[Rumour] Canucks getting calls on Thatcher Demko

[spook007]

7 minutes ago, canuckleheads fan said:

First of all why does it matter who plays goal for the next two years, the team is going to be baaaaaad, that's what happens with a rebuild. Get a good return and move Demko to a team where he can win. If management wants to rack up good picks, play Delia and Martin. Or if they want, bring Silovs along as the eventual starter, and let him grow up with the young team. He certainly played well enough in his audition, so let him play.

In 2 years Petey will be 27-28, and UFA...

I will be concerned about him hanging around, if all we have in 2 years is a bunch of picks and prospects...

 

I get your idea, and its the right way to properly tank, but this should have happened under Benning before Petey became a proper star same goes for QH. 
They will want to win things, and if that means leaving Vancouver, its not unlikely to happen. 
 

Once you have stars its hard to tank because they are too good and they won't want to see their hockey life waste away, while one management after another tries to draft better players that may/may not be worth it in the end. 

[canuckleheads fan]

28 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Why ruin Silvos though?  Speaking of So-Cal... Gibson was amazing during a lot of bad ANA teams ... they didn't trade him.   Probably should have.    Demko isn't old as far as EP/QHs "window".   He's a great stop-gap at worst unless his injuries have mounted up to the point he's Salo but in net which wouldn't work well for us or a team trading for him.  

 

One year doesn't equal a career.    Every single year a different goalie moves into the top five and another out.   Blue chip number ones aren't easy to acquire.    Last year Martin was the man.    Silvos, odds are much greater he's a flash in the pan (Martin and 400 others like him) than an NHL starter.    As far as age goes, it's only relevant because Demko was used and abused and couldn't make it work.  Luongo was used and abused for at least 1/3 of his career.    Including his first two years with us.      You can't ice an NHL team like that either.    Even those great Oilers teams had veteran leaders.   Same with PIT first Crosby cup - loaded with them.   Same with CHI first cup.   Demko at 30-33?  That's a different story ... by then on his next deal and either settling into a back-up role or recovered and entering his latter half.    The best goalies don't suck at that age that's for sure.   

Silovs has been improving year over year until this season when he emerged as the anchor for an excellent season in Abby.  He's been improving because of his work with Ian Clark, who is reportedly a big fan. I'll go with Clark's assessment that Silovs has serious NHL potential.

[spook007]

10 minutes ago, canuckleheads fan said:

Petey has to get used to not making the playoffs for the next two years. Rebuilds don't happen in a season. If management is lucky they'll get a solid middle six forward or second or third pairing Dman unless we get a top-five pick. But that top pick this hear can develop over the next couple of years. 

Its not not making the play offs the next 2 years, but the players drafted don't become impact players for another 4-6 years... 

How many years did it take McD to become an impact player? 3-4 years and that is the biggest talent in living memory. 
Petey had a year i Sweden and another 3-4 here before being a proper impact player, and he is the best we've drafted in a long time. 
Drafted players take time to develop, thus my concerns Petey and his agent will look at this and determine, if Canucks really show ambition or not. 

[canuckleheads fan]

7 minutes ago, spook007 said:

In 2 years Petey will be 27-28, and UFA...

I will be concerned about him hanging around, if all we have in 2 years is a bunch of picks and prospects...

 

I get your idea, and its the right way to properly tank, but this should have happened under Benning before Petey became a proper star same goes for QH. 
They will want to win things, and if that means leaving Vancouver, its not unlikely to happen. 
 

Once you have stars its hard to tank because they are too good and they won't want to see their hockey life waste away, while one management after another tries to draft better players that may/may not be worth it in the end. 

I think with Petey, if he sees improvement over the next two years, he will stick around. I'm more concerned that Hughes bolts to NJ when he gets the chance.

[Nucker 67]

6 minutes ago, canuckleheads fan said:

I think with Petey, if he sees improvement over the next two years, he will stick around. I'm more concerned that Hughes bolts to NJ when he gets the chance.

Go with no captain for the next season as well.

 

Make Hughes captain when he turns 25, the start of the 2024/25 season. I don't think he'll bolt if he's captain, and he would make a good one.

[canuckleheads fan]

4 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Its not not making the play offs the next 2 years, but the players drafted don't become impact players for another 4-6 years... 

How many years did it take McD to become an impact player? 3-4 years and that is the biggest talent in living memory. 
Petey had a year i Sweden and another 3-4 here before being a proper impact player, and he is the best we've drafted in a long time. 
Drafted players take time to develop, thus my concerns Petey and his agent will look at this and determine, if Canucks really show ambition or not. 

Then why is everybody so pro tank, because a true tank is at least a five year turnaround. I tend to agree with you, I hate tanking because I lose interest in watching games. But if we're going to tank, go all in. I see what management is doing in getting underused young players who are maybe a hear or two from hitting their peak. They are using the Brian Burke technique of acquiring younger players with potential like Naslund, Morrison and Big Bert. They might have hit the jackpot with Beauvillier as one of those players looking for a fresh start and a chance to play on the top line with two future superstars. The draft picks are nice, but this philosophy also looks a little like the LVGN expansion draft theory and it just might work.

[spook007]

9 minutes ago, canuckleheads fan said:

I think with Petey, if he sees improvement over the next two years, he will stick around. I'm more concerned that Hughes bolts to NJ when he gets the chance.

That's also a likely scenario. 
Have to say though, QH to me at least seems to be an honest, level headed boy, and loyal too... 

But getting to play in the NHL on a team with your brothers, could be too hard to resist. Yeah there could be, and likely will be a lot of changes over the next few years. 

[spook007]

1 minute ago, canuckleheads fan said:

Then why is everybody so pro tank, because a true tank is at least a five year turnaround. I tend to agree with you, I hate tanking because I lose interest in watching games. But if we're going to tank, go all in. I see what management is doing in getting underused young players who are maybe a hear or two from hitting their peak. They are using the Brian Burke technique of acquiring younger players with potential like Naslund, Morrison and Big Bert. They might have hit the jackpot with Beauvillier as one of those players looking for a fresh start and a chance to play on the top line with two future superstars. The draft picks are nice, but this philosophy also looks a little like the LVGN expansion draft theory and it just might work.

Spot on...

 

I think tanking hard is fine, if you are at the end of a cycle... 2012-2014 they should have sold off anything they could (and not drafted JV )... hindsight is magic). 

Problem not going all in and really accumulating pieces is, we now really have a leg in each camp. 
With Demko out, we were likely just Petey away from sinking to the bottom of the league. 
 

Lets hope we keep hitting on players and PA actually manages to get us a competetive team. 
 

 

[Nucker 67]

So, LA traded Quick for Korpisalo, and Kings fans are pissed. He's not having a great year, hasn't been that good for 3+ years really.

 

Do you think it's possible that the Kings aren't done?

 

to LA - Demko

to VAN - Korpisalo, Turcotte and Grans

 

Not keen on a Korpisalo/Silovs tandem moving forward though, but Korp is a UFA after this season. What would VAN do for goaltending next season? 

 

VAN signs UFA Tristan Jarry (PIT) in the off season. 

[Provost]

Honstly, the prices are so high right now trading Demko does make sense if you can make the right deal.

Try to not take any money back except deals expiring this season because a whole ton of teams making mistakes right now are going to need help to offload contracts at the draft and in the offseason.  A team with cap space will be able to rebuild their roster with decent roster players PLUS future assets just to take on those contracts.  That isn't even counting the RFAs that teams are going to have to not qualify because they can't afford a nebulous future arbitration award that they aren't allowed to walk away from.

The market has given an offramp for JR and Allvin to actually being a playoff team in 1-3 years instead of 2-5 years if they are bold enough to take it.

Trade Miller, Boeser, and Demko this deadline and we suddenly can be in the game during the offseason.

Things have gotten so crazy at the moment, I don't envision a world where the PA and league don't artificially increase the cap by an extra couple million just as a release valve.  Otherwise this summer's crop of UFAs are just not going to have any dollars available to get anywhere near decent market level deals.

[qwijibo]

8 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

So, LA traded Quick for Korpisalo, and Kings fans are pissed. He's not having a great year, hasn't been that good for 3+ years really.

 

Do you think it's possible that the Kings aren't done?

 

to LA - Demko

to VAN - Korpisalo, Turcotte and Grans

 

Not keen on a Korpisalo/Silovs tandem moving forward though, but Korp is a UFA after this season. What would VAN do for goaltending next season? 

 

VAN signs UFA Tristan Jarry (PIT) in the off season. 

No. You’re grasping at straws.  LA made their move. 

[coho8888]

5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

so we should wait till demko is worth nothing more than a backup before trading him? we aint competing in the next 2-3 years.. demko contract will be over in 3.. if we can get value for him right now i'm all for moving him.. keeping demko in Vancouver doesn't help with the rebuild in the next 2-3 years.. easier to find a stop gap goalie in UFA while we continue our tank.. with demko's injury history.. he can very well be the next Cory Schneider.. couple good years left and then deteriorated fast.. we prolly aint competing till his contract is over.. and by then there's a big risk he's the next schneider.. if that's the case do both a favor give demko a chance at a contender if there's one willing ie LA while Van gains asset for 3-4 years down the road

 

i find it hard to believe a lot of the player before they came to vancouver were all doing fine.. and then as soon as they reach vancouver.. they don't know how to play hockey anymore.. i want to believe this is just a case of miscasting players in the wrong role putting them in a spot to fail

Stop gap UFA goalies?  Holtby and Halak didn't quite work out did they?

 

You seem to be so sure of yourself on Demko's medical condition, do you have info that we don't?

 

I keep hearing people wanting to trade everyone not named Petey or Hughes because they don't fit the age group when our team becomes competitive again.  Does anyone know how long this will take?  Or exactly when the window gets opened?  No one knows for sure because no two rebuild/retools are the same.  

 

We could win the lottery this year and pick Bedard and have one of the strongest center groups in the league.  add whatever Young RHD we get from the NYI's pick that's closer to being ready.  sign a couple cheaper free agent d's with value.  Get rid of Myers and manage OEL to get more out of him.  Have the team play with more structure and get Bubble Demko back and we could be competing in a couple years.  Makes any talk of age gaps moot.

 

Conversely, you gut the whole team leaving only Petey and Quinn.  Your picks take a lot longer to develop.  Your core gets older and may not want to be around.  What then?  

 

Worried about Demko's age when we start competing?  Goalies tend to have a longer shelf than skaters.  Tim Thomas won a Stanley Cup, Conn Smyth and Vezina at 37 years old.

 

Not saying Demko is Tim Thomas but just giving an example of that goalies are still productive past 30.

 

The only way I would trade Demko is if we know his injuries will affect the way he plays going forward or if he does not want to be here.

[Nucker 67]

Just now, qwijibo said:

No. You’re grasping at straws.  LA made their move. 

LA is a contender. I can't imagine they're going to try and win with Korpisalo, who is not very good and going to become UFA. 

[qwijibo]

10 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

LA is a contender. I can't imagine they're going to try and win with Korpisalo, who is not very good and going to become UFA. 

He’s been substantially better than than Demko this season.   He’s got a .913 save percentage and 3.13 gaa.  He’s also ranked 16th in goals saved above expected per 60 
 

Demko is a giant question mark right now. Beyond his injury issues  His save percentage is .884. His goals against is 3.93 and he’s ranked 56th in goals saved above expected per 60 

 

They can re-examine their goaltending over the summer 

[RakuRaku]

I'd say no to trading Demko... he's still young and capable of bouncing back!! You just can't find a solid young goalie at $5M AAV anywhere these days... unless you wanna roll with Delia and Silovs next season for tanking purposes OR blow $6M+ for a veteran goalie who may or may not be as good as Demko..... so what is the point??

 

Just focus on trading Boeser plssssssssssssssssssssssss...... I'd be happy with Marcus Petersson and/or Pierre-Oliver Joseph + Samuel Poulin (if we must retain some % of Boeser's salary)

[mll]

30 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

LA is a contender. I can't imagine they're going to try and win with Korpisalo, who is not very good and going to become UFA. 

He's actually been very good.  Playing behind a weak defensive team is really not the same work for a goalie than playing behind a team that is strong defensively.  CBJ was particularly injured on D this season and had 13 different Ds play games for them this season - they had to go way down the depth chart at times.  Werenski, their best D, had a season ending injury already mid-November.

 

Korpisalo's stats per Sportlogiq's tracking technology:

 

 

 

 

[Kobayashi Maru]

I'm fully in the camp of trading Miller and Boeser so we can scale our young prospect and picks (Need organizational depth to try and make a proper go of it), but Demko is the one that is the most iffy.  We know that we need a strong goalie that can steal games and he will be that again next year most likely. 

 

I'd like to keep bringing back packages of picks and prospects, but the goalie position is a tough one as Silovs is still years away.  Trading Demko and signing Jarry makes this work, but there is no guarantees in FA.  Little warry of this one unless someone overpays.

[wai_lai416]

3 hours ago, coho8888 said:

Stop gap UFA goalies?  Holtby and Halak didn't quite work out did they?

 

You seem to be so sure of yourself on Demko's medical condition, do you have info that we don't?

 

I keep hearing people wanting to trade everyone not named Petey or Hughes because they don't fit the age group when our team becomes competitive again.  Does anyone know how long this will take?  Or exactly when the window gets opened?  No one knows for sure because no two rebuild/retools are the same.  

 

We could win the lottery this year and pick Bedard and have one of the strongest center groups in the league.  add whatever Young RHD we get from the NYI's pick that's closer to being ready.  sign a couple cheaper free agent d's with value.  Get rid of Myers and manage OEL to get more out of him.  Have the team play with more structure and get Bubble Demko back and we could be competing in a couple years.  Makes any talk of age gaps moot.

 

Conversely, you gut the whole team leaving only Petey and Quinn.  Your picks take a lot longer to develop.  Your core gets older and may not want to be around.  What then?  

 

Worried about Demko's age when we start competing?  Goalies tend to have a longer shelf than skaters.  Tim Thomas won a Stanley Cup, Conn Smyth and Vezina at 37 years old.

 

Not saying Demko is Tim Thomas but just giving an example of that goalies are still productive past 30.

 

The only way I would trade Demko is if we know his injuries will affect the way he plays going forward or if he does not want to be here.

So how many Tim Thomas are out there? There are far more examples of goalies starting on declines when they hit 30 than there are tim Thomas. Need no look further than markstrom. Goalies have a longer shelf life than forwards? Ya as a backup maybe lol.. look at all the goalies 30 and above this year? Maybe a couple starter kuemper and maybe markstrom bob etc.. none of them are even in the top half of the league in stats in any category. And maybe a couple of the 30+ backup are having a decent year.. it’s also fact that most goalie coming back from significant injuries don’t last long in this league. Missing almost half the season is pretty significant including his off season surgery he already had. 

[wai_lai416]

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Y'all know LA just traded Quick for Korpisalo, right?

Nope I don’t look thru every single trade teams 24/7 on my phone like some of you. Depending on what they do with korpisalo and if they wait to see how he performs before re signing him. They might still revisit in the summer if korpisalo doesn’t get the job done

Edited March 1, 2023 by wai_lai416

[coho8888]

12 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

So how many Tim Thomas are out there? There are far more examples of goalies starting on declines when they hit 30 than there are tim Thomas. Need no look further than markstrom. Goalies have a longer shelf life than forwards? Ya as a backup maybe lol.. look at all the goalies 30 and above this year? Maybe a couple starter kuemper and maybe markstrom bob etc.. none of them are even in the top half of the league in stats in any category. And maybe a couple of the 30+ backup are having a decent year.. it’s also fact that most goalie coming back from significant injuries don’t last long in this league. Missing almost half the season is pretty significant including his off season surgery he already had. 

Just used him as an example.  Hasek says hi too.  Goalies take longer to stew in the minors.  We spent alot of time developing Demko.  Not going to let him go that easy unless he is damaged goods or he wants out.