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(Value Of) Bringing Back Raffi Torres

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This subject seemed to get a decent discussion going in the Luongo thread so I figured it would be a good idea to start a new thread on it.

I think many of us agree that not re-signing Torres was a bad idea since Raffi brought a whole new element to our third line. So what do you think it would take to get him back? I proposed Ballard for Torres but that didn't seem to get a good vibe.

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This subject seemed to get a decent discussion going in the Luongo thread so I figured it would be a good idea to start a new thread on it.

I think many of us agree that not re-signing Torres was a bad idea since Raffi brought a whole new element to our third line. So what do you think it would take to get him back? I proposed Ballard for Torres but that didn't seem to get a good vibe.

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I honestly believe that Phoenix would move him for pretty cheap - maybe a 3rd round pick would be enough?

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The Canucks are missing that crushing forechecker. Kassian would fit that role, except the Sedins are more puck possession than dump and chase.

Volpatti doesn't get a regular shift. Hansen, Higgins, Kesler, Lapierre, can check, but they don't crush players.

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I honestly believe that Phoenix would move him for pretty cheap - maybe a 3rd round pick would be enough?

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Uhh, why? We dont need Torres. What is CDC's obsession with 3rd/4th liners from previous years? We need offensive CONSISTENCY. This team needs legitimate top 6 talent, not up-and-down the lineup players.

Torres scored 14 goals for Vancouver, but remember that a large chunk of those came in a very brief period, and would often disappear for weeks at a time.

And who cares about his hitting? We don't need more hits from our bottom lines, we need more grit and drive from our TOP lines.

Ballard has been strong for us this year. He's part of our most consistent pair, and he does the unthinkable in a Vancouver shirt: sticks up for his teammates. He's looked good defensively (take note, Edler), and can throw a few punches and hits all the same. Ballard is way more valuable to this team than Torres is.

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The Canucks are missing that crushing forechecker. Kassian would fit that role, except the Sedins are more puck possession than dump and chase.

Volpatti doesn't get a regular shift. Hansen, Higgins, Kesler, Lapierre, can check, but they don't crush players.

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Funny; a guy with a glass jaw who undervalues a big hitter?

FTR: the biggest benfit in Torres is the 218lb body who is big and fast enough to match up against guys like Marleau, Clowe, Pavelski... Not the crushing hits on the fore-check. Hey, those were exciting, took out Seabrook which possibly won us a series, but as a whole also caused us problems. Phoenix as well. Torres would be great if he found a fine line. But his body solved all kinds of match up problems for us

Don't know if you watched the first two shifts of today's game. Pavelski and Clowe pretty much laughed at gimps Higgins, Burrows and Hansen in the first shift and earned an O'zone draw for them. Our boys are gamers for sure, but that's a battle up some big hills. AV could not roll out Schneider, Raymond against 230 lb Thornton and 220 lb Marlowe who came out next, so he played the Twins (4 on 4), each 185 lbs. Hardly the match up we want.

No surprise; McLellan manufactured them a goal only 40 odd seconds into a game using match ups..

Yip; bring back Torres and shame on AV for using a coaches decision to sit Malhotra against such a big line up!

Edit a point I've made many times here; as much as Higgins is a better player than Torres (he is), we should have given Torres a 2 year deal, even if it cost us Higgins. Even having subsequently acquired Kassian, we're punching out of our weight class.

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Funny; a guy with a glass jaw who undervalues a big hitter?

FTR: the biggest benfit in Torres is the 218lb body who is big and fast enough to match up against guys like Marleau, Clowe, Pavelski... Not the crushing hits on the fore-check. Hey, those were exciting, took out Seabrook which possibly won us a series, but as a whole also caused us problems. Phoenix as well. Torres would be great if he found a fine line. But his body solved all kinds of match up problems for us

Don't know if you watched the first two shifts of today's game. Pavelski and Clowe pretty much laughed at gimps Higgins, Burrows and Hansen in the first shift and earned an O'zone draw for them. Our boys are gamers for sure, but that's a battle up some big hills. AV could not roll out Schneider, Raymond against 230 lb Thornton and 220 lb Marlowe who came out next, so he played the Twins (4 on 4), each 185 lbs. Hardly the match up we want.

No surprise; McLellan manufactured them a goal only 40 odd seconds into a game using match ups..

Yip; bring back Torres and shame on AV for using a coaches decision to sit Malhotra against such a big line up!

Edit a point I've made many times here; as much as Higgins is a better player than Torres (he is), we should have given Torres a 2 year deal, even if it cost us Higgins. Even having subsequently acquired Kassian, we're punching out of our weight class.

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First off, of course we seem to be lacking fast, physical, punishing forwards...two of our best are currently injured. Once Kesler and Booth are back, they will up the grit on this team exponentially.

Secondly, for bringing back Torres, I would not be against it. Raffi was more valuable in the playoffs than people realize. He hobbled Seabrook and Thornton. Opposing teams had to keep their head up. And he scored another 15G last year, and had 2 points in 3 games before that suspension. (Say what you will about his hit on Hossa, but that was part of the reason Phoenix won that series, and made it to the conference finals.)

That said, Canucks management aren't dummies. They could have easily matched the offer from Phoenix (1.75 mil, 2 years), but chose not to. Were there problems in the room? Did Canucks players not appreciate his penchant for injuring their peers? Were opposing teams taking more liberties with us BECAUSE we had Raffi on the team? Or maybe Torres just didn't like it here? Who knows...

So yeah - not opposed to the idea, but also don't think it's a slam-dunk. And in a month, it could be completely unecessary

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Where would you put him in the lineup though and who would come out for him?

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Funny; a guy with a glass jaw who undervalues a big hitter?

FTR: the biggest benfit in Torres is the 218lb body who is big and fast enough to match up against guys like Marleau, Clowe, Pavelski... Not the crushing hits on the fore-check. Hey, those were exciting, took out Seabrook which possibly won us a series, but as a whole also caused us problems. Phoenix as well. Torres would be great if he found a fine line. But his body solved all kinds of match up problems for us

Don't know if you watched the first two shifts of today's game. Pavelski and Clowe pretty much laughed at gimps Higgins, Burrows and Hansen in the first shift and earned an O'zone draw for them. Our boys are gamers for sure, but that's a battle up some big hills. AV could not roll out Schneider, Raymond against 230 lb Thornton and 220 lb Marlowe who came out next, so he played the Twins (4 on 4), each 185 lbs. Hardly the match up we want.

No surprise; McLellan manufactured them a goal only 40 odd seconds into a game using match ups..

Yip; bring back Torres and shame on AV for using a coaches decision to sit Malhotra against such a big line up!

Edit a point I've made many times here; as much as Higgins is a better player than Torres (he is), we should have given Torres a 2 year deal, even if it cost us Higgins. Even having subsequently acquired Kassian, we're punching out of our weight class.

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If we wanted him, we would have signed him to the same contract Phoenix offered him.

Not happening.

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Incorrect; The key advantage of having signed Torres and Malhotra was that their key role was to insulate the first and 2knd line from key defensive match ups. If they scored it was a bonus.

Because they were both near 220 lbs, had speed, enough jam and each roughly 10 years experience, it was their job to take on whomever had 3 210 lb forwards running around in our zone. Manny would win draws, Torres battles on the boards and then they would use speed from Torres and Hansen to get the puck up to the offensive zone. If Torres was not on a short scoring streak, we ended up getting an offensive zone draw, and out popped the Twins or Kesler for a scoring chance. Like a field possesion game in NFL.

Again; watch the 2knd shift of the game yesterday; Thornton's goal. Defensive draw in our end 4 on 4, Thornton 230 and Marleau 220 lbs versus the Twins 185 lbs each. That draw would have been taken by Malhotra and Torres 100% of the time, its what their role was. Clowe and company wouldn't have been running rampage, nor would the Twins be wasting potential offensive shifts guarding them. Bloody oath we miss Torres!

Like I hinted in my post, there's virtually no reason to believe Torres would have levelled a great hit against these players. Torres was non-existant in most games for Vancouver. Offensively he was a non-factor for the vast majority of the season. He didn't have high energy game changing hits every game. Not even close.

Clowe and co. were running wild all over the Canucks, and players like Raymond and Burrows are our second line. As I said, and as D Money said, the Canucks, ideally, wouldn't allow that if they were healthy (remember Kesler and Thornton's history?) And Hansen had an alright game, and I'd rather have him over Torres any day.

Yeah, Torres laid out Seabrook, but that gave Chicago steam, and THEY almost came back and won. How can you forget that? Chicago looked down and out before that hit.

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Incorrect; The key advantage of having signed Torres and Malhotra was that their key role was to insulate the first and 2knd line from key defensive match ups. If they scored it was a bonus.

Because they were both near 220 lbs, had speed, enough jam and each roughly 10 years experience, it was their job to take on whomever had 3 210 lb forwards running around in our zone. Manny would win draws, Torres battles on the boards and then they would use speed from Torres and Hansen to get the puck up to the offensive zone. If Torres was not on a short scoring streak, we ended up getting an offensive zone draw, and out popped the Twins or Kesler for a scoring chance. Like a field possesion game in NFL.

Again; watch the 2knd shift of the game yesterday; Thornton's goal. Defensive draw in our end 4 on 4, Thornton 230 and Marleau 220 lbs versus the Twins 185 lbs each. That draw would have been taken by Malhotra and Torres 100% of the time, its what their role was. Clowe and company wouldn't have been running rampage, nor would the Twins be wasting potential offensive shifts guarding them. Bloody oath we miss Torres!

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If we wanted him, we would have signed him to the same contract Phoenix offered him.

Not happening.

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I wouldn't expect much out of Raffi for the regular season. Especially after sitting out with this latest suspension.

However, he's always been a guy who comes to play in the playoffs.

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I wouldn't expect much out of Raffi for the regular season. Especially after sitting out with this latest suspension.

However, he's always been a guy who comes to play in the playoffs.

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This is another reason as to why I want Gillis to re-acquire Raffi. He had like what, 3, 4 clutch goals in the playoffs two seasons ago?

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