J.I.A.H.N Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 (edited) Note* All years are stated in 2023-2024 Season (Not this year) Trade #1 (Timing: Before the Draft) Boeser (2 X $6,650,000), Rathbone, and McDonaugh for Murphy(3 X $4,400,000) and Chicago 2023 - 2nd Chicago does this to gain 3 young assets............. Vancouver pays a premium to gain a solid veteran RHD under contract, that is cost efficient, and will add to Vancouver. The Chicago 2nd will be early and will get a very good prospect out of it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trade #2 (Timing: 2023 TDL) Tucker Poolman (2 X $2,500,000 LTIR) for Nika Zaitsev (1 X $4,500,000) , Oskar Pettersson, and Ottawa's 2023-2nd There is no cost to Ottawa to get rid of $4,500,000 contract, and the price will either be a 1st or the above assets. Pettersson plays big and looks good in the World Juniors..........besides, we will need another Pettersson to confuse John Garrett. The 2023 2nd should be high. It is a cap dump, plan and simple, but in conjunction with the other trades, we become bigger and tougher on the RHD side. This move is all about gaining young assets. Allvin will not be able to contain himself about getting another Swedish asset. (Go figure!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trade #3 (Timing: 2023 TDL) Tyler Myers (1 X $6,000,000) for Damon Severson (UFA $4.166,666) and 2023 2nd New Jersey does this to extend by one year, the luxury of having a veteran RHD when Nemec arrives next year (They may have to make a minor move to make this happen) The one year is worth the 2023 2nd. Not to mention Myers has more points and a better +/- than Severson. Vancouver does this to have a chance at Severson before he becomes a UFA, and they rid them selves of Myers $6,000,000 contract 1 year earlier. Although, the 2023 2nd is later, it is a deep draft, and there should still be good things on the shelf still. (New Jersey is loaded with prospects) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trade #4 (Timing: 2023 TDL) Bo Horvat for Gustav Nyquist (UFA $5,500,000), Sillinger (1 X $925,000) , Ceulemans, and 2023 2nd This trade stems from the fact that Columbus has Gaudreau and Laine, which makes the point, they did not plan to be at the bottom of the standings this year. Horvat adds a player that is at the top of his game, now. Which is exactly why Columbus wants Horvat. Horvat will sign to be close to home, and I believe that is extremely important to Horvat. The other point in all this is that Columbus does not loose their 2023 1st or Juricek (2022 1st) Vancouver does this because they signed Miller to that ridiculous contract, which starts next year. They do this because Sillinger is a perfect type of player to develop into a 3rd line center. Ceulemans fits in as our #1 RHD prospect, and the 2023-2nd will be quite high, and should offer up a great prospect. Nyquist walks at the end of the year, with thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Luke Schenn (Timing: TDL UFA $925,000) Note *** I would rather re-sign him for Washington's 2024 2nd (I think they fall in 2024) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IN: Murphy, Severson, Zaitsev, Sillinger, Ceulemans, Pettersson, Chicago's 2nd (33 OA), Columbus's 2nd (35 OA), Ottawa's 2nd (43rd OA), New Jerseys 2nd (58 OA). To go along with our current 2023 1st (9th OA) and 2023 2nd (41st OA) CAP IN: Approx $14,000,000 Out: Horvat, Boeser, Myers, Poolman, Rathbone, McDonaugh CAP OUT:19,100,000 (Not including Poolman's LTIR) Note* Chicago might balk at giving up their 2023-2nd as it is the 1st pick of the second round, but there would be a solid asset coming back, regardless. Depending of our scouting, and such, we would be gaining great assets, and setting our future up with assets and young players. Note** Zaisev's contract is over, the same year #40 Pettersson is due is new one................great planning ? Hey! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2023-2024 Roster Prospects/Assets Kuzmenko Pettersson Pederson #1. 2023 1st (9th OA) currently (likely to move up after Horvat goes) Mikheyev Miller Podkolzin #2 Ceulemans 2021 1st RHD (picked 25th OA) Hoglander Sillinger Garland #3. Lekerimakki 2022 1st RW (picked 15th OA) Joshua Dries/Aman Lockwood #4. Karlsson 2018 3rd C (picked 87th OA) #5. Chicago's 2023 2nd (33 OA) currently Hughes Murphy #6. Columbus's 2023 2nd (35 OA) currently OEL Severson #7. Vancouver's 2023 2nd (41 OA) currently Dermott Zaitsev #8. Ottawa's 2023 2nd (43 OA) currently Stillman Burroughs #9. New Jersey's 2023 2nd (58 OA) currently 10 Vancouver's 2023 3rd (71 OA) Demko Martin Silovs (propsect) Thanks, and sorry for the long read! Edited January 2, 2023 by J.I.A.H.N 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Interesting. I kind of like the first two proposals, while #3 doesn't technically work since the Devils won't be able to trade Severson's UFA rights as they don't have it (he can sign wherever, and so they'd be trading a 2nd for Myers, which I'd do but I suspect they wouldn't). Also, not sure why Columbus goes all-in pretty much to trade for a pending UFA when Horvat (if un-signed) likely signs with a contender and the Jackets would want more assurance from their return that they'd re-sign (which isn't a guarantee at all as the Jackets are bottom-feeding and it's rare that a Gaudreau-type UFA signing happens for a bottom-feeder, much less rare a player like Horvat who would probably want to contend while in his prime) in order to move on from Sillinger and Ceulemans. Maybe swap Miller in for Horvat and that could get it done (although with a reduced asset package) IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 41 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: Interesting. I kind of like the first two proposals, while #3 doesn't technically work since the Devils won't be able to trade Severson's UFA rights as they don't have it (he can sign wherever, and so they'd be trading a 2nd for Myers, which I'd do but I suspect they wouldn't). Also, not sure why Columbus goes all-in pretty much to trade for a pending UFA when Horvat (if un-signed) likely signs with a contender and the Jackets would want more assurance from their return that they'd re-sign (which isn't a guarantee at all as the Jackets are bottom-feeding and it's rare that a Gaudreau-type UFA signing happens for a bottom-feeder, much less rare a player like Horvat who would probably want to contend while in his prime) in order to move on from Sillinger and Ceulemans. Maybe swap Miller in for Horvat and that could get it done (although with a reduced asset package) IMO. Thanks for the comments Phil I need to go back and make it more clear......The Severson/Myers trade would be at this TDL.........so, it can happen......sorry I thought that was clear. As for Columbus ,neither Sillinger or Ceulemans will be blue chip and IMO with the signing of Gaudreau, I think they thought they would be much better this year. I think they go for it at the TDL and will be ready for next year. Your point about Horvat is valid, but I think GM's talk, and I think most know what Horvat wants.......I also don't think Miller has much if any of a market, unless you are actually giving him away.............lots of baggage, which is why it was so hard to trade him last year, despite having a 100 point season. Thanks for your opinions, as it gives me a chance to explain, and fix things....... Cheers...........Happy New Year! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Thanks for the comments Phil I need to go back and make it more clear......The Severson/Myers trade would be at this TDL.........so, it can happen......sorry I thought that was clear. As for Columbus ,neither Sillinger or Ceulemans will be blue chip and IMO with the signing of Gaudreau, I think they thought they would be much better this year. I think they go for it at the TDL and will be ready for next year. Your point about Horvat is valid, but I think GM's talk, and I think most know what Horvat wants.......I also don't think Miller has much if any of a market, unless you are actually giving him away.............lots of baggage, which is why it was so hard to trade him last year, despite having a 100 point season. Thanks for your opinions, as it gives me a chance to explain, and fix things....... Cheers...........Happy New Year! Ah okay, seems like I misread for the Severson one; if they'd do that I'd be down (even if Severson walks, freeing up $6 million in cap space is already a win, plus Myers has been replacement level; we could probably sign Erik Johnson or Scott Mayfield for cheaper). For the Columbus one, if they can have a sign-and-trade agreement then they likely would agree? Presuming that's the hypothetical here then yeah okay that would work. Happy new year! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Hi Jan. CHI are rebuilding. They will be seeking picks in return for Murphy, not trading him along with a 2nd. And especially not for Boeser who is no use while they are tanking, plus Rathbone and McDonough are not top prospects so would not move the needle for CHI in my opinion. Also I think NJD will either keep Severson for their playoff run or trade him for futures. Can’t see them being interested in Myers 1-for-1 and they certainly won’t be throwing in a 2nd round pick. The other trade ideas are good. But then not sure the cap in/out stacks up without the Boeser and Myers trades. Cheers! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 NO MORE PETTERSSON'S!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Thanks for the comments Phil I need to go back and make it more clear......The Severson/Myers trade would be at this TDL.........so, it can happen......sorry I thought that was clear. As for Columbus ,neither Sillinger or Ceulemans will be blue chip and IMO with the signing of Gaudreau, I think they thought they would be much better this year. I think they go for it at the TDL and will be ready for next year. Your point about Horvat is valid, but I think GM's talk, and I think most know what Horvat wants.......I also don't think Miller has much if any of a market, unless you are actually giving him away.............lots of baggage, which is why it was so hard to trade him last year, despite having a 100 point season. Thanks for your opinions, as it gives me a chance to explain, and fix things....... Cheers...........Happy New Year! Happy New Year! Interesting ideas. The CLB one does make sense on both sides. One thing Horvat i'm sure knows is aside from being rented this year, he's not going to be likely signing with a contender. Not without some big moves to fit him in, and those opportunity costs go up on his overall price. If a contender rents him (first, prospect, roster player back) and then also jams him in during the off season, they'd also lose valuable depth to fit him in, similar to what Vegas has to do to fit Alex P and Eichel in (lose a lot of quality support players). Think Horvat is much more likely to sign with a middling up and coming team (possibly us), then a cap strapped, maxed out team. So not just the first, grade A prospect and the roster to help their cap, also maybe a Tuch. Yikes getting expensive. Also CLB has been rumoured to have kicked tires on Horvat - good job! So the Columbus is a solid proposal. I don't think NJ gives us a second for Myers coming back and Severson. Severson on his own could get them a late first. And both Nemec and Luke Hughes are going to be on their roster next season. Just my thoughts on that, maybe if we retained we'd be able to do that trade and get a second, otherwise feel we would be paying the second to trade Myers, to get a chance to see if Severson is a good fit. Would definitely consider it, but only IF we re-sign Horvat. All in sort of idea. Which i'm not opposed to. Miller/Horvat? create one line in our top six for more then half a decade likely. That line has potential to be something. Like the Brock trade. That would work well for our cap situation for sure and well worth it. Not sure CHI does but that's the point in this. If it doesn't hurt for both sides it's not fair. As for Miller. Chytill, Lundkvist and their first was a solid offer. Other teams did want him. TO did too. It was on the owners and managers not making that trade 100%. Several offers were made. Considering Dallas paid a first to get NYR RHD prospect ... well Vancouver wasn't the only one that was high on Rathbone and rightly so. Was ranked higher ... by virtually everyone at the time. Since then that's changed. So has Miller's play and on ice antics. Bieksa and Hrudey - didn't think either ripped him a new one (if that's a scolding, not very thick skin lol ... good grief try working in the military or a high paced construction site) but glad they talked about it. It's looking like a mistake right now, but funny how things go...how many thought we'd get Miller for 8 x 7? That was the low side of things really at the time. Like a no state tax deal low. Personally rather we re-sign Horvat but get he's asking for first line center money now. And he's earned it. If Skinner and Duchene got paid, why shouldn't he? Edit: To free up cash we'd need to sell low on Brock, and Myers needs a new home too. That would do it. Then work on creating a long term line for EP and our top six is set. JR is a lot of wind so far, but i do agree, creating long term lines is a recipe for success. To do that i think we'd be lucky to come out of it without giving up picks and prospects of our own. I'd be ok with this, but we need to be prepared to balance either retention or futures. Edited January 2, 2023 by IBatch 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Phil_314 said: Interesting. I kind of like the first two proposals, while #3 doesn't technically work since the Devils won't be able to trade Severson's UFA rights as they don't have it (he can sign wherever, and so they'd be trading a 2nd for Myers, which I'd do but I suspect they wouldn't). Also, not sure why Columbus goes all-in pretty much to trade for a pending UFA when Horvat (if un-signed) likely signs with a contender and the Jackets would want more assurance from their return that they'd re-sign (which isn't a guarantee at all as the Jackets are bottom-feeding and it's rare that a Gaudreau-type UFA signing happens for a bottom-feeder, much less rare a player like Horvat who would probably want to contend while in his prime) in order to move on from Sillinger and Ceulemans. Maybe swap Miller in for Horvat and that could get it done (although with a reduced asset package) IMO. Horvat likely has to find a home on a middling team. Contenders already have their lines set, claused etc. Maybe a team like TO would try and fit him in by trying to trade Nylander. But they don't need him as a top six center really.... Miller was actually a better fit given he's a LW/C. That said one of those guys could move over, and Horvat would give them a succession plan of sorts for Mathews. Edited January 2, 2023 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 3 hours ago, BigTramFan said: Hi Jan. CHI are rebuilding. They will be seeking picks in return for Murphy, not trading him along with a 2nd. And especially not for Boeser who is no use while they are tanking, plus Rathbone and McDonough are not top prospects so would not move the needle for CHI in my opinion. Also I think NJD will either keep Severson for their playoff run or trade him for futures. Can’t see them being interested in Myers 1-for-1 and they certainly won’t be throwing in a 2nd round pick. The other trade ideas are good. But then not sure the cap in/out stacks up without the Boeser and Myers trades. Cheers! CHI also needs vets to help insulate their next group of guys, and both Kane and Toews might be thanked for their services and let go. Tough to say. Brock is a modest risk, he's proven in the past he can be a play driver, and of course score goals. But hasn't done it for two seasons now. Only two years left on his deal...personally feel if we don't re-sign Horvat, Vancouver just takes that risk on themselves, and considers trading him later. Too bad cap likely isn't going up or a lot of our problems might go away. Ilya Mikheyev was an odd signing tactically, and the arrival of Kuzmenko ... well let's just say i think management won't have much choice but to trade Kuzmenko, Schenn and Horvat if they can't figure sh!t out. Sucks. Our PK turned the corner under Walker and it should be even better but isn't. We went from all-time worst to a respectable 11th overall during Bruce's bump last year. Ugh. Between those early blown leads, and our PK, losing our starter and well our starter not the same guy (believe he will bounce back) .... things could have been a lot different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck You Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Personally I would like a little more sand paper in that forward group, Looks a lil' soft. I'd trade Garlund also. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, Canuck You said: Personally I would like a little more sand paper in that forward group, Looks a lil' soft. I'd trade Garlund also. Garland to the Habs for Anderson? Boeser to the Caps for Mantha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAVA-1 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Lots to think through on these proposals. I would not do trade 1 as is, take McDonaugh out and a lesser prospect instead. Trade 2 and 3 I would do. Trade 4 is the one that I would want Svozil in that deal other than Sillinger or the pick. I really think Svozil will be a good top 4 player in time. he has a good all round game from what I've watched over the last couple years. I never hear his name mentioned in trade proposals but would be for me. Schenn being traded would be dependent on other deals being made, if we get a fill in then as much as I love having him on the team (all the way back to his Kelowna Rocket days actually) then you get something for him. We need a long term plan to be successful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: NO MORE PETTERSSON'S!!! your too much. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 How about.... To NJ: Miller, 50% retained (current contract only, not the extended) Rathbone To Vancouver: Luke Hughes (plays LD / RD according to Capfriendly) Michael McLeod Conditional 2023 2nd (Devils make it at least to round 3, becomes a 2023 1st if Devils make finals or win the cup and Miller hits at least 18 points in the run) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 @IBatch Thanks for your comments Batch I disagree with your feelings about a Severson/Myers trade........ Severson and Myers are both playing 2nd pairing minutes, Severson with a top 10 team, and Myers on a bottom 10 team, But if you look at their play over the last year, you will find that Myers actually has better stats. Myers gets no respect, but if we did not have him, we would be pouched! Gauge him on his contribution and not his pay......... Seversons Stats.............goals 2 assists 4 = 6 pts +/- ........0 in 36 games..................Severson was -14 last year Myers Stats.....................goals 0 assists 9 = 9 pts +/- .....+6 in 33 games..................Myers was +15 last year So my conclusion is, other than the PP points, from last year, Myers 5 on 5 play is better than Severson's. But the late 2nd is not for play, it is for the 1 year extra that Myers gives New Jersey, that they need. Aka, they do not really want to be re-signing Severson at a costly raise and years, when they only need 1 more year, before Nemec is ready. Myers gives them that at cost certainty. A late 2nd is not really all that much. Myers is also a certainty in regards to not having to go out and "maybe" getting a 1 year replacement. IMO, UFA's are not really looking for 1 year deals, unless no one really wants them, and that is exactly what a top 10 team does not want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 (edited) As for the "rumored" Miller trade last year................Vancouver should have taken that NY Rangers offer. We as fans would have cried like babies, but the fact is, it would have been a solid offer, and it would have solved some of the problems we are facing this year with Bo. IMO, Bo would have signed for at least a million less per year than what he is asking for now. The 2 extra 1st's in a strong draft would not have hurt either! Aka Lundkvist trade to Dallas, as a after the fact deal. I have a problem with these GM's not knowing what to expect.....aka Miller's dropping from a career year, and that Bo's play is very consistent, and really only could go up, if anything, which they knew would increase his asking price. Not to mention avoiding all this drama, which has to get into the players minds. Some big gambles by the new administration that did not work. Not a way to start your employment. But gee, we sure have a great front office! Which they did not get exactly right either! Let's not even get into the PK dilemma! Edited January 2, 2023 by J.I.A.H.N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck You Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 19 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said: As for the "rumored" Miller trade last year................Vancouver should have taken that NY Rangers offer. We as fans would have cried like babies, but the fact is, it would have been a solid offer, and it would have solved some of the problems we are facing this year with Bo. IMO, Bo would have signed for at least a million less per year than what he is asking for now. The 2 extra 1st's in a strong draft would not have hurt either! Aka Lundkvist trade to Dallas, as a after the fact deal. I have a problem with these GM's not knowing what to expect.....aka Miller's dropping from a career year, and that Bo's play is very consistent, and really only could go up, if anything, which they knew would increase his asking price. Not to mention avoiding all this drama, which has to get into the players minds. Some big gambles by the new administration that did not work. Not a way to start your employment. But gee, we sure have a great front office! Which they did not get exactly right either! Let's not even get into the PK dilemma! What did NY offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Canuck You said: What did NY offer? I say Rumored, because nothing was ever confirmed............. Chytil, 2023-1st and Nils Lundkvist (later traded to Dallas Stars for a 2023-1st) That is what I heard, anyways.......all just rumor unless confirmed by a GM (media is not confirmation) Edited January 2, 2023 by J.I.A.H.N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck You Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said: I say Rumored, because nothing was ever confirmed............. Chytil, 2023-1st and Nils Lundkvist (later traded to Dallas Stars for a 2023-1st) That is what I heard, anyways.......all just rumor unless confirmed by a GM (media is not confirmation) Dang! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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