[GDT] Vancouver Canucks vs Calgary Flames, 7PM PST (10PM EST) Saturday April 8, 2023, Rogers Arena ... Tame the Flame Game

[Rocket-68]

Worst defense pairings in the NHL according to @moneypuckdotcom. Highest goals against per 60 minutes played (minimum 300 minutes).

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Rocket-68

[ilduce39]

2 minutes ago, Rocket-68 said:

I don’t think anyone would dispute they’ve had a terrible year.  Especially compared to last season where they held their own as a solid shutdown pair.

 

If we’re looking for reasons to explain?  OEL looked like he never recovered from breaking his foot in the offseason and he played mostly before Demko / Tocchet stabilized the goaltending - which was literally league worst. Myers has looked shakier than last year but probably just his usual self.  

[Rocket-68]

2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I don’t think anyone would dispute they’ve had a terrible year.  Especially compared to last season where they held their own as a solid shutdown pair.

 

If we’re looking for reasons to explain?  OEL looked like he never recovered from breaking his foot in the offseason and he played mostly before Demko / Tocchet stabilized the goaltending - which was literally league worst. Myers has looked shakier than last year but probably just his usual self.  

I would give OEL another season (not much choice really) and hope Tocchet is right about his assessment that OEL will bounce back next year, but would really, really, really hope that management can figure out a move to relieve the Canucks of Myers services without a buyout (not much point in this really) or giving up a valuable asset to do so.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Rocket-68

[ilduce39]

Just now, Rocket-68 said:

I would give OEL another season (not much choice really) and hope Tocchet is right about his assessment that OEL will bounce back next year.

The nice thing is that both Hronek and Bear (mentioned to STH and at bare minimum should be qualified for one season - no pun intended) are both quite mobile and should complement OEL’s game.  I hope he takes a page out of Edler’s book and tries to get a little more rugged out there and pick his spots offensively.  
 

We’ll see though.  At least every year makes a buyout less painful. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Exactly. I’ve been fine with his game.

 

It’s not like he’s giving up egregious turnovers. Maybe he’s missing a couple assignments here or there but enough to get yelled at on the bench?

 

Last time I checked he’s a big reason we’re winning games lately.

I mean Tocchet was talking to him, wouldn't say he was yelling at him. 

[Rick_theRyper]

If the deal for two 1st round picks is still on the table for Miller you take that and run(summertime),  rebuild slash ride out Myers contract, get creative with buying out OEL and gain those extra two 1st's...(unless 1 is moved to unload OEL)  One more year of a top pick most likely but have the cap to ice a better defensive unit. Maybe Boeser plays into a offensive rental role next TDL. Move Garland if possible at the deadline also. Its just not enough wiggle room capwise to do much of anything, other than Miller nobody is taking these guys this summer. Have to pray to jebus the above mentioned guys perform better next year. It's crazy Garland was not long ago a very movable player. Just not worth his contract. Same as Boeser.. it's gonna hurt our potential if these guys don't step it up next year and we have to buy everyone out or trade picks to move them.. but I just don't see this summer the one to do that. We aren't competitive enough to be trading futures away to compete now. If we can lock Petey up after next year long term then start pulling triggers! 

[JamesB]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

The trading Myers after his bonus is paid plan won’t work.

 

His bonus is not paid out until September. Teams will be done spending and building their rosters then and focusing on training camp.
 

...

I don't think the bolded statement is correct. I believe that bonuses are paid on July 1 of the contract year. Myers can be traded anytime after July 1 and the acquiring team will only have to pay 1 million in actual money while getting credit for his $6 million cap hit. EDIT: [I was incorrect. Apparently, Myers negotiated a Sept. 1 bonus payment date when he originally signed with the Canucks. Another mess up by Benning.]

 

Myers has already submitted his 10-team no-trade list. That leaves 21 other teams. Not sure if that includes any teams looking for help to reach the cap floor, but it probably includes at lest one or two teams that care enough about actual money to find Myers attractive at an actual cost of only 1 million.

 

Also, Myers could of course be asked to waive. There is a realistic chance he might not be in the top 6 next year if he stays and he might be willing to waive to go somewhere where he would be in the top 6 or top 4 like Arizona or Chicago.

 

I am not saying that trading Myers is a slam-dunk but I think it is better than 50-50.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by JamesB

[Gawdzukes]

16 minutes ago, Rocket-68 said:

I asked a question earlier about going to a team saying "here is $5M and Meyers for <insert adequate return>". Was advised that (1) the bonus is not due until September which complicates a trade in July and (2) NHLPA may have something to say about this.

 

However, would it be possible to have an "agreement" with a team in July saying "look, let's put a pin in this until September but we will pay his bonus and then you give us <insert adequate return> and we flip you the Chaos Giraffe then" ?

I'm pretty sure all that the money swapping is illegal ... but yeah who knows maybe a handshake agreement gets done with old vet JR. I also wouldn't put say it's impossible to move him after Sept 15th either. 1 mil in salary for an expiring Myers is pretty risk free. It's kind of a pickle though and I would plan on him being here but lately management has shown they can be pretty aggressive. Our biggest problem could be signing Myers replacement during UFA for $3-$5 mil before being able to trade Myers. Definitely weakens our already weak bargaining position and it's a risky play all around.

[DeNiro]

8 minutes ago, JamesB said:

I don't think the bolded statement is correct. I believe that bonuses are paid on July 1 of the contract year. Myers can be traded anytime after July 1 and the acquiring team will only have to pay 1 million in actual money while getting credit for his $6 million cap hit.

 

Myers has already submitted his 10-team no-trade list. That leaves 21 other teams. Not sure if that includes any teams looking for help to reach the cap floor, but it probably includes at lest one or two teams that care enough about actual money to find Myers attractive at an actual cost of only 1 million.

 

Also, Myers could of course be asked to waive. There is a realistic chance he might not be in the top 6 next year if he stays and he might be willing to waive to go somewhere where he would be in the top 6 or top 4 like Arizona or Chicago.

 

I am not saying that trading Myers is a slam-dunk but I think it is better than 50-50.

 

 

Already confirmed that the bonus doesn’t get paid till September.

 

A new list is submitted every season.

 

Myers and his agent hold all the cards as he could add any team with cap space to his 10 team no trade list.

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by DeNiro

[JamesB]

10 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

The nice thing is that both Hronek and Bear (mentioned to STH and at bare minimum should be qualified for one season - no pun intended) are both quite mobile and should complement OEL’s game.  I hope he takes a page out of Edler’s book and tries to get a little more rugged out there and pick his spots offensively.  
 

We’ll see though.  At least every year makes a buyout less painful. 

There is pretty general agreement that:

 

1. OEL-Myers were bad this year.

2. OEL, at a minimum, missed a summer of training due to his injury at last  year's world championships and likely was hampered by that injury to start the season.

3. OEL needs to re-invent his game about the same way Edler did at about the same age. 

 

I would add:

 

4. The Canucks do not have enough cap room to retain Myers and OEL and do anything helpful in UFA season. I think they probably will manage to trade Myers. If not, they may have buy out OEL even though they would probably prefer to retain him if they can do so while staying under the cap

[DeNiro]

14 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I mean Tocchet was talking to him, wouldn't say he was yelling at him. 

That was more than talking to him. 
 

Kuz also didn’t even look over at him once. At the end Tocchett hit him on the shoulder. And it didn’t look like it was for encouragement…

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by DeNiro

[JamesB]

5 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Already confirmed that the bonus doesn’t get paid till September.

 

A new list is submitted every season.

 

Myers and his agent hold all the cards as he could add any team with cap space to his 10 team no trade list.

 

You are right. Although bonuses are normally paid on July 1, it is allowable to negotiate a later date and when Myers signed his original deal the apparent bonus payment date was September 1. So, unless it has been renegotiated it is still Sept. 1. Just another example of how Benning messed up at every turn.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Rocket-68 said:

Worst defense pairings in the NHL according to @moneypuckdotcom. Highest goals against per 60 minutes played (minimum 300 minutes).

 

Just like Seider, Krug, and Faulk aren't bad d-men, neither is OEL. 

 

He's had a really bad year that only got worst when we started putting Martin and Delia out there night after night. 

 

Locking into an OEL buyout is like holding a stock and waiting until it's at the lowest value to sell/lock in. 

 

There's no positive value expectation to that move. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Already confirmed that the bonus doesn’t get paid till September.

 

A new list is submitted every season.

 

Myers and his agent hold all the cards as he could add any team with cap space to his 10 team no trade list.

 

Players with NTCs and NMCs get traded all the time. It's not impossible. 

[DeNiro]

3 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Players with NTCs and NMCs get traded all the time. It's not impossible. 

No but the Canucks are the ones in the desperate cap situation.
 

Any contender is not likely gonna be able to fit him in without retention.

 

Any team with lots of cap space is gonna ask for a premium to dump him. Not to mention he will probably have alot of those teams on his list.

 

He can definitely be traded but it won’t be nearly as easy as people think.

[grandmaster]

Just now, DeNiro said:

No but the Canucks are the ones in the desperate cap situation.
 

Any contender is not likely gonna be able to fit him in without retention.

 

Any team with lots of cap space is gonna ask for a premium to dump him. Not to mention he will probably have alot of those teams on his list.

 

He can definitely be traded but it won’t be nearly as easy as people think.

You ask me, Alvin, during his TDL presser, looked like he couldn’t contain his laughter when the media was concerned about the Cap next season. These guys have a few plans on how to deal with it. They probably have some GMs with offers on the table for later. 

[coolboarder]

18 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I'm pretty sure all that the money swapping is illegal ... but yeah who knows maybe a handshake agreement gets done with old vet JR. I also wouldn't put say it's impossible to move him after Sept 15th either. 1 mil in salary for an expiring Myers is pretty risk free. It's kind of a pickle though and I would plan on him being here but lately management has shown they can be pretty aggressive. Our biggest problem could be signing Myers replacement during UFA for $3-$5 mil before being able to trade Myers. Definitely weakens our already weak bargaining position and it's a risky play all around.

It doesn't stop them from trading at anytime even if bonus is paid or not and it's still the same cap hit for new team after that.  I suppose they could agree to a trade until bonus is paid to make it official but it will hamper the Canucks with 10% cap hit over the cap free agent shopping until that date if a team doesn't want to pay the bonus and the owner is looking to be a penny-pincher.  Whatever the team is still building, Myers is more likely to be better than any bottom 6 D from other team with cap room and OEL is a buyout candidates that will lift up all of cap pressure in the summer.  I do not think OEL will bounce back to his old self. and it has been years.  We keep on saying that in last few years and he hasn't proven that to us.  It is time to cut all losses.

[Angry Goose]

Im on board w Canucks playing the spoiler for the Flames

[Gawdzukes]

7 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

You ask me, Alvin, during his TDL presser, looked like he couldn’t contain his laughter when the media was concerned about the Cap next season. These guys have a few plans on how to deal with it. They probably have some GMs with offers on the table for later. 

That looked like a desperate attempt to seem like he wasn't concerned. Playing it up for the camera. I'm sure they have some plans but it might not be pretty and painless. There could be some jaw clenching for the fanbase depending on how they play it. Hopefully you're right though and and a couple simple moves like Boeser/Garland gets it done. Maybe they move on from Beuvillier, I think he's tradeable after his performance. 

 

Any word on Pearson anyone?

[DeNiro]

22 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

You ask me, Alvin, during his TDL presser, looked like he couldn’t contain his laughter when the media was concerned about the Cap next season. These guys have a few plans on how to deal with it. They probably have some GMs with offers on the table for later. 

They were also overconfident about being able to move contracts last offseason.

 

Less talk more action.