[RUMOUR] Carolina looking to make major moves

[NMHockey]

6 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

No. It’s Carolina giving up a great player and a high pick for a bunch of spare parts and a cap dump 

As I said. They. Need. Cap. Space. They. Cannot. Re-sign. Pesce. Regardless. They. Have. Limited. Leverage. Look at the

Patrick Kane trade and many others as examples of teams running out of leverage. 

You can't seem to wrap your mind around that.. You also called replacing a 3rd round pick for a player that walked a spare part. You also called a recently turned 24 year old young powerplay quarterback who battled back from injuries off of two brutal cross-checks, a spare part. You also called a 23 year old, Hobey Baker nominee power forward who Vancouver worked for months to sign (and Allvin flew to Boston multiple times to meet with him and his family), a spare part.

Then you called Beauvillier just a cap dump which is exactly what people in Vancouver tried calling him after the Horvat trade. Beauvillier came here and was given the bigger role he deserves and posted 20 points in 33 games and was a great locker room presence. Get real man.

[spook007]

57 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

Hronek is three years younger and already had two 38 point outputs in not even full seasons while playing on a rebuilding bottom feeder. Pesce has one 30 point season at best this past season and plays a far more shutdown-type game. Hronek is also quite smart and effective in his own zone as well so all in all you cannot compare their value.

Point was if you turn the picture around, it doesn't sound too enticing. Even if Hronek is younger etc., it would take a better return to give up a top 4 dman + a 2nd... or at least I would want a better return. 

[spook007]

2 hours ago, coryberg said:

I wouldn't trade Hronek (3 years younger RFA) for Pesce (UFA)

Ok, but if we had Pesce, would you trade him + a 2nd for that return? 

[qwijibo]

8 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

As I said. They. Need. Cap. Space. They. Cannot. Re-sign. Pesce. Regardless. They. Have. Limited. Leverage. Look at the

Patrick Kane trade and many others as examples of teams running out of leverage. 

You can't seem to wrap your mind around that.. You also called replacing a 3rd round pick for a player that walked a spare part. You also called a recently turned 24 year old young powerplay quarterback who battled back from injuries off of two brutal cross-checks, a spare part. You also called a 23 year old, Hobey Baker nominee power forward who Vancouver worked for months to sign (and Allvin flew to Boston multiple times to meet with him and his family), a spare part.

Then you called Beauvillier just a cap dump which is exactly what people in Vancouver tried calling him after the Horvat trade. Beauvillier came here and was given the bigger role he deserves and posted 20 points in 33 games and was a great locker room presence. Get real man.

I called Poolman a cap dump.  Regardless. You’re not offering value and Carolina is under no pressure to move Pesce.  Even if they were they aren’t limited to dealing with Vancouver.  They aren’t required to take whatever scraps Vancouver throws their way 

[Gawdzukes]

17 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

I think you're wrong on this point. CAR are not in any cap trouble. Pesce is already signed for this upcoming season. And trading a pending UFA top 4 RD for a pending UFA forward that probably can't even crack their lineup doesn't help their chances this season in any way. CAR will likely keep Pesce, he will be the perfect pairing to Orlov.

This

should

be

blatantly

obvious

[NMHockey]

23 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

I think you're wrong on this point. CAR are not in any cap trouble. Pesce is already signed for this upcoming season. And trading a pending UFA top 4 RD for a pending UFA forward that probably can't even crack their lineup doesn't help their chances this season in any way. CAR will likely keep Pesce, he will be the perfect pairing to Orlov.

You have not been paying attention. Carolina after fully filling out their roster and adding the additional skilled forwards they need will not be cap compliant. The negotiations with extending Pesce have not gone well and it's been reported that Buffalo, Edmonton, Vancouver are three teams with interest in acquiring him. The deal was not just for Beauvillier and Beauvillier not even cracking their lineup is comical...

 

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by NMHockey

[qwijibo]

2 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

You have not been paying attention. Carolina after fully filling out their roster and adding the additional skilled forwards they need will not be cap compliant. The negotiations with extending Pesce have not gone well and it's been reported that Buffalo, Edmonton, Vancouver are three teams with interest in acquiring him, The deal was not just for Beauvillier and Beauvillier not even cracking their lineup is comical...

 

 

If that crap offer was all it would take to get Pesce the deal would be signed sealed and delivered already 

[Gawdzukes]

2 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

You have not been paying attention. Carolina after fully filling out their roster and adding the additional skilled forwards they need will not be cap compliant. The negotiations with extending Pesce have not gone well and it's been reported that Buffalo, Edmonton, Vancouver are three teams with interest in acquiring him. The deal was not just for Beauvillier and Beauvillier not even cracking their lineup is comical...

 

 

I'm curious. Who is he booting off the roster and where is he playing? He'd be in the pressbox I would think. Especially if he's not up to speed on Brind'Amour's style.

[NMHockey]

12 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

I called Poolman a cap dump.  Regardless. You’re not offering value and Carolina is under no pressure to move Pesce.  Even if they were they aren’t limited to dealing with Vancouver.  They aren’t required to take whatever scraps Vancouver throws their way 

I've broken down the value for you over and over and very simply. You continue to call a player like Beauvillier, two quality prospects, and a 3rd + 4th "scraps". Sorry but your perception is extremely distorted. And as much as I like Brett Pesce and he's a former Rutherford draft pick who is an ideal Hughes pairing partner; you are acting like he's

Drew Doughty and that Carolina is going to treat him as such. No. They would love to keep him but will get any value they can. Vancouver calling them up and saying we will do a fair deal with you to get Brett Pesce but also help give you $3,600,000 in extra cap space (which you need). We will give you Anthony Beauvillier at 50% retention, two of our best prospects. And we will also replace your 2026 3rd if you swap that Philadelphia 2024 2nd for New Jerseys 2024 4th. That is a great deal for them,

[BigTramFan]

8 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

You have not been paying attention. Carolina after fully filling out their roster and adding the additional skilled forwards they need will not be cap compliant. The negotiations with extending Pesce have not gone well and it's been reported that Buffalo, Edmonton, Vancouver are three teams with interest in acquiring him. The deal was not just for Beauvillier and Beauvillier not even cracking their lineup is comical...

 

 

Teravainen Aho Jarvis

Svechnikov Kotkaniemi Necas

Bunting Staal Fast

Martinook Drury Noesen

 

Where do you see Beauvillier slotting in on this roster?

 

I fully understand the Pesce situation in CAR thank you very much.

 

There is a difference between media reports and the real world

[NMHockey]

18 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I'm curious. Who is he booting off the roster and where is he playing? He'd be in the pressbox I would think. Especially if he's not up to speed on Brind'Amour's style.

Their current forward group is..

 

Svechnikov -Aho- Teravainen

Bunting -Kotkaniemi- Necas

Martinook -Staal- Jarvis

Drury -Noesen- Fast

 

Martinook is ideally a 4th line forward and 

Drury is not full-time ready and was only up because of their forward group being decimated by injuries in the playoffs.

Until last season Noesen has also not shown he is a dependable full-time NHL bottom nine player.

 

Their lineup could be this with a proven playoff performer like Beauvillier AND the added cap space from my trade to sign Tarasenko as well.

 

Svechnikov -Aho- Teravainen 

Tarasenko -Kotkaniemi- Bunting

Beauvillier -Jarvis- Necas

Martinook -Staal- Fast

                Noesen

 

Now THAT is a cup run level of depth for forwards. @BigTramFan This is how Beauvillier fits in. Don't know why I had to explain that for you...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by NMHockey

[BigTramFan]

5 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

I've broken down the value for you over and over and very simply. You continue to call a player like Beauvillier, two quality prospects, and a 3rd + 4th "scraps". Sorry but your perception is extremely distorted. And as much as I like Brett Pesce and he's a former Rutherford draft pick who is an ideal Hughes pairing partner; you are acting like he's

Drew Doughty and that Carolina is going to treat him as such. No. They would love to keep him but will get any value they can. Vancouver calling them up and saying we will do a fair deal with you to get Brett Pesce but also help give you $3,600,000 in extra cap space (which you need). We will give you Anthony Beauvillier at 50% retention, two of our best prospects. And we will also replace your 2026 3rd if you swap that Philadelphia 2024 2nd for New Jerseys 2024 4th. That is a great deal for them,

So many things wrong with this...

 

- CAR do not appear to have any need for Beauvillier on their roster

- Beauvillier at 50% retention is maybe worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick in his own

- Pesce (if they decide to trade him) is worth a 1st round pick or equivalent

- Don't see why CAR adds a 2nd + 4th and we add a 3rd. To me it's like CAR trading a 1st + 2nd + 4th in return for a 3rd + 3rd

- CAR will not be trading a top 4 Dman unless they have a replacement in the works (which will come with their own significant cap hit)

- With Pearson reportedly ready to play next season, VAN doesn't have the cap space to trade Beau (50%) for Pesce

- Not sure where you get $3.6m in cap space...$4.025m out + $2.075m in = $1.95m out

[BigTramFan]

6 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

Martinook is ideally a 4th line forward and 

 

Their lineup could be this with a proven playoff performer like Beauvillier AND the added cap space from my trade to sign Tarasenko as well.

 

Svechnikov -Aho- Teravainen 

Tarasenko -Kotkaniemi- Bunting

Beauvillier -Jarvis- Necas

Martinook -Staal- Fast

                Noesen

 

Now THAT is a cup run level of depth for forwards. @BigTramFan This is how Beauvillier fits in. Don't know why I had to explain that for you...

Jarvis isn't a center.

 

12 pts in 15 playoff games for Martinook last season. Beauvillier isn't pushing him out.

 

What does their D look like based on what they can afford after these changes?

 

Slavin Burns

Orlov Chatfield

Skjei Coghlan

 

Hmm not exactly a contender D corps. Don't know why I had to explain that to you.

[NMHockey]

25 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

So many things wrong with this...

 

- CAR do not appear to have any need for Beauvillier on their roster

- Beauvillier at 50% retention is maybe worth a 2nd or 3rd round pick in his own

- Pesce (if they decide to trade him) is worth a 1st round pick or equivalent

- Don't see why CAR adds a 2nd + 4th and we add a 3rd. To me it's like CAR trading a 1st + 2nd + 4th in return for a 3rd + 3rd

- CAR will not be trading a top 4 Dman unless they have a replacement in the works (which will come with their own significant cap hit)

- With Pearson reportedly ready to play next season, VAN doesn't have the cap space to trade Beau (50%) for Pesce

- Not sure where you get $3.6m in cap space...$4.025m out + $2.075m in = $1.95m out

-CAR has a need for any skilled forward they can get. A proven clutch playoff scorer like Beauvillier who they're very familiar with in their conference is not what they need?

 

-Beauvillier is easily worth a 2nd and at full 50% retention is easily worth even a low 1st. 

Thus Beauvillier + Rathbone + McDonough +
3rd + 4th + $3,600,000 in cap space is worth Pesce and a 2nd (a 2nd they essentially got for free in the DeAngelo to Philadelphia trade)

{PS I had us trading a 3rd and a 4th. Not them trading a 4th as well}.

 

-Speaking of "CAR would need a replacement for Pesce" and speaking of them getting that 2nd (plus a 3rd and 4th) in the DeAngelo trade. They are re-acquiring DeAngelo from Philadelphia at 50% retained tomorrow for one prospect... The league will finally let the deal go through then. So there's Pesces replacement and also still cap space cleared. Not to mention Chatfield and Coghlan are two young and very cheap RHDs who are ready for bigger roles.

 

-It's been reported that Allvins claims of Pearson being ready are not accurate and he still may start on LTIR. Regardless Vancouver will be clearing more cap space and they will be moving Garland and have been trying to. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by NMHockey

[5nothincanucksohno]

14 hours ago, spook007 said:

Would you do it the other way around?

 

          Hronek + 2nd

          for 

 

             F Anthony Beauvillier (50% retained)

            D Jack Rathbone

            F Aidan McDonough

            D Tucker Poolman (LTIR cap space)

            (VAN) 2026 3rd Round Pick

            (NJD) 2024 4th Round Pick

 

I know, I wouldn't.....

 

Hronek is an RFA next year so a factor...but fully agree, that is not the package that will get Pesce. 

[NMHockey]

2 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

Jarvis isn't a center.

 

12 pts in 15 playoff games for Martinook last season. Beauvillier isn't pushing him out.

 

What does their D look like based on what they can afford after these changes?

 

Slavin Burns

Orlov Chatfield

Skjei Coghlan

 

Hmm not exactly a contender D corps. Don't know why I had to explain that to you.

Jarvis can play center and so can Necas (Necas was drafted as one). They were willing to put Martinook on waivers at the start of last season to create cap space. I had Martinook on the 4th line so Beauvillier was not "pushing him out". They are re-acquiring DeAngelo at 50% retained tomorrow and I will be back here to stick that in your face because you need to see things right in your face to fully understand them apparently.

 

Slavin - Burns

Orlov - DeAngelo

Skjei - Chatfield

Rathbone? - Coghlan

 

Don't know why I had to explain that to you.

[D.B Cooper]

2 hours ago, NMHockey said:

Maybe in your mind .....

Nah dude.  
That is an awful proposal and everyone but you seems to know that.  
 

It’s only July and I already can’t wait for these kids to go back to school!

[BigTramFan]

19 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

Jarvis can play center and so can Necas (Necas was drafted as one). They were willing to put Martinook on waivers at the start of last season to create cap space. I had Martinook on the 4th line so Beauvillier was not "pushing him out". They are re-acquiring DeAngelo at 50% retained tomorrow and I will be back here to stick that in your face because you need to see things right in your face to fully understand them apparently.

 

Slavin - Burns

Orlov - DeAngelo

Skjei - Chatfield

Rathbone? - Coghlan

 

Don't know why I had to explain that to you.

Jarvis has taken 51 faceoffs in his NHL career. He lost 31 of them.

 

Deangelo is not a top 4 Dman. He is a PP specialist that can't defend to save himself. He is not a Pesce replacement.

 

I predict that CAR will trade for Deangelo, so feel free to stick that in my face, but they will not move out Pesce unless they have a true top 4 Dman to replace him.

 

If you want to know whether your proposed trade woudl be accepted by CAR, you should post it on Capfriendly and see what CAR fans have to say about it. 

 

This is how their D corps will look after a Deangelo trade:

 

Slavin Burns

Orlov Pesce

Skjei Deangelo

(LD depth, Chatfield)

 

The LD depth will be at league minimum.

 

This leaves $2m cap space to add one forward to their existing cup calibre lineup. 

 

There is a small chance they can convince Tarasenko to sign for $2m x 1, but I think Vlad will be looking for more $. I could see them settling for someone like Nosek, provides speed, size, PK ability, center depth and can move up the lineup if required.

 

Predicted final lineup:

 

Teravainen Aho Jarvis

Bunting Necas Svechnikov

Martinook Staal Fast

Nosek Kotkaniemi Noesen

(Drury)

 

Slavin Burns

Orlov Pesce

Skjei Deangelo

(LD depth, Chatfield)

 

Anderson (Raanta)

[ilduce39]

I know Carolina are notorious penny pinchers but they have a legit cup contender roster right now.
 

If I were them I’d hang on to Pesce and make that decision at the trade deadline. 
 

If we really wanted Pesce I’d dangle our unprotected 2024 1st at them and see if they’d take Myers back with enough retention that the cap hits evened out (OR a winger if they’d prefer.). See if they feel like gambling.  
 

We don’t have a 2nd or the prospect depth to offer anything else.  Unprotected 1st from a team that’s missed the playoffs for most of the past decade.  Do you feel lucky? 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, ilduce39 said:

I know Carolina are notorious penny pinchers but they have a legit cup contender roster right now.
 

If I were them I’d hang on to Pesce and make that decision at the trade deadline. 
 

If we really wanted Pesce I’d dangle our unprotected 2024 1st at them and see if they’d take Myers back with enough retention that the cap hits evened out (OR a winger if they’d prefer.). See if they feel like gambling.  
 

We don’t have a 2nd or the prospect depth to offer anything else.  Unprotected 1st from a team that’s missed the playoffs for most of the past decade.  Do you feel lucky? 

I mean it worked with the Miller trade.

 

Two times “lucky”?