don’t worry about that last part as it is predicated on the idea that we would have picked whoever it is and frankly given our history, I doubt we would have picked that player. Great point too, but ya never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: Haha -Like I said above, My 8 year old niece could have drafted Quinn Hughes and taken credit for it, he was a grade A prospect lol. Nobody was gonna miss that. He wasn't some diamond in the rough that Benning found with some form of Wizardry, he was a can't miss prospect. Drafting and rebuilding are two different things, rebuilding is drafting, free agent signing and trades, cap management, developing prospects.. Benning only did one of these semi-well Is that a fact? Because Detroit didn’t draft him and he was in their backyard. Edited June 23, 2022 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 29 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: 1000000% correct. Saying "Benning was a good GM because he drafted Hughes, Pettersson" is such an incredibly lazy argument and completely cutting out the big picture and the major aspect of his job. Rebuilding is so much more complicated than drafting first round talent only. It's just insane how he continues to argue his case when being repeatedly subjected to overwhelming evidence to the contrary...... That's like saying I missed 498 out of 500 pitches, but two of them were home runs so I'm an amazing batter. That's the world we live in now, though. Much more complicated. Especially from your couch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 36 minutes ago, Me_ said: Much more complicated. Especially from your couch. Lol, you're hopeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Me_ said: Is that a fact? Because Detroit didn’t draft him and he was in their backyard. Yeah - I guess using your logic, every team between 1-6 completely missed out on him, despite having their own unique draft boards, scouting departments, needs and other top rated prospects available ........ You're ridiculous man, grasping at straws. Does it just completely eat you alive inside to even consider your opinion may not be the right one? Why do you keep going in this circle? Let it go, you're making a fool of yourself now. Edited June 23, 2022 by Harold Drunken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: Yeah - I guess using your logic, every team between 1-6 completely missed out on him, despite having their own unique draft boards, scouting departments, needs and other top rated prospects available ........ You're ridiculous man, grasping at straws. So you admit that other teams also often “miss out” on 1-6. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Just now, Me_ said: So you admit that other teams also often “miss out” on 1-6. K Absolutely, there was no sarcasm there at all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whysoserious Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 32 minutes ago, Me_ said: So you admit that other teams also often “miss out” on 1-6. K Yes, every team has misses. But, with all of Benning's ineptitudes he would have had to hit complete home runs in all those picks to be even considered an average GM, and that's being generous. If you based your pick on looking at a few mock drafts/rankings you would probably have a similar drafting record to Benning. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 hour ago, whysoserious said: Yes, every team has misses. But, with all of Benning's ineptitudes he would have had to hit complete home runs in all those picks to be even considered an average GM, and that's being generous. If you based your pick on looking at a few mock drafts/rankings you would probably have a similar drafting record to Benning. So basically a whole bunch of you think Benning is the village idiot. The builder of the exact same team you watched since Green left. Well I’ll be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Me_ said: So basically a whole bunch of you think Benning is the village idiot. The builder of the exact same team you watched since Green left. Well I’ll be damned. No Benning is not an idiot. But his arrogant belief he could draft the needed key pieces and support players to fill out his club with so many fewer picks than a true rebuilding team would have - was idiotic. To me, that’s Benning’s biggest reason for such disastrous failure. Trading away so many second and third round picks, when he should have been collecting them, and using them to either select players or as capital to acquire much needed (quality) support pieces. Very often good D come out of rounds two and three. Edited June 23, 2022 by Alflives 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 59 minutes ago, Me_ said: So basically a whole bunch of you think Benning is the village idiot. The builder of the exact same team you watched since Green left. Well I’ll be damned. 4 hours ago, Harold Drunken said: If you look into some of these trades. and see how many 2nd and 3rd round picks we gave away it makes you sick. Really explains our lack of prospects and organizational depth. We have very little no show for most of those moves other than cap troubles and lack of talent. Do yourself a favor and don't look into who those traded picks could have turned into...it get's worse. 44 minutes ago, Alflives said: No Benning is not an idiot. But his arrogant belief he could draft the needed key pieces and support players to fill out his club with so many fewer picks than a true rebuilding team would have - was idiotic. To me, that’s Benning’s biggest reason for such disastrous failure. Trading away so many second and third round picks, when he should have been collecting them, and using them to either select players or as capital to acquire much needed (quality) support pieces. Very often good D come out of rounds two and three. Jumping on the bandwagon here. After 8 years with a bunch of high drafts along the way and an owner willing to spend to the cap every year, the team got off to arguably the worst start in team history. It was certainly by far the worst relative to expectations in team history, and with a weak prospect pipeline and not even a full set of draft picks coming up. Obviously coaching was an issue and there was some bad luck involved, but that record is a fail for a GM. As for the specifics, I think @Alf and @Harold Druken are right. The biggest single problem was not playing to his strength-drafting. His draft record was not great but it was pretty good, certainly above average. In every other area he was below average -- not the village idiot maybe -- but worse than most other GMs. Not every trade was bad and not every UFA free agent was bad but most were bad and, despite a few ups and downs along the way, the team lost ground pretty much every year through Benning's churning. Alf is right about over-confidence. This came through in many quotes. He thought he could outdraft other GMs despite giving up too many picks in "win-now" impatience that gradually changed to desperation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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