[ADSF] Boston Bruins (A1) vs. Florida Panthers (WC2) | Panthers win series 4-3

[JoGuitar]

Lol this is fun!

[Dr. Crossbar]

Hahaha ... Boston can dish it out but can't take it. Go Panthers ... it's your birthday!

[Jaimito]

Game 3 gonna be fun. 

[Chickenspear]

Haha, they just cut the rest of the game!

[poetica]

Boston never changes. The second things aren't going their way they turn into toddlers having a temper tantrum.

 

[canuckfromlangley]

The Boston Babies.

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

1 minute ago, -DLC- said:

Bertuzzi's such an ass.

He was just looking for someone to hug, that's a huge win for Fla 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

Just now, Chickenspear said:

Haha, they just cut the rest of the game!

Running out of players to play the game

[Ghostsof1915]

3 minutes ago, poetica said:

Boston never changes. The second things aren't going their way they turn into toddlers having a temper tantrum.

 

^ That's 90% of people who play golf.

[Chickenspear]

Just now, Ghostsof1915 said:

^ That's 90% of people who play golf.

Weed helps.

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

^ That's 90% of people who play golf.

Hehe Leafs 

[canuck73_3]

Just now, Chickenspear said:

Weed helps.

[Ghostsof1915]

Just now, Chickenspear said:

Weed helps.

Had a stroke. No weed.

I suppose I could get gummies.

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

26 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Had a stroke. No weed.

I suppose I could get gummies.

Too much gummies and you'd be like

[PhillipBlunt]

Suck it, Boston. Suck it!!!’

[Citizen Erased]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Kudos for Eric and Marc Staal still playing.

They take pride in what they do.

[AnthonyG]

9 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Kudos for Eric and Marc Staal still playing.

And Jordan too!

[iinatcc]

21 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

I appreciate the well written reply

 

 

Thanks

 

 

21 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

I appreciate the well written reply

 

1. I completely understand we've been talking about Boston declining for ages and it doesn't appear to have happened yet. Facts are...

 

That is Bostons top 5 scorers. 3 of those 5 scorers are going to be 35+ next season. It is a SIGNIFICANT drop off between Pastrnak and Marchand and a serious age gap between their 2nd and 3rd highest scorer and their 4th highest scorer. How do they plan on replacing 2 of their top C's which is a HUGE part of their success, plus their 114pts. In a few years, Marchand will be a) struggling to produce which is highly likely with age or b) Retiring.

 

Boston's time is coming to an end and there really isnt much in the way of talent in their system to take over.

 

As much as I'd love to see Boston decline (believe me I do), at this point I have to see it to believe it. I think folks in Sportsnet were thinking this season they would miss the playoffs. And it hasn't turned out that way.

 

Even if Pastrnak or Marchad decline the team still have youngish players that can fill the gap for a few more years. Debrusk has taken a huge step and McAvoy is an elite D-Man.

 

21 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

 

2. Yes Florida is hindered by that Bobcat contract. It's ugly and really hurting them during their window to win. I dont see them falling off anytime soon, they are in the middle of their window to win. This season was a rough one for them, considering what they did last year, to this year....

 

 

Well agreed there

 

21 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

 

3. Okay so overall team point totals are down. However from 2018-19 Vancouver has progressively put up more goals almost each and every single season

2018-19 225GF (25th)

2019-20 228GF (8th) - 69 game season (on pace for 270 goals)

2020-21 151GF (24th) - 56 games (221GF pace)

2021-22 249GF (18th) 

2022-23 276GF (13th)

What DID change was goaltending, it was an attrocity this season. Our goaltending killed our season in the first month. Not only that but it kept kicking us when we were down and the PK joined in and kept sh*t kicking the work our offence was doing. 

Vancouver is finding more and more ways to score goals, but our goaltending has been finding more and more ways to lose games all season. 

If you look at the games we played against all top teams, 90% of those games were within 1-2 goals. Not only that but we were almost .500 overall against top teams. Thats every single playoff team along with teams close to playoffs.

 

4. Look I get it, results ultimately do speak. But if you look at what we've accomplished since drafting Pettersson, 1 playoff appearance which I believe that they WOULD have made playoffs in the full season. PLUS we finally built around him in 5 years. There has been a ton of ground work laid in a very short time since 2017. Even if we put that to the side, did Vancouver win their play-in series and EARN a playoff spot? Yes. They did. They then smoked STL and went up against VGK, lost our #1 goalie, Toffoli and Myers were hurt. Myers did return and funny enough we had a winning record with with him in the lineup lol. 7-3 in playofffs. 2-2 vs VGK.

 

I can see where you get the Buffalo feeling, all that talent and nothing to show for it.... Buffalo however has not had goaltending, or a decent blueline with all that scoring up front.

They also have struggled to score the last 10 years, this year aside. Despite having the 3rd most goals for with 296, Buffalo also allowed 300 goals against. Its impossible to overcome poor goaltending. 

Their last 5 years of scoring totals

2018-19 226 (24th)

2019-20 195 (22nd)

2020-21 138 (28th)

2021-22 232 (23rd)

2022-23 296 (3rd) 

 

Buffalo missed by 1 point, technically 2 due to tiebreakers... but 1 more win, maybe 2-3 more saves and they are a playoff team. 

 

 

Well to your point in the end it's the ability to actually win games. The question of goaltending is that is the defense or goaltending that is the bigger issue. Demko could be average or be injured but if the Canucks were good they would have been to weather the storm until Demko comes back in top form. I remember that inaugural season when Vegas basically had to play their 3rd and 4th goalie while Marc- Andre Fleury was hurt for a couple of months. 

 

Goal scoring is good but, as what folks in Sportsnet said, the Canucks played a loose structureless game that benefits individual stats more than actually winning. 

 

The bubble season, It's hard to say the if Canucks would have made it in or not. They were not trending at the right direction before the pause though it's always possible the team would have made up for it the last 10+ games. But they were out of the playoff spot in points (not percentage) before the COVID pause. 

 

I forgot who said it about the Bubble (someone from Sportsnet 650), while the Canucks' playoff run at the bubble was great, it's really hard to make anything out of it. Reports about the Blues being the least motivated team to participate in the bubble was a factor (not the factor) and it was a miracle Canucks got Vegas to seven games. I forgot who said about the Canucks/Vegas series (i think it was either Tim & Sid or Steve Dangle) the Canucks had nothing left in that series and they were hanging by a threat because of Demko. So it all goes back to Goaltending, you don't apologize for great goaltending, but if the team needs elite goaltending to bail a team out, then it's not a very good team.

 

21 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

 

5. Okay so 6 years since the Nico Hischier era began.... But they've also spent 11 years outside the playoffs drafting higher than us on average. 4 top 5 picks including 2 1sts a 2nd and a 4OA. Also 2 more top 10 picks to add 6th and 7th OA.

NJD was loaded with talent and trade bait over the years. 

Adam Larsson selected 4th OA by NJD - 1 for 1 swap for Hall

 

NJD had PLENTY of assets to move and fast track a rebuild. Still they spent 11 years golfing.

 

NYR has also had 4 top 10 picks, they were also the beneficiary of Adam Fox refusing to sign in Calgary and walked his ass on over to NYR to sign where he wanted to play. So its not exactly a fair comparison when they were getting a free Norris winning dman and didnt have to waste a draft pick or trade. They also had Artemi Panarin walk up day 1 of free agency and sign a massive deal with NYR. Where did we get that kind of head start?? We just got Kuzmenko this year, but he is no Panarin. Trouba was another guy who turned his back on the organization that drafted him and forced a deal with NYR.

You're kind of ignoring the massive head starts these franchises had. We had to draft and develop our star players. NYR will ALWAYS  be a hotbed for UFA signings, its MSG, who doesnt want to play there. Its NYC.. Who the hell doesnt want to be a star in the big apple? (Which I feel Matthews will look to go there if they have cap room)

 

LAK has done a pretty good job at retooling, they still have Doughty and Kopitar playing at a very high level. They've also been fortunate enough to have assets to move and speed things up. This is what Canuck fans just do not seem to comprehend... Who the f*** did we have as valuable assets that were 1) not trade protected 2) had value?? Kesler was legitimately the only real trade piece we had that was of value, but he was disgruntled and kiboshed a trade to CHI (out of hatred for Chicago)

If Demko can start the god damn season on time, this is a playoff team 2 years in a row. But instead, his slow starts have really hurt us. Taking almost half a season to find his groove is unacceptable. Not only that, he went down with injury and Spencer Martin couldnt save a bloody beach ball. Our goalies had one of the worst if not the worst combined GSAA and sv%

 

6. COL had something we didnt.... Duchene and ROR as major trade chips, PLUS Landeskog was 2011.

Tyson Barrie was a 2009 draft pick that netted one of their most key pieces to their cup. Nazem Kadri. 

COL, LAK, NYR all these teams you mention have had valuable assets to move and continue to build on and around their new core. 

 

You fans seem to only look at results and not "how they got there" every cup winning team started nearly 10 years in the making. When you look at the drafting, the assets that were moved to acquire the pieces they needed.... Drafting a guy in 2009, trading him 10 years later, acquiring your 87pt 2/3C and going out and winning a cup.... Doesnt happen with out Kadri and Kadri doesnt happen without Barrie.

 

JT Miller/Horvat are/were that piece for us. We just landed ourselves a top 4RHD and a prospect plus a winger. Thats a huge addition all from 1 guy.

 

 

 

Variables always differ to a team's path to success (or even failure) while you are right to point the advantages of each of these teams I am sure there are variables to point out for the Canucks that would have evened the playing field. Remember New Jersey basically had to forfeit their early 1st round pick to a late one and it's not like the Ranger's Top 2 draft picks have been superstars either. And they gave up their 9th overall (Horvat) for Schneider (that lead to some temporary results but not a long term one for the Devils). 

 

As for the Canucks they did have assets Kesler may have only wanted to be traded to 2 team but it landed the organization Jared McCann who has 40 goals season and who Vancouver sold low for Gudbransson. And it's asset management like that drowned the Canucks more than anything. Sure Canucks didn't have a Duchene or Barrie to trade but Managment also sold low of Forsling and McCann as well as not trading Edler, Hamhuis, Vrbata, Ryan Miller,  etc. during the deadline. And trading away Hansen or Burrows to projects teams have gave up on. 

 

Ok most of these aren't blockbuster move or would have been but, to quote the media again, these resulted in death by a thousand cuts. 

 

As for Jersey taking 11 years. This is basically the timeline of Vancouver.

Jersey 11 years to get from Cup Finals -> Rebuild (getting Hischer in between ) -> Playoff Contention

It Mirrors the Canucks last 10 to 12 years. Cup Finals/Playoff team -> Rebuild/Retool (getting Pettersson in between ) -> Playoff Contention

 

Since you mentioned timing the Devils have basically taken advantage of their window of Hischer and Hughes starting this season. Canucks have not taken advantage of Pettersson and Hughes prime years and are even wasting it away. Pettersson is likely going to get a $10 Million to $12 Million contract. That's how much Canucks are getting for a #1 Center putting up 100 pts. The Devils have Hischer and Hughes at 16,2 Million combined, that is how much the Devils are paying for their top 2 centers where one is a PPG and the other had 99 pts 4 years in the league.

 

If anything the Devils shows what good cap management is while Pettersson (who I admit is better than both) is going to eat up more of the cap. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by iinatcc

[AnthonyG]

 

Once again, appreciate the well thought out reply. It's nice to actually get some intellectual rebuttals from someone and not just troll-like responses.

 

 

14 hours ago, iinatcc said:

As much as I'd love to see Boston decline (believe me I do), at this point I have to see it to believe it. I think folks in Sportsnet were thinking this season they would miss the playoffs. And it hasn't turned out that way.

 

Even if Pastrnak or Marchad decline the team still have youngish players that can fill the gap for a few more years. Debrusk has taken a huge step and McAvoy is an elite D-Man.

We are all in agreeance it seems like Boston is an ageless/timeless 7th wonder of the world with how long they've remain competitive. They have done a fantastic job staying highly competitive for sooo long. Part of which I believe is due to the fact they do not have any super-star contracts. Next year Pastrnak's deal kicks in and this will be the first shockwave sent through their cap world. When you have Marchand for under 6.5mil his entire career, Bergeron never higher than 7mil and Pastrnak under 6.5mil up until next year.... You're laughing at the rest of the league. The timing of those signings and when those guys really broke out, favoured Boston so heavily. 

The only real major contract they have is McAvoy and this was the first season of his new deal. Bergeron and Krejci came back and signed for under 4mil combined.... This is kind of why I dont necissarily want to win the Bedard sweepstakes... The kid will command (assuming he is the real deal) McDavid money in 3 years and that will dismantle an entire team. It will be so difficult to build around a contract that takes up 15-18% of the cap.

 

What has always made Boston such a strong team is their depth at C.... Next year they are going to be without 2 of their top 3Cs.... The possession game will disappear from them and they will find themselves chasing the puck a lot more. 

 

If Pastrnak declines and Marchand who is very likely to decline based on his age and the wear and tear on his body..... Who is to step up and take over the reins? Sure they have some "youngish" players that can fill the gap.... But they cannot replace the production at all. Boston is truly in going to be in a world of hurt, mark my words. They havent drafted enough talent in the last 6-8 years to transition into the new era seamlessly. They are going to hit a wall of growing pains. Same as Pittsburgh right now, they are closing in on the end of the Sid and Gino era and it looks bleak.... We just saw Pittsburgh fail to beat 2 bottom 5 teams in the last 2 games of the regular season to earn a playoff berth. Its going to be a huge drop off from the Sid and Gino era, I get the sense just by looking at Boston's system, there is going to be some pretty tough years ahead. Mind you I will give them the credit that they do have Pastrnak, McAvoy and Ullmark/Swayman. However one of Swayman or Ullmark are a cap casualty next season and will be moved for something significant. Swayman is 23 and an RFA and I would think they would move Ullmark to a team in search of a goalie who is cost controlled for at least a couple years... I don't see the logic in moving Swayman who is so much younger and also playing at a very high level. 

 

To me despite having those 3 guys being young and locked up for awhile.... I think the loss of Bergeron and Krejci are going to have a serious effect on Boston's overall game. Losing 2 C's especially a guy like Bergeron.... That is a devastating blow to any organization.

 

 

 

14 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Well to your point in the end it's the ability to actually win games. The question of goaltending is that is the defense or goaltending that is the bigger issue. Demko could be average or be injured but if the Canucks were good they would have been to weather the storm until Demko comes back in top form. I remember that inaugural season when Vegas basically had to play their 3rd and 4th goalie while Marc- Andre Fleury was hurt for a couple of months. 

 

Goal scoring is good but, as what folks in Sportsnet said, the Canucks played a loose structureless game that benefits individual stats more than actually winning. 

 

The bubble season, It's hard to say the if Canucks would have made it in or not. They were not trending at the right direction before the pause though it's always possible the team would have made up for it the last 10+ games. But they were out of the playoff spot in points (not percentage) before the COVID pause. 

 

I forgot who said it about the Bubble (someone from Sportsnet 650), while the Canucks' playoff run at the bubble was great, it's really hard to make anything out of it. Reports about the Blues being the least motivated team to participate in the bubble was a factor (not the factor) and it was a miracle Canucks got Vegas to seven games. I forgot who said about the Canucks/Vegas series (i think it was either Tim & Sid or Steve Dangle) the Canucks had nothing left in that series and they were hanging by a threat because of Demko. So it all goes back to Goaltending, you don't apologize for great goaltending, but if the team needs elite goaltending to bail a team out, then it's not a very good team.

Yes ultimately results speak, but I don't just look at results and say "well we lost thats that" or "we won we're so good" I always dive deep into the analytics and see how we achieved that win, wether we deserved it or not. Same goes for losses, I want to know just how bad were we that season etc. 

Demko has been slow to start for 2 consecutive seasons. It's kind of concerning to me, however I look at Pettersson and see that he was also slow to start for a couple years. The year he and Hughes held out and waited to sign their contracts, then the following season he was enjoying travelling and had a garbage start pointless in I think it was 24 of the first 40 games of the season last year? Then he caught fire..... This year, Pettersson learned from his off-season habits and he was early to camp, worked his ass off and came flying out of a f***ing cannon and never stopped producing all year. If Demko is a bit too lackadaisical in the off-season and it has resulted in his slow starts, perhaps he takes a page out of Petey's books and gets to work early in the summer and pushes himself even harder.

 

Despite the structureless system that people talk about with Van this season, our goalies ultimately let in 50 goals in the first 60 games of the season, that every other goalie around the league was stopping. So that to me was not structure or on defense. That is purely sh*t goaltending. By the end of the season we had -40GSAA in all situations. 1 bad goal every other game. Thats hard for a team to overcome on pretty much a nightly basis.

 

It also didnt help that our PK was historically sh*t and that is also attributed to how bad our goaltending was. 

 

I wouldnt say goal scoring is good "but".... That is the hardest part of finding success in this league as a team, finding ways to score. We saw our 3rd and 4th lines actually be the difference makers in games down the stretch. When Demko came back, we had a couple close scoring games against competitive teams and our 4th line pulled through and got us the win. Dries, Joshua, Aman.... These guys stepped up and that is something that bodes well for the future, if we can have some guys further down the lineup contributing when our top lines are struggling/being shut down.

 

We'll never know if the Canucks would have made the post season in a full season in 2019-20. But what we do know for a fact is when the season was on the line and we had a chance to make it into the playoffs, we won a best of 5 series to get into the post season. Toronto and Edmonton both failed to win a best of 5

The bubble season.... Our team was soooooooooooooooooo young and VGK was very experienced and full of players in their absolute prime. It was a good learning experience for our youth. That was Petterssons 2nd year, QH rookie season, Boeser's 3rd.... We were no match, but nonetheless we saw the potential in Demko on full display for 4 games, there were positives to draw from that 7 game series against VGK. 

 

Elite goaltending is not what you want to rely on, no. BUT.... Elite goaltending is what you need to win. It's rare to see poor goaltending win a Stanley cup. You need an Elite goalie to get you through a series at times. It all comes down to goaltending in the very end. Tim Thomas had 20.72GSAA.....TWENTY POINT SEVEN TWO GSAA in 2010-11, Roberto Luongo.... -.97GSAA

That was allllllllllllll goaltending.

 

 

I hope these past 2 starts to the season are not going to be an annual thing for Demko. 

 

 

14 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Variables always differ to a team's path to success (or even failure) while you are right to point the advantages of each of these teams I am sure there are variables to point out for the Canucks that would have evened the playing field. Remember New Jersey basically had to forfeit their early 1st round pick to a late one and it's not like the Ranger's Top 2 draft picks have been superstars either. And they gave up their 9th overall (Horvat) for Schneider (that lead to some temporary results but not a long term one for the Devils). 

Yea sure they had to drop in the draft. We also lost OJ to injuries right after being drafted. Not everything works out the way everyone would expect it. 

NJD did acquire a 26y/o elite goaltender, who ultimately fell a part after his hip surgery. Its unfortunate but they did get some use out of him.

NYR's top 2 picks havent exactly lived up to the hype, but RNH didnt really either....until now.... There is still plenty of time for Laffrienierre and Kaako... They also dont get favourable icetime either....13-15 mins TOI... Doesnt give them much opportunity to showcase their talent and put up points. Either way, those kids are still so young and they have 3-4 years before they hit their peak athletic prime.

 

14 hours ago, iinatcc said:

As for the Canucks they did have assets Kesler may have only wanted to be traded to 2 team but it landed the organization Jared McCann who has 40 goals season and who Vancouver sold low for Gudbransson. And it's asset management like that drowned the Canucks more than anything. Sure Canucks didn't have a Duchene or Barrie to trade but Managment also sold low of Forsling and McCann as well as not trading Edler, Hamhuis, Vrbata, Ryan Miller,  etc. during the deadline. And trading away Hansen or Burrows to projects teams have gave up on. 

 

Ok most of these aren't blockbuster move or would have been but, to quote the media again, these resulted in death by a thousand cuts. 

Kesler also held the keys to his own destination. Who knows what could have been the return from Chicago. Perhaps we would have landed a much bigger headstart on a rebuild.

Jared McCann was a cancer and it goes to show what his worth was by following his postage stamps. TOR paid a 7th to acquire him and then waived him goodbye to Seattle to protect someone else on their roster. That says quite a bit about the kid. The amount of teams he has played for in such a short time. 

Now you say we sold low on McCann for Gudbranson.... Gudbranson had a MONSTER season in FLA and took over as their top dman in the 6 game playoff stint. He was an absolute beast and I watched that series thinking holy f*** this dude is terrifying. Unfortunately he got here and missed 52 games in his first season, then 30 the next... Health just doesnt seem to be on our side in almost every trade we make. Someone told me there was a study done on players like Gudbranson and that they would go "extinct" in a few years (this was a few years ago).... Gudbranson just landed another 4x4. 

It sucks that trades dont always pan out. Nothing is ever a guarantee. There are trades all around the league throughout history where players going either way have opposite levels of success/failure.

 

Forsling for Clendenning was not sold low, the potential for Clendenning was so much higher and he was playing so much better at the time. If you go look at his stats, you start to see quite quickly why we went after him. Everyone can look at hindsight and win every argument after the fact... But at the time, the trade made a ton of sense and looked great for our future.

 

Edler refused to waive and that is well known

 

Hamhuis, Vrbata, Miller..... What value was there in 34-37 year old players? who's to say anyone wanted them? Hamhuis was also injured the year his contract was up, so I dont see many takers on a guy who missed 20+ games 2 seasons in a row.

 

Hansen, Burrows, Bieksa, you name it, they lasted at most 3 seasons after being traded... Hansen and Burrows were less than 1 season, so to take anything you can get, is better than nothing. 

Bieksa also turned into Gustavsson

Hansen into Goldobin, who was a very talented young player... a former 1st round 27th overall pick for a 33 y/o washed up Hansen... I'll take those odds every time. Hansen played 61 more games after being traded. Burrows played 91.

Burrows with 91 games left in the tank returned us another high prospect, that was then moved for another high end prospect in Linus Karlsson who has had 2 great seasons in the SEL and AHL.

We turned some nothings into some hopefully somethings. We did quite well considering the state that our "trade chips" were in at that point in their careers, the end of their roads.

 

 

Death by a thousand cuts was the failure of drafting and developing from 2005-2013 and selling the future for a chance to win a cup. Rightfully so. I do not blame Gillis for doing what he did, but ultimately this is the price you pay when you go all in. From 2005-2013 we had virtually no one to take over for the twins. If you look back at what kept us so competitive for so long, it was the seamless transition from the WCE to the Sedin era. as the WCE came to an end, the twins emerged after a few years of struggling and developing.

14 hours ago, iinatcc said:

As for Jersey taking 11 years. This is basically the timeline of Vancouver.

Jersey 11 years to get from Cup Finals -> Rebuild (getting Hischer in between ) -> Playoff Contention

It Mirrors the Canucks last 10 to 12 years. Cup Finals/Playoff team -> Rebuild/Retool (getting Pettersson in between ) -> Playoff Contention

 

Since you mentioned timing the Devils have basically taken advantage of their window of Hischer and Hughes starting this season. Canucks have not taken advantage of Pettersson and Hughes prime years and are even wasting it away. Pettersson is likely going to get a $10 Million to $12 Million contract. That's how much Canucks are getting for a #1 Center putting up 100 pts. The Devils have Hischer and Hughes at 16,2 Million combined, that is how much the Devils are paying for their top 2 centers where one is a PPG and the other had 99 pts 4 years in the league.

 

If anything the Devils shows what good cap management is while Pettersson (who I admit is better than both) is going to eat up more of the cap. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NJD got Hischier and Hughes to sign their 8 year deals before they broke out, they banked on both of them becoming star players. They took a huge risk and it paid off. We also signed Hughes to a very, VERY friendly deal, Pettersson took a bridge deal to help make the cap situation work. I hope he thinks team first when signing his next deal and takes a pay cut. 

Hischier was signed at the end of 2018-19 after putting up 17g 30a

Hughes was signed early in the 2021 season (November) after putting up 11g 20a in 56gp.... They banked on talent and it worked. Its not like they talked these 99pt players down from 10 mil and made them take a massive paycut, they offered them a contract well above what they had accomplished, got them to sign long term and hoped that all would go according to plan. So far it has, however they look clearly outmatched by NYR.... A first round appearance is great, but a first round exit is as good as missing the playoffs, actually worse because if you clearly aren't ready, you're now drafting in the middle to bottom half of the 1st.

 

JB did attempt to take advantage of EP and QH early on, had COVID not impacted the world and frozen the cap, we would have had an extra 4-8mil in 2020 to re-sign Tanev, Toffoli and Markstrom, we then could have turned and traded any of those mentioned players for picks/prospects to retool and really build a deep talent pool.

The cap was announced to rise to 84-88mil just weeks prior to COVID, JB acquired Toffoli, knowing the cap was going to rise, or so he thought.... 3 weeks later everything changed and that cost us 3 players that would have been assets, JB DID manage to replace them with fairly comparable options and saved 1.4mil in a frozen cap climate and was able to sign Petey and Hughes. He also did excellent with Demko, Horvat and Boeser in terms of RFA negotiations. Our RFA negotiations have gone nowhere near handing out crazy $ and term. Its been very reasonable $ given out and was careful with the term given out to Boeser and Bo. 

 

Yea you could say it was good cap management on NJDs behalf, but if Hischier or Hughes were a bust..... then what? 8mil for a 11g 30pt player.... Yikes. That could have been extremely bad cap management, but whatever, you cant win em all. 

 

Hischier and Hughes are the exact reason why fans need to stfu here about our prospects and even the really young players on our team. It takes time for some players to evolve into top tier players. 

 

 

We just need to be patient and focus on the positives, this fan base ignores all positives and focuses far too much on negatives.

Miller was worth every single pick in that trade

Hughes is an elite PMD

Pettersson is taking over

Boeser is rounding his game out

3rd and 4th line contributions

added a top 4 and top 6W plus a prospect

Hoglander starting to blossom

Podz and Klim have a great attitude and completely bought in and are invested in developing into NHL players

Demko does still have elite potential

AHL call ups were incredible this season

AHL team is in the playoffs

Prospects are doing quite well around the globe

The Kuzmenko signing

 

There are so many positives to look at and feel good about the future.

 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

 

Once again, appreciate the well thought out reply. It's nice to actually get some intellectual rebuttals from someone and not just troll-like responses.

 

 

We are all in agreeance it seems like Boston is an ageless/timeless 7th wonder of the world with how long they've remain competitive. They have done a fantastic job staying highly competitive for sooo long. Part of which I believe is due to the fact they do not have any super-star contracts. Next year Pastrnak's deal kicks in and this will be the first shockwave sent through their cap world. When you have Marchand for under 6.5mil his entire career, Bergeron never higher than 7mil and Pastrnak under 6.5mil up until next year.... You're laughing at the rest of the league. The timing of those signings and when those guys really broke out, favoured Boston so heavily. 

The only real major contract they have is McAvoy and this was the first season of his new deal. Bergeron and Krejci came back and signed for under 4mil combined.... This is kind of why I dont necissarily want to win the Bedard sweepstakes... The kid will command (assuming he is the real deal) McDavid money in 3 years and that will dismantle an entire team. It will be so difficult to build around a contract that takes up 15-18% of the cap.

 

What has always made Boston such a strong team is their depth at C.... Next year they are going to be without 2 of their top 3Cs.... The possession game will disappear from them and they will find themselves chasing the puck a lot more. 

 

If Pastrnak declines and Marchand who is very likely to decline based on his age and the wear and tear on his body..... Who is to step up and take over the reins? Sure they have some "youngish" players that can fill the gap.... But they cannot replace the production at all. Boston is truly in going to be in a world of hurt, mark my words. They havent drafted enough talent in the last 6-8 years to transition into the new era seamlessly. They are going to hit a wall of growing pains. Same as Pittsburgh right now, they are closing in on the end of the Sid and Gino era and it looks bleak.... We just saw Pittsburgh fail to beat 2 bottom 5 teams in the last 2 games of the regular season to earn a playoff berth. Its going to be a huge drop off from the Sid and Gino era, I get the sense just by looking at Boston's system, there is going to be some pretty tough years ahead. Mind you I will give them the credit that they do have Pastrnak, McAvoy and Ullmark/Swayman. However one of Swayman or Ullmark are a cap casualty next season and will be moved for something significant. Swayman is 23 and an RFA and I would think they would move Ullmark to a team in search of a goalie who is cost controlled for at least a couple years... I don't see the logic in moving Swayman who is so much younger and also playing at a very high level. 

 

To me despite having those 3 guys being young and locked up for awhile.... I think the loss of Bergeron and Krejci are going to have a serious effect on Boston's overall game. Losing 2 C's especially a guy like Bergeron.... That is a devastating blow to any organization.

 

 

 

Yes ultimately results speak, but I don't just look at results and say "well we lost thats that" or "we won we're so good" I always dive deep into the analytics and see how we achieved that win, wether we deserved it or not. Same goes for losses, I want to know just how bad were we that season etc. 

Demko has been slow to start for 2 consecutive seasons. It's kind of concerning to me, however I look at Pettersson and see that he was also slow to start for a couple years. The year he and Hughes held out and waited to sign their contracts, then the following season he was enjoying travelling and had a garbage start pointless in I think it was 24 of the first 40 games of the season last year? Then he caught fire..... This year, Pettersson learned from his off-season habits and he was early to camp, worked his ass off and came flying out of a f***ing cannon and never stopped producing all year. If Demko is a bit too lackadaisical in the off-season and it has resulted in his slow starts, perhaps he takes a page out of Petey's books and gets to work early in the summer and pushes himself even harder.

 

Despite the structureless system that people talk about with Van this season, our goalies ultimately let in 50 goals in the first 60 games of the season, that every other goalie around the league was stopping. So that to me was not structure or on defense. That is purely sh*t goaltending. By the end of the season we had -40GSAA in all situations. 1 bad goal every other game. Thats hard for a team to overcome on pretty much a nightly basis.

 

It also didnt help that our PK was historically sh*t and that is also attributed to how bad our goaltending was. 

 

I wouldnt say goal scoring is good "but".... That is the hardest part of finding success in this league as a team, finding ways to score. We saw our 3rd and 4th lines actually be the difference makers in games down the stretch. When Demko came back, we had a couple close scoring games against competitive teams and our 4th line pulled through and got us the win. Dries, Joshua, Aman.... These guys stepped up and that is something that bodes well for the future, if we can have some guys further down the lineup contributing when our top lines are struggling/being shut down.

 

We'll never know if the Canucks would have made the post season in a full season in 2019-20. But what we do know for a fact is when the season was on the line and we had a chance to make it into the playoffs, we won a best of 5 series to get into the post season. Toronto and Edmonton both failed to win a best of 5

The bubble season.... Our team was soooooooooooooooooo young and VGK was very experienced and full of players in their absolute prime. It was a good learning experience for our youth. That was Petterssons 2nd year, QH rookie season, Boeser's 3rd.... We were no match, but nonetheless we saw the potential in Demko on full display for 4 games, there were positives to draw from that 7 game series against VGK. 

 

Elite goaltending is not what you want to rely on, no. BUT.... Elite goaltending is what you need to win. It's rare to see poor goaltending win a Stanley cup. You need an Elite goalie to get you through a series at times. It all comes down to goaltending in the very end. Tim Thomas had 20.72GSAA.....TWENTY POINT SEVEN TWO GSAA in 2010-11, Roberto Luongo.... -.97GSAA

That was allllllllllllll goaltending.

 

 

I hope these past 2 starts to the season are not going to be an annual thing for Demko. 

 

 

Yea sure they had to drop in the draft. We also lost OJ to injuries right after being drafted. Not everything works out the way everyone would expect it. 

NJD did acquire a 26y/o elite goaltender, who ultimately fell a part after his hip surgery. Its unfortunate but they did get some use out of him.

NYR's top 2 picks havent exactly lived up to the hype, but RNH didnt really either....until now.... There is still plenty of time for Laffrienierre and Kaako... They also dont get favourable icetime either....13-15 mins TOI... Doesnt give them much opportunity to showcase their talent and put up points. Either way, those kids are still so young and they have 3-4 years before they hit their peak athletic prime.

 

Kesler also held the keys to his own destination. Who knows what could have been the return from Chicago. Perhaps we would have landed a much bigger headstart on a rebuild.

Jared McCann was a cancer and it goes to show what his worth was by following his postage stamps. TOR paid a 7th to acquire him and then waived him goodbye to Seattle to protect someone else on their roster. That says quite a bit about the kid. The amount of teams he has played for in such a short time. 

Now you say we sold low on McCann for Gudbranson.... Gudbranson had a MONSTER season in FLA and took over as their top dman in the 6 game playoff stint. He was an absolute beast and I watched that series thinking holy f*** this dude is terrifying. Unfortunately he got here and missed 52 games in his first season, then 30 the next... Health just doesnt seem to be on our side in almost every trade we make. Someone told me there was a study done on players like Gudbranson and that they would go "extinct" in a few years (this was a few years ago).... Gudbranson just landed another 4x4. 

It sucks that trades dont always pan out. Nothing is ever a guarantee. There are trades all around the league throughout history where players going either way have opposite levels of success/failure.

 

Forsling for Clendenning was not sold low, the potential for Clendenning was so much higher and he was playing so much better at the time. If you go look at his stats, you start to see quite quickly why we went after him. Everyone can look at hindsight and win every argument after the fact... But at the time, the trade made a ton of sense and looked great for our future.

 

Edler refused to waive and that is well known

 

Hamhuis, Vrbata, Miller..... What value was there in 34-37 year old players? who's to say anyone wanted them? Hamhuis was also injured the year his contract was up, so I dont see many takers on a guy who missed 20+ games 2 seasons in a row.

 

Hansen, Burrows, Bieksa, you name it, they lasted at most 3 seasons after being traded... Hansen and Burrows were less than 1 season, so to take anything you can get, is better than nothing. 

Bieksa also turned into Gustavsson

Hansen into Goldobin, who was a very talented young player... a former 1st round 27th overall pick for a 33 y/o washed up Hansen... I'll take those odds every time. Hansen played 61 more games after being traded. Burrows played 91.

Burrows with 91 games left in the tank returned us another high prospect, that was then moved for another high end prospect in Linus Karlsson who has had 2 great seasons in the SEL and AHL.

We turned some nothings into some hopefully somethings. We did quite well considering the state that our "trade chips" were in at that point in their careers, the end of their roads.

 

 

Death by a thousand cuts was the failure of drafting and developing from 2005-2013 and selling the future for a chance to win a cup. Rightfully so. I do not blame Gillis for doing what he did, but ultimately this is the price you pay when you go all in. From 2005-2013 we had virtually no one to take over for the twins. If you look back at what kept us so competitive for so long, it was the seamless transition from the WCE to the Sedin era. as the WCE came to an end, the twins emerged after a few years of struggling and developing.

NJD got Hischier and Hughes to sign their 8 year deals before they broke out, they banked on both of them becoming star players. They took a huge risk and it paid off. We also signed Hughes to a very, VERY friendly deal, Pettersson took a bridge deal to help make the cap situation work. I hope he thinks team first when signing his next deal and takes a pay cut. 

Hischier was signed at the end of 2018-19 after putting up 17g 30a

Hughes was signed early in the 2021 season (November) after putting up 11g 20a in 56gp.... They banked on talent and it worked. Its not like they talked these 99pt players down from 10 mil and made them take a massive paycut, they offered them a contract well above what they had accomplished, got them to sign long term and hoped that all would go according to plan. So far it has, however they look clearly outmatched by NYR.... A first round appearance is great, but a first round exit is as good as missing the playoffs, actually worse because if you clearly aren't ready, you're now drafting in the middle to bottom half of the 1st.

 

JB did attempt to take advantage of EP and QH early on, had COVID not impacted the world and frozen the cap, we would have had an extra 4-8mil in 2020 to re-sign Tanev, Toffoli and Markstrom, we then could have turned and traded any of those mentioned players for picks/prospects to retool and really build a deep talent pool.

The cap was announced to rise to 84-88mil just weeks prior to COVID, JB acquired Toffoli, knowing the cap was going to rise, or so he thought.... 3 weeks later everything changed and that cost us 3 players that would have been assets, JB DID manage to replace them with fairly comparable options and saved 1.4mil in a frozen cap climate and was able to sign Petey and Hughes. He also did excellent with Demko, Horvat and Boeser in terms of RFA negotiations. Our RFA negotiations have gone nowhere near handing out crazy $ and term. Its been very reasonable $ given out and was careful with the term given out to Boeser and Bo. 

 

Yea you could say it was good cap management on NJDs behalf, but if Hischier or Hughes were a bust..... then what? 8mil for a 11g 30pt player.... Yikes. That could have been extremely bad cap management, but whatever, you cant win em all. 

 

Hischier and Hughes are the exact reason why fans need to stfu here about our prospects and even the really young players on our team. It takes time for some players to evolve into top tier players. 

 

 

We just need to be patient and focus on the positives, this fan base ignores all positives and focuses far too much on negatives.

Miller was worth every single pick in that trade

Hughes is an elite PMD

Pettersson is taking over

Boeser is rounding his game out

3rd and 4th line contributions

added a top 4 and top 6W plus a prospect

Hoglander starting to blossom

Podz and Klim have a great attitude and completely bought in and are invested in developing into NHL players

Demko does still have elite potential

AHL call ups were incredible this season

AHL team is in the playoffs

Prospects are doing quite well around the globe

The Kuzmenko signing

 

There are so many positives to look at and feel good about the future.

 

 

Hughes and Petey didn’t “hold out” before signing their contracts. They were RFAs. They didn’t miss any regular season games. So they weren’t hold outs. Benning totally screwed up then too. Both players should have been signed to 8 year deals. But that dough head thought otherwise.