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AV needs to let him play


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#61 Clonedanielsedin

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:32 AM

Unleash the fury.
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#62 oldnews

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:44 AM

Kassian will determine how much Kassian plays - and AV will use him accordingly, as he does with all his young players.
As long as Kassian plays the solid two-way game he showed he is capable of, AV will be happy to give him all the opportunity he can - after all, there was probably no one happier on trade deadline day to be getting Kassian than AV. Kassian is also in a different situation than Hodgson - aside from Hansen, he is the only other natural right winger on the roster. If the Canucks sign Doan, it will likely effect Kassian's ice time, but if they don't, there is a great opportunity for Kassian as a young player on an otherwise veteran club. Regardless, he will get some of the best coaching there is.
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#63 Scoobydooby

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 01:11 AM

Although, if we do sign Doan, and depending what we get back from the Luongo deal (If it happens), he may have to spend most of the year in the minors.

Sedin - Sedin - Doan
Booth - Kesler - Burrows
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Raymond - Malhotra - Weise

Not much room available


ugh Raymond on the fourth? say it isnt so...
id take kassian on the fourth line anyday over raymond
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#64 dura_mater

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 01:28 AM

Not sure what kassian did to get the crazy respect you all show for him. but if you are willing to bend over that easy for someone that has accomplished nothing in the nhl it will be easy for MG to pull the wool over your eyes for years to come.


As opposed to Cody Hodgson who did.....?

Don't see what the problem is with people getting excited about our prospects/young players.
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#65 xCANUCKAHOLICx

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 04:52 AM

av should coach kids lol im drunk but damn he doesnt like to play his guns
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#66 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 05:26 AM

What you said still doesn't change the fact that you are praising a kid for no good reason at all, he is not the next coming of jesus so please dont treat him as such.


LOL And Hodgson is????

I remember at the begining of the season...

"Hodgson is a bust"

"He will be a third liner at best"


Then during the season...

"Hodgson is better than Kesler"

"Hodgson has a top 5 shot in the league no doubt" ( :picard: for whoever made that thread)

And who could forget when everyone was calling him Cody Godson???


This is the samething, It's not surprising no one has respect for Kass, they didn't for Cody "Godson" either.

Can't wait till he turns heads and everyone jumps on his bandwagon.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 29 July 2012 - 05:29 AM.

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#67 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 05:44 AM

Play a solid two way game and you get ice time. He's done it with everybody from Kesler and Burrows to Raymond and Hansen that has developed under him.


If that's the case then why does Raymond get Ice Time?

AV is biased and I'm getting tired of him playing favorites.

if a young player plays well, there is no change in the ice time, unless that player gets less.
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#68 Gumballthechewy

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 09:29 AM

Not sure what kassian did to get the crazy respect you all show for him. but if you are willing to bend over that easy for someone that has accomplished nothing in the nhl it will be easy for MG to pull the wool over your eyes for years to come.


Yeah, he's proven nothing at the NHL level so let's bury him in the AHL along with Schneider as well seeing as he hasn't proven anything either....
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#69 Karlsson`s Flo

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 09:51 AM

I loved Kassian and Martin chucking fists. That's a good ole time hockey fight
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#70 Karlsson`s Flo

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 09:57 AM

If that's the case then why does Raymond get Ice Time?

AV is biased and I'm getting tired of him playing favorites.

if a young player plays well, there is no change in the ice time, unless that player gets less.


Ya AV is pretty biased. I mean, like, why would give guys ice time that play a 200ft game rather the guys who are defensively liable on the ice because they haven't developed that part of their game? Clearly, AV favors the two-way players over the others. What BS.
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#71 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:02 AM

Ya AV is pretty biased. I mean, like, why would give guys ice time that play a 200ft game rather the guys who are defensively liable on the ice because they haven't developed that part of their game? Clearly, AV favors the two-way players over the others. What BS.


You think Raymond is a great defensive player?

He can kill penalties because of his speed and skating abililty, people give him too much credit for his defensive play, I think he isn't really all that defensive at all, He just uses his skating ability.

So that being said offensively if someone is playing better than Raymond why would AV give Raymond that time isn't of the younger player who is playing better?

And I love Booth, I defend him non-stop but he isn't A+ defensively either.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 29 July 2012 - 10:03 AM.

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#72 komodo1970

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:46 AM

Kassian may not have found his stride at the end of last season, but from what I'm hearing, he's getting himself into the best shape of his life.To me he's showing how serious he's taking next season and how bad he wants to be an important part of our success.

I kind of feel for the kid. He was traded at the end of the season for a guy that Vancouver fans loved and thought was going to be here for a long time. Even the players themselves didn't seem to see it coming. I really wasn't surprised that he never really got comfortable. Vancouver is a pressure pot to play in. Every game is scrutinised and the players are put under a microscope, being judged for every play they make or miss.

I think, with a full training camp under his belt and a fair chance to actually get to know his teammates he will find where he fits. I believe he will have a solid season. He showed flashes of his potential last year but, unfortunately more often than not, he couldn't finnish. I hope that changes this year for both himself and the team.
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#73 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:00 AM

Don't worry Zack Kassian fans, MG will make AV play him in offensive type roles, just to show case him enough, and then he will be traded for a player to help the Canucks for their playoff run! So don't worry Kassian fans MG will eventually make AV play him, you will see him play sometime!
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#74 Baggins

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:03 AM

If that's the case then why does Raymond get Ice Time?

AV is biased and I'm getting tired of him playing favorites.

if a young player plays well, there is no change in the ice time, unless that player gets less.


Raymond plays quite well defensively. When he first came up he'd get moved to the third or fourth line and found himself benched when he floated defensively. And it wouldn't matter if he scored a goal in the game if he didn't back check he'd lose ice time. AV has done it with every prospect including the ones that are now veterans on the team. Kesler, Burrows and Hansen all went through the same process. That tells me it not a case of playing favorites. It's simply a teaching tool.

Veterans will always get more slack than prospects.
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#75 Drybone

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:08 AM

Don't worry Zack Kassian fans, MG will make AV play him in offensive type roles, just to show case him enough, and then he will be traded for a player to help the Canucks for their playoff run! So don't worry Kassian fans MG will eventually make AV play him, you will see him play sometime!


:sadno:
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#76 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:15 AM

Raymond plays quite well defensively. When he first came up he'd get moved to the third or fourth line and found himself benched when he floated defensively. And it wouldn't matter if he scored a goal in the game if he didn't back check he'd lose ice time. AV has done it with every prospect including the ones that are now veterans on the team. Kesler, Burrows and Hansen all went through the same process. That tells me it not a case of playing favorites. It's simply a teaching tool.

Veterans will always get more slack than prospects.


Last time I checked Kesler and Burrows both played under Marc Crawford first in their first NHL season, actually Kesler played in the 2003-04 for 28 games, but both played in 2005-06 Marc Crawfords last year as the Canucks head coach.
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#77 Baggins

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:19 AM

You think Raymond is a great defensive player?

He can kill penalties because of his speed and skating abililty, people give him too much credit for his defensive play, I think he isn't really all that defensive at all, He just uses his skating ability.

So that being said offensively if someone is playing better than Raymond why would AV give Raymond that time isn't of the younger player who is playing better?

And I love Booth, I defend him non-stop but he isn't A+ defensively either.


Which is why Booth rarely sees the ice 4 on 4 in OT and Raymond does. Raymond has become a good back checker and pretty good in his own end. Which is also why Raymond plays PK and Booth doesn't. It isn't rocket science.

It's not like Kassian wasn't given opportunities. He got Sedin time, 2nd line, third line and then wound up on the forth line. He not only wasn't producing he wasn't as defensively sound. AV will give players time to work out of a slump as long as they play hard both directions. But if you're in a slump and a defensive liability you will lose ice time. And as I've said many times, veterans will always get more slack than prospects.
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#78 Drybone

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:22 AM

Which is why Booth rarely sees the ice 4 on 4 in OT and Raymond does. Raymond has become a good back checker and pretty good in his own end. Which is also why Raymond plays PK and Booth doesn't. It isn't rocket science.

It's not like Kassian wasn't given opportunities. He got Sedin time, 2nd line, third line and then wound up on the forth line. He not only wasn't producing he wasn't as defensively sound. AV will give players time to work out of a slump as long as they play hard both directions. But if you're in a slump and a defensive liability you will lose ice time. And as I've said many times, veterans will always get more slack than prospects.


Baggins hes only 21 years old . Lets let the kid develop. Wait until hes 25 before we judge
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#79 Baggins

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:23 AM

Last time I checked Kesler and Burrows both played under Marc Crawford first in their first NHL season, actually Kesler played in the 2003-04 for 28 games, but both played in 2005-06 Marc Crawfords last year as the Canucks head coach.


Both had one full season under their belts when AV took over. They were both still developing players. They both got the AV treatment for their two way play. Kesler to a lesser extend as he was a two way player all along. But even Kesler lost ice time and got moved to the 4th line from time to time.
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#80 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:28 AM

Which is why Booth rarely sees the ice 4 on 4 in OT and Raymond does. Raymond has become a good back checker and pretty good in his own end. Which is also why Raymond plays PK and Booth doesn't. It isn't rocket science.

It's not like Kassian wasn't given opportunities. He got Sedin time, 2nd line, third line and then wound up on the forth line. He not only wasn't producing he wasn't as defensively sound. AV will give players time to work out of a slump as long as they play hard both directions. But if you're in a slump and a defensive liability you will lose ice time. And as I've said many times, veterans will always get more slack than prospects.


It's not like these are terrible defensively, Booth, Kassian and whoever else are good enough defensively to play a regular shift, top 6 of wherever there are effective as players.

Players in the NHL are good enough defensively to play a regular shift like anyone, or else they wouldn't be at this level, the only expections are guys like Alex Semin who have talent that is far superior to alot of players.


As for Kassian he had a good game agianst Buffalo when he got some 2nd line time, he scored, he was good on the forecheck, had a good game. Then the next game he was back on the 4th line and Raymond was back on the 2nd for whichever reason and I was puzzled by the move.

Raymond on the other hand isn't good enough to play in the top 6 the way he has been playing and he has been given endless opportunities when players are playing better than him and deserve it more, if he is so good defensively then I have no problem with him being on the 4th line and contributing that way but he can't play on the 2nd and Higgins & Hansen are great on the 3rd line.


And really if we are basing ice time on defensive play then Manny Malhotra should be playing 20 minutes a night, not trying to insult him because I am a fan of his but I'm using that as an example to say there is more than just defensive play, and Kassian and Booth are good enough defensively that they should be put in the best spot to maximize the other parts of there game.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 29 July 2012 - 11:29 AM.

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#81 Baggins

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:30 AM

Baggins hes only 21 years old . Lets let the kid develop. Wait until hes 25 before we judge


What? You think I'm writing Kassian off? Not at all. I just think AV's development system works. Teach them all they have to play solid both directions and use ice time as the penalty/reward. Raymonds defensive play took a huge leap over two seasons. Kassian has plenty of time to develop.
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#82 bigpush

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:36 AM

Last time I checked Kesler and Burrows both played under Marc Crawford first in their first NHL season, actually Kesler played in the 2003-04 for 28 games, but both played in 2005-06 Marc Crawfords last year as the Canucks head coach.


And guess who the coach was of the Moose when they were breaking into the NHL. AV expects his players to be responsible and has shown that he rewards guys he trusts in the defensive zone. Glass, Tavev, Hansen, Raymond, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa are all players who have been developed by AV. Hopefully Schroeder, Kassian, Jensen , Gaunce etc will be the next group but no guarantees. Kassian's biggest issue last year was his conditioning IMO and it seems like he has been working on it this off season. Worst case scenario is he spends a bit more time in the AHL learning AV's style of play from Arniel in Chicago. Like many have said here, he is only 21 so why follow that up by saying rush him into a top 6 role in the NHL?
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#83 Drybone

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:38 AM

Last time I checked Kesler and Burrows both played under Marc Crawford first in their first NHL season, actually Kesler played in the 2003-04 for 28 games, but both played in 2005-06 Marc Crawfords last year as the Canucks head coach.


They both also played in Manitoba and were given as much as they can handle. If Zach cant get enough time up here then send him to chicago to get 20 min a night. Lets move him forward . He is going to be awesome for us !!!!~


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#84 Baggins

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:48 AM

It's not like these are terrible defensively, Booth, Kassian and whoever else are good enough defensively to play a regular shift, top 6 of wherever there are effective as players.

Players in the NHL are good enough defensively to play a regular shift like anyone, or else they wouldn't be at this level, the only expections are guys like Alex Semin who have talent that is far superior to alot of players.


As for Kassian he had a good game agianst Buffalo when he got some 2nd line time, he scored, he was good on the forecheck, had a good game. Then the next game he was back on the 4th line and Raymond was back on the 2nd for whichever reason and I was puzzled by the move.

Raymond on the other hand isn't good enough to play in the top 6 the way he has been playing and he has been given endless opportunities when players are playing better than him and deserve it more, if he is so good defensively then I have no problem with him being on the 4th line and contributing that way but he can't play on the 2nd and Higgins & Hansen are great on the 3rd line.


And really if we are basing ice time on defensive play then Manny Malhotra should be playing 20 minutes a night, not trying to insult him because I am a fan of his but I'm using that as an example to say there is more than just defensive play, and Kassian and Booth are good enough defensively that they should be put in the best spot to maximize the other parts of there game.


If you are giving up two quality chances for every one you get should you get more ice time? As I said, AV rewards the two way game. Always has. Raymond was given a lot of chances. But he wasn't on the 2nd line the whole season was he. He got moved to the 3rd and 4th line. People never seem to remember that.

I don't honestly see any line set for the coming season other than Sedin/Sedin/Burrows. Kassian has dropped some weight and been working out hard. Raymond has had a full offseason to work out. Both Schroeder and Jensen could surprise. Then there's the wild card of what Lou may fetch and who may be included with him in the trade. I'll play the wait and see game as opposed to saying who should be where because they "deserve it" before even seeing how they perform heading into the season. But keep in mind prospects usually have to be head and shoulders above a veteran to steal a spot. The only free spot for the taking is Keslers to start the season at this point.
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#85 Drybone

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:52 AM

What? You think I'm writing Kassian off? Not at all. I just think AV's development system works. Teach them all they have to play solid both directions and use ice time as the penalty/reward. Raymonds defensive play took a huge leap over two seasons. Kassian has plenty of time to develop.


I know you do your homework but we are starting to see a log jam of players. We have to let Schroeder and Kassian play, even if we repress Connaution and Sauve one more year.

Im even worried about Lack.

Even if they make mistakes, as long as the effort is there we need to play both Kassian and Schroeder . I think they need the development. I know AV has a good head on his shoulders but im getting a little nervous.
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#86 ChuckNORRIS4Cup

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 11:56 AM

And guess who the coach was of the Moose when they were breaking into the NHL. AV expects his players to be responsible and has shown that he rewards guys he trusts in the defensive zone. Glass, Tavev, Hansen, Raymond, Burrows, Kesler, Bieksa are all players who have been developed by AV. Hopefully Schroeder, Kassian, Jensen , Gaunce etc will be the next group but no guarantees. Kassian's biggest issue last year was his conditioning IMO and it seems like he has been working on it this off season. Worst case scenario is he spends a bit more time in the AHL learning AV's style of play from Arniel in Chicago. Like many have said here, he is only 21 so why follow that up by saying rush him into a top 6 role in the NHL?


Ya AV was the coach of the Moose the year both Burrows and Kesler played on the Canucks roster with Marc Crawford as the coach, so technically they weren't coached by AV in the Moose because they were on the Canucks roster. AV only coached the Moose for 1 year the year both Burrows and Kesler played with Vancouver, ok yes Burrows did play 33 games for AV in the Moose before he joined the Canucks, I'll give you that. Anyways it's obvious AV likes players who play the game like how he did when he played in the NHL, AV was a defenseman, who played a tough guy type of roll, and to why he likes the grinders and defensive liability players, because he grew up playing as a defenseman. This is one of the reason why I'm not a fan of AV, he coaches the game the way he played a defensive minded player/coach who has no offensive talent, and it's frustrating when you can see how much offensive talent this team has had for years, but because the coach isn't offensive minded, he'd rather still play the more defensive game, it's just boring and a waste I think.

People will try and still argue the fact the Canucks had the best goals scored for blah blah blah, the fact that they managed a lot of that from their PP and why they were first in the league on the PP, but when it comes to 5 on 5 this team is just plain boring, and that's because they don't have a coach with an offensive mind set. The only time the game gets exciting when it's 5 on 5 is when the Sedins come on, because you know they don't care they want to score and they have the talent to play in the opposing teams zone to try and generate offense. Sedins are so talented they can do this on their own, the rest of the team isn't as talented and to why coaching normally helps them out for this, but with our coach that can't happen, when all he cares about coaching is defense.

Edited by ChuckNORRIS4Cup, 29 July 2012 - 11:57 AM.

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#87 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:13 PM

If you are giving up two quality chances for every one you get should you get more ice time? As I said, AV rewards the two way game. Always has. Raymond was given a lot of chances. But he wasn't on the 2nd line the whole season was he. He got moved to the 3rd and 4th line. People never seem to remember that.


Yes and that's where he should have been, but for some reason he always got put back on that 2nd line and I doubt he ever earned one of those chances.

The thing MG seems to say is that the best players play, and that whoever is playing the best plays. Not you can play a larger role if you are completely out staging the veteran's, veteran's shouldn't have any advantage over younger players in that instance, if a younger player is playing better he should get that opportunity, and that's why the complaint on AV is that he doesn't give young players the chances they deserve

I don't honestly see any line set for the coming season other than Sedin/Sedin/Burrows. Kassian has dropped some weight and been working out hard. Raymond has had a full offseason to work out. Both Schroeder and Jensen could surprise. Then there's the wild card of what Lou may fetch and who may be included with him in the trade. I'll play the wait and see game as opposed to saying who should be where because they "deserve it" before even seeing how they perform heading into the season. But keep in mind prospects usually have to be head and shoulders above a veteran to steal a spot. The only free spot for the taking is Keslers to start the season at this point.


I do see some set lines, this is what I see in the top 9.

Daniel - Henrik - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - ?
Higgins - ? - Hansen

So we kind of have a log jam of players that could fill those spots, Raymond, Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen, Lappierre, even Manny for the third line spot if he gets his game back.

And I don't think Raymond fits in the line-up, he's either on the 2nd or the 4th, and if he can't play offensively the way he did that one year, then he should be on the 4th, which is a waste of him being there and it also takes that spot away from someone who fits that role better, which is why I think if he doesn't earn a top 6 role then we should move him, plus Kassian will be alot better and might be able to play there, plus all the unkowns with Doan and Luongo and maybe aqcuiring another forward (hopefully a center), but right now it seems like we might have too many top 9 wingers and it's not really a good thing.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 29 July 2012 - 12:14 PM.

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#88 Drybone

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:20 PM

Beautifully said.

Kass is a top end prospect and no need for him to follow others footsteps; he can simply make his own path.


Very well said. Zach will end up being Zach.

And I cant wait
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#89 bigpush

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:30 PM

Ya AV was the coach of the Moose the year both Burrows and Kesler played on the Canucks roster with Marc Crawford as the coach, so technically they weren't coached by AV in the Moose because they were on the Canucks roster. AV only coached the Moose for 1 year the year both Burrows and Kesler played with Vancouver, ok yes Burrows did play 33 games for AV in the Moose before he joined the Canucks, I'll give you that. Anyways it's obvious AV likes players who play the game like how he did when he played in the NHL, AV was a defenseman, who played a tough guy type of roll, and to why he likes the grinders and defensive liability players, because he grew up playing as a defenseman. This is one of the reason why I'm not a fan of AV, he coaches the game the way he played a defensive minded player/coach who has no offensive talent, and it's frustrating when you can see how much offensive talent this team has had for years, but because the coach isn't offensive minded, he'd rather still play the more defensive game, it's just boring and a waste I think.

People will try and still argue the fact the Canucks had the best goals scored for blah blah blah, the fact that they managed a lot of that from their PP and why they were first in the league on the PP, but when it comes to 5 on 5 this team is just plain boring, and that's because they don't have a coach with an offensive mind set. The only time the game gets exciting when it's 5 on 5 is when the Sedins come on, because you know they don't care they want to score and they have the talent to play in the opposing teams zone to try and generate offense. Sedins are so talented they can do this on their own, the rest of the team isn't as talented and to why coaching normally helps them out for this, but with our coach that can't happen, when all he cares about coaching is defense.


Fair enough I was thinking he was there in 04 but it was still Carlyle. I still feel he has done a good job at developing out players. I do disagree with the other statements. Sedin's are so successful because of the way AV uses them. They are always put into situations where they have best chance of producing ( offensive zone starts) and rarely have to take defensive zone starts. AV also tries to deploy them against the oppositions weakest D pairing whenever possible. When Kesler scored 40 goals and was dominating was because Malhotra's 3rd line was able to take the majority of defensive assignments and allow Kesler more offensive room.

AV doesn't like this style because he played as a tough defenseman in the NHL, he uses it because its successful.
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#90 bigpush

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:43 PM

I do see some set lines, this is what I see in the top 9.

Daniel - Henrik - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - ?
Higgins - ? - Hansen

So we kind of have a log jam of players that could fill those spots, Raymond, Kassian, Schroeder, Jensen, Lappierre, even Manny for the third line spot if he gets his game back.


Jensen doesn't have much of a shot, but I do think Ebbett will be one of the guys competing for the 3C position ( Lapierre, Malhotra, Ebbett, Schroeder in that order I think). I think its really depends on how AV is going to dictate ice time this year, if he wants a 3rd line for shutdown Lapierre most likely has the spot, if Kesler's line is going to be handling the top lines than Schroeder or Ebbett have a shot. I think Raymond makes the top 6 before Kassian to start the year just based off of Raymond being resigned, If he wasn't slotted in I don't think the Canucks resign him.
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