Canuck D Pairings -- Some Surprises

[Me_]

57 minutes ago, hammertime said:

That's how you break your toys. 

 

It's probably not smart to have 21m Hughes Pete OEL on the ice PKing. If Hughes brakes his foot blocking a shot bye bye playoffs. Would be better to get them some better quality ice time and have guys like Schenn Burr Myers Dermott PK. If they aren't up to the task then you look to make some adjustments to that group. 

 

my $0.02

Boys just wanna be on the ice.
 

Lettem’

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Me_

[Me_]

On 6/19/2022 at 12:41 PM, DrJockitch said:

That’s a good perspective but I think if you say okay take every teams players and prospects under 25 and rank them we still don’t rank all that highly. 
The prospects are also what give a team near the cap cost controlled players coming in to fill gaps and give depth, we can do that on left D and goal currently with NHL level players and that is about it. 

We rank pretty damn well in quality firsts I’d say. Benning’s mandate was to rebuild. 
 

Benning rebuilt this team. Benning, is a rebuilder.

 

Boeser

Pettersson

1D Hughes

Podkolzin is going to be a beast

1st for Miller who leads the team

 

Five working 1st rounders out of 7. That’s an excellent success ratio.

 

Add a 1G who has a few wizard cards to throw at the opposition giving them PTSD..

 

Add other picks who have turned out like Höglander…

 

I think we’re in great shape.

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Me_

[DrJockitch]

11 minutes ago, Me_ said:

We rank pretty damn well in quality firsts I’d say. Benning’s mandate was to rebuild. 
 

Benning rebuilt this team. Benning, is a rebuilder.

 

Boeser

Pettersson

1D Hughes

Podkolzin is going to be a beast

1st for Miller who leads the team

 

Add a 1G who has a few wizard cards to throw at the opposition giving them PTSD..

 

I think we’re in great shape.

I think we are thin on quality youth, thin on prospects of any kinds and thin on NHL talent across the board. 

[whysoserious]

19 hours ago, -DLC- said:

Gotcha.

 

"Too many holes" is your opinion/assessment. You make it sound so much worse than it really is. Under Bruce, we were a different team than before he arrived.

 

We aren't what you say we are because you say it. Perennial contenders come over time, they aren't add water and stir deals. Most of the teams that do go on to find continued success have top draft picks who often take time to develop and get there. So maybe you should afford ours the same luxury. Picking in the top 3 provides a bit of an advantage and some teams have had multiple top picks, and it shows. A whole lot of suffering often came before that.

 

On paper doesn't always pan out as expected. One thing you have to factor in is chemistry and how teams can start to gel (and click) over time with some familiarity and I feel this team is JUST really starting to settle in under Bruce. I'd like a bit longer to see what that looks like.

 

I don't argue that we need to upgrade but it's not what you make it out to be. IMO

 

 

How am I making it worse than it actually is? They are what I say they are not just because I said it, but because that’s what they’ve shown they are up to this point. They definitely played better after Bruce joined, but like JR said it wasn’t a full season. Keep in mind last season was basically us going all in. We spent to the cap, traded back to back 1st round picks and we still came up short. How many teams in the past 50 years have traded back to back 1st round picks and still missed the playoffs? Never mind the fact that Bruce isn’t even signed beyond this season. The fact of the matter is, we don’t have a 3C, we don’t have a single defender on the right side that can be considered a core piece, we have no bluechip center or RHD prospects coming up, and we have almost no cap space to make significant additions. We also still need to figure out how to sign Petey long term. Maybe these don’t seem like big issues to you, but I’d say it is definitely more than just an “upgrade”. And yes, on paper doesn’t mean everything. But, I’d argue that having a good team is necessary condition and not a sufficient one. How many teams that don't look good on paper consistently make the playoffs?

[Harold Drunken]

On 6/13/2022 at 2:06 PM, VancouverHabitant said:

This tells me that you either didn't watch the Canucks or the Flames... Or maybe neither team. 

 

Zadorov was one of the most sheltered dmen on Calgary, playing on their 3rd pairing. 

Fair point, I guess what I'm trying to say is OEL is historically an offensive defenseman, and is paid as such. 

 

If we are going to sit here and say "well he played well defensively last year" that's fine, but he's still massively overpaid and if we are going to hold him in that role and there are much cheaper options that will put up similar point totals for much less money..i guess was my point. Zadorov not a great example maybe but there are plenty out there. With OEL being paid this much, he needs to contribute offensively and put up 40-50 point while not being a liability which he showed last year he can play well in a more defensive role. I have a feeling BB and JR want to put OEL in more offensive situations this year. But let's not get it twisted his contract is GIANT anchor...he's an asset back there just not at his inflated price. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Deets]

36 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Fair point, I guess what I'm trying to say is OEL is historically an offensive defenseman, and is paid as such. 

 

If we are going to sit here and say "well he played well defensively last year" that's fine, but he's still massively overpaid and if we are going to hold him in that role and there are much cheaper options that will put up similar point totals for much less money..i guess was my point. Zadorov not a great example maybe but there are plenty out there. With OEL being paid this much, he needs to contribute offensively and put up 40-50 point while not being a liability which he showed last year he can play well in a more defensive role. I have a feeling BB and JR was to put OEL in more offensive situations this year. But let's not get it twisted his contract is GIANT anchor...he's an asset back there just not at his inflated price. 

If we want OEL to play a strictly offensive role we need to pair him with someone that can pick up the slack defensively. When Hughes was injured, OEL stepped up and looked great on the PP and his scoring rate went way up. Pairing him with Tyler Myers means OEL isn't able to take risks like he would in an offense first game.

 

I'm not disagreeing that OEL needs to bring more value for his contract size, but I do believe he still has it in him to put up 50pts with the right D pairing. Our RHD pool is actually pathetic, and for both Hughes and OEL's sake Rutherford needs to address this as his top concern this offseason.

[Harold Drunken]

4 minutes ago, Deets said:

If we want OEL to play a strictly offensive role we need to pair him with someone that can pick up the slack defensively. When Hughes was injured, OEL stepped up and looked great on the PP and his scoring rate went way up. Pairing him with Tyler Myers means OEL isn't able to take risks like he would in an offense first game.

 

I'm not disagreeing that OEL needs to bring more value for his contract size, but I do believe he still has it in him to put up 50pts with the right D pairing. Our RHD pool is actually pathetic, and for both Hughes and OEL's sake Rutherford needs to address this as his top concern this offseason.

I 100% agree, he would need a defensively sound d partner. They haven't really set him up for success in that regard, our blueline is a mess in it's current state, they will no doubt address it. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Harold Drunken]

On 6/19/2022 at 11:25 AM, Me_ said:

We rank pretty damn well in quality firsts I’d say. Benning’s mandate was to rebuild. 
 

Benning rebuilt this team. Benning, is a rebuilder.

 

Boeser

Pettersson

1D Hughes

Podkolzin is going to be a beast

1st for Miller who leads the team

 

Add a 1G who has a few wizard cards to throw at the opposition giving them PTSD..

 

I think we’re in great shape.

 

Yes, he was SO good at rebuilding for 7 years he was fired. You live in an alternate reality. 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Harold Drunken]

On 6/19/2022 at 11:25 AM, Me_ said:

We rank pretty damn well in quality firsts I’d say. Benning’s mandate was to rebuild. 
 

Benning rebuilt this team. Benning, is a rebuilder.

 

Boeser

Pettersson

1D Hughes

Podkolzin is going to be a beast

1st for Miller who leads the team

 

Add a 1G who has a few wizard cards to throw at the opposition giving them PTSD..

 

I think we’re in great shape.

I'm starting to think you are THE Jim Benning. 

 

 

 

[Me_]

2 hours ago, Harold Drunken said:

 

Yes, he was SO good at rebuilding for 7 years he was fired. You live in an alternate reality. 

 

 

Fun game:

 

Name me one coach and / or one GM who was not fired at some point.

 

NONE.

 

Here’s another game:

 

Imagine Nonis taking on the declining 2014 team and rebuilding it.

 

Patrick White ring a bell?

 

Gotta give credit where credit is due.

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Me_

[Me_]

2 hours ago, Harold Drunken said:

I'm starting to think you are THE Jim Benning. 

 

 

 

Damn.

 

You got me.

[Harold Drunken]

3 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Fun game:

 

Name me one coach and / or one GM who was not fired at some point.

 

NONE.

 

Here’s another game:

 

Imagine Nonis taking on the declining 2014 team and rebuilding it.

 

Patrick White ring a bell?

 

Gove credit where credit is due.

 

Jim Benning was not a good GM. 

 

Scouts and many others are also largely responsible for draft picks - you can't sit there and say "we picked some good players in the first round so he's a good G.M" - that's an incredibly lazy argument.

 

The bad largely out numbers the good, hence why the teams he built were not successful, very mediocre and his entire regime has been wiped off the board in the head office

 

Our cap troubles are 100% on his shoulders. 

 

He was inept in free agency

 

Yes he hit on Miller, but whiffed on countless others.

 

The rest is history he's gone and good riddance. 

 

 

[Me_]

4 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

Jim Benning was not a good GM. 

 

Scouts and many others are also largely responsible for draft picks - you can't sit there and say "we picked some good players in the first round so he's a good G.M" - that's an incredibly lazy argument.

 

The bad largely out numbers the good, hence why the teams he built were not successful, very mediocre and his entire regime has been wiped off the board in the head office

 

Our cap troubles are 100% on his shoulders. 

 

He was inept in free agency

 

Yes he hit on Miller, but whiffed on countless others.

 

The rest is history he's gone and good riddance. 

 

 

Let’s see where Green lands (FLA?) and see how successful he is.

 

I think it was in large part that Green was a disaster. 

[Alflives]

Just now, Me_ said:

Let’s see where Green lands (FLA?) and see how successful he is.

 

I think it was in large part that Green was a disaster. 

650 this morning saying Green is being interviewed for some assistant coaching positions.  Seems he's going to take a step back.  Maybe he coaches in the AHL again, like others have done, so he can be the head coach?  But being the head coach on an NHL team right now isn't going to happen for Green, or at least it shouldn't.  

[Harold Drunken]

8 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Let’s see where Green lands (FLA?) and see how successful he is.

 

I think it was in large part that Green was a disaster. 

Then we would have to blame Desjardins too, I guess blame anybody but Benning is the motto?

 

The GM signs the players, trades for players, drafts players (with some help) and literally build the team.... but let's not hold him accountable at all for the teams performance for the better part of a decade. If Jim Benning was a great GM who rebuilds, he would have left a quality team with depth, a prospect pipeline who is playoff caliber. This team is and has none of those, so let's blame Travis Green for that? Come on man lol - is Benning your step father?

 

If Benning was such a great GM and drafter, where are all our top notch prospects? I'll tell you, he traded them along with most of our picks for players past their prime on bad contracts. The end. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Harold Drunken]

11 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Let’s see where Green lands (FLA?) and see how successful he is.

 

I think it was in large part that Green was a disaster. 

Well, since Florida is much more talented, probably pretty successful.

 

That's like going from a Ford Taurus to a Ferrari. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Harold Drunken]

On 6/19/2022 at 11:37 AM, DrJockitch said:

I think we are thin on quality youth, thin on prospects of any kinds and thin on NHL talent across the board. 

Yeah it's pretty convenient for his argument to leave out the part where we have one of the thinnest, if not THE thinnest prospect pools and pipelines in the entire league. That's what happens when you trade picks for players past their prime in Hail Mary swings to squeak into a last seed playoff spot year after year....but we drafted Pettersson and Hughes in the last 7 years so everything's ok right 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Harold Drunken said:

Yeah it's pretty convenient for his argument to leave out the part where we have one of the thinnest, if not THE thinnest prospect pools and pipeline in the entire league. That's what happens when you trade picks for players past their prime in Hail Mary swings to squeak into a last seed playoff spot year after year....but we drafted Pettersson and Hughes in the last 7 years so everything's ok.

When a club is close to the Cup and going all in to get one (like Gillis did) then it's expected the prospect pool will be small.  Those teams are trading picks and prospects in hopes to win now.  Benning traded his picks and prospects in hopes to build a team that can make the playoffs. That's why we are in the mess now.  Gillis won President's trophies and got to game seven of the Cup final.  His team had two games to win a Cup and were contenders for several years in a row.  Benning was our worst GM ever!  He left such a terrible mess.  

[Harold Drunken]

18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

When a club is close to the Cup and going all in to get one (like Gillis did) then it's expected the prospect pool will be small.  Those teams are trading picks and prospects in hopes to win now.  Benning traded his picks and prospects in hopes to build a team that can make the playoffs. That's why we are in the mess now.  Gillis won President's trophies and got to game seven of the Cup final.  His team had two games to win a Cup and were contenders for several years in a row.  Benning was our worst GM ever!  He left such a terrible mess.  

That's an outstanding point. 

 

People need to realize, you trade picks and prospects for veteran players when you're making a run at the cup.....not trying to squeak into the playoffs. Giliis' teams won back to back Presidents trophies and one game away from a cup win. To compare anything he did to JB is ridiculous, one was insanely successful one was not. 

 

If you're squeaking into the playoffs or on the fringe, you need those picks and prospects to improve your team long term and build around a core. I think a couple years into Rutherford and Allvin running this team, some will finally realize how incompetent the previous regime was. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

That's an outstanding point. 

 

People need to realize, you trade picks and prospects for veteran players when you're making a run at the cup.....not trying to squeak into the playoffs. Giliis' teams won back to back Presidents trophies and was one game away from a cup win. To compare anything he did to JB is ridiculous, one was insanely successful one was not. 

 

If you're squeaking into the playoffs or on the fringe, you need those picks and prospects to improve your team long term and build around a core. I think a couple years into Rutherford and Allvin running this team, some will finally realize how terrible the previous regime was. 

JR even said as much when he got here.  He said we are capped out and aren't even a playoff team.  Benning made a big mess, and it's  going to take more than a couple

off-season's with competent management to clean it up.