[Trade] Red Wings trade Filip Hronek, 2023 4th-round pick to Canucks for conditional 2023 1st-round pick (NYI), 2023 2nd-round pick

[Ghostsof1915]

What's the status of Filip's injury?

[Gawdzukes]

33 minutes ago, Conscience said:

Bo has 8 points in 13 games which is on pace for 50 points. 
 

this was a good trade for us

 

31 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

You do realize that trades have to be fully analyzed over a long period of time right? For example, we didn't know Forsling to be such a terrible trade after a good few years.

What a childish approach. 13 games in and Bo is known for his attributes aside from counting stats like being the best face-off guy in the league on a defensive team. But hey let's judge him on his point totals 13 games in after losing Barzal. Whatever, but this is childish and pouty. Having said that the contract he got is not one I would have wanted so in that sense we got a decent return but like you said way to early to proclaim this a win.

[Gawdzukes]

4 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Next year's cap situation really hinges Poolman and Ferland staying on LTIR and whether Pearson is still on LTIR and trading Brock and at least one of Myers or OEL

If they cant, they may need to trade Garland which is unfortunate because he is outplaying Brock while earning 2m less.

My guess is worst case scenario is Garland and Myers traded.  Myers will cost a 4th to dump after his bonus is paid.

Best case scenario is OEL goes on LTIR and retires and we somehow trade Brock and we keep Myers for one more year until his contract runs out.

Yeah, it's really up in the air as to which players, or bad contracts they will be able to move, and what the price will be. I for one will be glad if Garland goes, he's too tiny and defensively poor to be effective in the top 6 or on the third line imo. Little guys need to be more dynamic than simply doing sinparamas all game. He's a waste of $5 mil in cap space imho.

[HKSR]

13 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Oh yeah me too 100% but it seems like we're still forcing Boeser in there. I've heard RT likes him but I don't know if that's true or it's just supreme pump and dump. We really could benefit from getting out of that contract.

Pump and dump makes sense to me.  I guess it depends on what the goal is here.

[Conscience]

2 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

You do realize that trades have to be fully analyzed over a long period of time right? For example, we didn't know Forsling to be such a terrible trade after a good few years.

Ya 8.5 mil for 8 years ( certainly a long period of time) sounds a lot better for a 60 point player. 
 

contracts, past performance , future potential and risk all at the time of trade are usually factored into players trade values. Some trades seem fair from the start but then potential or risk can take over.

I think its pretty safe to say canucks did well with horvats trade.

 

Forsling trade was bad right away

 

[Conscience]

13 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

What a childish approach. 13 games in and Bo is known for his attributes aside from counting stats like being the best face-off guy in the league on a defensive team. But hey let's judge him on his point totals 13 games in after losing Barzal. Whatever, but this is childish and pouty. Having said that the contract he got is not one I would have wanted so in that sense we got a decent return but like you said way to early to proclaim this a win.

Nobody said he doesn't provide things other than points. You attacked another poster because he said Bo has gone back to his 50-60 point self, and I posted the stats that said just that. 
 

Lets not pretend Bo is a steady 50 goal scorer just because he was on pace for it in a contract year. 
 

 

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I would go with Johansson, or even Juulsen, at this point. I think it would be a mistake to re-sign Bear. He's got flashes but his overall defensive game is very poor. Too many mistakes imo. However you do make a good point. We're between a rock and a hard place right now so it may be the best we got. Anything over league minimum and 1 year is a mistake though. 

 

If we truly are looking at competing/playoffs (not going happen realistically) we need to find a better player somewhere ... which shouldn't be hard really ... clearing the cap will be the hard part. Maybe Myers goes and we bring in two moderately priced guys with Schenn as a 7th d.

 

I think Bear makes sense if we can get him in the $1.5-$2 range as capable NHL level depth.

 

Much over that and yes, I'd be inclined to look elsewhere.

 

Move Myers after his bonus, bring back Schenn and Bear in the $1-2 range, hopefully land Livingstone and spend some of the cleared Myers money on a defensive left D.

 

Still need to find a long term Hughes partner, but that should be a sizeable improvement.

[The Lock]

18 minutes ago, Conscience said:

Ya 8.5 mil for 8 years ( certainly a long period of time) sounds a lot better for a 60 point player. 
 

contracts, past performance , future potential and risk all at the time of trade are usually factored into players trade values. Some trades seem fair from the start but then potential or risk can take over.

I think its pretty safe to say canucks did well with horvats trade.

 

Forsling trade was bad right away

 

Forsling was traded from us in 2015 and didn't even play an NHL game until a year later. He was never even an NHL regular until the 2020-21 season. Meanwhile, Clendening was a higher draft choice and had already had some games under his belt.

 

So, where exactly do you see the "right away" part with that? If you think about it, by the same logic as what you're saying about Horvat, we would have WON the Forsling trade since Clendening was playing on the team right away, similar to the 13 games you're comparing Horvat with now, but then obviously things shifted later on.

 

So I'd argue the Forsling trade actually contradicts what you're saying. It's a trade that looked like it could have worked for us at first and then aged horribly later on.

Edited March 6, 2023 by The Lock

[KoreanHockeyFan]

Mikheyev - Pettersson - Kuzmenko

Beauvillier - Miller - Boeser

Podkolzin - Karlsson - Garland

Hoglander - Aman - Kravtsov

Joshua/Studnicka 

 

Hughes - Livingstone? Johansson? 

OEL - Hronek

Wolanin - Myers

Brisebois/Bear

 

I honestly think our forward group has enough depth to be a competitive team. Still need 1 more RHD and perhaps 1 more LHD. Also need to get rid of at least 1 big forward contract. 

[Conscience]

7 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Forsling was traded from us in 2015 and didn't even play an NHL game until a year later. He was never even an NHL regular until the 2020-21 season. Meanwhile, Clendening was a higher draft choice and had already had some games under his belt.

 

So, where exactly do you see the "right away" part with that? If you think about it, by the same logic as what you're saying about Horvat, we would have WON the Forsling trade since Clendening was playing on the team right away, similar to the 13 games you're comparing Horvat with now, but then obviously things shifted later on.

 

So I'd argue the Forsling trade actually contradicts what you're saying. It's a trade that looked like it could have worked for us at first and then aged horribly later on.

You can go back and find the thread if youd like, it might help your memory. Forsling was a yound d with a big shot that was showing some good potential and we traded him for an older guy that could barely crack an nhl roster. Where is he now???
 

It doesn't contradict anything i said, i said potential and risk need to be considered. 

[The Lock]

16 minutes ago, Conscience said:

You can go back and find the thread if youd like, it might help your memory. Forsling was a yound d with a big shot that was showing some good potential and we traded him for an older guy that could barely crack an nhl roster. Where is he now???
 

It doesn't contradict anything i said, i said potential and risk need to be considered. 

I was in that thread thanks. There were mixed feelings about the trade depending on who you were. Some liked it because they liked Clendening. Others didn't like it because they liked what Forsling could potentially bring.

 

You have to understand, most of our later round picks were not working out. Gaudette would be drafted the following year. Hutton wasn't in the NHL yet. Other than Connaughton, who was traded, we literally hadn't had a later round pick work out since Mason Raymond... 10 years earlier.

 

So there's a bit of a refresher of the situation. Perhaps your opinion at the time was not in favour of the trade; however, you can only speak for yourself and it would be revisionist history to believe everyone had the same opinion you did. You talk about "right away", well right away at the time would have been January of 2015. Anything else that happened afterwards should NOT be considered part of that. What were people thinking at that moment in time?

 

So, my memory's perfectly fine thanks.

Edited March 6, 2023 by The Lock

[Gawdzukes]

30 minutes ago, Conscience said:

Nobody said he doesn't provide things other than points. You attacked another poster because he said Bo has gone back to his 50-60 point self, and I posted the stats that said just that. 
 

Lets not pretend Bo is a steady 50 goal scorer just because he was on pace for it in a contract year. 
 

 

Sure, but shitting on Bo because he's not a 50 goal guy is just being a complete child and a whiner. He's not even on our team ... no need to dump on a guy that gave his heart to our team for as long as he did. Alf is littering the board with his garbage hate posts of Bo. It doesn't make Bo a horrible player because he got an awesome contract. He went out and played his ass off, he deserved it as much as any other pending UFA.

 

In my opinion it's also quite obvious he worked his ass off to improve his shot, his tips, and net front play in the off-season. All things that would make him an even more prolific playoff performer. Just because he got paid and performed when the time was right doesn't make him some horrible human being or hockey player.

[Conscience]

9 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I was in that thread thanks. There were mixed feelings about the trade depending on who you were. Some liked it because they liked Clendening. Others didn't like it because they liked what Forsling could potentially bring.

 

You have to understand, most of our later round picks were not working out. Gaudette would be drafted the following year. Hutton wasn't in the NHL yet. Other than Connaughton, who was traded, we literally hadn't had a later round pick work out since Mason Raymond... 10 years earlier.

 

So there's a bit of a refresher of the situation. Perhaps your opinion at the time was not in favour of the trade; however, you can only speak for yourself. You talk about "right away", well right away at the time would have been January of 2015. Anything else that happened afterwards should NOT be considered part of that. What were people thinking at that moment in time?

 

So, my memory's perfectly fine thanks.

Yep a lot of people didn't like it right away, maybe you were on the other side. Glad you got refreshed.

 

Anyways I like the whole Horvat trade, just wish some more salary could have been shed at the deadline to allow for more improvements in the summer. 

[Gawdzukes]

33 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think Bear makes sense if we can get him in the $1.5-$2 range as capable NHL level depth.

 

Much over that and yes, I'd be inclined to look elsewhere.

 

Move Myers after his bonus, bring back Schenn and Bear in the $1-2 range, hopefully land Livingstone and spend some of the cleared Myers money on a defensive left D.

 

Still need to find a long term Hughes partner, but that should be a sizeable improvement.

Yeah I can live with all that. All things being equal though I'd rather try someone else besides Bear. Ultimately I think he's a replacement level guy. However, he seems to like Van and maybe he puts in the work in the offseason to improve on his consistency and prove me wrong. When he's off he's Myers level ugly. I guess he's been lacking games so maybe that's the problem and it can be improved. I'd like to see us take a run a guy like Zack Whitecloud, or similar  from a cash strapped team.

[Conscience]

3 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Sure, but shitting on Bo because he's not a 50 goal guy is just being a complete child and a whiner. He's not even on our team ... no need to dump on a guy that gave his heart to our team for as long as he did. Alf is littering the board with his garbage hate posts of Bo. It doesn't make Bo a horrible player because he got an awesome contract. He went out and played his ass off, he deserved it as much as any other pending UFA.

 

In my opinion it's also quite obvious he worked his ass off to improve his shot, his tips, and net front play in the off-season. All things that would make him an even more prolific playoff performer. Just because he got paid and performed when the time was right doesn't make him some horrible human being or hockey player.

I don't disagree with ya just happy we moved on, avoided that contract and got a decent return that i think should improve our team. 

[The Lock]

6 minutes ago, Conscience said:

Yep a lot of people didn't like it right away, maybe you were on the other side. Glad you got refreshed.

 

Anyways I like the whole Horvat trade, just wish some more salary could have been shed at the deadline to allow for more improvements in the summer. 

I'm glad you got refreshed. Hopefully you see how it was a rather poor example.

 

Stay thirsty for knowledge away from revisionist history my friend.

Edited March 6, 2023 by The Lock

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, Conscience said:

I don't disagree with ya just happy we moved on, avoided that contract and got a decent return that i think should improve our team. 

Yeah , the return is looking good and I agree with your sentiment. I mean most us thought that Beuvillier was a cash dump. I am on record for liking him right off the bat though. Hopefully Raty improves ... I think he will as he is incredibly young and was trending in the right direction before the trade for sure. I think he just needs to get settled and an entire off season with little pressure should bode well for us.

[The Lock]

3 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Yeah , the return is looking good and I agree with your sentiment. I mean most us thought that Beuvillier was a cash dump. I am on record for liking him right off the bat though. Hopefully Raty improves ... I think he will as he is incredibly young and was trending in the right direction before the trade for sure. I think he just needs to get settled and an entire off season with little pressure should bode well for us.

Yeah, the one I like is Raty. He's one we won't know for a while though probably. He's a good project, but he's still a project at the same time.

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Yeah I can live with all that. All things being equal though I'd rather try someone else besides Bear. Ultimately I think he's a replacement level guy. However, he seems to like Van and maybe he puts in the work in the offseason to improve on his consistency and prove me wrong. When he's off he's Myers level ugly. I guess he's been lacking games so maybe that's the problem and it can be improved. I'd like to see us take a run a guy like Zack Whitecloud, or similar  from a cash strapped team.

Unfortunately we're a cap strapped team at present 

[Claiborne55]

1 hour ago, Jester13 said:

I think he had some multi-point games early on with them as well. His offence has dried up quite a lot in the last handful of games. Definitely a great trade for us. It wouldn't surprise me if JRs early evaluation of this team saw Bo as the weak link, in the sense that he's not a playmaker but rather a finisher, and we can put a monkey with Petey or Miller and they'll produce. P&M drive their lines and the PP, so Bo was the easiest one to replace out of the core. 

 

Bo and a 2nd

 

for 

Hronek, Beau, Raty, and a 4th

 

One of the best trades in franchise history, on paper. Time will tell. 

What a Joke...only if you are the one writing history...     

 

It was Bo, Islanders 1st and a Canucks 2nd...

 

Nice Try