Who here is actually happy with the Hronek trade?

[PhillipBlunt]

17 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Petey is an immense talent, so skilled and cerebral. 

 

BUT...he's not a gritty, physical player when push comes to shove, and that is the playoffs. We all remember Daniel's head becoming a speedbag in 2011, no pushback. Petey is the exact same. He won't fight back. Marner probably has more pushback than Petey. 

 

So, can they go all the way with Petey?

 

 

While Pettersson will never be confused with a power forward, he's shown a far greater inclination for physical play than the Sedins ever did. Push comes to shove; Elias is pushing back.

[stawns]

34 minutes ago, Odd. said:

As many of you might know, I am NOT pleased with the Hronek trade. Our team is nowhere near competitive, and looking at Hronek, he doesn’t exactly fit much of our needs on defense other than being an offensive right handed defenseman.

 

He is not particularly good in his own end, he’s a bit undersized, and is more of a PP specialist than a 5 on 5 catalyst, something I would expect from a defenseman that costed a 1st and a 2nd. Not to mention being one of the only teams out of the playoff for 7 of 8 years trading 1sts like we’re competitive.

 

The problem is, he puts up points, and is in line for a significant raise. Some comparibles are:

 

Sergachev: $8.5M x 8 (averaged 30-38 points a season before extending, career high 65 points)

Trouba: $8.0M x 8 (averages 20-30 points)

Werenski: $9.583M x 6 (averages 30-40 points)

Chabot: $8.0M x 8 (averages 30-45 points)

Morrissey $6.25M x 8 (averages 25-35 points, career high 76 points)

Provorov $6.7M x 6 (averages 25-35 points)

 

All these guys signed their extensions between 23-26. Hronek is 25, and already averages 30-40 points a season. 
 

What is stopping him from asking those types of contracts? We aren’t getting him for under $7M, especially if he puts up 35+ points.

 

In a deep draft such as this, having 2 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick, and a 3rd round pick would have helped this organization immensely both depth and value. 
 

Yzerman fleeced us so hard. What an absolute disastrous trade that I don’t see paying off for us one bit. 

I have zero issues with the deal, other than the timing of it.  They should have waited until draft day.

 

Id say you don't have a good handle on who he is as a player 

[DSVII]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So, we won't be competitive for 3-4 years.  Okay, so how does that actually help us?  You think that 18OA pick is going to help us more 3-4 years from now?  Do you think that Petey and Hughes are going to re-sign in Vancouver if all we do is trade our top players for picks and prospects?

 

At the end of the day, our window is now, or at the very latest a year or two from now.  It's not four years from now.  If it was, we wouldn't have traded the 18OA pick, we wouldn't have kept Miller and JR probably wouldn't have even come to Vancouver...

I think we have to compete for the reasons laid out. But you have to be careful not to trade too many futures away if you want sustained competitiveness.

 

This is maybe a decade in the future but on the flip side with Petey and Hughes. We must also be soberly proactive with how this window plays out too. We're only in this mess because management thought it would be "unfair" to the Sedins to tank and rebuild during 2014-18.

 

We can't afford that. We have to do what's right for the Franchise and not try and Short cut and cheat what is a natural cycle of a team. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by DSVII

[JamesB]

26 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I thought the trade was really shortsighted initially when it happened. I do have a feeling that Hronek will end up being underwhelming here, but I will have to temper my expectations and see how he works out next season.

 

18 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I'd rather have kept the picks and maybe explored a move leading up to the draft. It's too early to tell what we actually have in him as a Canuck but I'm keeping my expectations more on the conservative side. 

 

Yzerman sold high. 

I have to agree with these posts and with the OP. We all understand the trade-off. The Canucks are trying to put a good team on the ice while Petey, Hughes, and Demko are all in their (early prime) and on the team. All three of those guys are team controlled for the next two years or more and Hronek is also team controlled for the next two, years. Miller will also still be in or close to his prime for those two years. 

 

That is the window the Canucks are going for.

 

I would have preferred not to sign Miller and not to make the Hronek trade and tried to build a more solid foundation with draft picks and cap space to take advantage of the cap crunch.

 

But we will see how things go next year. If the Canucks turn out to be really good next year then I will give credit to Allvin and JR. And I hope that happens. 

[spook007]

Just now, DSVII said:

I think we have to compete for the reasons laid out. But you have to be careful not to trade too many futures away if you want sustained competitiveness.

 

On the flip side with Petey and Hughes. We must also be soberly proactive with how this window plays out too. We're only in this mess because management thought it would be "unfair" to the Sedins to tank and rebuild during 2014-18.

 

We can't afford that. We have to do what's right for the Franchise.

True, but think the difference being Sedins were at the end of their hockey lives, where as Petey and QH are entering their prime years. 

[DS4quality]

To be honest I'm not sold on the Hronek deal either.  That's not to say he's a bad player,  and my opinion of the trade may or may not change.

 

But honestly this was a good season to take a step back and collect some extra picks maybe make a deal at the draft.

I don't like our cap situation.

I would like management to have began the process of bringing in more of their own picks to Abbotsford.

I hate the fact we pick so rarely in the second round.  I'd love to do more drafting than we currently do. Get more of our own guys to full the system. 

 

We got an extra 3rd and 4th. That's cool, but I'd prefer a first and second.

 

It feels like win now mode has been 10 seasons and Canucks can barely if even reach the playoffs. And that's why I don't like the deal right now.

Maybe Hronek can stabilize our roster defense,  but he can't fill every position in Abbotsford. 

 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

Quick answer: Anybody with a brain. 

[Nucker 67]

8 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

While Pettersson will never be confused with a power forward, he's shown a far greater inclination for physical play than the Sedins ever did. Push comes to shove; Elias is pushing back.

I do like how Petey is using that reverse hit to jolt opponents when they try to hit him, and he has thrown a few good hits, excellent defensively.

 

Let's just hope Petey never has to actually drop the gloves or gets put in that position. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

I have to be honest, I'm absolutely laughing my ass off at how much people are crying that we found a top pairing RHD that fits the age group of our core, for a mid 1st-round pick and a second. It's also blisteringly obvious how many posters don't watch other teams other than the Canucks. Detroit were in a tight playoff race until Hronek got injured and then traded, and they fell off a cliff. That's as good a sign as anybody on this forum should need to be happy with this trade. PP, PK, 5on5, guy gets it all done; hits, blocks, possession, great first pass, grit, and outstanding offensive numbers.

 

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? This is why we're hated as a fanbase. 

 

Allvin could trade Pettersson for McDavid tomorrow and people on here would complain about how we went 1 year older. This is how ridiculous some of you seem. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by HorvatToBaertschi

[-AJ-]

1 minute ago, NUCKER67 said:

I do like how Petey is using that reverse hit to jolt opponents when they try to hit him, and he has thrown a few good hits, excellent defensively.

 

Let's just hope Petey never has to actually drop the gloves or gets put in that position. 

I think Petey could handle himself in a lightweight fight, but probably not against any medium or heavyweights. Given how intense he is as a player, I'd be surprised if he doesn't finish his career with at least two or three fights.

[Timråfan]

40 minutes ago, Odd. said:

And we won’t even be a competitive team for the next 3-4 years. Look at our cap situation. 
 

If the goal is to make the playoffs and exit the 1st round for the next 4 years, we are no better than Toronto or Edmonton. Making trades to play an extra 4 weeks in April is not progress.

Didn’t you see Dallas versus Seattle recently? 
Both is teams I really believe the Canucks win over in play offs.

Petey, Miller and Hughes coupled with the new players/prospects like Kuz, Mikh, Hronek, Silovs take down teams like that. 
Just watch us next season. 

[Provost]

31 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Far too early to pass judgement IMO, but it really depends on if you think we can win with our current core or not. If you think we can't, the best choice is to trade Petey, Hughes, Demko, etc, and start over and get picks for this year. If you think our core guys can win, then it's probably more reasonable to get a guy like Hronek than an 18 year old that probably won't be in his prime for another 6 or 7 years.

That is a fair comment, you do have to layer on the long term cap already committed to the equation though in guys like OEL and Miller.  Also that we don’t have all these young guys signed to cheap long term deals to leverage future cap efficiencies with inflation like Chicago did.  We will be paying market rates for them to keep them.  I like a $7.35 million dollar Petterson a whole lot more than an $11 million dollar Petterson in terms of building a winner.

 

With all that in mind, do I think we we can successfully build fast enough around Petterson and Hughes… or that they are good enough on their own to make up for some bad money on the books?

 

Do I see stud prospects in the system who will come in and contribute near the top of the lineup and give us cap flexibility due to their cheap ELCs?

 

Nope.

 

I think the next few years will at best bring us to being an average team that will compete for one of the last playoff spots.

 

I think it is no secret I think we should have not signed Miller and actually done major surgery, including Petterson and Hughes if the price is right.

 

My aim is a Cup, and not making the first round of the playoffs.  I don’t see a likely path to that goal in the foreseeable future.  We are hoping for miracles at this point.  

 

[stawns]

12 minutes ago, JamesB said:

 

I have to agree with these posts and with the OP. We all understand the trade-off. The Canucks are trying to put a good team on the ice while Petey, Hughes, and Demko are all in their (early prime) and on the team. All three of those guys are team controlled for the next two years or more and Hronek is also team controlled for the next two, years. Miller will also still be in or close to his prime for those two years. 

 

That is the window the Canucks are going for.

 

I would have preferred not to sign Miller and not to make the Hronek trade and tried to build a more solid foundation with draft picks and cap space to take advantage of the cap crunch.

 

But we will see how things go next year. If the Canucks turn out to be really good next year then I will give credit to Allvin and JR. And I hope that happens. 

there's still a slight glimmer of hope for a Miller deal.......barely

[HorvatToBaertschi]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

there's still a slight glimmer of hope for a Miller deal.......barely

Why would we trade one of our top 3 players on a team friendly contract in his prime while our top players are beginning their prime? If you want to shed cap, shed it where there's dead weight; OEL, Myers, Garland or Boeser to start. That's 20 million off the books on players who contribute little. 

 

We are a significantly worse team without Miller. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

53 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I don't like how it further complicated our cap scenario, management got the guy they wanted but they backed us further into the corner capwise. Maybe this move could have happened later, I don't recall hearing a whole lot of speculation surrounding Hronek back around trade deadline time. 

 

I also dislike moving high picks. 

Double post (keeping the one below)

Edited May 16, 2023 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME
Double post

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

39 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I don't like how it further complicated our cap scenario, management got the guy they wanted but they backed us further into the corner capwise. Maybe this move could have happened later, I don't recall hearing a whole lot of speculation surrounding Hronek back around trade deadline time. 

 

I also dislike moving high picks. 

That’s my main issue as well.

 

I don’t mind the trade itself. I’m fine with the value. I like Hronek as a target. And I don’t have any problem with adding a player like him to this team, even when considering where they are in their competitive cycle.

 

But they needed to move out some salaries before the TDL so they wouldn’t create this current cap crunch (and the leverage issues that have resulted).

 

What really sucks is that there are all these rumours out there that Allvin rejected fair trade offers because he set his prices too high, and actually missed out on chances to dump full salaries (no retention) on some of the contracts we’re now trying to move. Being a little more flexible on TDL returns may have offered a window to get the Canucks out of the current cap mess (and may have had an indirect result of making the team a little less competitive down the stretch, thereby improving draft position).

 

I don’t really know the specifics of what deals were on the table, but if the Canucks had managed to move out a salary or two before the TDL, I’d like how they’d be positioned for this summer a lot more (with the Hronek addition).

 

Even if the returns are the TDL were really poor, I doubt they were anywhere close to as odious as the trades being discussed now (with every team knowing the Canucks are ****ed if the don’t shed cap).

[Nucker 67]

Can't trade (they bring too much to trade):

 

Pettersson

Miller

Kuzmenko

Hughes

Demko

 

Hoping Hronek can be added to this list. 

 

IMO, trade Garland, Boeser and Myers. 

 

Will be interesting to see how the D is reconstructed. Do any of Johansson, Kudryavtsev, Hirose, McWard, Brisebois or Rathbone make the big team next year?

 

 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

30 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I do like how Petey is using that reverse hit to jolt opponents when they try to hit him, and he has thrown a few good hits, excellent defensively.

 

Let's just hope Petey never has to actually drop the gloves or gets put in that position. 

Who knows how he'll fare. Most star players rarely ever fight. Elias hits harder than McDavid or Matthews, both of whom have size on him. 

[Pears]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If you think Hronek is mostly a PP specialist, then you obviously haven't watched him play to be honest...

 

And yes, I am very happy with the trade as Hronek is a legit top 4 Dman who can play in all situations.  The 18th overall pick won't even be in the lineup for 4 years...

This. Hronek is the exact type of right handed, top 4 staple we have been screaming for and to be frank the 18th+43rd overall picks is more than a reasonable package. Even though it was only three games we looked like a much better team with him in the lineup. 

[Honky Cat]

1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Anyone who is a neutral observer will realize that paying for a 1st and a 2nd (during a bad year) was not a good deal. I know there's a certain poster who thinks we got a "steal" from this, but consider this:

 

Hronek was a 2nd round from many years ago, which speaks to the benefits of drafting. They were later able to recoup that 2nd round pick AND a 1st round pick. I hope Hronek doesn't end up being a Clendenning 2.0. Forsling is/was Benning's worst trade.

 

Here's what I like about this current group of management:

1) Pro scouting >>> much better than what Benning ever did. Hirose, Joshua, Bear, etc etc. Had Benning gotten anyone of these players, he probably wouldn't have wasted as much money as he did.

2) Early drafting success - my favourite prospect so far is E.Pettersson (Defenseman). What a fantastic pick.

 

This trade is not one of those good things.

Everyone understands the benefit of drafting, but we dont have any impact RHD in our system.

Other than giving up a significant player on the roster, or signing an older UFA to insane $/and term. How else are we supposed to get a young-ish, top 4 ,RHD ?