Who here is actually happy with the Hronek trade?

[Nucker 67]

8 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Who knows how he'll fare. Most star players rarely ever fight. Elias hits harder than McDavid or Matthews, both of whom have size on him. 

That's true, Petey has really worked on his hitting game over the last couple of years. He is getting stronger, hoping he takes another big step this off season. Maybe he should spend some time with Bieksa, teach him a few things. 

[Strawbone]

Maybe let him play a few meaningful games (like a full season) with the team first before judging this trade!

[PhillipBlunt]

41 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I have to be honest, I'm absolutely laughing my ass off at how much people are crying that we found a top pairing RHD that fits the age group of our core, for a mid 1st-round pick and a second.

Hronek is a top 4 defenseman, not a top pairing RHD. He's not in the realm of Ekblad, McAvoy, or any of the other true number ones. Maybe try getting that one right.

41 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

It's also blisteringly obvious how many posters don't watch other teams other than the Canucks. Detroit were in a tight playoff race until Hronek got injured and then traded, and they fell off a cliff. That's as good a sign as anybody on this forum should need to be happy with this trade. PP, PK, 5on5, guy gets it all done; hits, blocks, possession, great first pass, grit, and outstanding offensive numbers.

Just because people aren't completely and slavishly sold on the Hronek trade doesn't mean that they don't watch other teams. You really like the trade and the player. Good for you. Hopefully he does well here. 

41 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? This is why we're hated as a fanbase. 

Why do you care if people hate the Canucks fanbase? Why so much concern over it? That hate has really receded in the last few years and been replaced with pity, so your point here is truly superfluous. 

41 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Allvin could trade Pettersson for McDavid tomorrow and people on here would complain about how we went 1 year older. This is how ridiculous some of you seem. 

Seeing as how you just made up a scenario and reacted to it, it seems that you're the ridiculous one. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by PhillipBlunt

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

That's true, Petey has really worked on his hitting game over the last couple of years. He is getting stronger, hoping he takes another big step this off season. Maybe he should spend some time with Bieksa, teach him a few things. 

And let's not forget that he owns the hardest shot in the NHL too. 

[Odd.]

36 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So, we won't be competitive for 3-4 years.  Okay, so how does that actually help us?  You think that 18OA pick is going to help us more 3-4 years from now?  Do you think that Petey and Hughes are going to re-sign in Vancouver if all we do is trade our top players for picks and prospects?

 

At the end of the day, our window is now, or at the very latest a year or two from now.  It's not four years from now.  If it was, we wouldn't have traded the 18OA pick, we wouldn't have kept Miller and JR probably wouldn't have even come to Vancouver...

. Can’t ice a competitive team if we’re up shits creek to the cap. 
 

Exactly how do you plan to ice a competitive team if A: You have over paid players underperforming and you need to move them B: Keep signing UFA’s to term and money while already being up against the cap, and C keep trading away picks for other teams expendable assets and then try to re sign them to bigger contracts?

 

To move the deadweight contracts on our team, picks need to be moved. No picks = no organizational depth. No QUALITY prospects which you can get with your 1sts and 2nds coming up to challenge for spots and become contributing factors on ELC’s. You can sign as many college free agents as you want, the chances of them being anything more than depth players remains low compared to high draft picks. Not all picks pan out, but there definitely are some that will and that comes with good scouting talent.

2 players shouldn’t dictate the long term plan into becoming an actual cup contender. Retooling on the fly is not a winning formula, never has been. No team has ever done well retooling on the fly. If Petey and Hughes can’t be bought into it, sayonara.
 

22 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I have to be honest, I'm absolutely laughing my ass off at how much people are crying that we found a top pairing RHD that fits the age group of our core, for a mid 1st-round pick and a second. It's also blisteringly obvious how many posters don't watch other teams other than the Canucks. Detroit were in a tight playoff race until Hronek got injured and then traded, and they fell off a cliff. That's as good a sign as anybody on this forum should need to be happy with this trade. PP, PK, 5on5, guy gets it all done; hits, blocks, possession, great first pass, grit, and outstanding offensive numbers.

 

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? This is why we're hated as a fanbase. 

 

Allvin could trade Pettersson for McDavid tomorrow and people on here would complain about how we went 1 year older. This is how ridiculous some of you seem. 

Hronek is not a top pairing defenseman. 
 

Detroit fans and team reporters alike say he’s not a top pairing defenseman despite being thrusted into that role.

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, Pears said:

This. Hronek is the exact type of right handed, top 4 staple we have been screaming for and to be frank the 18th+43rd overall picks is more than a reasonable package. Even though it was only three games we looked like a much better team with him in the lineup. 

A 1st and a 2nd is the price you pay for a top 4 RHDman.  Philly paid that and more for Ristolainen.  Chicago traded 2 high 1sts plus a 2nd plus Adam Boqvist for Seth Jones and a late 1st.  Calgary traded a 1st and 2 2nd's for Dougie Hamilton.  Rangers traded a 1st and Neil Pionk for Jacob Trouba.

 

We didn't steal Hronek from Detroit as he wasn't even on the trade market.  We gave them market value.  But we didn't overpay IMO...

[Odd.]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

A 1st and a 2nd is the price you pay for a top 4 RHDman.  Philly paid that and more for Ristolainen.  Chicago traded 2 high 1sts plus a 2nd plus Adam Boqvist for Seth Jones and a late 1st.  Calgary traded a 1st and 2 2nd's for Dougie Hamilton.  Rangers traded a 1st and Neil Pionk for Jacob Trouba.

 

We didn't steal Hronek from Detroit as he wasn't even on the trade market.  We gave them market value.  But we didn't overpay IMO...

I wonder why those players were made expendable in the first place… none of them can play defense. Also Lol at trying to use Jones and Ristolainen to support your claim. 2 of the worst contracts in the entire league………..

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Odd.

[fanfor42]

You make this trade if you are doing a retool.

 

You keep the picks if you are doing a rebuild.

 

Management has been perfectly and specifically clear that they are doing a retool and NOT a rebuild.

 

This trade fits the timeline for a retool and not a rebuild.

 

In light of that fact this whole issue is moot.

 

 

 

 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

9 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Hronek is a top 4 defenseman, not a top pairing RHD. He's not in the realm of Ekblad, McAvoy, or any of the other true number ones. Maybe try getting that one right.

Just because people aren't completely and slavishly sold on the Hronek trade doesn't mean that they don't watch other teams. You really like the trade and the player. Good for you. Hopefully he does well here. 

Why do you care if people hate the Canucks fanbase? Why so much concern over it? That hate has really receded in the last few years and been replaced with pity, so your point here is truly superfluous. 

Seeing as how you just made up a scenario and reacted to it, it seems that you're the ridiculous one. 

Hronek was the top pairing defenseman on a playoff bubble Detroit team for the last 2 years, and as soon as he was out of the picture, their freefall was inevitable and honestly quite sad to watch. He's a number 2 dman, not a 1D for sure, but he plays top pairing minutes, and does very well in them, considering his young age. He plays in all situations and even though he isn't the biggest dman, he plays gritty. He's everything we've wanted in a dman as a fanbase for the last decade. People are still complaining and it's absolutely enraging, considering this is the 10th+ post whining about him and the price (Which I consider a steal) and people still don't understand what we got in him. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

7 minutes ago, Odd. said:

. Can’t ice a competitive team if we’re up shits creek to the cap. 
 

Exactly how do you plan to ice a competitive team if A: You have over paid players underperforming and you need to move them B: Keep signing UFA’s to term and money while already being up against the cap, and C keep trading away picks for other teams expendable assets and then try to re sign them to bigger contracts?

 

To move the deadweight contracts on our team, picks need to be moved. No picks = no organizational depth. No QUALITY prospects which you can get with your 1sts and 2nds coming up to challenge for spots and become contributing factors on ELC’s. You can sign as many college free agents as you want, the chances of them being anything more than depth players remains low compared to high draft picks. Not all picks pan out, but there definitely are some that will and that comes with good scouting talent.

2 players shouldn’t dictate the long term plan into becoming an actual cup contender. Retooling on the fly is not a winning formula, never has been. No team has ever done well retooling on the fly. If Petey and Hughes can’t be bought into it, sayonara.
 

Hronek is not a top pairing defenseman. 
 

Detroit fans and team reporters alike say he’s not a top pairing defenseman despite being thrusted into that role.

So a 25 year old that's thrust into a role, excels in it, and the team instantly drops off a cliff as soon as he's taken out of that role, all of a sudden doesn't fit in that role? The truth is, their playoff hopes died the minute he got injured, and if that doesn't say absolutely everything about his role on that team, I don't know what to tell you. 

 

The beautiful part of all of this is that we don't need him to play top pairing minutes or be in a top pairing role. He'll be the staple of our 2nd pairing, and can fill in if Hughes is being overworked. So we essentially have a top pairing dman on our 2nd pairing. What's there to complain about?

[Odd.]

1 minute ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Hronek was the top pairing defenseman on a playoff bubble Detroit team for the last 2 years, and as soon as he was out of the picture, their freefall was inevitable and honestly quite sad to watch. He's a number 2 dman, not a 1D for sure, but he plays top pairing minutes, and does very well in them, considering his young age. He plays in all situations and even though he isn't the biggest dman, he plays gritty. He's everything we've wanted in a dman as a fanbase for the last decade. People are still complaining and it's absolutely enraging, considering this is the 10th+ post whining about him and the price (Which I consider a steal) and people still don't understand what we got in him. 

Detroit lost Walman, Fabbri, Rasmussen, and traded Bertuzzi. Hronek wasn’t the sole reason for why they ended off poorly. I’d argue them losing those forwards were mostly the reasons.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

3 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Detroit lost Walman, Fabbri, Rasmussen, and traded Bertuzzi. Hronek wasn’t the sole reason for why they ended off poorly. I’d argue them losing those forwards were mostly the reasons.

Look at the GAA in their 7-15-2 run when he got injured. It was the defense, which he lead for the past 2 years. 

[Odd.]

5 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

So a 25 year old that's thrust into a role, excels in it, and the team instantly drops off a cliff as soon as he's taken out of that role, all of a sudden doesn't fit in that role? The truth is, their playoff hopes died the minute he got injured, and if that doesn't say absolutely everything about his role on that team, I don't know what to tell you. 

 

The beautiful part of all of this is that we don't need him to play top pairing minutes or be in a top pairing role. He'll be the staple of our 2nd pairing, and can fill in if Hughes is being overworked. So we essentially have a top pairing dman on our 2nd pairing. What's there to complain about?

Holy crap you are so off base with reality it’s not even funny.

 

No he did not excel, he played his best hockey playing with a shutdown defenseman in Maatta to cover for his mistakes. As soon as he played with Chariot and others his game regressed to career norms. He was scratched 2 games last season for his poor play. His GSVA is one of the worst the last 3 years. He’s third amongst defenseman for being on the ice at even strength the most in that same time.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Odd.

[Nucker 67]

Be nice to add Reinbacher to the D core, one day

 

Hughes - Reinbacher

Pettersson - Hronek

 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Hronek was the top pairing defenseman on a playoff bubble Detroit team for the last 2 years, and as soon as he was out of the picture, their freefall was inevitable and honestly quite sad to watch. 

I don't think losing Hronek was the sole cause of the "freefall".

Just now, HorvatToBaertschi said:

He's a number 2 dman, not a 1D for sure, but he plays top pairing minutes, and does very well in them, considering his young age.

He's a perfect example of a 2nd pairing defenseman. He has the ability to play lots of minutes and does acquit himself quite well. He is not, however, on the level of a #1 RHD. 

Just now, HorvatToBaertschi said:

He plays in all situations and even though he isn't the biggest dman, he plays gritty.

Which is excellent. Team "toughness" should be something that permeates the entire roster, so Filip's willingness to get physical is welcome. That being said, the defense definitely needs more size to be competitive. 

Just now, HorvatToBaertschi said:

He's everything we've wanted in a dman as a fanbase for the last decade.

I'm thinking that the fanbase wants more size on defense, so saying that he's EVERYTHING that the fanbase wanted for the last decade is a stretch. Maybe he's ideally what you wanted, but if you were to poll the entire fanbase, I'd think Shea Weber in his prime would be the preference.

Just now, HorvatToBaertschi said:

People are still complaining and it's absolutely enraging, considering this is the 10th+ post whining about him and the price (Which I consider a steal) and people still don't understand what we got in him. 

If you're enraged by people "complaining", maybe take a walk and get some deep breaths in. Not that big a deal. Next season's training camp will be an interesting one. Hopefully there are some serious changes made to the defense so that offensive motors like Hughes and Hronek can flourish with more stay at home partners. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

2 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Holy crap you are so off base with reality it’s not even funny.

 

No he did not excel, he played his best hockey playing with a shutdown defenseman in Maatta to cover for his mistakes. As soon as he played with Chariot and others his game regressed to career norms. He was scratched 2 games last season for his poor play. 

He was scratched 2 games nearly 2 years ago (in which they gave up 9 goals) to send a message to the entire team, after leading that team in TOI for 2 years (4 years now) from 21 yo to now 25 yo. It was a coaching tactic that didn't really amount to anything. This was due to him posting only 1 assist in the first 4 games of the 2021-2022 season. 

 

He's been their number 1 for years and will be a solid 3 for us. He could definitely be a 2D on a contender. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

5 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I don't think losing Hronek was the sole cause of the "freefall".

He's a perfect example of a 2nd pairing defenseman. He has the ability to play lots of minutes and does acquit himself quite well. He is not, however, on the level of a #1 RHD. 

Which is excellent. Team "toughness" should be something that permeates the entire roster, so Filip's willingness to get physical is welcome. That being said, the defense definitely needs more size to be competitive. 

I'm thinking that the fanbase wants more size on defense, so saying that he's EVERYTHING that the fanbase wanted for the last decade is a stretch. Maybe he's ideally what you wanted, but if you were to poll the entire fanbase, I'd think Shea Weber in his prime would be the preference.

If you're enraged by people "complaining", maybe take a walk and get some deep breaths in. Not that big a deal. Next season's training camp will be an interesting one. Hopefully there are some serious changes made to the defense so that offensive motors like Hughes and Hronek can flourish with more stay at home partners. 

Enraging wasn't the right word. It's more funny in a sad way. I legitimately believe we could trade Pettersson for McDavid straight up and have a significant portion of this forum complain about; age, playoff pedigree, cap hit....

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Odd. said:

That’s exactly my problem.

 

We are next to absolutely f**ked cap wise. We have no young ELC’s that are contributing factors (this is achieved by keeping picks and good drafting). We have too many overpaid wingers locked up the next 3 years with the only way moving them is to move picks which this team sorely lacks. We have an albatross that will cost minimum MULTIPLE 1sts to move. A buyout further complicates cap the next 8 years.

 

What a disaster. I pray our college pick ups and some of the guys down in Abbotsford can pan out. They give me a glimmer of hope.

The lack of blue chip prospects and ELC's concerns me. Acquiring Raty was a start but whether he can amount to being more than a bottom six forward, if that, is anyone's guess. 

 

Folks talk about not wanting to make Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko wait but there's gotta be balance. We're a team that hasn't consistently made the playoffs since the early 2010's and yet we've continued the habit of frittering away 2nd round picks when we should be using them. I don't like moving 1sts either, at least Hronek is a tangible return though.

 

But yeah, if the Hronek move had been made after shipping out cap that be one thing but it didn't happen. And now we may have to pay because of it. 

 

I question whether it's management being opportunistic, impatient, or a bit of both. I worry they'll pay a haul to try and move players like Garland, Myers, or OEL.

 

1 hour ago, JamesB said:

 

I have to agree with these posts and with the OP. We all understand the trade-off. The Canucks are trying to put a good team on the ice while Petey, Hughes, and Demko are all in their (early prime) and on the team. All three of those guys are team controlled for the next two years or more and Hronek is also team controlled for the next two, years. Miller will also still be in or close to his prime for those two years. 

 

That is the window the Canucks are going for.

 

I would have preferred not to sign Miller and not to make the Hronek trade and tried to build a more solid foundation with draft picks and cap space to take advantage of the cap crunch.

 

But we will see how things go next year. If the Canucks turn out to be really good next year then I will give credit to Allvin and JR. And I hope that happens. 

It certainly looks that way, I think it's a futile effort though. I strongly doubt we'll be contending within the next two seasons. I think it's laughable to even discuss given our track record of making the playoffs. We'll see. 

 

I never wanted Miller extended, I wanted to flip him for assets, we'll see how Hronek turns out I suppose. 

 

52 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

That’s my main issue as well.

 

I don’t mind the trade itself. I’m fine with the value. I like Hronek as a target. And I don’t have any problem with adding a player like him to this team, even when considering where they are in their competitive cycle.

 

But they needed to move out some salaries before the TDL so they wouldn’t create this current cap crunch (and the leverage issues that have resulted).

 

What really sucks is that there are all these rumours out there that Allvin rejected fair trade offers because he set his prices too high, and actually missed out on chances to dump full salaries (no retention) on some of the contracts we’re now trying to move. Being a little more flexible on TDL returns may have offered a window to get the Canucks out of the current cap mess (and may have had an indirect result of making the team a little less competitive down the stretch, thereby improving draft position).

 

I don’t really know the specifics of what deals were on the table, but if the Canucks had managed to move out a salary or two before the TDL, I’d like how they’d be positioned for this summer a lot more (with the Hronek addition).

 

Even if the returns are the TDL were really poor, I doubt they were anywhere close to as odious as the trades being discussed now (with every team knowing the Canucks are ****ed if the don’t shed cap).

Yeaaaaah, they compounded an existing cap headache. They needed to find a way to dump more cap at the deadline or leading up to it and couldn't do it. At least not in the short-term, Beauvillier coming back to balance the cap ate up shorter term cap savings we'd have gotten by moving Horvat. It'd be one thing to have acquired Hronek during the summer after having dumped cap but we didn't play it that way. Our inability to dump cap may cost us assets now. 

 

Which rumours? I've been out of the loop the last while. But if Allvin did indeed hamstring us with prices that were too high as opposed to working with teams on fair deals, that's disappointing. Not surprising, but disappointing. 

 

I don't like how management has continued to bungle our cap scenario. They did it last offseason with Dickinson by painting themselves into a corner with their UFA signings, wound up costing us a 2nd. Now they've done it again by adding to an already questionable cap scenario with the Hronek acquisition. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Coconuts

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Enraging wasn't the right word. It's more funny in a sad way. I legitimately believe we could trade Pettersson for McDavid straight up and have a significant portion of this forum complain about; age, playoff pedigree, cap hit....

I'd prefer to keep Pettersson because I think he's a more complete player. Better defensively, and far more willing to take and dole out the physicality. There are some people who take a negative and overly critical approach to everything. I don't really see that specific type of misery permeating this particular thread though. 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Odd. said:

. Can’t ice a competitive team if we’re up shits creek to the cap. 
 

Exactly how do you plan to ice a competitive team if A: You have over paid players underperforming and you need to move them B: Keep signing UFA’s to term and money while already being up against the cap, and C keep trading away picks for other teams expendable assets and then try to re sign them to bigger contracts?

 

To move the deadweight contracts on our team, picks need to be moved. No picks = no organizational depth. No QUALITY prospects which you can get with your 1sts and 2nds coming up to challenge for spots and become contributing factors on ELC’s. You can sign as many college free agents as you want, the chances of them being anything more than depth players remains low compared to high draft picks. Not all picks pan out, but there definitely are some that will and that comes with good scouting talent.

2 players shouldn’t dictate the long term plan into becoming an actual cup contender. Retooling on the fly is not a winning formula, never has been. No team has ever done well retooling on the fly. If Petey and Hughes can’t be bought into it, sayonara.

JR inherited alot of bad contracts.  Obviously his job is not going to be easy.  But he didn't come here for a rebuild.  He is strategically changing this team and the roster in a way to make it competitive without having to go through a rebuild.  He is still working his way through the lineup, I expect more changes in the summer.  If not, he will pull the trigger next summer when we have better cap relief with expiring contracts.

 

Who said he is using picks to move deadweight contracts?  He never said that he would do that, that is only CDC speculation.  Allvin said they are calling teams to see what those prices are.

 

College free agents have the same chance of making it as a 2nd or later round pick.  How many 2nd or later round picks are actually on the Canucks right now?  Demko?  

 

So your answer to our long term plan is to trade Petey and Hughes?  Trade them for what, draft picks?  How is that actually going to help us?  Trade your star players and start over again with draft picks.  That makes no sense.  We already have our superstar players, trading them to acquire draft picks to start all over again makes no sense...