#40 and #43? why not?

[LTC123]

Why not try to get the best players available to play with Quinn and Pety?  They want to win.  They want to win now.  They're one of the best two in the game today.   Let's load them up and give them a shot.  If not, they'll likely walk anyway. 

 

There is no "one" way to build a cup team.   Are we three pieces away?  For sure we are!  How do we get them?   That's above our paygrade.

 

 

[Alflives]

That’s how our management sees it too. (Not that they have a choice, with this owner.)

We have:

Demko - Elite goalie who can steal games and series.

Petey - elite 200 foot centre.

Hughes - generational number one D.

 

And they are all young. 10 year window with them. 

[Nucker 67]

I agree, as much as I want the Canucks to get Bedard like so many others, got to be realistic. Even losing the rest of the games won't get VAN Bedard or even guarantee a Top 3. It'll take some serious luck from the lottery. My guess is Bedard goes to Bettman's pet project in the desert. But you never know, VAN has a decent chance.

 

Now that the TDL is over, and we still have Boeser, Garland and Miller, the Canucks won't be as bad as expected. In fact, they got better. Playoffs? Nope. This is about putting together next year's team. Petey and Hughes deserve a good team around them. I love Canucks wins and seeing the team happy. I'll cheer for them to win games and then ty to channel all of my positive energy on Draft Lotto Day.  

[EdgarM]

Although I am not a supporter of doing whatever the individual players wants, I do believe that building around Hughes, Demko and Petey is the right decision. People talk about drafting and then building around them, well that is what the they are doing right now. We drafted a 1C, 1D and a 1G. As we move along, it should be easier to accumulate the supporting pieces. 

I would say that the other elusive top 4 RHD is going to be the toughest to acquire moving forward. 

I do like that the players they are accumulating are young, so that they can grow and gain chemistry together. 

In the past, we threw in , usually an older player too, and expected them to have instant chemistry. 

I think we also tried to build around Bo and Boeser , which complicated things. 

In accumulating Hronek, it did seem to be a little premature, but I also think its a gamble if you "Wait" to nab a top 4 defenseman which you did not draft yourself, especially one that is cost controlled.

I was initially disappointed in not moving anyone at the trade deadline, but I realize that it will take some patience to be able to shed more cap space and having a young core gives us that flexibility .

The priority now should be building on the defensive side, penalty killers and big bodied checkers who can skate. Aman, Studnicka and Joshua show promise, hopefully they can improve as time goes on.

[wallstreetamigo]

You need cap and tradeable assets to get those players. And you need a scouting staff who can identify them. And you need to not pay top dollar on every contract you give out because you fear having to accept less for a replaceable player.

 

Should have used those picks to offload cap. 

[rawkdrummer]

1970... as time goes on.

[EdgarM]

2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

You need cap and tradeable assets to get those players. And you need a scouting staff who can identify them. And you need to not pay top dollar on every contract you give out because you fear having to accept less for a replaceable player.

 

Should have used those picks to offload cap. 

This new management group is still trying to get out from under what was left to them, not an easy feat. I don't think they want to make things worse and they can only do what ever the other teams are willing to give them. I have full confidence this group has more competence then the last. 

I don't see them paying "Top Dollar" although I think they miscalculated the worth of BB as he has not improved over the past while. Probably because of his multiple injuries. Hronek, Petey, Miller, Kuzmenko, Hughes, Beauvillier and Demko are all on reasonable contracts. It doesn't seem like they are handing out huge contracts and I do think if they cannot? The player will move on, ala Bo Horvat. 

I don't think they had anyone willing to take on our excess as they probably wanted us to give up more then what was reasonable. there is still time to do this.

I do agree with the scouting though, that hasn't seemed to be one of our strong points and maybe it should be looked at more closely.

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, EdgarM said:

This new management group is still trying to get out from under what was left to them, not an easy feat. I don't think they want to make things worse and they can only do what ever the other teams are willing to give them. I have full confidence this group has more competence then the last. 

I don't see them paying "Top Dollar" although I think they miscalculated the worth of BB as he has not improved over the past while. Probably because of his multiple injuries. Hronek, Petey, Miller, Kuzmenko, Hughes, Beauvillier and Demko are all on reasonable contracts. It doesn't seem like they are handing out huge contracts and I do think if they cannot? The player will move on, ala Bo Horvat. 

I don't think they had anyone willing to take on our excess as they probably wanted us to give up more then what was reasonable. there is still time to do this.

I do agree with the scouting though, that hasn't seemed to be one of our strong points and maybe it should be looked at more closely.

The new management group does have to deal with the Benning era mistakes. But they have made several of their own already. Boeser and Miller contracts are garbage. The only acceptable use of high picks this season in a trade should have been to clear OEL or possibly Myers. 
 

Trading Schenn, Stillman, Lazar? Who cares? Doesn’t move the needle that clearly needs to be moved. 

[MeanSeanBean]

2 hours ago, LTC123 said:

Why not try to get the best players available to play with Quinn and Pety?  They want to win.  They want to win now.  They're one of the best two in the game today.   Let's load them up and give them a shot.  If not, they'll likely walk anyway. 

 

There is no "one" way to build a cup team.   Are we three pieces away?  For sure we are!  How do we get them?   That's above our paygrade.

 

 

I think this is the exact mindset of the Canucks management. The problem is, many people just don't see it being a good bet to make. Are those players great, undoubtedly. But the other 80% of the team is no where even remotely close enough to compete with the elite teams in the league.

 

The biggest issue I see is the concept of getting from where we are now, to getting to a cup contending team. I have no idea how it's possible with the assets (or lack there of). Without an insane amount of luck and us winning 1st over all, I don't see any possible avenue of this team being a contender in the Demko window. 

 

At least if we sold Kuzmenko, Horvat, Miller ect for picks, you increase the chance of winning multiple lottery bets. You could miss, but you at least give yourself chances of drafting elite players who can provide surplus value. With the franchise right now, I just don't see where that value comes from. 

 

I'm legitimately concerned that the best the team will ever do in our Demko window is compete to get our of the first round of the playoffs. 

[T.Demko]

We need a #41 #42 and #44 to compete.  3 pieces away.

[EdgarM]

34 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

The new management group does have to deal with the Benning era mistakes. But they have made several of their own already. Boeser and Miller contracts are garbage. The only acceptable use of high picks this season in a trade should have been to clear OEL or possibly Myers. 
 

Trading Schenn, Stillman, Lazar? Who cares? Doesn’t move the needle that clearly needs to be moved. 

Boeser and Miller were already here, they tried to make the best of the situation. Both took less then what was expected. Bo didn't and so he was moved on. 

I don't think Boeser is their type of player but they are also not going to throw away a team asset.

I think they really want to move on from contracts such as OEL/Myers but again, they need to do what is best for the team so they will need to find the right deal to move on from these contracts. With having a young core, this gives us room to wait for the right time.

Schenn brought back an asset, the other two just didn't fit in the plan moving forward, that's Ok though, not everyone works out.

[Phil_314]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

That’s how our management sees it too. (Not that they have a choice, with this owner.)

We have:

Demko - Elite goalie who can steal games and series.

Petey - elite 200 foot centre.

Hughes - generational number one D.

 

And they are all young. 10 year window with them. 

I think you can add Hronek to that list, otherwise I'm not sure why management would give away so many assets for him.
Thankfully management (hopefully) realizes that Miller isn't in that leadership group, and now we'd be a couple overpriced contract (Boeser/ Garland/ Myers/ JT) moves away from optimizing the cap situation by a lot, so hopefully we can add that young C to be the #2 behind Petey (no I'm not into moving OEL).

[EdgarM]

42 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

I think this is the exact mindset of the Canucks management. The problem is, many people just don't see it being a good bet to make. Are those players great, undoubtedly. But the other 80% of the team is no where even remotely close enough to compete with the elite teams in the league.

 

The biggest issue I see is the concept of getting from where we are now, to getting to a cup contending team. I have no idea how it's possible with the assets (or lack there of). Without an insane amount of luck and us winning 1st over all, I don't see any possible avenue of this team being a contender in the Demko window. 

 

At least if we sold Kuzmenko, Horvat, Miller ect for picks, you increase the chance of winning multiple lottery bets. You could miss, but you at least give yourself chances of drafting elite players who can provide surplus value. With the franchise right now, I just don't see where that value comes from. 

 

I'm legitimately concerned that the best the team will ever do in our Demko window is compete to get our of the first round of the playoffs. 

Krejci/McAvoy/Ullmark drafted in 2004/16/12

Stamkos/Hedman/Vasilevsky drafted in 2008/09/12

McDavid/Draisaitl drafted in 2014-15

Pettersson/Hughes drafted in 2017-18  Demko drafted the year before 2016

 

Then: Podz,Hogs,Silovs  drafted in 2019

 

We have been lucky enough to acquire a 1C,1D and 1G. How many other "Top" teams can say that? Maybe just Tampa? 

How about Toronto? Edmonton? 

We are sitting pretty good IMO, and we have the luxury of time to build around these guys. In the short time that this group has been here, they have found a line mate for Petey and maybe Hughes too, at a reasonable cost I might add AND in the right age group.

They can continue to grow and develop for the next 3-4 years before we even consider ourselves in Oilers timeframes. 

I see maybe squeezing into the playoffs next year but then progressing from there to be a pretty good team in 2-3 years. In that time, we should have been able to rid ourselves of the unwanted contracts to gain cap space. Just in time to fine tune the team which has been built and would have been playing together for a few years together by then.

Drafting is not the answer EVERY TIME! Sometimes you need to be able to take advantage of situations as they arise. 

 

[Metal Face Doom]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

You need cap and tradeable assets to get those players. And you need a scouting staff who can identify them. And you need to not pay top dollar on every contract you give out because you fear having to accept less for a replaceable player.

 

Should have used those picks to offload cap. 

Unfortunately, Vancouver will likely have to overpay for a lot of players due to the high standard of living and the tax situation.  The US has a more flexible tax code as well as lower tax states than Canada in general.  

[MeanSeanBean]

21 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Krejci/McAvoy/Ullmark drafted in 2004/16/12

Stamkos/Hedman/Vasilevsky drafted in 2008/09/12

McDavid/Draisaitl drafted in 2014-15

Pettersson/Hughes drafted in 2017-18  Demko drafted the year before 2016

 

Then: Podz,Hogs,Silovs  drafted in 2019

 

We have been lucky enough to acquire a 1C,1D and 1G. How many other "Top" teams can say that? Maybe just Tampa? 

How about Toronto? Edmonton? 

We are sitting pretty good IMO, and we have the luxury of time to build around these guys. In the short time that this group has been here, they have found a line mate for Petey and maybe Hughes too, at a reasonable cost I might add AND in the right age group.

They can continue to grow and develop for the next 3-4 years before we even consider ourselves in Oilers timeframes. 

I see maybe squeezing into the playoffs next year but then progressing from there to be a pretty good team in 2-3 years. In that time, we should have been able to rid ourselves of the unwanted contracts to gain cap space. Just in time to fine tune the team which has been built and would have been playing together for a few years together by then.

Drafting is not the answer EVERY TIME! Sometimes you need to be able to take advantage of situations as they arise. 

 

You're right, drafting isn't the answer every time. The only chance you have of winning a cup, which is incredibly difficult to do, is accumulate many more wins then losses as a franchise. To do that you need as many advantages as possible. 

 

Canucks have an incredibly strong core of 3-5 players, I'd all that a huge win. Canucks have limited organizational depth (though it's getting better), we have no cap flexibility, we have a bottom of the league prospect, we don't have a good team currently. Those are all losses that will make it harder to win.

 

I want this franchise to succeed, despretly. I have literally prayed that we would win a cup before my old man passes, since he's been a fan since 1970. I don't see the sum of the parts over the last decade to be setting us up well for that. I've seen some good moves, and some bad moves from Alvin. My biggest concern is I see it growing increasingly unlikely I'll watch the Canucks win sitting with my old man. That's why some fans like myself are so frustrated.

[Provost]

The first step would have simply been to clear some cap space at the deadline when teams were making dumb decisions.  We have more cap committed for next season than any other team in the league…. For a bottom of the standings roster.

 

My main hope right now is that the league and PA agree to increase the cap artificially for next season. It is on pace for a $1 million raise this offseason and then over $5 million (maybe well over that) the year after.  That would let us move some pieces maybe and also fit some additions.

 

Quick fix type moves if that is the plan (and it appears to be):

 

-  Hockey trade… Miller for Parayko.  St. Louis can’t rebuild with all their long term contracts, Parayko has been struggling and been on the trade block and they can replace O’Reilly with Miller.  

-  Trade Myers after his bonus is paid, maybe need a very minor sweetener

- Trade Boeser and Garland, with some contract coming back for less money and term instead of 

- Use the Millstein connection to sign Gavrikov

 

That gives us an entirely rebuilt defence and a decent forward group with a big hole at 2C assuming we don’t get one back in the Boeser/Garland trade.  We can audition our bunch of young centres to see if any work out or sign a veteran bandaid player for 1-2 years.  By then we can hope the centre we get in this year’s draft is ready to play.

 

Defence:

Hughes-Parayko

Gavrikov-Hronek

OEL- Poolman/Schenn

 

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Provost

[EdgarM]

2 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

You're right, drafting isn't the answer every time. The only chance you have of winning a cup, which is incredibly difficult to do, is accumulate many more wins then losses as a franchise. To do that you need as many advantages as possible. 

 

Canucks have an incredibly strong core of 3-5 players, I'd all that a huge win. Canucks have limited organizational depth (though it's getting better), we have no cap flexibility, we have a bottom of the league prospect, we don't have a good team currently. Those are all losses that will make it harder to win.

 

I want this franchise to succeed, despretly. I have literally prayed that we would win a cup before my old man passes, since he's been a fan since 1970. I don't see the sum of the parts over the last decade to be setting us up well for that. I've seen some good moves, and some bad moves from Alvin. My biggest concern is I see it growing increasingly unlikely I'll watch the Canucks win sitting with my old man. That's why some fans like myself are so frustrated.

You are exactly right, but I wouldn't blame the current management on this but I do think they know this and are working on it, that's the key.

We had overpaid players and we had Bo who wanted to be overpaid. Yes we overpaid on Boeser but I think they were trying their best at asset management and they didn't want to lose him for nothing. I don't think they were able to assess him properly before they had to resign him either.

They have been working on the depth and prospects as they have been able to acquire some very promising prospects. I think they are doing a better job with the minor league and are making that a priority. 

Right now, we are overcoming major injuries and in the process of bringing in the right players and ridding ourselves of the wrong players. Not an easy feat. That and trying to show the right players how to become regular NHLer's. Remember we have not had an NHL coach since like 2013. Players like Boeser, Demko, Petey and Hughes have not seen one until BB came along. That should not be overlooked.

Development of these players may have been impacted because of this, especially Boeser, as he has been here the longest.

I foresee an improvement next year and I feel that the competence of management and coaches will gradually improve all aspects of this club moving forward. Good times are ahead. 

[Boudrias]

38 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Krejci/McAvoy/Ullmark drafted in 2004/16/12

Stamkos/Hedman/Vasilevsky drafted in 2008/09/12

McDavid/Draisaitl drafted in 2014-15

Pettersson/Hughes drafted in 2017-18  Demko drafted the year before 2016

 

Then: Podz,Hogs,Silovs  drafted in 2019

 

We have been lucky enough to acquire a 1C,1D and 1G. How many other "Top" teams can say that? Maybe just Tampa? 

How about Toronto? Edmonton? 

We are sitting pretty good IMO, and we have the luxury of time to build around these guys. In the short time that this group has been here, they have found a line mate for Petey and maybe Hughes too, at a reasonable cost I might add AND in the right age group.

They can continue to grow and develop for the next 3-4 years before we even consider ourselves in Oilers timeframes. 

I see maybe squeezing into the playoffs next year but then progressing from there to be a pretty good team in 2-3 years. In that time, we should have been able to rid ourselves of the unwanted contracts to gain cap space. Just in time to fine tune the team which has been built and would have been playing together for a few years together by then.

Drafting is not the answer EVERY TIME! Sometimes you need to be able to take advantage of situations as they arise. 

 

Not knowing whether the young Finnish kid we got in the Horvat trade will be a 2C or not Allvin might take a C at the draft if we don’t get Bedard. A 2C would be huge. Especially if the young D coming from Euro and NCAA establish themselves. 

[EdgarM]

32 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Not knowing whether the young Finnish kid we got in the Horvat trade will be a 2C or not Allvin might take a C at the draft if we don’t get Bedard. A 2C would be huge. Especially if the young D coming from Euro and NCAA establish themselves. 

I agree, and if that pans out, Miller can be moved to the wing. I like how they allowed themselves room for options, depending on what happens.

[tas]

5 hours ago, LTC123 said:

They're one of the best two in the game today.