[PDF] Vegas Golden Knights (P1) vs. Edmonton Oilers (P2) | Golden Knights win series 4-2

[PistolPete13]

10 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

The thing is, top heavy teams (by cap hit) are missing what it takes to win and that is depth.

 

The Oilers, the Leafs, gone in 2nd round

Tank mentality gets you so far. You get the great picks but then you have to have a good strategy for constructing a team from the net out and you have to have the right coaching staff. 

Leafs and Oilers failed on the execution side of things. Both teams still have a window,  but they both need to shed at some high priced forwards, to get the back end help that they need. 

 

Sheldon Keefe or Jay Woodcroft going up against the likes of Brindamour, Cassidy or DeBoer? It ain’t even close.

[PistolPete13]

10 hours ago, CanuckRookieFan said:

Saw some dude saying Florida, Nevada, Texas, Washington don't have income tax so that's why the teams from there always get into playoffs. Like wtf lol?

 

Awful take, what does taxes have to do with anything? No one is thinking about that I may be new to hockey and a fan but you are reaching really deep to have to convince me or any fan taxes is actually something to hang your hat on when choosing champions. Hint, ITS NOT.

I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the impact that taxes can play. A player is Dallas takes more money home, on an after tax basis then a player in Vancouver does. Means that Dallas can sign a player for quite a bit less than Vancouver can and the player ends up taking home the same amount on an after tax basis. 
This makes it a lot easier to construct a superior team in a salary cap league. 

Also, in the competition to sign free agents, Dallas has a better chance then Vancouver does because of the tax differential. 

 

There are a lot of other considerations that impact a player’s decision about where to play, and not all teams try to build their team through free agency. Having said that, tax does have an effect. The question is, how important is that effect on the over all scheme of things. IMO it is somewhat important. 
 

Edited May 15, 2023 by PistolPete13

[I.Am.Ironman]

14 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Edmonton is a bit of a long-term all in.  They've already locked up their biggest pieces, and they have some tough decisions to make, but nothing like Toronto.  If Edmonton can unload Yamamoto and Foegele, they can re-sign Bouchard.  After that, they can decide on what do with their secondary pieces (Kostin, McLeod, Ryan, Janmark).  Toronto has to re-sign Bunting and Samsonov, so they're likely going to lose Ryan O'Reilly, which really hurts.  Probably loses Kerfoot too.

I'll be interested to see how much ROR gets on the open market this year. At 32 he will likely be best suited in a defensive role and will not be worth 7+ million in the coming years. He'd be a great add for us but we don't really have the space... We'd have to offload two of Brock, Garland, and Beauvillier. If we could swing it then we would be better off for it but defensive dmen should be our priority.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[PistolPete13]

10 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

I'll be interested to see how much ROR gets on the open market this year. At 32 he will likely be best suited in a defensive role and will not be worth 7+ million in the coming years. He'd be a great add for us but we don't really have the space... We'd have to offload two of Brock, Garland, and Beauvillier. If we could swing it then we would be better off for it but defensive dmen should be our priority.

ROR is a great player, but he might be on the outside looking in, unless he is willing to sign a below market contract.

 

His stock really rises as the playoffs approach A below team like Az would be wise to sign him and then trade him to a contender at the TDL for a nice haul.

[Elias Pettersson]

8 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

Oh Oilers...  This one is largely on Skinner I have to say unfortunately.  Oilers were primed to score their way out of anything these playoffs but no team can outgun a Dan Cloutier situation.  Oilers D didn't help matters any but 4 goals allowed on 17 shots in an elimination game.  Yikes...

 

People are laughing at the Oilers but they outshot the Knights something like 40-18.  The Vegas goalie just did them the way Demko did Vegas for us that year.  I said before that these Oilers remind me of something in between the 1981 / 1982 Oilers in the playoffs and the 1983 Oilers.  I think next year you might see the 1983 version.  They've learned some playoff lessons the same way the Canucks did in 1991 through 1993...and 2007 through 2010.

I disagree. The Oilers of the 80’s needed the first 3 years to build out their team. They were still teenagers the first two years. 
 

By year 4 they were a powerhouse and only lost to one of the greatest teams ever in NYI. 
 

McDavid and Draisaitl have already been around 8+ years and still can’t figure out how to play 5 on 5 and play actual defence. Without their PP they are barely a playoff team. Gretzky’s Oilers did not have to rely on their PP to win games. They dominated 5 on 5. Actually, they dominated 4 on 4 as well. So much so that the NHL had to implement “The Gretzky Rule”. No more 4 on 4 for offsetting penalties. 
 

Unless these current Oilers can find a goalie who can stop pucks and some defencemen who can play defence, I don’t see them ever winning a cup. They have a 3 year window left. Once Draisaitl and McDavid are UFA’s I think this team will be dismantled. There is no way the Oilers can afford to keep both if they keep playing pond hockey and racking up 130-150 points. And even if they try they will be the Leafs anyways and have no money to pay anyone else. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Sophomore Jinx]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Eichel had a great game, especially defensively. He outplayed both McDavid and Draisaitl. 
 

Edmonton will never win a cup playing pond hockey. And with AHL goaltending and an AHL defence.  Nurse at $9.25 million for another 7 years is probably the worst contract in the NHL. Maybe only slightly better than Huberdeau. 

Totally in agreement....and Nurse is just grotesque, an unbelievably bad contract....

 

In an elimination game, when it was all on the line, Nurse served up a zero points, 1 SOG, 2 hits, and - 3 performance.

 

The Coil only had 6 blocked shots from ALL of their forwards combined...you nailed it, pond hockey indeed.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Sophomore Jinx

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

Totally agreement....and Nurse is just grotesque, an unbelievably bad contract....

 

In an elimination game, when it was all on the line, Nurse served up a zero points, 1 SOG, 2 hits, and - 3 performance.

 

The Coil only had 6 blocked shots from ALL of their forwards combined...you nailed it, pond hockey indeed.

Vegas had 28 blocked shots, Edmonton had 14.  So double.  One team played actual playoff hockey, doing all the dirty things to win, the other team was running around trying to get the other team to take a penalty.  

 

Without that PP, McDavid is not even better than Petey.  He is a huge benefactor of the way the Oilers play.  If Petey was playing shinny hockey every game and was on that PP, he'd also get 150 points.  Look at RNH.  He's a 100-point player with that PP.  Without it, he's barely getting 50 points.  RNH got 47 points this year at even strength.  Petey had 68.  McDavid had 75.  Draisaitl had 64.  Petey actually had more even strength points this year than Draisaitl and only 7 less than McDavid.  Think about that for a minute.  

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

38 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

I'll be interested to see how much ROR gets on the open market this year. At 32 he will likely be best suited in a defensive role and will not be worth 7+ million in the coming years. He'd be a great add for us but we don't really have the space... We'd have to offload two of Brock, Garland, and Beauvillier. If we could swing it then we would be better off for it but defensive dmen should be our priority.

Would he be good for that?  That would push Miller off to the wing again, and I'm fine with him being centering our second line.  One of Vancouver's stated priorities was to get themselves a reliable third line centre.  Nils Aman, bless his soul, but he shouldn't be expected to be the primary 3C on a competitive team.  

 

Bringing this back to the topic of the Oilers, it'll be interesting to see what Edmonton pays RFA Ryan McLeod.  He is exactly the type of 3C we want, and the equivalent price will be higher on the UFA market.

[Elias Pettersson]

44 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

30 people on CDC picked Vegas in 6.  But not even one of these so called hockey professionals picked Vegas in 6.  Not even one.  

 

CDC is much smarter than real hockey experts...

[Elias Pettersson]

Just now, Bob.Loblaw said:

Would he be good for that?  That would push Miller off to the wing again, and I'm fine with him being centering our second line.  One of Vancouver's stated priorities was to get themselves a reliable third line centre.  Nils Aman, bless his soul, but he shouldn't be expected to be the primary 3C on a competitive team.  

 

Bringing this back to the topic of the Oilers, it'll be interesting to see what Edmonton pays RFA Ryan McLeod.  He is exactly the type of 3C we want, and the equivalent price will be higher on the UFA market.

They also have to pay the Bouch bomber.  Edmonton has minimal cap space.  They can't afford to sign these guys.  They are going to have to make some tough cap decisions this summer...

[rekker]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

30 people on CDC picked Vegas in 6.  But not even one of these so called hockey professionals picked Vegas in 6.  Not even one.  

 

CDC is much smarter than real hockey experts...

Maybe not enough of us have Rogers signing our paychecks?

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, johngould21 said:

153 points mean nothing. This is the most difficult trophy in all of sports to win. All you need is a spot in the playoffs and anything could happen. It's a team game, and teams that are built for the grind, usually win. This shows you how teams can shut superstars down in the playoffs, and how teams are built. Two teams with 4-6 players earning most of the salary cap, that have AHL goalies and suspect defense shouldn't win either. That's you Oilers and Leafs.

I was at the last Leaf game in Vancouver, a Canuck team that didn't make the playoffs beat them in all aspects of the game. Right now, I'd take EP over Matthews, or Marner, or Tavares any day.

Easy, all day every day.  If Petey was playing shinny hockey on the Oilers and was on that power play he's also getting 150 points.  Petey had more points at even strength this year than Draisaitl.  Think about that...

[iceman64]

On 4/29/2023 at 10:54 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

Vegas has a big team and a big defence. I think they will wear down the Oilers.  Vegas in 6…

I hate Edm, but if we go that VGK route and have a decent sized team and defence with depth as I've been on about for years and years then we'd have a good shot but usually we're sort of creampuff with no depth so it's not surprising we haven't won shite

Edited May 15, 2023 by iceman64

[Elias Pettersson]

On 4/29/2023 at 10:54 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

Vegas has a big team and a big defence. I think they will wear down the Oilers.  Vegas in 6…

 

[Eddie]

Lessons here i think are that EDM and TOR are both poorly constructed teams. 

 

Not enough defensive depth and poor Goal tending cost them both again. 

 

I mean the difference in tax people keep pointing out certainly helps the US teams construct deeper rosters which goes a long way to explaining the Canadian team cup drought. But, further to that every Canadian team seems to try and shortcut their builds and get to the winning formula too fast. 

 

While I think the playoffs have still thrown up a bunch of warning signs around the way Vancouver is constructed - the one thing that makes me really happy is that we moved on from Horvat and didn't sign him to a Nurse like a contract - both 5M players who's over-bloated salary is now costing the teams another solid D or middle 6 F.

[greenbean30]

11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Vegas had 28 blocked shots, Edmonton had 14.  So double.  One team played actual playoff hockey, doing all the dirty things to win, the other team was running around trying to get the other team to take a penalty.  

 

Without that PP, McDavid is not even better than Petey.  He is a huge benefactor of the way the Oilers play.  If Petey was playing shinny hockey every game and was on that PP, he'd also get 150 points.  Look at RNH.  He's a 100-point player with that PP.  Without it, he's barely getting 50 points.  RNH got 47 points this year at even strength.  Petey had 68.  McDavid had 75.  Draisaitl had 64.  Petey actually had more even strength points this year than Draisaitl and only 7 less than McDavid.  Think about that for a minute.  

This 100%. McDavid and Draisaitl are great in the offensive zone, but there is a reason they put up so many points compared to other players, and it's not because they are in another league, it's due to how they and the team play.

I just read an article on theScore about how they could be setting new records in the cap era if they can win a cup due to their Points per game. When Crosby was younger, he could've put up way more points if he wanted to, but he knew he had to play a different style to actually win and be successful. McDavid won't win until he realizes that. Everyone says McDavid is the greatest player to play in a long time, but to me he doesn't compare to Crosby.

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, greenbean30 said:

This 100%. McDavid and Draisaitl are great in the offensive zone, but there is a reason they put up so many points compared to other players, and it's not because they are in another league, it's due to how they and the team play.

I just read an article on theScore about how they could be setting new records in the cap era if they can win a cup due to their Points per game. When Crosby was younger, he could've put up way more points if he wanted to, but he knew he had to play a different style to actually win and be successful. McDavid won't win until he realizes that. Everyone says McDavid is the greatest player to play in a long time, but to me he doesn't compare to Crosby.

McDavid couldn't hold Crosby's jock strap.  The people who think McDavid is actually a better player than Crosby in his prime because he can put up a bunch of PP points in the regular season while choking every year in the playoffs don't know anything about hockey.  Truth...

 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

24 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Vegas had 28 blocked shots, Edmonton had 14.  So double.  One team played actual playoff hockey, doing all the dirty things to win, the other team was running around trying to get the other team to take a penalty.  

 

Without that PP, McDavid is not even better than Petey.  He is a huge benefactor of the way the Oilers play.  If Petey was playing shinny hockey every game and was on that PP, he'd also get 150 points.  Look at RNH.  He's a 100-point player with that PP.  Without it, he's barely getting 50 points.  RNH got 47 points this year at even strength.  Petey had 68.  McDavid had 75.  Draisaitl had 64.  Petey actually had more even strength points this year than Draisaitl and only 7 less than McDavid.  Think about that for a minute.  

I see this argument used by non-Oilers fans all the time, and it simply doesn't make sense.  If your team has the most lethal powerplay in hockey history, it makes sense to orient your game towards that.  You shouldn't fault a player or a team for playing to its strengths.

 

McDavid and Pettersson are completely different kinds of players.  Pettersson is a very slippery player who is exceptional at avoiding contact and creating space.  On the puck, he's such a smooth handler and he can get just enough separation to make a play.  Off the puck, he is so good at getting open.  McDavid has a different approach, where he will use his explosiveness to challenge defenders directly.  Either he blows by them and gets a prime scoring chance or he gets stuffed.  More likely, defenders will get desperate and either hook, hold or trip him.  His style of play is specifically catered towards drawing penalties.  It works as well as it does because he is Connor McDavid, so I think it's completely unfair to hold that part of his game against him.  If Pettersson were on the Oilers, he would get less even strength points because he's on the power play all the time, just like everyone else on Edmonton.

 

If there are older comparisons, I'd say McDavid is a faster, smaller version of Mario Lemieux while Pettersson is a more offensively minded version of Pavel Datsyuk.  What's the point of suggesting one is better than the other when they play completely different styles of hockey?

Edited May 15, 2023 by Bob.Loblaw

[Ghostsof1915]

So the Oilers need a young Scotty Bowman, to get McD and Drais to buy into playing defensive hockey?