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Where is our Transition Game?


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#1 Bananas

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:32 AM

I seem to remember the Canucks being a very strong team off the rush. Even the not-so-speedy Sedins have produced many a point off the rush. This team his supposed to be one of the faster teams out there, with guys like Booth, Burrows, Kesler, Raymond, Hanson, Schroeder, Wiese, etc... yet this system we employ does nothing to utilize our resources to their maximum potential -- or even anywhere close at all.

I see it time and time again. We get the puck, there's open forwards in the neutral zone, but where does the puck go? Back to the defence. Every time; and because it is every time, we all know this is the system -- and it doesn't work!

This game against the Hawks isn't the reason I post this, because it's been bothering me all season long, but it's a real eye opener perhaps to those who may otherwise have missed my point. Did you see the odd man rushes the Hawks got? Every one of them dangerous. We're lucky Schneider put up some good saves in these situations... anywho, my point is: why aren't the Canucks doing any of this? At all!

The Canucks are so fast, and we have plenty of skill. However, our system is holding back our players. The personnel we have available should be using their skills instead of ignoring them to play a system that not only is vanilla, and basic (and our only one), but plain not good in the first place.

The coach really needs to get off his arse and start thinking for once in his career. His coin-flip goalie "controversy" and pulling names out of a hat for line choices (not SO bad this year) are not thinking, despite what he may believe. These players are not being used properly because of the system.


Am I missing something, or has our system completely fallen apart under our noses? This can't be a failure of execution, because the Canucks don't even try.


This isn't limited to 5-on-5, either. The dump-and-change mentality makes what used to be a frightening penalty kill into a matter of patience. With our speed, our penalty killers should be able to break out shorthanded like we see so often against ourselves. But instead, AV hoots like an owl from the bench and the players skate off the ice.

Thanks for reading. Discuss.

Edited by Joe_Shmo, 20 February 2013 - 09:34 AM.

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#2 cc_devil

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:52 AM

You answered your own question.
AV's system is like you stated. It does not utilize players properly in positions to succeed. Now it's effecting all aspects including the defensemen as well with his questionable line combos.
It's why the player seem emotionless. Their tired of it and need a change.

#3 pwnstar

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:11 AM

They got the potential, just need the drive.

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#4 tas

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:18 AM

christian ehrhoff took it with him

#5 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:18 AM

You answered your own question.
AV's system is like you stated. It does not utilize players properly in positions to succeed. Now it's effecting all aspects including the defensemen as well with his questionable line combos.
It's why the player seem emotionless. Their tired of it and need a change.


Yes thats why they are third in the conference and top 5 in the league and have only lost 3 games in regulation/clean..2 back to back presidents trophy's and a SCF visit in last 2 years

But yes our coaching sucks

YOU SIR ARE THE REASON PEOPLE THINK VANCOUVER FANS ARE IDIOTS

#6 Justin6Schultz

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:20 AM

I think our "transition game" is in buffalo, named Christian Ehrhoff. But that's just my opinion

#7 elvis15

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

Or it could be we've finally gotten two top 6 forwards back from injury and we're going to work them into the lineup and open up play a little. The Sedins aren't going to lead a transition like that with speed, and we would have been relying on Schroeder or Lapierre's lines to do so and they're hardly Kane, Hossa, Sharp, etc. We've been playing a little safer game as a result.

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If this team lets go of Sang he will burn this team next year. 

 


#8 Bananas

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:04 AM

I don't think the transition game left completely with Ehrhoff, but maybe the mentality did as a result. If it were all on him, he'd have had a lot more assists.

I really think that our team has enough depth to carry on doing what our team is capable of. With Booth and Kes out, we were stuck putting together one patchwork checking line. That's fine, let them check. But why, when the Sedins or the speed line are on, are we passing back to the D and letting the opposition regroup?

If it's because we're trying the whole "puck possession" scheme, then why are we constantly chipping the puck out to center, or dumping and changing? This team consists of players who can skate fast, and players who can pass very well. I don't understand why we don't either possess the puck, or run and gun. Instead, we flip the puck around without cause and hope that maybe when we set up shop in the offensive zone -- with all five players committed to offense -- we will score a goal or two in a game.

Then, with all our players committed, and our D making stupid pinches at bad times, we get bitten for it by a team with a system that actually works because they don't pass the puck back to their D and "get organized". Rather, they carry the puck up the ice and generate some offence.
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#9 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:34 AM

Yes thats why they are third in the conference and top 5 in the league and have only lost 3 games in regulation/clean..2 back to back presidents trophy's and a SCF visit in last 2 years

But yes our coaching sucks

YOU SIR ARE THE REASON PEOPLE THINK VANCOUVER FANS ARE IDIOTS


How have they faired against non-divisional rivals? Have you watched the games? WIthout the best goaltending in the league, they would be at the bottom of theri division. 6 games where they gave up 1 goal and not because of their stellar defence as they were usually out-shot, but because of their goalies.
h
the flaws in thier system and play have been covered up by their stellar goaltending. Their standing is a mirage adn most hockey people know it which is why they are seldom mentioned this year as a top contender. Knoweldgeable hockey analysts watch the games and see the product and Vancouver doesn't impress..

#10 VicNuckleHead09

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:42 AM

Hey lets make another thread and have 4 replies that agree and then get flamed by the rest of CDC cause the topic could be covered in the PGT or in one of the billions of other treads about this topic.... Okay??? :bigblush:
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#11 Justin6Schultz

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:05 PM

Hey lets make another thread and have 4 replies that agree and then get flamed by the rest of CDC cause the topic could be covered in the PGT or in one of the billions of other treads about this topic.... Okay??? :bigblush:

To each his own! Amirite?

#12 Bananas

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:06 PM

Hey lets make another thread and have 4 replies that agree and then get flamed by the rest of CDC cause the topic could be covered in the PGT or in one of the billions of other treads about this topic.... Okay??? :bigblush:


Actually, I'm specifically addressing the transition game that we used to have.
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#13 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:45 PM

Yes thats why they are third in the conference and top 5 in the league and have only lost 3 games in regulation/clean..2 back to back presidents trophy's and a SCF visit in last 2 years

But yes our coaching sucks

YOU SIR ARE THE REASON PEOPLE THINK VANCOUVER FANS ARE IDIOTS



What does any of that have to do with this season?

It's quite clear our system gets exploited by top teams and coaches who actually know how to adjust and change their gameplan.

Our players rarely play with any drive or emotion.

The same strategy isn't going to work every year............... if we had average goal tending we would probably be near the bottom of the league....

I think you're the idiot.

Edited by TheGame., 20 February 2013 - 12:46 PM.

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#14 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 12:48 PM

Transition game is there. It's just that Chicago is a very good defensive team also, were the system forces the player not to go up the middle but the side, because if the player goes up the side, its easier to shut it down, usually done with 2 players. and when that happens, its easier for Chicago players to slow it down. It's strategy. Phoenix is really good and stopping the transition game too. We have it. Nothing to worry about. Last night was just a very hard game to win. We should happy we came up with a point with that effort.

 

Well, I , I feel very good about this draft, but I, I think, potentially you know were gonna have 3 or 4 NHL players out of this group, ummmm, you know like we are not going to prejudice to were they are from.

 

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#15 Teen Icarus

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

To be completely honest, I haven't really paid attention to Ehrhoff's absence...however, the more I think about it, the more I realise how much we are indeed mission him. If we could land a right-handed player who plays similarly to him, I think it might solve a few of our issues.

Actually, I wonder...how much is Washington valuing Mike Green right now? Who knows, maybe with the Canucks' vast resources, we can find that stick he liked so much and rejuvenate his career if we trade for him.
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#16 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:52 PM

What does any of that have to do with this season?

It's quite clear our system gets exploited by top teams and coaches who actually know how to adjust and change their gameplan.

Our players rarely play with any drive or emotion.

The same strategy isn't going to work every year............... if we had average goal tending we would probably be near the bottom of the league....

I think you're the idiot.

What does any of that have to do with this season?

It's quite clear our system gets exploited by top teams and coaches who actually know how to adjust and change their gameplan.

Our players rarely play with any drive or emotion.

The same strategy isn't going to work every year............... if we had average goal tending we would probably be near the bottom of the league....

I think you're the idiot.


AV insists there is "...only one way to play...", that he taught the Pittsburgh coach his method, "... and they use that same system..."
AV has taken some of the best talent in the league and made them oprdinary. For strategy and tactics he seems to rely on his assistant coaches rather than do any thinking of his own - of course, when the PP or the PK sucks, that gives him someone else to blame. Right now our D is struggling with converage, our breakout often sucks, our transition game is non-existent and our point men on the PP are clueless and allow players in behind them all the time. On the PP no-one goes to the deep slot to pull the opposition forwards back toward their own goal to make better lanes for the shots, and our D rarely move laterally with the puck to open shooting lanes. But we are great at staying on the periphery and never getting a legitimate chance on goal. There are reasons why our PP and PK suck, and the reason is not in the net, and none of Ballard, Tanev, Garrison, Bieksa, and Hamhuis are responsible. You can't blame Garrison for not scoring on the PP when he either is not on it or he if he is out with Edler, is still waiting for his first decent pass from Edler. This crap with Daniel on the point is surely seen now as a completely failed experiment after all those breakaways - and Chicago, by the way, wasn't the only team to have them - they had obviously scouted the Canucks previous games. Thank God for Cory - this team owes him for that single point..

#17 Trebreh

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 02:54 PM

our transition game got killed by the 'drop pass' the most predictable play of the Canucks arsenal.

#18 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:00 PM

AV insists there is "...only one way to play...", that he taught the Pittsburgh coach his method, "... and they use that same system..."
AV has taken some of the best talent in the league and made them oprdinary. For strategy and tactics he seems to rely on his assistant coaches rather than do any thinking of his own - of course, when the PP or the PK sucks, that gives him someone else to blame. Right now our D is struggling with converage, our breakout often sucks, our transition game is non-existent and our point men on the PP are clueless and allow players in behind them all the time. On the PP no-one goes to the deep slot to pull the opposition forwards back toward their own goal to make better lanes for the shots, and our D rarely move laterally with the puck to open shooting lanes. But we are great at staying on the periphery and never getting a legitimate chance on goal. There are reasons why our PP and PK suck, and the reason is not in the net, and none of Ballard, Tanev, Garrison, Bieksa, and Hamhuis are responsible. You can't blame Garrison for not scoring on the PP when he either is not on it or he if he is out with Edler, is still waiting for his first decent pass from Edler. This crap with Daniel on the point is surely seen now as a completely failed experiment after all those breakaways - and Chicago, by the way, wasn't the only team to have them - they had obviously scouted the Canucks previous games. Thank God for Cory - this team owes him for that single point..



I just don't get how these problems aren't being fixed when it's been obvious for so long..... I think AV and co have run out of ideas and have no idea what to do besides mix up the lines and rely on AV's special coin to win them games.

I noticed last night how creative Chicago's team was offensively.

Our team does the same crap every game and look like a bunch of grinders, it doesn't make sense with the level of skill we have.

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#19 tas

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:14 PM

I just don't get how these problems aren't being fixed when it's been obvious for so long..... I think AV and co have run out of ideas and have no idea what to do besides mix up the lines and rely on AV's special coin to win them games.

I noticed last night how creative Chicago's team was offensively.

Our team does the same crap every game and look like a bunch of grinders, it doesn't make sense with the level of skill we have.


it's because the canucks skill level isn't actually very high at all. it's hard to think of a single team in the nhl that doesn't have at least one player more individually talented than every player on the canucks.

the problem is that the management, coaching, players and local media have tried to force down our throats that they're a skill team, when in fact theyre a systems and effort team. the canucks can't really out-skill their opponents and only succeed when they outwork them, or benefit from spectacular goaltending.

#20 CanucksJay

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:15 PM

christian ehrhoff took it with him


I thought it was Aaron Rome?
You know, our PP specialist

#21 Bananas

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:16 PM

Very glad to see that people are starting to wake up and see the problems with this team.

The amount of on-topic discussion about just one of many aspects that is wrong with the coaching is a testament to this.


@Ray_Cathode: I really like the points you make about the powerplay.
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#22 Bananas

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:21 PM

it's because the canucks skill level isn't actually very high at all. it's hard to think of a single team in the nhl that doesn't have at least one player more individually talented than every player on the canucks.

the problem is that the management, coaching, players and local media have tried to force down our throats that they're a skill team, when in fact theyre a systems and effort team. the canucks can't really out-skill their opponents and only succeed when they outwork them, or benefit from spectacular goaltending.


I don't feel that this is true, honestly. With the back to back seasons that the Sedins had with Burrows at their side beg to differ with your assessment. There is no "I" in "team", to put it as a cliche. Yea, Ovechkin is really damned good, and look where they are. Luongo and Schneider are both very skilled goalies. Kesler is a gifted player, albeit a tad selfish.

This isn't the most skilled team in the league, I'll give you that. The biggest point you make, and it's a good one, is the amount of effort. If the team is collectively lazy (and it is the WHOLE team right now), who is it on the shoulders of? 22 players for not being motivated; or one, who fails to motivate them, and who garners no respect from his roster.
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