McBackup Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: The trade is actually two first round picks plus Demko and Miller and some scraps for Leo Carlsson, Andrew Peeke and Sean Kuraly. Carlsson alone is worth two 1sts and Demko. The other two 1st round picks are coming from Pittsburgh in order for them to acquire Demko and Miller. That’s why it’s a 3 way trade as Columbus doesn’t want Miller but Dubas may be all over him. We are giving up four first round picks because we are giving up 2 of our own plus the assets required to get an additional two. Carlsson alone is magic beans. He is very tantalizing magic beans, but you are still talking about giving up multiple firsts and an elite goalie for magic beans. You are making the team worse for next season, yet giving up first round picks in the process, which is counterintuitive. I don’t understand the point of this trade beyond blockbusters for the sake of blockbusters. Edited June 2, 2023 by McBackup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, McBackup said: We are giving up four first round picks because we are giving up 2 of our own plus the assets required to get an additional two. Carlsson alone is magic beans. He is very tantalizing magic beans, but you are still talking about giving up multiple firsts and an elite goalie for magic beans. You are making the team worse for next season, yet giving up first round picks in the process, which is counterintuitive. I don’t understand the point of this trade beyond blockbusters for the sake of blockbusters. That’s not what you said. This is what you said: Losing 4 first round picks, Demko and Miller for the pokeball left on the table after the protagonist and their rival pick their starters, and some depth pieces is a terrible idea. You said we are giving up four first round picks PLUS Demko PLUS Miller. You know that’s not true. We traded Miller and Demko in my scenario to get those additional two 1st round picks. So the trade is four 1st round picks plus scraps for Carlsson, Peeke and Kuraly. Carlsson alone is worth three 1st round picks. Especially if none of them are in the top 10. You know this. He is a 1st overall pick in any other draft. Peeke is easily worth another first plus the scraps. And Kuraly is a bonus 3C. It would be a great trade for Vancouver to acquire another core player that could be as good as Petey. None of those first round picks that we are trading will ever be close to a Leo Carlsson. He has the potential to be Petey 2.0. Edited June 2, 2023 by Elias Pettersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 I really doubt Pittsburgh is willing to give up any future young assets, as their core is aging. Especially, at the defensive position. At some point, they need to start thinking about post-Crosby/Malkin/Letang era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 The trade is not favorable us. We lose 2 firsts and major assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: That’s not what you said. This is what you said: Losing 4 first round picks, Demko and Miller for the pokeball left on the table after the protagonist and their rival pick their starters, and some depth pieces is a terrible idea. You said we are giving up four first round picks PLUS Demko PLUS Miller. You know that’s not true. We traded Miller and Demko in my scenario to get those additional two 1st round picks. So the trade is four 1st round picks plus scraps for Carlsson, Peeke and Kuraly. Carlsson alone is worth three 1st round picks. Especially if none of them are in the top 10. You know this. He is a 1st overall pick in any other draft. Peeke is easily worth another first plus the scraps. And Kuraly is a bonus 3C. It would be a great trade for Vancouver to acquire another core player that could be as good as Petey. None of those first round picks that we are trading will ever be close to a Leo Carlsson. He has the potential to be Petey 2.0. Imagine you, me and Jim Benning are at the lunch table, trading lunch items. Among the items I have in my lunch box are 2 candy bars. Jim also two candy bars. I trade Jim my sandwich, drink, and fruit for his two candy bars. I now have a total of four candy bars. If I trade you all four of my candy bars for something from your lunchbox, I am giving up four candy bars. And yes Carlsson is magic beans. He’s probably going to be a good player. I don’t care. You are proposing giving up an elite goalie and a PPG forward, plus a metric f**kton of magic beans, for fewer magic beans. This makes no sense. Edited June 2, 2023 by McBackup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, McBackup said: Imagine you, me and Jim Benning are at the lunch table, trading lunch items. Among the items I have in my lunch box are 2 candy bars. Jim also two candy bars. I trade Jim my sandwich, drink, and fruit for his two candy bars. I now have a total of four candy bars. If I trade you all four of my candy bars for something from your lunchbox, I am giving up four candy bars. And yes Carlsson is magic beans. He’s probably going to be a good player. I don’t care. You are proposing giving up an elite goalie and a PPG forward, plus a metric f**kton of magic beans, for fewer magic beans. This makes no sense. I don't eat candy bars so that scenario makes no sense to me... But in any event, it's the same as the Horvat trade. In the end we got Hronek and Raty plus Beau and a 4th for Horvat and a 2nd. We could have kept the 1st round pick but we didn't. Magic beans only work if they turn into magic. Carlsson is as close to turning into magic as there ever will be. The four 1st round picks we are giving away could turn out to be Jake Virtanen and Olli Juolevi. Plus, we are getting a RHD partner for Hughes, which is worth at least a first-round pick on its own. Plus, a 3C. What I am doing with this trade is two things. First, I am dumping the two oldest players of our core and getting a brand-new shiny piece that may be as good as the best piece we have right now. Plus, on top of that I am building out the rest of the team by filling the two biggest holes, 3C and a partner for Hughes. This is what we need to do to not only make the playoffs but also try and win a Stanley Cup. Demko is also being replaced in my scenario by Adin Hill, who is actually playing in the Stanley Cup finals right now. And the last important piece of my trade is that I am freeing up $12 million in cap space, which is probably more important than the 3C. This allows us to get a guy like Ryan Graves to fill out the top 4 D. I am building an entire team so we can make a run in the playoffs next season. Staying pat the way we are right now isn't going to allow us to take the next step. I don't really want to lose Miller or Demko. But if I had to move one of the core pieces it would be one or both of them. Petey and Hughes are the untouchables and we just got Hronek. Kuzmenko could also be moved as well, I am not opposed to that for the right price... Edited June 2, 2023 by Elias Pettersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordekai Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 Carlsson isn’t guarantee star. I don’t pretend to know a lot about Carlsson but they did the same thing with Nolan Patrick and how did that turn out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seannnp Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 20 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: I wonder, does Petey get us 3OA + Peeke straight up? Carlsson looked good playing with men, he might not be that far off top-6 NHL production. I'm assuming he plays 4th line minutes next year in the NHL straight away, probably ends up scoring a good 30-40 points and then could easily hit a PPG in the year after that, or after that. Can Miller carry the reins as top line center in the meanwhile? Peeke certainly isn't that good but it'd be nice to have a partner for Hughes. In the short-term we're dreadful but in even 2-3 years time, we could have Leo Carlsson as a big, strong two-way likely 80-90 point center and big physical top pairing RD Peeke alongside Hughes who will only be 26 years old, and we build around him as our captain. Retool slows down a couple of years but that's not a huge rebuild really. I think CBJ probably have to add seeing how good Petey currently is, maybe throw in their 2nd round pick. It's pretty high so I say we take another defenceman - a guy like Willander, Strbak or Lindstein if they're available. These guys will all surely be a while off the NHL but could easily be future top-4 guys In that time, we lose the dreadful contracts on the roster and who knows...maybe an OEL buyout is a bit less sour then too... In as little as a couple of seasons time: Mikheyev - Carlsson - Kuzmenko Podkolzin - Miller - Boeser Hoglander - Raty - Beauvillier 4th line will probably change a lot Hughes - Peeke UFA (or Hirose if he does well) - Hronek OEL? - Willander I probably wouldnt even trade Petey for 1st OA, let alone 2OA or 3OA. Draft picks are hopeful, why trade a top line, potentially top 5 center who could be a Selke winner in the near future for prospects that could potentially be as good. I understand that Bedard has the generational label but I dont even forsee him as being as good as McDavid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjick the Warrior Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) On 6/1/2023 at 12:54 PM, Elias Pettersson said: Carlsson will be a 1B centre with Petey. Peeke will be Hughes partner for the next decade. Kuraly is a really good 3C. We also free up $12 million in cap space (Miller, Demko, Beauvillier - Granlund), which allows us to sign UFA's Graves, Hill, Reaves and Schenn to fill out the roster... So we get Carlsson, Peeke, Kuraly and $12 million in cap space... This could very easily take a Canuck bounce and there goes a bottom 5 team and lose their chance at another local phenom and high pick in another deep draft in 2024, that is my only concern Edited June 3, 2023 by Odjick the Warrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 8 hours ago, Odjick the Warrior said: This could very easily take a Canuck bounce and there goes a bottom 5 team and lose their chance at another local phenom and high pick in another deep draft in 2024, that is my only concern We could make the 2024 1st top 5 protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickyoursedin Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) I mean I’d love to keep the 2024 1rst round pick maybe put some protection on it I guess. However on first reaction you look at it and it seems like a lot it probably means it’s a fair deal. Granlund is a cap dump though so I do lean towards the Penguins either not giving enough. Maybe they retain a little bit on Granlund so it makes it easier for us to move him in a year or so. Or the Canucks get a 2nd round pick or 2 for taking on that salary to make it work for them. Edited June 3, 2023 by flickyoursedin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 6, 2023 Author Share Posted June 6, 2023 BUMP... Columbus is just in the middle of a 3 way. They are just about to hire Mike Babcock. They are all in... The 3OA may be on the table after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Lasso Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: BUMP... Columbus is just in the middle of a 3 way. They are just about to hire Mike Babcock. They are all in... The 3OA may be on the table after all... Babcock has a strong preference for vets? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: BUMP... Columbus is just in the middle of a 3 way. They are just about to hire Mike Babcock. They are all in... The 3OA may be on the table after all... Not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 6, 2023 Author Share Posted June 6, 2023 21 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said: Babcock has a strong preference for vets? Yup. They have enough young talent, they are now looking for the veteran guys to take them over the top. They still need a 1C and a goalie. Miller and Demko would be perfect for them. Give them 11OA so they still get a good prospect. I think Columbus would be all over Miller and 11OA for 3OA. If we also give them Demko we can take Peeke and maybe Sean Kuraly too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Lasso Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yup. They have enough young talent, they are now looking for the veteran guys to take them over the top. They still need a 1C and a goalie. Miller and Demko would be perfect for them. Give them 11OA so they still get a good prospect. I think Columbus would be all over Miller and 11OA for 3OA. If we also give them Demko we can take Peeke and maybe Sean Kuraly too... If they want Miller, Demko and the 11OA, we should ask for 3OA and Jiricek. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 6, 2023 Author Share Posted June 6, 2023 5 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said: If they want Miller, Demko and the 11OA, we should ask for 3OA and Jiricek. That would be the dream... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Lasso Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: That would be the dream... If they wanted two firsts (likely mid round) for Miller. Is that close to the value differential from 3OA - 11A? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Lasso Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Gaudreau - Miller - Laine looks very nice for them. Also allows their center depth to bump down, with Jenner/Roslovic slotting into 2/3 spots. They are an intriguing trade partner for us, with their defensive depth and cap space. All the makings of a blockbuster are there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 6, 2023 Author Share Posted June 6, 2023 Just now, Kenny Powers said: If they wanted two firsts (likely mid round) for Miller. Is that close to the value differential from 3OA - 11A? I think for the 3OA, Miller and 11OA plus another roster player (Kuraly) is fair value. 3OA + Jiricek is overkill IMO and they wouldn't do it. Jiricek in a redraft probably goes #1 or #2 overall in that draft. I'm taking Jiricek over Slafkovsky, Gauthier, Wright and Cooley easily. Probably Nemec too. Heck, I'm probably taking him at 1OA. He's going to be a top pairing Dman and I like his game more than Nemec... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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