[PGT] Trade Day Edition

[coolboarder]

8 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

Some key takeaways from PA media availability:

• Our target team identity is to be a fast team
• That requires the D to get the puck to our forwards, preferably on the tape
• Hughes & Hronek is a unique 1-2 punch 
• PA is comfortable with his options to clear cap, internally and externally
• I interpreted that to mean either buyouts or trade options
• wonder if he has a handshake agreement on offloading Myers or a winger in the off-season 

My guess is that they are targeting OEL as a buyout without losing anything except a long term cap hit until 2031 but we get the most saving at just $146,667 counted for 2023-24, $2.3 m for 2024-25 season and 4.7m for 2025-27 season.  There is no saving like this if we choose to buy out OEL after this buyout window in 2024.  The cost of buying OEL out will lessen in last 4 years of buyout cap hit of just 2.1 million dollars.  

 

This is the only move that I'm willing to take just to get in cap compliant without them taking hostage of losing our own draft picks for future trade to free up some cap space and my guess is that we'll have a very quiet off-season with no dead money after all from Holtby, Virtenan buyout and OEL's contract will become a dead money for 8 years.  I think we don't really need OEL as he has lost a step as proven from a few years of play.   The team is much better without OEL and it's very clear as a day.  I think that it is the right time to do it and we'll have time to figure out what to do in 2024 off-season to be a cap complaint.   The reason we need to do it is because if we win draft lottery land Berard then we need to unload OEL anyways to make room.  

[chon derry]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Allvin has said they don’t want to rebuild. Guys on 650 just had him on. It’s clear our owner won’t rebuild. He hires management to do a continuous build/retool thing. That’s his philosophy. We moved Bo for futures but the first was quickly flipped for a proven NHL D to fill a role we needed. 
Any Miller offer had to include either a younger centre to fill Miller’s minutes or enough draft capital (like the Bo trade did) to be used to get that younger centre. Allvin must have believed the Pit offer didn’t provide the needed drat capital to get the centre he wanted. 

To Add to that the 1 rd pick they gave up for hronek was at 18 oa. And they weren’t sold on the players available in that range otherwise they would have kept the pick. Further pitts 1st rd pick at this moment sits further back at 19 oa. And the second 1st rd pick in next years puts it even further down the development path. Btw there’s only 1 dman avail in the middle of the 1 st rd. And the Russian kid ( gulyeyev) 

[eeeeergh]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Allvin has said they don’t want to rebuild. Guys on 650 just had him on. It’s clear our owner won’t rebuild. He hires management to do a continuous build/retool thing. That’s his philosophy. We moved Bo for futures but the first was quickly flipped for a proven NHL D to fill a role we needed. 
Any Miller offer had to include either a younger centre to fill Miller’s minutes or enough draft capital (like the Bo trade did) to be used to get that younger centre. Allvin must have believed the Pit offer didn’t provide the needed drat capital to get the centre he wanted. 

Im actually okay with it.

 

I think a lot of people here dont realize that tearing it down to the studs is no guarantee of success. A ton of teams have torn it down to the studs multiple times and won nothing. 

 

The best course of action is probably way more nuanced than "just sell everything and get draft picks" vs "our mgmnt team is just pulling a Benning".

 

If we examine what theyve actually done - it fits neither of those two molds. Benning traded our own draft capital without getting any picks back, and managed assets terribly. He let valuable assets walk for nothing, and overpaid for assets that could have been had for free, or worse, for assets that we really dont even want. 

 

Look at our management teams track record:

 

Which, of our own assets, have they wasted? Bo? Bo and a 2nd was effectively traded for Hronek, Beau, Raty, and a 4th. Id say thats a pretty solid return for an expiring UFA that someone was going to way overpay. In fact, that package we got in return makes us better in the short, mid, and long term vs keeping Bo. 

 

They made sure that Schenn returned a pick, Motte returned a pick, heck they even managed to get a pick back for Lazar who they paid nothing for.

 

And look at all the assets they were able to accumulate for low to no cost:

- Mikheyev (top 6 forward)

- Kuzmenko (top LINE forward)

- Kravtsov

- Bloom

- Filip Johansson

- Bear (middle pairing RHD who can play in the top 4 when needed)

 

People forget this management team was dealt a HORRIBLE hand. OEL, Garland, Myers, etc. were not their fault. People fault them for Boeser? Well hes hardly a problem, he wasnt signed long term, and should give us some kind of return. They managed to sign replacements for Boeser and Garland, BETTER ones (mikheyev and kuzmenko) for no cost, so even if we have to let Boeser and Garland go for nothing, it really isnt a condemnation of Allvin and co.

 

Honestly I think people just need to take a step back and look at the whole picture. We have Petey and Hughes and Demko. Miller was the better player to keep if were planning on competing in 3-4 years. He's frankly a more complete player than Bo. And trading Bo somehow got us a better return than Miller would have got us.

 

Tearing it down to the studs would be a hairbrained move when you have petey/hughes/demko on your team. Thats a trio that you try to build a winner around, not sell. 

 

/ end rant

[Jaimito]

Radio interview

 

[Canucks Central] Patrik Allvin on clearing cap, buyouts, and the Trade Deadline action #canucksCentral 

https://podcastaddict.com/episode/154051371 

[wai_lai416]

15 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Allvin has said they don’t want to rebuild. Guys on 650 just had him on. It’s clear our owner won’t rebuild. He hires management to do a continuous build/retool thing. That’s his philosophy. We moved Bo for futures but the first was quickly flipped for a proven NHL D to fill a role we needed. 
Any Miller offer had to include either a younger centre to fill Miller’s minutes or enough draft capital (like the Bo trade did) to be used to get that younger centre. Allvin must have believed the Pit offer didn’t provide the needed drat capital to get the centre he wanted. 

a proven NHL D that can't play defence just like all our current D? seems to fit in perfectly

[Jaimito]

You wonder how the fortunes and trajectory of this team would change if they draft top 3 this season 

[Barnstorm]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

a proven NHL D that can't play defence just like all our current D? seems to fit in perfectly

Undisclosed injuries including possible recent concussion to boot. Seems like a pattern with this team 

[fanfor42]

The best thing to come out of the trade deadline is clarity.

 

This is a retool

 

This is not a rebuild.

 

Thankfully that should stop the endless rebuild commentary in the media cuz it just ain't happening.  Like it or not for the next 3 years or so this management group is doing a retool.

 

I'm ok with it.  I am sick of the negativity in our amateurish media, so I want to see what management  can do to build around Petey Hughes and Demko.

[wai_lai416]

1 minute ago, Barnstorm said:

Undisclosed injuries including possible recent concussion to boot. Seems like a pattern with this team 

i don't hate the player it's just he's not the type of defenceman we should be looking for? an offensive minded defenceman that'll take chances on offence at the risk of being caught on defence.. so now we still need a guy to play with hughes.. on top we need a LHD that can play with Hronek lol literally creating more problems on defence.

[eeeeergh]

4 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

The best thing to come out of the trade deadline is clarity.

 

This is a retool

 

This is not a rebuild.

 

Thankfully that should stop the endless rebuild commentary in the media cuz it just ain't happening.  Like it or not for the next 3 years or so this management group is doing a retool.

 

I'm ok with it.  I am sick of the negativity in our amateurish media, so I want to see what management  can do to build around Petey Hughes and Demko.

Drance is the worst of them. His opinion lacks nuance entirely and he peddles this "tear it all down" philosophy as if its a surefire way to build a contender. Most teams that do it never go anywhere and end up a joke for years.

 

Imagine wasting QH/TD/EP in their prime. Smh. 

[Moe Knows]

8 minutes ago, chon derry said:

To Add to that the 1 rd pick they gave up for hronek was at 18 oa. And they weren’t sold on the players available in that range otherwise they would have kept the pick. Further pitts 1st rd pick at this moment sits further back at 19 oa. And the second 1st rd pick in next years puts it even further down the development path. Btw there’s only 1 dman avail in the middle of the 1 st rd. And the Russian kid ( gulyeyev) 

Hmmm last I looked the NYI pick was at 15 and think it coud well drop to 13 or 14.. I think ther's more d prospects mid round ...Pellikka, and Reinbacher along with the Russian kid you mentioned

[Nucker 67]

Trying to look at this 6 months from now. Canucks will be getting ready to hold training camp - run by Tocchet, Gonchar and Foote

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Beauvillier

Podkolzin - Miller -  Kravtsov

Mikheyev - ? - Garland

Joshua - Raty - Studnicka

Pearson*

 

Hughes - ?

? - Hronek

OEL - Bear

Dermott*

 

Trade: Boeser, Rathbone, Hoglander and Myers. Bear might have to do as Quinn's D-partner.

 

They're not that far off from competing IMO. This was just a lousy year from training camp, on. Tocchet will have them prepared next season. Maybe the Canucks draft a really good player as well. Canucks have a chance to get (RD) Jake Livingstone, and isn't (RD) Filip Johansson ready to play in Abby next year? 

[Jaimito]

1 minute ago, eeeeergh said:

Drance is the worst of them. His opinion lacks nuance entirely and he peddles this "tear it all down" philosophy as if its a surefire way to build a contender. Most teams that do it never go anywhere and end up a joke for years.

 

Imagine wasting QH/TD/EP in their prime. Smh. 

He's annoying, but at least he is consistent with his views. 

[chon derry]

2 minutes ago, Moe Knows said:

Hmmm last I looked the NYI pick was at 15 and think it coud well drop to 13 or 14.. I think ther's more d prospects mid round ...Pellikka, and Reinbacher along with the Russian kid you mentioned

Rienbachers dropped to 26 or 27 last I looked. 

[-Moose]

21 minutes ago, coolboarder said:

My guess is that they are targeting OEL as a buyout without losing anything except a long term cap hit until 2031 but we get the most saving at just $146,667 counted for 2023-24, $2.3 m for 2024-25 season and 4.7m for 2025-27 season.  There is no saving like this if we choose to buy out OEL after this buyout window in 2024.  The cost of buying OEL out will lessen in last 4 years of buyout cap hit of just 2.1 million dollars.  

 

This is the only move that I'm willing to take just to get in cap compliant without them taking hostage of losing our own draft picks for future trade to free up some cap space and my guess is that we'll have a very quiet off-season with no dead money after all from Holtby, Virtenan buyout and OEL's contract will become a dead money for 8 years.  I think we don't really need OEL as he has lost a step as proven from a few years of play.   The team is much better without OEL and it's very clear as a day.  I think that it is the right time to do it and we'll have time to figure out what to do in 2024 off-season to be a cap complaint.   The reason we need to do it is because if we win draft lottery land Berard then we need to unload OEL anyways to make room.  

Benning really saved his worst move for last. That OEL trade has completely f**ked us

[eeeeergh]

2 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

He's annoying, but at least he is consistent with his views. 

I find the consistent dedication to verbal doodoo to be very annoying

[BPA]

22 minutes ago, coolboarder said:

My guess is that they are targeting OEL as a buyout without losing anything except a long term cap hit until 2031 but we get the most saving at just $146,667 counted for 2023-24, $2.3 m for 2024-25 season and 4.7m for 2025-27 season.  There is no saving like this if we choose to buy out OEL after this buyout window in 2024.  The cost of buying OEL out will lessen in last 4 years of buyout cap hit of just 2.1 million dollars.  

 

This is the only move that I'm willing to take just to get in cap compliant without them taking hostage of losing our own draft picks for future trade to free up some cap space and my guess is that we'll have a very quiet off-season with no dead money after all from Holtby, Virtenan buyout and OEL's contract will become a dead money for 8 years.  I think we don't really need OEL as he has lost a step as proven from a few years of play.   The team is much better without OEL and it's very clear as a day.  I think that it is the right time to do it and we'll have time to figure out what to do in 2024 off-season to be a cap complaint.   The reason we need to do it is because if we win draft lottery land Berard then we need to unload OEL anyways to make room.  

Yup.

 

I think they will buyout OEL.  Canucks backed themselves into a corner.  Now they have to move contracts in the summer to get under the cap while also improving the team to make the playoffs.  Because that’s the goal…make the playoffs.

[eeeeergh]

4 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Trying to look at this 6 months from now. Canucks will be getting ready to hold training camp - run by Tocchet, Gonchar and Foote

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Beauvillier

Podkolzin - Miller -  Kravtsov

Mikheyev - ? - Garland

Joshua - Raty - Studnicka

Pearson*

 

Hughes - ?

? - Hronek

OEL - Bear

Dermott*

 

Trade: Boeser, Rathbone, Hoglander and Myers. Bear might have to do as Quinn's D-partner.

 

They're not that far off from competing IMO. This was just a lousy year from training camp, on. Tocchet will have them prepared next season. Maybe the Canucks draft a really good player as well. Canucks have a chance to get (RD) Jake Livingstone, and isn't (RD) Filip Johansson ready to play in Abby next year? 

FJ has been on Frolunda's top pairing, and by fair their best defenseman. Pretty impressive for a 22 year old in the SHL. my guess is he'll make a good case for a spot with the big team and skip abby entirely. Probably our 3RD. 

 

 

[BertaNuck]

Nobody should be suprised by the moves, the plan is and always has been to be competitive and make the playoffs, I expect some draft day voodoo to clear cap and to be very active in free agency 

[Maniwaki Canuck]

5 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Drance is the worst of them. His opinion lacks nuance entirely and he peddles this "tear it all down" philosophy as if its a surefire way to build a contender. Most teams that do it never go anywhere and end up a joke for years.

 

Imagine wasting QH/TD/EP in their prime. Smh. 

Totally.  And he's on record advocating the accumulation of draft picks as currency to get the players we need, then reverses course when management does exactly that.  Freaks out about missing the window with Petey and Hughes, then loses his sh!t when we try to plug some holes around them.  All at full volume and with utter disregard for how he contradicts himself.  But it works:  look at all the negative nellies here, it's like he has a direct line to their brains.