[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Washington Capitals | Oct. 17, 2022

[Darius]

1 minute ago, lmm said:

I enjoy this misery, otherwise I'd do something else

either that or I am addicted

that might also be true

 

but I voiced my disbelief early on Benning and received many a wonkieface emoji and snarky response

I have been trolled by some of CDCs finest

I have been called a Leafs fan and an Oiler fan on many occasions and even called a Wild fan once

I have resorted to blocking some dazzling posters to stop from being harassed on a daily basis because I did not understand the brilliance of the Jim Benning way

I have been told to choose another team

 

but later this season will mark 50 years of following and rooting for this hot mess called the Vancouver Canucks

I once believed that Bobby Lalonde was the second coming of Yvan Cournoyer and Dale Talon was the next Bobby Orr

but alas, I was wrong

To his credit, Dale Talon is only 1 Cup behind Bobby Orr

 

Do I have a crappy attitude? Yes I do

Do I deserve less misery than the average Canuck fan? No, I deserve as much as the rest of us

But I will say that I enjoy the irony when those posters who are particularly vehement and rude to me and others about our insights and beliefs, change their opinions and suddenly lose faith

those people deserve more misery than me

 

and just to be clear, I find my own passion for this foolishness ironic and unexplainable

For what is worth, believe it or not, I found some of your counter points and perspectives interesting throughout the Benning years. 

 

Personally..i liked some things he did and didn’t like some things.  We can rehash the stuff but at this point it’s like beating a dead horse.

 

maybe the sample size is too small this year too warrant this panic.  The sequence of events that have led to three blown leads in the third period have some element of bad luck that are hard to repeat- hence the record they set. 
 

but I won’t lie.. on nights like this I regret turning the channel to the Chicago vs Canucks game in 1982 playoffs , where I really got hooked .. sure i watched here and there before that, but that run hooked me in. Ever since then there’s been lots of disappointment to say the least.  So I get your point about wallowing in the misery! 

[Sharpshooter]

12 minutes ago, Darius said:

For what is worth, believe it or not, I found some of your counter points and perspectives interesting throughout the Benning years. 

 

Personally..i liked some things he did and didn’t like some things.  We can rehash the stuff but at this point it’s like beating a dead horse.

 

maybe the sample size is too small this year too warrant this panic.  The sequence of events that have led to three blown leads in the third period have some element of bad luck that are hard to repeat- hence the record they set. 
 

but I won’t lie.. on nights like this I regret turning the channel to the Chicago vs Canucks game in 1982 playoffs , where I really got hooked .. sure i watched here and there before that, but that run hooked me in. Ever since then there’s been lots of disappointment to say the least.  So I get your point about wallowing in the misery! 

See boys. 
 

This is what’s is all about. 
 

Understanding others. 
 

We may not agree with people, but we listen, think and then give our thoughts. 

I can’t give a shit about your opinion and you don’t give a shit about mine or others, but at least here on CDC, we just respect and say whatever we think. 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Sharpshooter

[Hockey God]

1 hour ago, McBackup said:

There is a core. It's the main group of players you build around. The kind of players where their departure represents a dramatic shakeup for the team. If Tanner Pearson or Travis Dermott or Spencer Martin are switched out it doesn't represent a significant change to the structure of the team. You move Hughes, Pettersson or Demko for example, its a massive shakeup.

On this team, moving Demko would make the score worse, but the results would be the same.  Same story for Hughes and Pettersson.  To me, core guys would be unmovable simply because they are the heart and soul of the team.  You think "_____", that guy or those guys pop up in your mind for that team.  Individuals can be fun to watch, but they are not core players who bleed and die for their teams.  Good example would be Bure and Linden.  Bure was a gifted speedster with hockey skills, a joy to watch when he did his thing, but the Canucks of that era won more often that not because of the hard work a core player like Linden did both behind the scenes and on the ice. Oates and Hull are another good example.  Hull was an elite scorer and a showman to boot, but Oates was like a playing coach on the ice, and it was no surprise he coached after his playing days were over.   Hell, Dale Hunter was a horrible player in many ways personality wise, but no one could deny he did everything he could to help his teams to win, in any way he could.  The list goes on and on through hockey history.  Ep, Bo, Brock, Hughes and Miller can score and put on a show at times, but who steps up when some intestinal fortitude is need?  At this point, no one outside of Schenn, and that means there are no core players on this team, just individuals.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Hockey God said:

 Ep, Bo, Brock, Hughes and Miller can score and put on a show at times, but who steps up when some intestinal fortitude is need?  At this point, no one outside of Schenn, and that means there are no core players on this team, just individuals.  

Honestly, I would put Pearson and OEL right there next to Schenn.  The rest of the guys are either too young or just don't have it.  I'll post this again...  

 

[Sharpshooter]

7 minutes ago, Hockey God said:

On this team, moving Demko would make the score worse, but the results would be the same.  Same story for Hughes and Pettersson.  To me, core guys would be unmovable simply because they are the heart and soul of the team.  You think "_____", that guy or those guys pop up in your mind for that team.  Individuals can be fun to watch, but they are not core players who bleed and die for their teams.  Good example would be Bure and Linden.  Bure was a gifted speedster with hockey skills, a joy to watch when he did his thing, but the Canucks of that era won more often that not because of the hard work a core player like Linden did both behind the scenes and on the ice. Oates and Hull are another good example.  Hull was an elite scorer and a showman to boot, but Oates was like a playing coach on the ice, and it was no surprise he coached after his playing days were over.   Hell, Dale Hunter was a horrible player in many ways personality wise, but no one could deny he did everything he could to help his teams to win, in any way he could.  The list goes on and on through hockey history.  Ep, Bo, Brock, Hughes and Miller can score and put on a show at times, but who steps up when some intestinal fortitude is need?  At this point, no one outside of Schenn, and that means there are no core players on this team, just individuals.  

Did you expect the Brett Hull and Adam Oates crowd to chime in?

Many of these boys and girls were kids, not even born nor a twinkle in their daddy’s ballsack. 

 

Two of the best tandems ever. 

 

Love the reference though. 
 

That was a different NHL. 
 

The good ol’ days. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Sharpshooter

[Hockey God]

2 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Honestly, I would put Pearson and OEL right there next to Schenn.  The rest of the guys are either too young or just don't have it.  I'll post this again...  

 

I could agree about OEL, but I try to put him out of mind with that contract.  Young OEL, though, definitely.  Pearson ... got to have an effect on the game to be a core player, and unless core = negative or nil effect, I don't see him as core.  

[Hockey God]

3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Did you expect the Brett Hull and Adam Oates crowd to chime in?

 

Two of the best tandems ever. 

 

Love the reference though. 
 

That was a different NHL. 
 

The good ol’ days. 

I just chose one Canucks duo and one NHL-wide duo at random, but to be honest, Trottier and Bossy (to me in my younger hockey-watching days in the late 70s/early 80s) might have been the best pure example of heart and soul and talent together as a package, with Gillies picking up the slack as and when needed.  Trio Grande!

[BC_Hawk]

33 minutes ago, Darius said:

For what is worth, believe it or not, I found some of your counter points and perspectives interesting throughout the Benning years. 

 

Personally..i liked some things he did and didn’t like some things.  We can rehash the stuff but at this point it’s like beating a dead horse.

 

maybe the sample size is too small this year too warrant this panic.  The sequence of events that have led to three blown leads in the third period have some element of bad luck that are hard to repeat- hence the record they set. 
 

but I won’t lie.. on nights like this I regret turning the channel to the Chicago vs Canucks game in 1982 playoffs , where I really got hooked .. sure i watched here and there before that, but that run hooked me in. Ever since then there’s been lots of disappointment to say the least.  So I get your point about wallowing in the misery! 

Yep…it’s all about perspective. It’s 3 games; not hard to recover IF they win a couple and get rolling. All the pieces are there on offense and goal tending to be a very good team.

 

unfortunately, the Defense is a different beast. We have 3 x Top4 players (OEL, Hughes, Myers), 1x 5/6players ( Schenn), and a whole shwack of 7/8 guys. Burroughs, poolman and Stillman have looked decent, but all are not full game solutions in any spot better than the 5spot. Compound that with Myers injury, and were/are doomed. 
 

JR and Allvin said rebuilding the D was essential this offseason. They have done nothing except waste a 3rd on a guy that the leafs would have waived because he was paid too much and trade for a good 3rd pairing dman with edge in a cap saving trade. F all!! People can defend the FO all they want, but they royally failed us in this regard this year.
 

At least JB recognized the hole, and resigned Hamonic to play top4, and went and got Poolman for the 3rd pair (overpaid though). Unfortunately, Hamonic didn’t trust science and screwed the team, and Poolman developed migraines. Only savings grace; his 7th Dman depth signing shined (Schenn).

 

So, if the team wants to be better than last year, they need to go get a legit RHD top pair Dman. Myers will be fine/great on the 2nd with OEL in a couple weeks. At that point, the D will be a strength in my opinion.

Edited October 18, 2022 by BC_Hawk

[lmm]

34 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

We weren’t ‘duped’ bud. 
 

I remember the boys from 2014. 
 

I was a kid when we had Tanti and Smyl. 
 

I remember the REAL bad days. The 80’s when I was 5 years plus were the worst ever. As a little kiddie I would sit in front of the piece of crap teevee on Saturday to see the team lose, while on my dad’s big belly. 
 

We watched them together on the Chesterfield, that’s what he called a couch back in the olden times. 
 

He still watched us getting blown out and then watch the playoff and the best team win. We got screwed by the Flames and Oilers a lot. 
 

I remember those dark ass days. They sucked. 
 

Our team isn’t that bad yet. This team is 3 games into this slide.

 

I stayed a Nucks Supporter since then. 
 

Can you say you support them more than me ? If not, then try. 
 

 

I didn't mean to hi-jack this into a nostalgia thread

 

I don't "support" this team

and if you have read my previous posts, you  will know that I do not subscribe to the concept of being a "true fan" or a better fan than anyone else

I find fandom idiotic even though I must call myself a Canuck fan

I watch this team

I root for this team

I dissect it

and I create theories as to why it fails repeatedly

I argue about this team

 

You may keep your crown as the better supporter

I will not try to unseat you

[Darius]

I’m enjoying this old timer after hours version of cdc.. the yung uns might call it boomer hour or something .. 

[iinatcc]

50 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Attach yourself. Nothing wrong about that. 
 

This is ‘our’ team. 
 

There’s people that have generations of their families attached to their team, and they never wavered. Their support only became stronger. 
 

Supporting a team isn’t year to year. 
 

It’s a lifelong process. It’s saying “this is my team through thick and shit and glory”

 

We’re there for all of it. 
 

‘We’ make the team. The team will come and go as players, but it’s us that make the team survive. 
 

Never forget that. Never forget that our support drives this car. 

I didn't say stop supporting but getting too emotionally attached or invested to the team sometimes is not worth it.

I will still follow the team but I am just not going to care too much if the team does good or bad. 

I guess someone I know personally said it best. If the players don't care, then why should I ? 

Edited October 18, 2022 by iinatcc

[lmm]

42 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Well, this is what happens when you're hamstrung with cap. And spend what little cap on forwards instead of d-men. BUT, I am an realist optimist until we are mathematically eliminated. Hopefully the addition of Mikhayev will do some good. I don't like the injury excuse. But we got a lot of young guys that don't give a damn about defense. And our PK is actually a joke. Mikhayev can hopefully help out with both. We are scoring goals just fine so we don't need him scoring out the gate, the problem is we aren't defending our leads at all and him playing sound defense is mostly effort. So it's not like he needs a ton of game time to get in the flow of sound defense.

 

We desperately need two way forwards and legit stay at home d-men. Not players like Juulsen, or Burroughs, or Dermott or Stillman or some other plug. No disrespect to them. But all of them are depth guys at best. Which says something about our team when we are actively playing any 3 of them at the same time.

yes, but if you look at the stats page

it is Miller, Boeser, Horvat, Pearson, OEL and Hughes that are leading the minus parade.

in fact, as of today, Noah Juulsen is the only - player not listed above

So, Burroughs, Stillman, Poolman, Aman, Joshua, even Hoglander and Podkolzin are not costing us games

Lazar might be because he and Miller keep getting scored on, on the PK, but I think they are mostly out there with Hughes, who is sucking at defense this year 

I don't even think Aman and Joshua have been scored on this year

there is a lot of bad neutral zone/ offensive blue line passing that is causing odd man rushes

 

what it really comes down to is, our best players are not better than McD and Drai or Ovie or sadly Kevin Hayes, Konecney, DeAngelo and Laughton

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, McBackup said:

You can't just "blow up" a team that has OEL on the books for 6 years, Miller for 9, Garland and Mikheyev for 4, etc.

 

The worst part of all this is we are wasting a vezina calibre goalie on a great cap hit.

Well...Miller doesn't have a trade clause until next season.   OEL, yes we are stuck with him.    The other guys ... Garland for sure some team would be interested in.   Ilya M... doubt it (for now). 

 

And how is Demko a Vezina caliber goalie when he hasn't done anything yet to get that moniker?   We can always trade Demko.   No trade protection.   In fact IF we did a COL style "re-set", Demko is the guy to trade first.    There isn't as big a gap between Demko and a dozen or so Kuemper's/Andersson's etc that float around the league as some might think.    Vasilevsky, Markstrom, Hellebucyk etc have been doing it for more then one year lol...Marskstrom barely deserves to be in that conversation ... TB has had some terrible games, Vasilevsky wins for them anyways.    Same thing with that NYR newbie.   Yes Demko is trending that way.. as in he's a legit number one... there are only 10-11 at one given time...but one year and three playoff games isn't exactly enough to label him much more then that so far.   Vezina caliber goalies teams don't miss the playoffs, doesn't matter how bad their teams are. 

[R3aL]

25 minutes ago, lmm said:

I didn't mean to hi-jack this into a nostalgia thread

 

I don't "support" this team

and if you have read my previous posts, you  will know that I do not subscribe to the concept of being a "true fan" or a better fan than anyone else

I find fandom idiotic even though I must call myself a Canuck fan

I watch this team

I root for this team

I dissect it

and I create theories as to why it fails repeatedly

I argue about this team

 

You may keep your crown as the better supporter

I will not try to unseat you

No no IM THE BIGGEST FAN measure my FANDOM you’ll see

[lmm]

Just now, R3aL said:

No no IM THE BIGGEST FAN measure my FANDOM you’ll see

9.5 inches of fandom

well I'll be

you win

[IBatch]

42 minutes ago, Hockey God said:

I just chose one Canucks duo and one NHL-wide duo at random, but to be honest, Trottier and Bossy (to me in my younger hockey-watching days in the late 70s/early 80s) might have been the best pure example of heart and soul and talent together as a package, with Gillies picking up the slack as and when needed.  Trio Grande!

That was something.   Tough to beat Gretzky-Kurri though.   Bossy-Trottier  looks and was great until, until you take Grektzy ? Kurri first ten years and compare...it's like that but on steroids..imagine two guys scoring 140-160 goals for you lol...nutso, and plus 45-50 or whatever they were .    Even Lemuiex/Stevens or whomever couldn't come close to touching that.    Gretzky's first ten years he averaged close to a goal a game.   And never feasted on the PP because he was the puck distributor, just EV and short handed.   Trottier sure had guts..that whole NYI team was loaded with two-way toughness plus a killer top line ...  Kind of fitting it took Gretzky and co to dethrone that, and they hadn't just played 19 consecutive series ... a record that won't ever be beaten with 32 teams and a cap.  

 

Know we can get attached to our players,  closest thing we could come up with was a few games with Bure and Mogilny on the same PP unit lol.   Sorry Sedins.   Gretzky on his own had ten better seasons then the Sedins ten best seasons combined. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by IBatch

[ShawnAntoski]

Roster is stale and it is time to sell - imo.  This is looking like the years, after the 2011 cup run and with hindsight, a retool was the wrong choice, despite the Sedins' productivity.  Anyways, I am just not expecting alot from the same JB & Aquman roster and the new FO, is STILL capped out with a weak prospect pool - so not alot of options, right now.  

[IBatch]

28 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

I didn't say stop supporting but getting too emotionally attached or invested to the team sometimes is not worth it.

I will still follow the team but I am just not going to care too much if the team does good or bad. 

I guess someone I know personally said it best. If the players don't care, then why should I ? 

Of course the players care.   Well most of them, i'm sure none of them enjoy losing.   It's also on the GM to ice the right combo of players.   Anyone who's ever played on a team sport knows some guys grind it out with lesser skill but willingness to do whatever it takes, then the star players on that team, but doesn't mean any of those guys enjoy or want to lose.    Funny zero wins since Myers hasn't played.   And that's with Burroughs actually doing an admirable job ...  

 

Blowing 3 leads.   It's not the end of the world (yet!).   Nobody should be looking over the cliff ... that's taking things a bit far, but there's nothing wrong with being emotionally invested either.    The highs are that much higher.    The longer you've been a fan, the more abuse the relationship has provided, eventually you can laugh at things like setting a league record (if that's even a thing lol...records for everything now, makes sense because the everyone needs a ribbon crowd is now in positions of power) ... it's not great.   But let's keep an even keel.   Would it be more fun if we won a game lost a game won a game lost two then one 3, in a full loop and made the playoffs?   Or lost 3 then won 5?   Or lost 6 then won 8?   Doesn't matter how we get there as long as we do.    A players only meeting was a good call.   Blowing 3rd periods .... yikes!   And the team shouldn't be this bad with just two roster players out. 

[Sharpshooter]

56 minutes ago, Hockey God said:

I just chose one Canucks duo and one NHL-wide duo at random, but to be honest, Trottier and Bossy (to me in my younger hockey-watching days in the late 70s/early 80s) might have been the best pure example of heart and soul and talent together as a package, with Gillies picking up the slack as and when needed.  Trio Grande!

Fair point. 
 

if you wanted the best duo ever( in my time) would have to be Gretzky/Messier and Crosby/Malkin. Yzerman/Federov right up there. 
 

For the Nucks, I don’t think it gets better than  Nazzy/Bertuzzi, Gradin/Smyl, Sundstrom/Tanti. I’m forgetting others of course. Sedin/Sedin! Those two were also ridiculously record breakers. 
 

 

 

 

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Roster is stale and it is time to sell - imo.  This is looking like the years, after the 2011 cup run and with hindsight, a retool was the wrong choice, despite the Sedins' productivity.  Anyways, I am just not expecting alot from the same JB & Aquman roster and the new FO, is STILL capped out with a weak prospect pool - so not alot of options, right now.  

Lol.   This team hasn't done squat yet ... and isn't the same age group as that team was either.   And they didn't have to blow it up yet either.   The guys aside from Bieksa, we're under contract - and went ahead and won another presidents trophy.   That team had its issues, but was still elite elite.   You don't blow up elite.   MG knee jerk reactions by bringing in Kassian was a big mistake.  Maybe Co-ho wouldn't have got sick so fast IF he was allowed to be a third line C and not forced to be their number one.   He wasn't ready - and our second PP unit with him actually shored things up (teams all got tape on how to deal with the Sedins, their PP was never the same after 2011...and really 24.4% isn't that amazing either) ... anyways the time to "blow it up" was letting the Sedins walk.  Instead one more deal.    It's a disgrace, that a team that good, got us a couple seconds, one first and that's about it other then Horvat.   

 

Anyways this "core" might need a re-boot... stale at 21, 22, 23, 25, 27, 29 is not the best comparison.   Torts called our core stale and for good reason.   Who was our youngest player?  Tanev i guess, then Edler.   Naslund and the Sedins both hit their primes around the same ages, 26 and 27ish...peaked 29/30ish.   Right now we have one player who's peaked that's Miller.   And won't hurt us at his cap hit.   And well he's also still available to trade this year. 

 

One things for sure.   Allvin won't be patient forever.    Hate to say "told you so" to the CDC...but said it at the time, and this team hasn't change my mind yet although i'm still excited about their chances to make the playoffs this year with this roster ... and it's not a bad team to watch when it's on it's a lot of fun. 

 

That is, it was always going to be parts of the post Sedin core and the one coming up after that, that would give us the best chance at getting back to contention.    JB or Holland or Lou or whomever, was going to have a really tough time creating a core with very little to start with.   Linden's core - Keenan blew up and he was younger then the peak Sedin core when he did it ... it gave us enough for two cores.  The WCE era and the Sedin one.   

 

MG/JB lol... yuck.   At least take like Atlanta got Kovi, Heatley/Hossa, and CLB for Rick Nash.    We got ... Horvat.  

 

Look how long it took those teams to sort themselves out?  

 

Why should we expect miracle's...it was always going to take a long time.   That's a 32 team league for you.  When EP is 28-33 ... and only IF we draft and make some savy moves, then maybe we can be a top team again, like we were with the Sedin and WCE era ones.  

 

Also want to say this.   I'm way more curious about what this team can do in the post season then the regular season.   Yes we have to make it there first.   I'm sure Allvin and co are too.   Last crack at it we beat a top 3 defensive team league wide in MIN, the cup champs and then found out we sure weren't that good yet...  17 playoff games in the record books, QHs set rookie records all-time, and, well that's like making the conference finals any other year ... something this teams only done 3 times in their history.   

 

Sounds depressing.   And kind of is.   But that's the state one the league now. They should bring the play-ins back and reduce the regular season back to 80 games.   Even 78 like when Howe played.   Would keep fans interested during their cycles (both up and down). 

 

Tanking for Bedard is an option for sure. Trade Demko, Horvat and Miller.   

 

But let's give them until the all-star break anyways.