(discussion) With stats/facts to back it up, explain where you think our d group ranks.

[Dazzle]

7 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

You added so much of your own theatrics to what I said, I can’t even attempt to reply. 
It’s just too far gone.  
Have a great day! 

In other words, you have no counter and you're just stonewalling again. It's ok. I didn't think your arguments had any substance to begin with.

[Dazzle]

9 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

You added so much of your own theatrics to what I said, I can’t even attempt to reply. 
It’s just too far gone.  
Have a great day! 

https://canucksarmy.com/2022/07/24/honourable-mentions-2022-vancouver-canucks-prospects-list/

 

Jett Woo, RD, 21 years old, 6’0″, 205 lbs

We’ve been on a downward trend with Jett Woo for a year or so now.

Advertisement - Continue Reading Below

 

The good news is that he is still only 21 years old and has a chance to find his footing in the AHL this season under new head coach Jeremy Colliton. Woo battled injuries last season and did show some signs of improvement when it came to his most glaring weaknesses — which were skating and puck-handling.

Jett Woo takes a shot from Bryce Kindopp after the whistle then lets Kindopp know how unacceptable that was#AbbyCanucks #Canucks pic.twitter.com/OtgbKbs1at

— Cody Severtson (@CodySevertson) April 9, 2022

 

There were a handful of games early in the season where Woo was playing some of the best hockey we have ever seen from him but his progress was derailed by COVID and an injury that kept him out of the lineup for seven weeks.

Woo will need to continue to improve on his skating to be able to get to the NHL. His physicality was apparent in his rookie season but he seemed to take a bit of a step back or not necessarily make improvements in his sophomore season as a pro.

We need to see a big year in his third pro season to get him back into the top-10 rankings.

[Dazzle]

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

I can agree Benning was trying to “reset” the team, and avoid doing a proper rebuild.  And during that “reset” he traded away high picks, prospects, and youth for guys further along in their development.  It was a disaster then, and we are in a huge mess now because of his incompetence.   It took Gillis the Great a couple seasons to build his great team.  

I think the new management is forward thinking and will do a great job, just like Gillis.  But it’s going to take time.  

 

What great team? The team he inherited was not upgraded. Despite the emergence of Markstrom and Tanev under Gillis, as well as Horvat, we did not see a replacement for Edler, nor a goaltender in the pipeline (that was traded away for Horvat, who was a high first round pick). Then we saw him throw away Grabner AND a 1st for Ballard, who was later bought out by Gillis himself. Then we two second round picks thrown away for Derek Roy, a discarded defenseman in Connaughton, and complete whiffs with Niklas Jensen, Brendan Gaunce, and the "great" Alexandre Mallet with the second round pick as his first pick that year (he traded away his first).

 

Gillis didn't "build" a good team, contrary to the narrative. He added some pieces to a pre-existing core, but when THAT core became stale, Gillis had no replacement.

He had: a declining Sedins, a disgruntled Kesler, an equally disgruntled and perplexed Luongo, along with Markstrom and Tanev. When he was fired, it was clear that the team was barren with prospects, with exception to maybe Shinkaruk.

Gillis is freaking awful when you actually look at the stuff that he couldn't do, not the playoff stuff that people remember him for.

[Bure2Win]

With stats/facts to back it up, explain where you think our d group ranks.

 

The fact is that it's not near good enough, and i don't get paid what Allvin and Rutherford do to fix it so i have no answers for ya.

[IBatch]

On 7/24/2022 at 2:28 PM, Alflives said:

I can agree Benning was trying to “reset” the team, and avoid doing a proper rebuild.  And during that “reset” he traded away high picks, prospects, and youth for guys further along in their development.  It was a disaster then, and we are in a huge mess now because of his incompetence.   It took Gillis the Great a couple seasons to build his great team.  

I think the new management is forward thinking and will do a great job, just like Gillis.  But it’s going to take time.  

 

Why do you think Gillis the great...had such a great team?   Because of the heavy lifting Burke and Nonis did!   Kudos to him for at least realizing that, and making sure they were locked in until their mid 30's or in Luongo's case until his early 40's.     At least JB built the team we now have.   Only OEL can't be traded.   I'm sure JR and Allvin appreciate that a lot. 

[DSVII]

On 7/24/2022 at 9:15 PM, Dazzle said:

What great team? The team he inherited was not upgraded.

The team that made game 7 of the finals, which included a lot of parts Gillis brought on. There's only two other teams in our franchise history that made that stage and the 2011 was arguably the most dominant one when compared to the peers of the time.

 

The core of Kesler, Burrows, Luongo, Bieksa and the Sedins were in place yes, but Mikhael Samuelsson, Christian Ehrhoff, Chris Higgins, Maxim LaPierre, Dan Hamhuis were definitely upgrades that augmented that core.

 

The Sundin signing was credited with having a big part to play in Hank/Dank and Kes' development. Demitra too can't be ignored. 

 

I think you're also downplaying how he was able to lock down that core before any of them hit free agency.

 

There's a lot of revisionism going on here about how that core was always destined to make the cup finals. It was not that clear cut. Until Gillis' first season, people were questioning whether the Sedins were the core players that would take the next step  and whether they were the guys.

 

The team missed playoffs two of the last three seasons when Gillis took over, which was deemed unacceptable.

 

The bar was much higher back then.

 

 

Quote

Despite the emergence of Markstrom and Tanev under Gillis, as well as Horvat, we did not see a replacement for Edler, nor a goaltender in the pipeline (that was traded away for Horvat, who was a high first round pick).

 

 

Gillis never had a chance to replace Edler, he was fired shortly after trading for Markstrom and Horvat. Edler was also 28 at the time Gillis got fired, so he had no reason to look for a replacement at that point in time.

 

Quote

Then we saw him throw away Grabner AND a 1st for Ballard, who was later bought out by Gillis himself. Then we two second round picks thrown away for Derek Roy, a discarded defenseman in Connaughton, and complete whiffs with Niklas Jensen, Brendan Gaunce, and the "great" Alexandre Mallet with the second round pick as his first pick that year (he traded away his first).

 

 

Yep those were horrible trades. In hindsight, should have just retained Willie Mitchell rather than try and replace him.

 

All the moves post-2012 were puzzling to me I'll give you that, but it was to give the Sedins that one last push in 2013. Afterwards Gillis made what rebuilding moves he could before he got canned, getting Markstrom and Horvat. 

 

The list for your boy Benning, even if I were to break his time here into two separate four year eras, exceeds that in terms of value lost in both trades, picks and whiffs at relative draft positions per four year term. 

 

Quote

Gillis didn't "build" a good team, contrary to the narrative. He added some pieces to a pre-existing core, but when THAT core became stale, Gillis had no replacement.

He was fired before he had a chance to rebuild. We've gone through this before. 

 

Quote

He had: a declining Sedins, a disgruntled Kesler, an equally disgruntled and perplexed Luongo, along with Markstrom and Tanev. When he was fired, it was clear that the team was barren with prospects, with exception to maybe Shinkaruk.

Gillis is freaking awful when you actually look at the stuff that he couldn't do, not the playoff stuff that people remember him for.

• A 100+ point playoff team with tradeable assets. (Sedins aside)
• The 6th overall pick (which became Jake Virtanen)
• A lower ranked prospect pool yes, but still had names like Bo Horvat, Brandon Gaunce, Eddie Lack, Frankie Corrado, Jordan subban Nicklas Jensen and Shinkaruk (*these guys had value at the time that could have been used in a trade)
• A tradeable 2C in Kesler that even with the restricted teams list, had assets available that were much better than Sbisa which Benning ultimately valued above a prospect like Shea Theodore or a push for the 10OA (a pro scouting error)
• Luongo, who ended up returning future #1 Goalie Markstrom. Lu and Marky never were on the roster at the same time.
• Tanev - A 24 year old shutdown RHD

 

Let's not forget, 

 

• The Utica comets farm system - he laid the groundwork with which Benning could control the development of future prospects, something JB ignored and let Cull do his own thing. But Gillis was operating at a developmental handicap with his draft picks being in the hands of the Chicago Wolves and deployment out of his control. 
• ~$12 million in projected cap space excluding the cap savings from trading Kesler. (Promptly filled with a $6 million Ryan Miller and $5 million Vrbata) I bet JR wishes he had this flexibility to work with leftover from Benning.

 

 

Gillis had his warts and his time was up, but he left Benning with a decent start to a rebuild and retool. not the wasteland you're suggesting.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by DSVII

[Dazzle]

16 minutes ago, DSVII said:

The team that made game 7 of the finals, which included a lot of parts Gillis brought on. There's only two other teams in our franchise history that made that stage and the 2011 was arguably the most dominant one when compared to the peers of the time.

 

The core of Kesler, Burrows, Luongo, Bieksa and the Sedins were in place yes, but Mikhael Samuelsson, Christian Ehrhoff, Chris Higgins, Maxim LaPierre, Dan Hamhuis were definitely upgrades that augmented that core.

 

The Sundin signing was credited with having a big part to play in Hank/Dank and Kes' development. Demitra too can't be ignored. 

 

I think you're also downplaying how he was able to lock down that core before any of them hit free agency.

 

There's a lot of revisionism going on here about how that core was always destined to make the cup finals. It was not that clear cut. Until Gillis' first season, people were questioning whether the Sedins were the core players that would take the next step  and whether they were the guys.

 

The team missed playoffs two of the last three seasons when Gillis took over, which was deemed unacceptable.

 

The bar was much higher back then.

 

 

Gillis never had a chance to replace Edler, he was fired shortly after trading for Markstrom and Horvat. Edler was also 28 at the time Gillis got fired, so he had no reason to look for a replacement at that point in time.

 

Yep those were horrible trades. In hindsight, should have just retained Willie Mitchell rather than try and replace him.

 

All the moves post-2012 were puzzling to me I'll give you that, but it was to give the Sedins that one last push in 2013. Afterwards Gillis made what rebuilding moves he could before he got canned, getting Markstrom and Horvat. 

 

The list for your boy Benning, even if I were to break his time here into two separate four year eras, exceeds that in terms of value lost in both trades, picks and whiffs at relative draft positions per four year term. 

 

He was fired before he had a chance to rebuild. We've gone through this before. 

 

• A 100+ point playoff team with tradeable assets. (Sedins aside)
• The 6th overall pick (which became Jake Virtanen)
• A lower ranked prospect pool yes, but still had names like Bo Horvat, Brandon Gaunce, Eddie Lack, Frankie Corrado, Jordan subban Nicklas Jensen and Shinkaruk (*these guys had value at the time that could have been used in a trade)
• A tradeable 2C in Kesler that even with the restricted teams list, had assets available that were much better than Sbisa which Benning ultimately valued above a prospect like Shea Theodore or a push for the 10OA (a pro scouting error)
• Luongo, who ended up returning future #1 Goalie Markstrom. Lu and Marky never were on the roster at the same time.
• Tanev - A 24 year old shutdown RHD

 

Let's not forget, 

 

• The Utica comets farm system - he laid the groundwork with which Benning could control the development of future prospects, something JB ignored and let Cull do his own thing. But Gillis was operating at a developmental handicap with his draft picks being in the hands of the Chicago Wolves and deployment out of his control. 
• ~$12 million in projected cap space excluding the cap savings from trading Kesler. (Promptly filled with a $6 million Ryan Miller and $5 million Vrbata) I bet JR wishes he had this flexibility to work with leftover from Benning.

 

 

Gillis had his warts and his time was up, but he left Benning with a decent start to a rebuild and retool. not the wasteland you're suggesting.

 

 

 

 

Puhleeze. Edler was from the NONIS period. Good god, he was the oldest piece from the roster before anyone, so what kind of revisionism are YOU talking about? He missed every single draft pick, minus the several ones I already listed. That in itself is a BIG failure, one which you've seemed to downplay. Instead, the so-called development issue which you've reasonably criticized is not really mentioned at all with Gillis. Gillis did start with a farm team, but he didn't really fill any of those teams with developing prospects (because he flubbed a lot of them).

 

You give far too much credit to the playoff successes that I already mentioned. His CORE was from other people. Sure he lucked out with Samuelsson, etc etc, among other players, but when it came down to Gillis having to make his own core (i.e. through the draft picks/prospects that HE picked), you can see how bad he really was.

 

You're giving credit to Gillis for the heavy work that other GMs did. When Gillis was fired, the team was honestly the worst state it had ever been in for a long, long time. No young prospects whatsoever, and a bunch of players that neither move the needle on the roster. I remember the Willie D period. Yes, those rosters were trash.

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Puhleeze. Edler was from the NONIS period. Good god, he was the oldest piece from the roster before anyone, so what kind of revisionism are YOU talking about? He missed every single draft pick, minus the several ones I already listed. That in itself is a BIG failure, one which you've seemed to downplay. Instead, the so-called development issue which you've reasonably criticized is not really mentioned at all with Gillis. Gillis did start with a farm team, but he didn't really fill any of those teams with developing prospects (because he flubbed a lot of them).

 

You give far too much credit to the playoff successes that I already mentioned. His CORE was from other people. Sure he lucked out with Samuelsson, etc etc, among other players, but when it came down to Gillis having to make his own core (i.e. through the draft picks/prospects that HE picked), you can see how bad he really was.

 

You're giving credit to Gillis for the heavy work that other GMs did. When Gillis was fired, the team was honestly the worst state it had ever been in for a long, long time. No young prospects whatsoever, and a bunch of players that neither move the needle on the roster. I remember the Willie D period. Yes, those rosters were trash.

Sorry, but it’s fact Gillis built our most successful teams.  That’s why the Benning era is so bad.  We went from the high of Gillis, to the low of Benning.  It was sweet and then sour.  The dramatic difference of Gillis success and Benning failure is extreme.

The new management is clearly very forward thinking and collaborative.  They have put people into positions, and then encourage those people to voice their opinions.  Benning was a “my way is the best way” manager.  

At this recent draft we saw the video of our scouts all collaborating to generate their draft list.  Allvin even said it was quiet at first but with encouragement (to speak their opinions) the scouts started talking.  Clearly scouts knew their opinions weren’t going to be heard, and only attacked by Benning for voicing one’s that differed from what he wanted to hear, so they learned to “sit on their hands” and only agree with what Benning said.

Benning did an incredible amount of damage to our club, that reached far beyond just the players.  

[Alflives]

39 minutes ago, DSVII said:

The team that made game 7 of the finals, which included a lot of parts Gillis brought on. There's only two other teams in our franchise history that made that stage and the 2011 was arguably the most dominant one when compared to the peers of the time.

 

The core of Kesler, Burrows, Luongo, Bieksa and the Sedins were in place yes, but Mikhael Samuelsson, Christian Ehrhoff, Chris Higgins, Maxim LaPierre, Dan Hamhuis were definitely upgrades that augmented that core.

 

The Sundin signing was credited with having a big part to play in Hank/Dank and Kes' development. Demitra too can't be ignored. 

 

I think you're also downplaying how he was able to lock down that core before any of them hit free agency.

 

There's a lot of revisionism going on here about how that core was always destined to make the cup finals. It was not that clear cut. Until Gillis' first season, people were questioning whether the Sedins were the core players that would take the next step  and whether they were the guys.

 

The team missed playoffs two of the last three seasons when Gillis took over, which was deemed unacceptable.

 

The bar was much higher back then.

 

 

Gillis never had a chance to replace Edler, he was fired shortly after trading for Markstrom and Horvat. Edler was also 28 at the time Gillis got fired, so he had no reason to look for a replacement at that point in time.

 

Yep those were horrible trades. In hindsight, should have just retained Willie Mitchell rather than try and replace him.

 

All the moves post-2012 were puzzling to me I'll give you that, but it was to give the Sedins that one last push in 2013. Afterwards Gillis made what rebuilding moves he could before he got canned, getting Markstrom and Horvat. 

 

The list for your boy Benning, even if I were to break his time here into two separate four year eras, exceeds that in terms of value lost in both trades, picks and whiffs at relative draft positions per four year term. 

 

He was fired before he had a chance to rebuild. We've gone through this before. 

 

• A 100+ point playoff team with tradeable assets. (Sedins aside)
• The 6th overall pick (which became Jake Virtanen)
• A lower ranked prospect pool yes, but still had names like Bo Horvat, Brandon Gaunce, Eddie Lack, Frankie Corrado, Jordan subban Nicklas Jensen and Shinkaruk (*these guys had value at the time that could have been used in a trade)
• A tradeable 2C in Kesler that even with the restricted teams list, had assets available that were much better than Sbisa which Benning ultimately valued above a prospect like Shea Theodore or a push for the 10OA (a pro scouting error)
• Luongo, who ended up returning future #1 Goalie Markstrom. Lu and Marky never were on the roster at the same time.
• Tanev - A 24 year old shutdown RHD

 

Let's not forget, 

 

• The Utica comets farm system - he laid the groundwork with which Benning could control the development of future prospects, something JB ignored and let Cull do his own thing. But Gillis was operating at a developmental handicap with his draft picks being in the hands of the Chicago Wolves and deployment out of his control. 
• ~$12 million in projected cap space excluding the cap savings from trading Kesler. (Promptly filled with a $6 million Ryan Miller and $5 million Vrbata) I bet JR wishes he had this flexibility to work with leftover from Benning.

 

 

Gillis had his warts and his time was up, but he left Benning with a decent start to a rebuild and retool. not the wasteland you're suggesting.

 

 

 

 

This is beyond good.  Excellent breakdown of how we went from the great Gillis teams to the mistake that was Benning.

If we were to choose which guy to go fishing with it’s for sure Benning.  He seems like a good guy.  Gillis, not so much.  But as GM’s it’s sweet (Gillis) and sour (Benning).  Some fans prefer sour.  That’s fine, but strange. 

[JM_]

Why are we going over Gillis again? 

[DSVII]

56 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Puhleeze. Edler was from the NONIS period. Good god, he was the oldest piece from the roster before anyone, so what kind of revisionism are YOU talking about?

You're giving Gillis grief for not finding a replacement for Edler when he was in his prime (28). That is not a reasonable assessment and you know it. Otherwise you should blame Benning for not drafting OEL and Myer's replacements the moment they were signed and traded for (30). 

 

And Markstrom and Tanev were a Gillis pieces. You know, the shutodwn D and goalie that was propping up his teams that ranked consistently in the low 20s in high danger chances against.

 

Why are you spending so much time and energy defending a GM whose time here directly benefited every other team in our division but us I'll never know.

 

Quote

He missed every single draft pick, minus the several ones I already listed. That in itself is a BIG failure, one which you've seemed to downplay. Instead, the so-called development issue which you've reasonably criticized is not really mentioned at all with Gillis. Gillis did start with a farm team, but he didn't really fill any of those teams with developing prospects (because he flubbed a lot of them).

Just Bo Horvat is all i need to counter that ridiculous statement. And Benning hasn't been filling the farm team either....name a prospect in the last eight years outside of Demko who is going to graduate to the main team. Rathbone, that's it.

 

You know what's a bigger failure? Whiffing on two picks in the top 10, especially a 5th overall.

 

In the spirit of the thread, let's use stats to quantify this shall we?

 

Gillis made an error at 29th with Jensen that is 151.85 in trade value.

Benning made an error at 5th overall with Juolevi that is 484 or 3x that value in terms of what could have been in a trade. 

 

Or to put it simply, one mistake in the draft at the 5th overall spot is the equivalent of missing three picks at the 29th spot.

 

Let's not forget he messed up at 6th overall too

 

A Gillis draft miss mathematically does not have the same weight as a Benning draft miss because Benning was always drafting in the top part of the round during his time here

 

I'll repeat this to you.

 

A Gillis draft miss mathematically does not have the same weight as a Benning draft miss because Benning was always drafting in the top part of the round during his time here.

 

Benning has lost a way more value at the draft than Gillis from his whiffs.

 

https://soundofhockey.com/2022/06/06/examining-the-value-of-nhl-draft-picks/

 

 

This chart too correlates with performance (Game Score Value Added). Players you hit at the beginning of the draft do return more production.

 

Of course, let's look at the actual results with hindsight rather than projected values. To illustrate the lost value over time.

 

From the 2016 5th round pick alone

 

Juolevi returned Lammiko which returned nothing.

Tkachuk returned Jonathan Hubredeau, Mackenzie Weegar, a 2023 1st, and a prospect.

 

We missed out on a lot more that three times Juolevi's value unfortunately.

 

Quote

 

You give far too much credit to the playoff successes that I already mentioned. His CORE was from other people. Sure he lucked out with Samuelsson, etc etc, among other players, but when it came down to Gillis having to make his own core (i.e. through the draft picks/prospects that HE picked), you can see how bad he really was.

 

And you're down playing this substantially. Samuelsson scored 30 goals for us, which you would have lauded Benning for with Vrbata (good signing), was he a lucky whiff then? 

 

Quote

Sure he lucked out

really now....

Quote

Mikhael Samuelsson, Christian Ehrhoff, Chris Higgins, Maxim LaPierre, Dan Hamhuis, Mats Sundin, Pavol Demitra

I honestly wished Benning was lucky enough to have a list of names to match this. 

 

You're also crediting Benning with stepping up to a podium with high draft picks, when I could literally hand you a hockey prospects magazine with rankings and guaranteed you'd be walking back with at least Nylander, Hughes and Tkachuk.

 

The other part is assembling the team with a supporting case, which Benning has failed at time and time again. He's had some hits for, but his misses are pretty egregious. (Beagle, Player Name, Roussel, Sbisa, Gudbranson, Poolman, Holtby, Dickinson)

 

Quote

You're giving credit to Gillis for the heavy work that other GMs did. When Gillis was fired, the team was honestly the worst state it had ever been in for a long, long time. No young prospects whatsoever, and a bunch of players that neither move the needle on the roster. I remember the Willie D period. Yes, those rosters were trash.

That roster still made playoffs in 2015 and scored over 100 points. 

 

How does that speak to Benning's job performance when he hasn't assembled a team since that time 7 years ago that has outperformed Willie D and that 'trash' 2015 roster?

 

Lastly, let's look at the state of the teams shall we at those points in time

 

Benning inherited a prospect pool that was ranked 24th and a 'trash' team power ranked in the top 10 to start the season agreed on by the industry 

 

Rutherford inherited a prospect pool that was ranked 27th and a team power ranked 21st to start the season 

 

Again, Benning did not leave Rutherford with an easy situation either. In fact, his roster has just as many question marks as the 2015 Canucks, is less proven in the regular season and playoffs and has less cap flexibiilty.

Edited July 26, 2022 by DSVII

[DSVII]

5 minutes ago, JM_ said:

Why are we going over Gillis again? 

Haha sorry @JM_ but can't let that slander against the 2011 team and the front office that took us there go unchallenged. I'll find some more defense stats to post later on :p 

Edited July 26, 2022 by DSVII

[JM_]

1 minute ago, DSVII said:

Haha sorry @JM_ but can't let that slander against the 2011 team and the front office that took us there go unchallenged.

it's all good. That draft pick value table is neat, I haven't seen that before. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

All this Gillis vs Benning stuff is pointless. *BOTH* had their real flaws that led to their demise.  There should be no disputing that.

 

As the thread topic, our blueline.....

 

Our D when Benning was first hired

 

Jason Garrison......29 years old (dealt for a 2nd round pick before the season started)

Dan Hamhuis........29 years old

Edler.....................28 years old

Tanev....................24 years old

Bieksa..................31 years old

Weber...................25 years old

Hutton...................21 years old

 

Our D today:

Hughes.................21 years old

OEL......................31 years old

Myers...................31 years old

Schenn.................31 years old

Poolman (lol)........28 years old

Rathbone..............22 years old

 

Funny how our aging blueline when Benning was hired (and yes, it was an aging roster no question), isn't THAT significantly different than the current blueline (a team that was supposed to be rebuilding).

 

edit:  I did this quickly, I might've missed a player or two.

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Alflives]

18 minutes ago, Muttley said:

No he didn't Pat Quinn did. 

Love Pat Quinn, but two Presidents’ trophies (and game 7 Cup Final) while being a serious Cup contender for several seasons says Gillis was the most successful.  

And then came Benning. 

[DSVII]

@Dazzle I'll just end off with an olive branch here, I know I'm coming across as very standoffish here and "Gillis was god, Boo Benning" here and all that. But it's not that. And it's not the kind of fan I want to be. We both cheer for the same team and granted we have different visions of what this team should be and how it gets there.

 

I'm just tired of seeing the team I love getting torn apart slowly. And that was what it felt like the last 8 years. 

 

I've had friends start families, begin and finish doctorates and M.Ds in the time it took for this era to be over. With nothing to show for it but a bubble playoff appearance, bottom-ranked performances and empty promises and emptier prospect pool. 

 

Believe it or not, I was a Benning supporter. I liked his signings for Miller/Vrbata. They were perfect for that team and locker room at the time, and set us up well for a rebuild in 2016 that never happened. I was actually okay with Sbisa because to me, the fundamental strategy would be the same, give the Sedins one last run and then rebuild. Never trade a 1st rounder and build up the pool.

 

Then we let Hamhuis and Vrbata walk for nothing. We fired Gilman and we fired longtime trainer Mike Burnstein (I still believe this directly influenced Tanev's injury history.) to bring in a hack like Celebrini (who went on to contribute to the Golden State Warrior's injury plagued loss to the Raptors in the 2019 finals). It's not one big thing, but a slow accumulation of small mistakes and mismanagement that sapped my optimism.

 

Celebrini's time as the physio trainer and Chris Tanev's games played.

 

We were once the team that led the league in innovation, in using stats and analytics to scout players and sleep doctors and the like to get the best out of our players. Today, the best teams in the league are being built copying the 2011 Canucks blueprint and are succeeding while we were regressing back to the 2000s with a GM that seemed stuck in the past, valuing players on what they were years ago. It's just frustrating to see.

 

2020 was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

 

There is no way an NHL level executive should come up with the excuse 'we ran out of time', and even this season in 2022 during the media interview Benning admitted he did not know what was going on and why the team was doing so poorly under Green. That is unacceptable and really highlighted he shouldn't have been given this offseason to make the trades he did.

 

I really wanted Benning to succeed. Believe me. If we could search up my posts in 2014 I defended the Bonino/Sbisa trade. I was even throwing my preference for a long term strategy out the window this past offseason for just a glimmer of playoffs to cheer.

 

But everything he did here since his first season flied in the face of how assets are accumulated and valued in the NHL that I've seen during my time as a fan. Granted I'm no expert, but it was just disheartening to see.

 

And the reason why I push back so hard against these posts is that I just never want to see this kind of thinking and methodology that led to the last 8 years ever touch this team again. Let's look no further than the 2023 Flyers with Torts to see where that takes us. 

 

Anyways, won't take up this thread on defensemen any longer with the Gillis stuff. I look forward to when this offseason ends so we can get back to cheering the team back on the ice!

 

I'll see if I can throw together some thoughts on the D pairings later for this topic! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by DSVII

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Love Pat Quinn, but two Presidents’ trophies (and game 7 Cup Final) while being a serious Cup contender for several seasons says Gillis was the most successful.  

And then came Benning. 

Quinn built the team from pretty much nothing. Gillis got gifted a contender from qualified management and then destroyed the franchise with his gross incompetence.  He was easily the worst GM in the history of the franchise and unfit for any job involving player evaluation.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

7 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Quinn built the team from pretty much nothing. Gillis got gifted a contender from qualified management and then destroyed the franchise with his gross incompetence.  He was easily the worst GM in the history of the franchise and unfit for any job involving player evaluation.

Jim Benning hiring of "Dumb & Dumber" for our head coaches makes him fight for that spot imho.  EP was looking like a ghost of his Calder self.  And he was hardly the only "Calder candidate" that looked like **** under these minor league head coaches.  You can draft all the home runs you want but most (Hughes seems to be the exception) need good coaching.  Took all of less than 30 days for an old man like JR to *FINALLY* hire a legit NHL head coach (something Jim Benning was given 7 years to do & got us "Dumb & Dumber").  Look at the difference in EP from under Travis "The Blender" Green & Coach "They still call me Bruce"!

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Jim Benning hiring of "Dumb & Dumber" for our head coaches makes him fight for that spot imho.  EP was looking like a ghost of his Calder self.  And he was hardly the only "Calder candidate" that looked like **** under these minor league head coaches.  You can draft all the home runs you want but most (Hughes seems to be the exception) need good coaching.  Took all of less than 30 days for an old man like JR to *FINALLY* hire a legit NHL head coach (something Jim Benning was given 7 years to do & got us "Dumb & Dumber").  Look at the difference in EP from under Travis "The Blender" Green & Coach "They still call me Bruce"!

Benning definitely earned some of the blame for allowing a locker room cancer to coach the team.

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

15 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Quinn built the team from pretty much nothing. Gillis got gifted a contender from qualified management and then destroyed the franchise with his gross incompetence.  He was easily the worst GM in the history of the franchise and unfit for any job involving player evaluation.

...and yet, he got GM of the year in 2010-11.