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Harper Prepares to Hand the Keys to the Vault Over to China (merged)


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#1 The Manatee King

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:46 PM

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ!

How is this not all over the news, and why does nobody care?

http://elizabethmaym...ign-investment/

"Elizabeth May: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to request an emergency debate on an issue of great importance to the future of Canada.
During the Prime Minister’s visit to China in February 2012, we learned of the existence of the Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the People’s Republic of China for the Promotion and Reciprocal Protection of Investments, an agreement with far-reaching implications for Canada’s sovereignty, security and democracy.

This agreement that we first learned of in February was then signed by the Prime Minister in Vladivostok at the APEC summit on September 9 but tabled before the House on September 26, the first time any parliamentarians had the chance to see the text. A 21-day clock is running on sitting days, which means we are now down to 18 sitting days before, as a matter of automatic decision-making within the Governor in Council, an agreement with far-reaching implications for the sovereignty of the country will become law. It is a treaty with the effect of legal force for a minimum of 15 years. If any future government wishes to get out of the onerous terms of this agreement with China, it would take a written notice of one year. It is not reciprocal but lopsided in the interests of Chinese rights to overturn and challenge Canadian laws and to seek damages from us. If any future government serves a one-year notice to get out of the agreement, any existing Chinese investments at the point of that notice would be further protected for another 15 years.The agreement is sweeping. I know that with 18 days remaining one might say where is the urgency. The urgency is that the governing party plans no debate in the House. There will be no vote in the House. I note that the official opposition has an opposition day motion tomorrow touching on one specific deal, the proposed takeover of Nexen by CNOOC, but that will not touch at all, in pith nor in substance, the far-reaching implications of a mandate for the Government of Canada to encourage Chinese investments in Canada. It is a mandate for the Canadian government to give national state-owned enterprises of Communist China equal treatment to any Canadian enterprises, but to give Chinese state-owned enterprises superior rights to any Canadian corporation in the case of any laws passed in our country and to have arbitration over claims for damages that will remain secret. The Canadian public will not know of them. I am shaken to my core by the depth and breadth of this motion that will not come before this House but merely before cabinet, and bind Canadians, municipal governments, provincial governments and federal governments for 15 years, Mr. Speaker, I beg of you to allow an emergency debate in the House.

The Speaker: I thank the hon. member for raising this issue. I appreciate the importance she attaches to the issue, but I do not find that it meets the test set out for emergency debates."


Here is Elizabeth May's petition:

http://elizabethmaym...PA-Petition.pdf

It must be mailed in, but in can be mailed postage free. Please take the time to sign this petition! I know a lot of people just don't care about politics, but if you take the time to sign this petition, it may just end up being one of the most important things you ever do.

Edited by The Manatee King, 07 October 2012 - 09:36 AM.

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#2 SkeeterHansen

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:04 PM

All I saw was manitees. +1.
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#3 Sharpshooter

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:28 PM

All I saw was manitees. +1.


OP, this is why it's not bigger news or why people don't seem to care.

The fact that this person couldn't take the few minutes to read the original post without being distracted by pictures in order to understand a real concern of what's occurring in their country, is symptomatic of what's afflicting the majority of the population in this country, in my opinion. Most are afflicted with apathy and ignorance, and they seem to wallow in it.

And you couldn't even bother spelling manatees properly. :picard:
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#4 Dral

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:40 AM

So..... prolly a little off topic, but what ARE the requirements for an emergency debate then?

And Sharpshooters reason for this not being in the news is silly :P If it were true, all you'd need to sell newspapers would be paragraphs of drivel coupled with pictures of manatees.

I for one, would like to actually see what this trade agreement fully entails. BRB - got a date with google.
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#5 Bob.Loblaw

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:05 AM

OP, this is why it's not bigger news or why people don't seem to care.

The fact that this person couldn't take the few minutes to read the original post without being distracted by pictures in order to understand a real concern of what's occurring in their country, is symptomatic of what's afflicting the majority of the population in this country, in my opinion. Most are afflicted with apathy and ignorance, and they seem to wallow in it.

And you couldn't even bother spelling manatees properly. :picard:


We're on a hockey forum. We care about hockey.
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#6 pimpcurtly

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:24 AM

We're on a hockey forum. We care about hockey.


A hockey forum is a pretty accurate depiction of the average Canadian. ;)
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#7 Kryten

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:26 AM

So..... prolly a little off topic, but what ARE the requirements for an emergency debate then?

And Sharpshooters reason for this not being in the news is silly :P If it were true, all you'd need to sell newspapers would be paragraphs of drivel coupled with pictures of manatees.

I for one, would like to actually see what this trade agreement fully entails. BRB - got a date with google.


You obviously/luckily don't visit Yahoo Canada's News Page, it's rife with manatees and BS. By manatees I of course mean the Kardashians. I blame Jerry Springer for all of it.


We're on a hockey forum.  We care about hockey.


You my friend must be lost as this is not a hockey forum, this is the off-topic forum.
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#8 Lancaster

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:37 AM

While I am all for investments coming from overseas, I'm not a big fan of Canadian companies potentially be purchased by the Chinese Government and/or their sovereign wealth funds.
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#9 nucklehead

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:35 AM

This what happens when you fill the house with pubescent WOW playing MPs. Canada's as good as dead.
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#10 Jai604

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:41 AM

What is this, I don't even.

Is this for real?

I am going to have to do some more researching and investigating on this subject. As another poster noted, what exactly is the criteria for an emergency debate? In my opinion, something of this magnitude should be debated upon and voted upon. How is that not happening?

Unless I'm completely missing the plot here.
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#11 The Manatee King

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:32 AM

Here is Elizabeth May's petition:

http://elizabethmaym...PA-Petition.pdf

It can be mailed in, postage free. This is an extremely important issue and will have a huge impact on Canada for generations. The fact that this is being kept from the public is horrifying. Why are the various news outlets not jumping all over this?
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#12 hsedin33

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:43 AM

I'm not exactly a political brain, this seems a bit confusing to me, what exactly is the issue that we are concerned about?
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#13 Dittohead

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:49 AM

I won't support anything by the green party.
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#14 Tearloch7

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:59 AM

I won't support anything by the green party.


:picard: .. clever positioning ..
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#15 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:24 AM

I'm not exactly a political brain, this seems a bit confusing to me, what exactly is the issue that we are concerned about?


The Chinese are buying up Canadian resource companies in order to take the resources out of Canada for their own use, and in some cases, like oil, take it out of Canada, refine it in China, and then sell our oil back to us at high price.

They're also heavily invested in real estate, oil, potash, mines, etc, and the Harper gov't is essentially allowing the piece-meal sale of Canada, bit by bit.

In a world where resources are scarce, don't you think we should at the least be in control of our own?
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#16 hsedin33

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:50 AM

The Chinese are buying up Canadian resource companies in order to take the resources out of Canada for their own use, and in some cases, like oil, take it out of Canada, refine it in China, and then sell our oil back to us at high price.

They're also heavily invested in real estate, oil, potash, mines, etc, and the Harper gov't is essentially allowing the piece-meal sale of Canada, bit by bit.

In a world where resources are scarce, don't you think we should at the least be in control of our own?


For sure.

Will this give our to-be Chinese overlords the right to lay oil pipes through BC?

Also I don't get the logic behind this 15 year deal, how does that benefit us at all? How did it end up in there? Makes no sense. The response of the young speaker was not good, even just his body language was shocking, frantically flipping through his pages not reading anything, looking down to the floor while talking and he just seemed out of breath and desperate to bury the situation. Something's not right here..

Edited by hsedin33, 07 October 2012 - 12:17 PM.

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#17 Sharpshooter

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:16 PM

For sure.

Will this give our to-be Chinese overlords the right to lay oil pipes through BC?

Also I don't get the logic behind this 15 year deal, how does that benefit us at all? How did it end up in there? Makes no sense.



Directly, no.

Indirectly, they'll be able to be a presence in Canada moreso, and continue to grease palms and buy more Canadian companies that have Canadian jobs, and use it against our gov't and local leaders as leverage. I mean, if I was a Chinese official, and I wanted the pipeline, i'd try to sweeten the money pot of elected Canadian officials in order to buy their compliance or loyalty, or i'd promise them a real cushy position on one of the companies' Board of Directors that comes with a large bonus and a sweet 6 or 7 figure salary, to do essentially nothing but rubber stamp what we want them to, OR, i'd use the jobs with the companies i've bought to hold the politicians hostage by threatening to lay-off workers and bring in cheaper seasonal or temporary ones while using other political operatives in blaming the politician for the unemployment rate and hold as the reason that there aren't any jobs, which essentially puts their own job at risk.

The Chinese gov't does not care about Canadians, Canadian jobs, Canada's future, your future, or mine. They want our resources and land and the Harper gov't is looking to sell, sell, sell.

I'm not suggesting that we go into full protectionist mode, but there has to be some safeguards over our natural resources as competition for resources is only going to grow, as will our country's needs, as we grow.
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#18 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:54 PM

It doesnt add up to me. Why did the Harper Govt agree to this in the first place? How are they or any other Canadian going to benefit from this deal?
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#19 hsedin33

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:27 PM

So from what I gather, the Chinese officials buy our resource companies and take Canadian resources for themselves. Is this agreement simply Harper saying he will allow Chinese officials to buy the companies or does the Canadian government own these companies? All I really get from this is that if any future Canadian government chooses to opt out, the Chinese will still own the rights to those resources and/or secret compensation for 15 years. I'm still unclear how it gives them more rights then Canadian business owners though. Is it that any law past that affects a Canadian organization will not affect a Chinese-owned Canadian corporation?
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#20 PlayingBurke

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:10 PM

Canada's sovereignty is in danger. Really? This song and dance again. Every time Canadian officials try to speak with other countries, all of a sudden Canadian sovereignty becomes an issue. Canadian's never even had sovereignty until our poorly written Constitution. Then, when Canada attempts to negotiate with another country--Canada's left cries foul. Canada's sovereignty is infringed because the Americans want to control our boarder security; Canada's sovereignty is infringed because China want's to purchase some resources from Canada. How about we look at a real issue, where Canada is actually fighting for their sovereignty--the Arctic. That is currently the only case in point where Canada is actually fighting for sovereignty.

This whole Chinese thing is nothing to do with Canadian sovereignty. This is a prime example to why the Green Party can only win one seat, because nobody takes them serious. They (The Green Party) does not know anything about International Trade, or economics. Harper's entire International Relations policy has been to open up trade with the Asia countries. Any classic Liberal supporter ought to be applauding Harper as he is simply walking down the "Third Option" path. Harper wants Canada to be less dependent upon the American economy. Therefore, he is attempting to open up relations with not only the Latin American countries, but more explicitly the Asia-Pacific countries--namely, China. It's not a bad idea since China is currently one of the more booming economies.

Nevertheless, why is it that if China wants to purchase our oil, that is logically follows that Canada loses it's sovereignty? Please explain. Perhaps China will refine it and sell it back to Canada, but doesn't the Americans already do that with us? That is the way of the World Economy. Perhaps it makes sense to sell that oil to Canada East, as many of the NDP are wanting. However, Canada does lose money by doing this and why would they want to do that when they can A) make more money selling it to other countries in larger quantities, and B) build diplomatic relations with other/newer countries. I cannot wait to hear how the Green Party will respond when the Americans come knocking on our door for our water, since the mid-west of America is on the brink of having no water at all. What, if Canada makes a deal to send water to America, will that infringe on Canadian Sovereignty too?

Let us not allow fear mongering and pure speculation to be our guide to determining whether a policy is sound or not.

And to answer the next question coming. Sure, let there be a debate in the House. I see no problem with that. I do not see any reason why we should not sell our resources to China, though. It is smart for our economic health. Many like to say "what if we run out, or shouldn't we save some for ourselves," and to answer that--THAT IS BAD POLICY and you are going to call more problems with this isolationist policy. Moreover, running out? I'd like to see the empirical data for that too.
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#21 Ovech Trick

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:14 PM

Meanwhile in America, the White House just sold the state of Oklahoma to China.
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#22 The Manatee King

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 06:11 PM

http://www2.macleans...the-fine-print/

http://www.greenpart...investment-deal
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#23 Monteeun

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 06:48 PM

Canada's sovereignty is in danger. Really? This song and dance again. Every time Canadian officials try to speak with other countries, all of a sudden Canadian sovereignty becomes an issue. Canadian's never even had sovereignty until our poorly written Constitution. Then, when Canada attempts to negotiate with another country--Canada's left cries foul. Canada's sovereignty is infringed because the Americans want to control our boarder security; Canada's sovereignty is infringed because China want's to purchase some resources from Canada. How about we look at a real issue, where Canada is actually fighting for their sovereignty--the Arctic. That is currently the only case in point where Canada is actually fighting for sovereignty.

This whole Chinese thing is nothing to do with Canadian sovereignty. This is a prime example to why the Green Party can only win one seat, because nobody takes them serious. They (The Green Party) does not know anything about International Trade, or economics. Harper's entire International Relations policy has been to open up trade with the Asia countries. Any classic Liberal supporter ought to be applauding Harper as he is simply walking down the "Third Option" path. Harper wants Canada to be less dependent upon the American economy. Therefore, he is attempting to open up relations with not only the Latin American countries, but more explicitly the Asia-Pacific countries--namely, China. It's not a bad idea since China is currently one of the more booming economies.

Nevertheless, why is it that if China wants to purchase our oil, that is logically follows that Canada loses it's sovereignty? Please explain. Perhaps China will refine it and sell it back to Canada, but doesn't the Americans already do that with us? That is the way of the World Economy. Perhaps it makes sense to sell that oil to Canada East, as many of the NDP are wanting. However, Canada does lose money by doing this and why would they want to do that when they can A) make more money selling it to other countries in larger quantities, and B) build diplomatic relations with other/newer countries. I cannot wait to hear how the Green Party will respond when the Americans come knocking on our door for our water, since the mid-west of America is on the brink of having no water at all. What, if Canada makes a deal to send water to America, will that infringe on Canadian Sovereignty too?

Let us not allow fear mongering and pure speculation to be our guide to determining whether a policy is sound or not.

And to answer the next question coming. Sure, let there be a debate in the House. I see no problem with that. I do not see any reason why we should not sell our resources to China, though. It is smart for our economic health. Many like to say "what if we run out, or shouldn't we save some for ourselves," and to answer that--THAT IS BAD POLICY and you are going to call more problems with this isolationist policy. Moreover, running out? I'd like to see the empirical data for that too.


Having a trade agreement with other nations is fine, but having our companies all controlled by others might be a problem. If China wants our resources they can buy it from us, no problem.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but i don't think its the selling of our stuff that is the problem.
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#24 Monteeun

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 06:49 PM

Meanwhile in America, the White House just sold the state of Oklahoma to China.


I dn't think even China wants Oklahoma. No offense.
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#25 nucklehead

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:23 PM

Meanwhile in America, the White House just sold the state of Oklahoma to China.


That's different. China already has them by the short ones.
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#26 The Manatee King

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 06:43 AM

https://www.greenpar...top-the-sellout

"
What Has Harper Done?

On September 9th, Prime Minister Stephen Harper signed an agreement with China, the Canada-China Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement. The agreement was kept from the Canadian public and Parliament until September 26th, 2012, when it was quietly made public by the Harper Conservatives.
Red Carpet for China

So what is the Canada-China investment agreement? Simply put, it is the most significant trade agreement signed by Canada since NAFTA. Only this time our “partner” is the communist government in Beijing, an authoritarian regime with an appalling record on human rights.
We at the Green Party of Canada believe there are many flaws in that agreement. And we think Canadians should know about them:
1. Open bar for Chinese state-owned enterprises

The Canada-China investment agreement means easier takeovers of Canadian assets, especially in the resource sector. In the context of the possible takeover of Nexen by the Chinese National Offshore Oil Company (CNOOC), it is crucial that we collectively pause to consider the wisdom of granting Chinese state-owned enterprises (SOEs) such an easy access to our natural resources.
2. Canadian laws vs. Chinese profits

The Canada-China investment agreement would allow Chinese companies (including state-owned enterprises) to sue federal or provincial governments over decisions that can limit their profits. Favorable rulings in favor of Chinese companies mean we collectively have to financially compensate the Chinese investor. It also means Canadian laws can be cancelled.
3. Back room deals

The Canada-China investment agreement would allow Chinese investors to sue Canada outside of Canadian courts. Special arbitrators would take the decisions. These arbitrators, unlike judges, do not have secure tenures or set salaries. Their decision cannot be subject to judicial review.
4. Right to be heard

Only the federal government is allowed to take part in the arbitration process. Provincial governments or Canadian companies, even if their interest are affected, do not gave the right to voice their concerns during the arbitration process.
5. China’s obsession for secrecy

The Canada-China investment agreement allows Chinese lawsuits to be kept secret. At any time, we will not know if we are being sued and who will decide the case. We will not know what our government is saying on our behalf. We will not know if Canada has been ordered to change government decisions. This is a complete U-turn for Canada who has always insisted on complete openness in investor-state arbitration, for example when signing the Canada-US-Mexico free trade deal."
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#27 Tearloch7

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:09 AM

If you build them…(mines)… they will come( workers) – from China.

Posted on October 4, 2011 by Laila

Sarbjit touched on a very important point in his letter, which is posted directly below.
Sarbjit states:
“In the coming years, jobs will require more skills and training, particularly in this region in forestry and in mining. We need more funding and a definitive plan for apprenticeship and skills training in the resource sector, especially with a call to open 8 new mines and expand 9 others. Who will be filling these positions? HD Mining near Tumbler Ridge has already received permission from HRSDC to hire 92 foreign workers for their proposed coal mine.”
Shocking. Absolutely shocking when you think of the ramification of Christy Clark’s big non-vision for defending and creating jobs in B.C.
Sarbjit was wonderful to also send along the links to the mining companies site that talks about these foreign workers being shipped over to work in a BC mine.
http://hdminingintl....Detail.asp?id=8


Seven approvals for foreign workers


HD Mines International’s permission to employ 92 foreign workers for a prospective underground mine near Tumbler Ridge is a result of seven separate approvals from Human Resources and Skills Development Canada (HRSDC).
Each of the seven positive labour market opinions (LMOs) was granted to Canadian Dehua International Mines Group (CDIMG) in mid-April, and each was evaluated on a case-by-case basis, “to ensure the employer is offering foreign nationals the prevailing wage rates, acceptable working conditions and that the entry of the temporary foreign worker will have a neutral or positive effect on the Canadian labour market,” said an HRSDC spokesperson.
Work permits are another matter, which will require permission from Citizenship and Immigration Canada. Those permits are likely to be granted by a Canada Border Services Agency officer at the worker’s point of entry, allowing each of the temporary foreign workers to start working when they arrive in Canada.
HD Mines, the joint venture recently formed between CDIMG and the Huiyong Group of mines, has six months to bring the workers to Tumbler Ridge before the LMOs expire.
While in Canada, the foreign workers will have the same rights and protections as Canadian citizens and permanent residents under applicable federal and provincial employment standards and collective bargaining agreements. The province is responsible for the enforcement of labour standards and assistance to workers regarding fair pay, hours of work, rest periods and general working conditions.
Asked how CDIMG was able to show their intent to hire Canadian workers, HRSDC explained all employers must provide proof of advertisement and the results of the efforts to recruit Canadians or permanent residents before being allowed to hire temporary foreign workers.
For the past several months, CDIMG has been advertising on Service Canada’s Job Bank and on numerous mining employment websites to fill underground mining, geologist, construction, and drilling positions for the Murray River project, an underground metallurgical coal mine with a projected 50-year mine life.
The proof includes copies of advertisements, number of Canadian applicants and why they were rejected. Records of the employers’ efforts should be kept for a minimum of two years, in the event that a Service Canada Officer contacts the employer to verify the advertising efforts.”

http://hdminingintl....Detail.asp?id=7


Joint venture HD Mines to develop Murray River project


A major underground coal mine in Tumbler Ridge took a step closer to reality last Thursday (June 2), as China’s Huiyong Holdings Group announced a new joint venture with Canadian Dehua International Mines Group (CDIMG) to develop the Murray River project.
“The important thing about Huiyong is that we have extensive experiences in community integration,” explained Yan Penggui, who will chair the new company. Once the legal paperwork clears, it will be called HD Mines International.
Huiyong’s growth strategy in China “is that we acquire small mines, through integrating with communities,” said Penggui. “I have to be accepted by the community as an outsider – that was part of my experience in China, and I’m ready to use that knowledge and expertise in this place.”
HD is focused solely on the Murray River project, and plans to develop the underground mine with a 50-year lifespan, and a starting workforce of 92 Chinese miners.
Prior to his Tumbler Ridge News interview, Penggui met with mayor and council last Thursday, where plans for a major residential development across from Tumbler Ridge Secondary School were discussed.
“That piece of land was offered to us by the district,” said Penggui. ” It’s a hilly place, with nice topography, very good for building gardens, maybe for Chinese villas, that sort of thing,” he said. “We’ll be working under guidelines from the local community.”
“We are encouraged by council to produce our master plan for that part of the city, and we even talked about, in a candid way, building a Chinese cultural element,” he said. “A winding stream, a Chinese garden that is open to everybody.”
While that project is at least a year away from ground-breaking, a temporary foreign worker allowance granted by Service Canada in mid-April means the 92 employees are set to arrive in September.
Those employees are now being trained at Huiyong facilities in China by two Canadian instructors, in order to meet the B.C. standards for underground mining. They also began learning English 40 days ago, said Penggui.
“They hate it; they don’t like it,” he said with a grin. “But I said, ‘You have to become a neighbour, buy cigarettes, buy food – you’ll have to speak with people’,”.
Huiyong would hold a 55 per cent interest in the joint venture, while CDIMG would hold a 40 per cent stake, with the final five per cent now being negotiated with another partner. Huiyong would have four board members, Dehua would have two, and the third partner would have one.
Penggui first visited Tumbler Ridge last June, as has been discussing a joint venture with CDIMG since then. Huiyong would provide all the capital, and would build and operate the mine.
The project’s 100,000 tonne bulk sample is expected to occur in late July or early August, said Penggui. HD will present its detailed engineering plan to provincial government officials in Prince George on June 14, and will clarify timelines for the start of an environmental assessment application.
“According to my briefing from Dehua, the baseline study has almost been completed – what they need now is a project description,” he said. After that, the Environmental Assessment (EA) Office may start to compile experts and community members to comment on the project description.
Getting employees in place that far ahead of an approved EA certificate and Mines Act permit poses some financial risk, said Penggui, but it’s a process he believes will be successful due to synergies between drilling work and environmental data collection.
“There’s a time frame arrangement by which all the elements fit into the entire framework,” he said. “We have confidence in the law and transparency of this country.”
The full EA process will take about 18 months, a time span he said will allow for the completion of two shafts and a further refinement of the mine design.
Details of where the new employees would be housed upon arrival in Tumbler Ridge are yet to be disclosed. The planned subdivision is slated for an area currently zoned for residential multi-family (R3) and future development commercial (FDC), which means a re-zoning application would not necessarily be required.
HD’s long-term vision includes funding a visitor centre, geological museum, and an innovative closed-circuit television feed to provide people in Tumbler Ridge with a real-time view of the mining happening underground, said Penggui.


Still as outraged and angered as I was when I first read this? Which brings me back to Sarbjit’s multi-million dollar question.
Christy plans to open 8 more mines and expand 9 others, so who will fill those positions? The foreign students she’s planning on bringing in to our universities that she says will contribute skilled labour to our province ?
More workers from China?
Or will it be the hometown boys that might really appreciate some comprehensive training so they can support their families and live a decent life ?
Christy Clark, selling BC one grand vision at a time. To China

Why ship our raw resources to China for refinement when we can bring their workers here? the latest word is 300 Chinese workers to start before the new year .. yippee!! .. :sadno:

Edited by Tearloch7, 08 October 2012 - 08:10 AM.

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#28 Sharpshooter

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:00 AM

If you build them…(mines)… they will come( workers) – from China.

Posted on October 4, 2011 by Laila

Sarbjit touched on a very important point in his letter, which is posted directly below.
Sarbjit states:
“In the coming years, jobs will require more skills and training, particularly in this region in forestry and in mining. We need more funding and a definitive plan for apprenticeship and skills training in the resource sector, especially with a call to open 8 new mines and expand 9 others. Who will be filling these positions? HD Mining near Tumbler Ridge has already received permission from HRSDC to hire 92 foreign workers for their proposed coal mine.”
Shocking. Absolutely shocking when you think of the ramification of Christy Clark’s big non-vision for defending and creating jobs in B.C.
Sarbjit was wonderful to also send along the links to the mining companies site that talks about these foreign workers being shipped over to work in a BC mine.
http://hdminingintl....Detail.asp?id=8


Seven approvals for foreign workers


HD Mines International’s permission to employ 92 foreign workers for a prospective underground mine near Tumbler Ridge is a result of seven separate approvals from Human Resources and Skills Development Canada (HRSDC).
Each of the seven positive labour market opinions (LMOs) was granted to Canadian Dehua International Mines Group (CDIMG) in mid-April, and each was evaluated on a case-by-case basis, “to ensure the employer is offering foreign nationals the prevailing wage rates, acceptable working conditions and that the entry of the temporary foreign worker will have a neutral or positive effect on the Canadian labour market,” said an HRSDC spokesperson.
Work permits are another matter, which will require permission from Citizenship and Immigration Canada. Those permits are likely to be granted by a Canada Border Services Agency officer at the worker’s point of entry, allowing each of the temporary foreign workers to start working when they arrive in Canada.
HD Mines, the joint venture recently formed between CDIMG and the Huiyong Group of mines, has six months to bring the workers to Tumbler Ridge before the LMOs expire.
While in Canada, the foreign workers will have the same rights and protections as Canadian citizens and permanent residents under applicable federal and provincial employment standards and collective bargaining agreements. The province is responsible for the enforcement of labour standards and assistance to workers regarding fair pay, hours of work, rest periods and general working conditions.
Asked how CDIMG was able to show their intent to hire Canadian workers, HRSDC explained all employers must provide proof of advertisement and the results of the efforts to recruit Canadians or permanent residents before being allowed to hire temporary foreign workers.
For the past several months, CDIMG has been advertising on Service Canada’s Job Bank and on numerous mining employment websites to fill underground mining, geologist, construction, and drilling positions for the Murray River project, an underground metallurgical coal mine with a projected 50-year mine life.
The proof includes copies of advertisements, number of Canadian applicants and why they were rejected. Records of the employers’ efforts should be kept for a minimum of two years, in the event that a Service Canada Officer contacts the employer to verify the advertising efforts.”

http://hdminingintl....Detail.asp?id=7


Joint venture HD Mines to develop Murray River project


A major underground coal mine in Tumbler Ridge took a step closer to reality last Thursday (June 2), as China’s Huiyong Holdings Group announced a new joint venture with Canadian Dehua International Mines Group (CDIMG) to develop the Murray River project.
“The important thing about Huiyong is that we have extensive experiences in community integration,” explained Yan Penggui, who will chair the new company. Once the legal paperwork clears, it will be called HD Mines International.
Huiyong’s growth strategy in China “is that we acquire small mines, through integrating with communities,” said Penggui. “I have to be accepted by the community as an outsider – that was part of my experience in China, and I’m ready to use that knowledge and expertise in this place.”
HD is focused solely on the Murray River project, and plans to develop the underground mine with a 50-year lifespan, and a starting workforce of 92 Chinese miners.
Prior to his Tumbler Ridge News interview, Penggui met with mayor and council last Thursday, where plans for a major residential development across from Tumbler Ridge Secondary School were discussed.
“That piece of land was offered to us by the district,” said Penggui. ” It’s a hilly place, with nice topography, very good for building gardens, maybe for Chinese villas, that sort of thing,” he said. “We’ll be working under guidelines from the local community.”
“We are encouraged by council to produce our master plan for that part of the city, and we even talked about, in a candid way, building a Chinese cultural element,” he said. “A winding stream, a Chinese garden that is open to everybody.”
While that project is at least a year away from ground-breaking, a temporary foreign worker allowance granted by Service Canada in mid-April means the 92 employees are set to arrive in September.
Those employees are now being trained at Huiyong facilities in China by two Canadian instructors, in order to meet the B.C. standards for underground mining. They also began learning English 40 days ago, said Penggui.
“They hate it; they don’t like it,” he said with a grin. “But I said, ‘You have to become a neighbour, buy cigarettes, buy food – you’ll have to speak with people’,”.
Huiyong would hold a 55 per cent interest in the joint venture, while CDIMG would hold a 40 per cent stake, with the final five per cent now being negotiated with another partner. Huiyong would have four board members, Dehua would have two, and the third partner would have one.
Penggui first visited Tumbler Ridge last June, as has been discussing a joint venture with CDIMG since then. Huiyong would provide all the capital, and would build and operate the mine.
The project’s 100,000 tonne bulk sample is expected to occur in late July or early August, said Penggui. HD will present its detailed engineering plan to provincial government officials in Prince George on June 14, and will clarify timelines for the start of an environmental assessment application.
“According to my briefing from Dehua, the baseline study has almost been completed – what they need now is a project description,” he said. After that, the Environmental Assessment (EA) Office may start to compile experts and community members to comment on the project description.
Getting employees in place that far ahead of an approved EA certificate and Mines Act permit poses some financial risk, said Penggui, but it’s a process he believes will be successful due to synergies between drilling work and environmental data collection.
“There’s a time frame arrangement by which all the elements fit into the entire framework,” he said. “We have confidence in the law and transparency of this country.”
The full EA process will take about 18 months, a time span he said will allow for the completion of two shafts and a further refinement of the mine design.
Details of where the new employees would be housed upon arrival in Tumbler Ridge are yet to be disclosed. The planned subdivision is slated for an area currently zoned for residential multi-family (R3) and future development commercial (FDC), which means a re-zoning application would not necessarily be required.
HD’s long-term vision includes funding a visitor centre, geological museum, and an innovative closed-circuit television feed to provide people in Tumbler Ridge with a real-time view of the mining happening underground, said Penggui.


Still as outraged and angered as I was when I first read this? Which brings me back to Sarbjit’s multi-million dollar question.
Christy plans to open 8 more mines and expand 9 others, so who will fill those positions? The foreign students she’s planning on bringing in to our universities that she says will contribute skilled labour to our province ?
More workers from China?
Or will it be the hometown boys that might really appreciate some comprehensive training so they can support their families and live a decent life ?
Christy Clark, selling BC one grand vision at a time. To China

Why ship our raw resources to China for refinement when we can bring their workers here? the latest word is 300 Chinese workers to start before the new year .. yippee!! .. :sadno:



BC Liberals = Federal Conservatives

Also, by hiring foreign workers, the companies, aided by the gov't get to keep wages down by hiring non-union workers. You know, the kind of wages and benefits that built the middle-class in Canada, that your generation built and that my generation benefited from, as the children of middle class wage earners.

The BC Liberals, since Gordo have been sticking it to the nurses, teachers, and other unions for quite some time, and if they had their way, they'd lay the boots to union workers even moreso.

There's nothing 'liberal' about the BC Liberals when it comes to the middle class families who suffer from the Liberals conservative political ideology against unions.
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#29 Hobble

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:14 PM

Why did Harper agree to this?!? What sense does it make to sell Canadian companies to China, who will take OUR resources back to China more easily and then sell them back to us?!?
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#30 silverpig

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:15 PM

Canada's sovereignty is in danger. Really? This song and dance again. Every time Canadian officials try to speak with other countries, all of a sudden Canadian sovereignty becomes an issue. Canadian's never even had sovereignty until our poorly written Constitution. Then, when Canada attempts to negotiate with another country--Canada's left cries foul. Canada's sovereignty is infringed because the Americans want to control our boarder security; Canada's sovereignty is infringed because China want's to purchase some resources from Canada. How about we look at a real issue, where Canada is actually fighting for their sovereignty--the Arctic. That is currently the only case in point where Canada is actually fighting for sovereignty.

This whole Chinese thing is nothing to do with Canadian sovereignty. This is a prime example to why the Green Party can only win one seat, because nobody takes them serious. They (The Green Party) does not know anything about International Trade, or economics. Harper's entire International Relations policy has been to open up trade with the Asia countries. Any classic Liberal supporter ought to be applauding Harper as he is simply walking down the "Third Option" path. Harper wants Canada to be less dependent upon the American economy. Therefore, he is attempting to open up relations with not only the Latin American countries, but more explicitly the Asia-Pacific countries--namely, China. It's not a bad idea since China is currently one of the more booming economies.

Nevertheless, why is it that if China wants to purchase our oil, that is logically follows that Canada loses it's sovereignty? Please explain. Perhaps China will refine it and sell it back to Canada, but doesn't the Americans already do that with us? That is the way of the World Economy. Perhaps it makes sense to sell that oil to Canada East, as many of the NDP are wanting. However, Canada does lose money by doing this and why would they want to do that when they can A) make more money selling it to other countries in larger quantities, and B) build diplomatic relations with other/newer countries. I cannot wait to hear how the Green Party will respond when the Americans come knocking on our door for our water, since the mid-west of America is on the brink of having no water at all. What, if Canada makes a deal to send water to America, will that infringe on Canadian Sovereignty too?

Let us not allow fear mongering and pure speculation to be our guide to determining whether a policy is sound or not.

And to answer the next question coming. Sure, let there be a debate in the House. I see no problem with that. I do not see any reason why we should not sell our resources to China, though. It is smart for our economic health. Many like to say "what if we run out, or shouldn't we save some for ourselves," and to answer that--THAT IS BAD POLICY and you are going to call more problems with this isolationist policy. Moreover, running out? I'd like to see the empirical data for that too.


Harper completely ignored and shunned China until he realized the US wasn't the answer to our economic problems. His policy has been to "open up trade to the Asia countries"? Please.

Odd that you are taking the classic "free market" approach to this problem, and advocate selling to Chinese companies which are either fully or largely owned by the state.
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