[Proposal] Miller plays for his childhood favourite (helllllo Pittsburgh!)

[Coconuts]

Horvat appears to be on his way out, if he goes Miller should too. The Canucks should look at restructuring things around Pettersson, Hughes, and Podz and Miller just doesn't fit the timeline of a rebuild. His best remaining few years would likely be wasted here, his cap could be better utilized being reallocated to our defense, and he'd likely enjoy being in a more competitive environment. Cue the Pittsburgh Penguins. 

 

Pittsburgh was pretty close to where he grew up and he's supposedly got a home there, or at least this video says as much at the beginning. Maybe he sold it, maybe he didn't, I'm going to assume he didn't. He also touches on growing up a Penguins fan at 10:50ish. https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-j-t-miller-family-becoming-social-media-stars-home/

 

Shipping Miller out to Pittsburgh to play for the team he grew up rooting for, and to a region he's got roots in, could help mitigate the optics of shipping him out shortly after signing him to an extension. It's a destination I could see Miller being receptive to, which is an important consideration regarding a trade imo. 

 

It could fit pretty easily honestly. 

 

To Pittsburgh 

 

JT Miller with 50% retained on the last year of his current contract, he'd come in at a 2.65M for the Penguins. 

 

To Vancouver

 

2023 or 2024 1st round pick

Brock McGinn who carries a 2.75M cap hit this season and for the next two seasons (hell, Pittsburgh could retain 100k to make it a perfect fit if it came down to it) 

5.25M in open cap space at the end of the season thanks to Miller's contract being off the books 

 

Pittsburgh likely wants to squeeze as much as they can out of this Crosby, Malkin, and Letang trio and Miller could give them some more scoring punch up front. Miller's 8M extension is easily taken care of due to McGinn's being shipped out and Zucker's 5.5M cap hit coming off the books at the end of the season, this pays Miller with 250k to spare. 

 

Vancouver gets cap flex, a 1st round pick to either use or flip to try and address their D, and a serviceable bottom six forward who comes off the books sooner than later if they wish to reallocate his 2.75M elsewhere. 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Coconuts

[Fanuck]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Horvat appears to be on his way out, if he goes Miller should too.

To me, that immediately signals 're-build' and I've yet to see any indication whatsoever that ownership is willing to go down that dark path.......

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Fanuck said:

To me, that immediately signals 're-build' and I've yet to see any indication whatsoever that ownership is willing to go down that dark path.......

A fair point, but a Horvat trade likely signals another lost season and seriously impacts their ability to be competitive. It's hard to say what ownership wants or how much autonomy management actually has, but I know there's an appetite for a rebuild amongst the fanbase and I don't see any quick turnarounds happening if Horvat's shipped out. 

 

Some fans are more optimistic regarding contention sooner than later but I just don't buy it. We'd be better served building things up gradually than trying to squeeze the dregs out of the veteran part of this core. 

 

I'd go all in on Pettersson, Hughes, and play a longer game building around our younger talent, which is a process we should have started at last season's deadline with a Miller trade imo. 

[Fanuck]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I'd go all in on Pettersson, Hughes, and play a longer game building around our younger talent, which is a process we should have started at last season's deadline with a Miller trade imo. 

Agree on that - I was in the 'trade' camp as well at that time.  Regardless if Miller continued to be productive or not, we were never going to improve as a team if management didn't address the defence - which they didn't, and we're now where we are hovering around .500 yet again - never-ending mediocrity sadly. 

 

As for your original proposal, picks are great assets to acquire, and first rounders are even better - but I'd really like to see a young RHD coming back that can play not only right now but develop into a legit top 2.  With assets like Bo/JT one would like to think acquiring a RHD with top 2 potential could be realistic. 

[mordekai]

20 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Horvat appears to be on his way out, if he goes Miller should too. The Canucks should look at restructuring things around Pettersson, Hughes, and Podz and Miller just doesn't fit the timeline of a rebuild. His best remaining few years would likely be wasted here, his cap could be better utilized being reallocated to our defense, and he'd likely enjoy being in a more competitive environment. Cue the Pittsburgh Penguins. 

 

Pittsburgh was pretty close to where he grew up and he's supposedly got a home there, or at least this video says as much at the beginning. Maybe he sold it, maybe he didn't, I'm going to assume he didn't. He also touches on growing up a Penguins fan at 10:50ish. https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-j-t-miller-family-becoming-social-media-stars-home/

 

Shipping Miller out to Pittsburgh to play for the team he grew up rooting for, and to a region he's got roots in, could help mitigate the optics of shipping him out shortly after signing him to an extension. It's a destination I could see Miller being receptive to, which is an important consideration regarding a trade imo. 

 

It could fit pretty easily honestly. 

 

To Pittsburgh 

 

JT Miller with 50% retained on the last year of his current contract, he'd come in at a 2.65M for the Penguins. 

 

To Vancouver

 

2023 or 2024 1st round pick

Brock McGinn who carries a 2.75M cap hit this season and for the next two seasons (hell, Pittsburgh could retain 100k to make it a perfect fit if it came down to it) 

5.25M in open cap space at the end of the season thanks to Miller's contract being off the books 

 

Pittsburgh likely wants to squeeze as much as they can out of this Crosby, Malkin, and Letang trio and Miller could give them some more scoring punch up front. Miller's 8M extension is easily taken care of due to McGinn's being shipped out and Zucker's 5.5M cap hit coming off the books at the end of the season, this pays Miller with 250k to spare. 

 

Vancouver gets cap flex, a 1st round pick to either use or flip to try and address their D, and a serviceable bottom six forward who comes off the books sooner than later if they wish to reallocate his 2.75M elsewhere. 

 

 

 

I have always thought Pens a great fit for JT. Pens a team that management would feel JT is a fit because they realize Jt can’t be lazy JT with Crosby Letang Malkin in the leadership lockeroom.

[Coconuts]

7 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Agree on that - I was in the 'trade' camp as well at that time.  Regardless if Miller continued to be productive or not, we were never going to improve as a team if management didn't address the defence - which they didn't, and we're now where we are hovering around .500 yet again - never-ending mediocrity sadly. 

 

As for your original proposal, picks are great assets to acquire, and first rounders are even better - but I'd really like to see a young RHD coming back that can play not only right now but develop into a legit top 2.  With assets like Bo/JT one would like to think acquiring a RHD with top 2 potential could be realistic. 

A young RHD would be ideal, we could certainly use one, but Pittsburgh doesn't have any young RD I'd be interested in. They do however have a young LD in the form of Owen Pickering who was selected 21st overall back at the most recent draft. Big for 18 years old at 6'4", had to be a good prospect to go that high, maybe we could build something around him being involved instead of a 1st instead. He'd immediately be our best D prospect.

 

Trades are rarely perfect though. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Coconuts

[Coconuts]

7 minutes ago, mordekai said:

I have always thought Pens a great fit for JT. Pens a team that management would feel JT is a fit because they realize Jt can’t be lazy JT with Crosby Letang Malkin in the leadership lockeroom.

Plus, there's no way he wouldn't produce playing with one of Crosby or Malkin. But you're right, there's no way he could be lazy with a guy like Crosby leading that team. 

[D-Money]

Sounds reasonable on paper, but Pens have to re-sign Jarry at the end of this year, and Guentzel at the end of next. Not sure they’d want to commit $8M long term to Miller.

 

Also, if it did happen, the most likely contract coming back would probably be Kapanen.

[Coconuts]

10 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Sounds reasonable on paper, but Pens have to re-sign Jarry at the end of this year, and Guentzel at the end of next. Not sure they’d want to commit $8M long term to Miller.

 

Also, if it did happen, the most likely contract coming back would probably be Kapanen.

Eh, maybe Kapanen maybe not. I don't think they'd be devastated to give up McGinn. 

 

They could pay Jarry by letting Dumoulin walk and fitting someone cheaper in there. They could trade Kapanen or let him walk to pay Guentzel, their deals expire the same year. Cap should also have rise and they'll another 1M as Johnson's buyout cap hit drops. Jeff Carter also expires the same season as Guentzel and he almost certainly won't be back, they can reallocate that elsewhere. 

 

I think the Penguins could manage it. 

[Fanuck]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

A young RHD would be ideal, we could certainly use one, but Pittsburgh doesn't have any young RD I'd be interested in. They do however have a young LD in the form of Owen Pickering who was selected 21st overall back at the most recent draft. Big for 18 years old at 6'4", had to be a good prospect to go that high, maybe we could build something around him being involved instead of a 1st instead. He'd immediately be our best D prospect.

 

Trades are rarely perfect though. 

I know people are going to post up a bunch of reasons why this wouldn't happen - but I'd explore a BoHo/Rathbone for Byram (cap-dump player) deal at the TDL - I'd even retain on BoHo's last year (that cost would certainly not be a burden given the return) to make that happen earlier so he can fit Col cap. 

 

First, I don't think Byram is untouchable by any means - if they didn't have Makar, maybe, but Byram is going to be underutilized for his entire career if he stays in Col whereas we have virtually nobody ahead of a guy like Byram on RD. 

Second, BoHo gives them an actual replacement for Kadri opposed to Rodrigues/Compher who were never going to be able to adequately fill that loss.  

Third, as a true 'rental', BoHo represents no 'financial' commitment to the team long-term.  We could easily take back Compher's expiring deal in return to make the deal even more appealing. 

Fourth, Sakic and MacFarland know better than anyone how hard it is to repeat in this league - Byram would be a huge cost to them but BoHo would give them a seriously legitimate chance of doing just that, and maybe worth the price to repeat?

 

Basically, I'd be making calls if I were Allvin and I don't think a deal like that is as unrealistic as some might initially think. 

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

I know people are going to post up a bunch of reasons why this wouldn't happen - but I'd explore a BoHo/Rathbone for Byram (cap-dump player) deal at the TDL - I'd even retain on BoHo's last year (that cost would certainly not be a burden given the return) to make that happen earlier so he can fit Col cap. 

 

First, I don't think Byram is untouchable by any means - if they didn't have Makar, maybe, but Byram is going to be underutilized for his entire career if he stays in Col whereas we have virtually nobody ahead of a guy like Byram on RD. 

Second, BoHo gives them an actual replacement for Kadri opposed to Rodrigues/Compher who were never going to be able to adequately fill that loss.  

Third, as a true 'rental', BoHo represents no 'financial' commitment to the team long-term.  We could easily take back Compher's expiring deal in return to make the deal even more appealing. 

Fourth, Sakic and MacFarland know better than anyone how hard it is to repeat in this league - Byram would be a huge cost to them but BoHo would give them a seriously legitimate chance of doing just that, and maybe worth the price to repeat?

 

Basically, I'd be making calls if I were Allvin and I don't think a deal like that is as unrealistic as some might initially think. 

I do think Byram is appealing but I do have questions regarding his ability to stay healthy, there's no denying that the Avs miss having a legit 2C behind MacKinnon though. The Avs could certainly use a Horvat, I question whether they've got the pieces we need though. 

[Angry Goose]

I suspect after re-signing JT mgmt would want more for a premier player. I dont think “cap dump” is what they would be thinking.  If PIT added a prospect like Pickering the Canucks might seriously entertain it.

 

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

I suspect after re-signing JT mgmt would want more for a premier player. I dont think “cap dump” is what they would be thinking.  If PIT added a prospect like Pickering the Canucks might seriously entertain it.

 

I dunno, cap space in itself is an extremely valuable commodity and a 1st and a reliable bottom six player ain't nothing on top of it. I do think cap space itself needs to be viewed as an asset returned in a trade. 

 

But yeah, I'd absolutely be receptive to Pickering. I don't think you'd get him, a 1st, and McGinn back for Miller though. But hey, I'd absolutely take it. 

 

Maybe something along the lines of McGinn and Pickering or maybe McGinn, Pickering, and a 2nd if we throw Rathbone or a solid prospect back their way? 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Coconuts

[Phil_314]

I don't know their prospect system well enough to know who'd be a good add, but if the Pens want to add Miller for a run at the end of the Crosby/ Malkin/ Letang era I'd be down for it.  Just wondering how the cap would fit since (as mentioned before) they need to sign Jarry/ Guentzel, etc. in the near future.

If their prospects available doesn't beat out teams like Columbus (e.g., Peeke + RD or C prospect, plus pick) I'd have to say send him to Ohio instead.

[Angry Goose]

17 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I dunno, cap space in itself is an extremely valuable commodity and a 1st and a reliable bottom six player ain't nothing on top of it. I do think cap space itself needs to be viewed as an asset returned in a trade. 

 

But yeah, I'd absolutely be receptive to Pickering. I don't think you'd get him, a 1st, and McGinn back for Miller though. But hey, I'd absolutely take it. 

 

Maybe something along the lines of McGinn and Pickering or maybe McGinn, Pickering, and a 2nd if we throw Rathbone or a solid prospect back their way? 

I know what u mean about cap space-I just dont know what mgmt’s mindset is about moving Miller.  If cap space is what they wanted i think moving Miller before re-signing would have been easy.  They obviously think very highly of him/see his importance to the team-maybe that has changed I dont know.

 

If mgmt does move him though and Horvat, Id be mighty surprised.  Both are key components to this team’s offense especially the PP.  Miller especially. 

[jyu]

Let's see where Horvat goes and what he returns before we consider the Miller trade destinations.

 

[D-Money]

2 hours ago, Fanuck said:

I know people are going to post up a bunch of reasons why this wouldn't happen - but I'd explore a BoHo/Rathbone for Byram (cap-dump player) deal at the TDL - I'd even retain on BoHo's last year (that cost would certainly not be a burden given the return) to make that happen earlier so he can fit Col cap. 

 

First, I don't think Byram is untouchable by any means - if they didn't have Makar, maybe, but Byram is going to be underutilized for his entire career if he stays in Col whereas we have virtually nobody ahead of a guy like Byram on RD. 

Second, BoHo gives them an actual replacement for Kadri opposed to Rodrigues/Compher who were never going to be able to adequately fill that loss.  

Third, as a true 'rental', BoHo represents no 'financial' commitment to the team long-term.  We could easily take back Compher's expiring deal in return to make the deal even more appealing. 

Fourth, Sakic and MacFarland know better than anyone how hard it is to repeat in this league - Byram would be a huge cost to them but BoHo would give them a seriously legitimate chance of doing just that, and maybe worth the price to repeat?

 

Basically, I'd be making calls if I were Allvin and I don't think a deal like that is as unrealistic as some might initially think. 

Byram is a LD.

[sockeye]

I can’t see an opportunity to trade Miller at his $ and term unless we retained salary. I wish we could, then keep Bo but I don’t see that happening.

[Fanuck]

1 hour ago, D-Money said:

Byram is a LD.

He is left shot and plays left side preferably, but in Jr and parts of his first 2 seasons he was used on the right side.  Regardless,  if there was an opportunity to acquire him for an expiring asset, it's worth a look.

[KirkSave]

2 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

He is left shot and plays left side preferably, but in Jr and parts of his first 2 seasons he was used on the right side.  Regardless,  if there was an opportunity to acquire him for an expiring asset, it's worth a look.

Byram oozes talent and upside but his injury prone history at the NHL level concerns me.