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Needing more offence


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#31 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:42 PM

So you would have given multiple years to an injury prone defenceman on a 35+ contract (and more salary than he's ever earned), kept a player that would have likely been lost on waivers after another poor training camp, and continued to groom a player in a 3rd line role after he'd verbally requested more icetime despite being behind a Hart/Art Ross winner and a Selke winner in the depth chart?

We don't hear Detroit losing their prospects to waivers for nothing, or their prospects complaining about ice time. Detroit does love keeping their aging players around on multi year 35+ contracts though, I'll give you that's an area where the Canucks differ from them.


In terms of Salo: If there was not a suitable replacement? Absolutely yes. If Garrison is supposed to be his replacement then the coaching staff needs to start using him as it. Because 35+ or not, this team misses Salo.......

Would Detroit have let Ehrhoff leave? Under any circumstances? Would they have let Hodgson get that disgruntled? Would they have miscast players to the extent the Canucks do?

No, and that is why they can actually make their "model" work and Vancouver can't. That and the fact that the coach wants to do things his way even at the expense of what makes sense given his personnel.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 07 March 2013 - 04:46 PM.


#32 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:51 PM

In terms of Salo: If there was not a suitable replacement? Absolutely yes. If Garrison is supposed to be his replacement then the coaching staff needs to start using him as it. Because 35+ or not, this team misses Salo.......

Would Detroit have let Ehrhoff leave? Under any circumstances? Would they have let Hodgson get that disgruntled? Would they have miscast players to the extent the Canucks do?

No, and that is why they can actually make their "model" work and Vancouver can't. That and the fact that the coach wants to do things his way even at the expense of what makes sense given his personnel.


Certainly a lot less drama and controversy surrounding the WIngs than the Nucks. Says something about coach.management.

As for the offence...I just hope AV realizes he has accidentally found something special in the Raymond/Higgins/Hansen line and doesn't mess with it even when Kes comes back. Those 3 have 18 goals with virtually no PP time versus the Sedins and Burrows with 17 goals including all their PP time and preferential offensive zone starts. Raymond is showing that his speed,vision and ability to distribute the puck makes him very effective. If he can improve in the circle, they might be onto something really good.

Keep these guys together and make Kass, Booth and Kes figure out how to be effective (larger, more banging line) and we just might have something that can work post-season.

#33 elvis15

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:15 PM

Certainly a lot less drama and controversy surrounding the WIngs than the Nucks. Says something about coach.management.
...

But where does that drama come from? A media with a penchant for sensationalism, and a fan base without a cup in 40 years? Look how people on here overreacted to losing a 4th liner on waivers. Maybe there are areas to be concerned over, but we certainly don't have any proof of issues based on what's being suggested here.

We did line up a replacement for Salo in Garrison and were in the hunt for Schultz too. Even still we did offer Salo a contract for one year and promise to keep renewing it for as long as he wanted to play.

Maybe Gillis and the scouting staff should be faulted for drafting a player with a father very interested in the future of his son's career, unfortunately marred by an injury that wasn't diagnosed at a few turns. It says something about a player when he's been through a few agents as is, never mind on his second NHL team after asking for more icetime.

They might come under fire for drafting a player with talent in Grabner who wasn't mentally prepared for training camps and didn't change his ways (by his own admission) until getting waived by Florida and getting picked up by the Isles. Certainly it was an issue how the trade turned out, although it seemed sound at the time.

We did miss out on a few players that could have helped our offence (to get this post back on topic) but that wasn't fault of the management and coaches. Certainly not all of it was, and the actions (or inactions) of all the players mentioned have a lot to do with the resulting situation we're in now - which isn't all that bad, but we'd love to be better.

But all this has been discussed before. I've just yet to see anything to convince me this is all due to faults of Gillis and Vigneault, as most of the threads here are speculating.

Edited by elvis15, 07 March 2013 - 05:18 PM.

c3c9e9.pnganimalhousesig.jpg

If this team lets go of Sang he will burn this team next year.

 


#34 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:38 PM

But where does that drama come from? A media with a penchant for sensationalism, and a fan base without a cup in 40 years? Look how people on here overreacted to losing a 4th liner on waivers. Maybe there are areas to be concerned over, but we certainly don't have any proof of issues based on what's being suggested here.

We did line up a replacement for Salo in Garrison and were in the hunt for Schultz too. Even still we did offer Salo a contract for one year and promise to keep renewing it for as long as he wanted to play.

Maybe Gillis and the scouting staff should be faulted for drafting a player with a father very interested in the future of his son's career, unfortunately marred by an injury that wasn't diagnosed at a few turns. It says something about a player when he's been through a few agents as is, never mind on his second NHL team after asking for more icetime.

They might come under fire for drafting a player with talent in Grabner who wasn't mentally prepared for training camps and didn't change his ways (by his own admission) until getting waived by Florida and getting picked up by the Isles. Certainly it was an issue how the trade turned out, although it seemed sound at the time.

We did miss out on a few players that could have helped our offence (to get this post back on topic) but that wasn't fault of the management and coaches. Certainly not all of it was, and the actions (or inactions) of all the players mentioned have a lot to do with the resulting situation we're in now - which isn't all that bad, but we'd love to be better.

But all this has been discussed before. I've just yet to see anything to convince me this is all due to faults of Gillis and Vigneault, as most of the threads here are speculating.


With all due respect, AV and Mike Gillis both fan the flames with the media and stir up controversy with their comments. And I would almost guarantee it is on purpose. They WANT the fans and the media talking about them and the team.....

The coach won't use the replacement as a replacement so the exercise certainly looks futile.

It is not always 100% the players fault. Grabner and Hodgson have both shown that they are not uncoachable or that it was not possible for them to change whatever criticisms AV and MG may have had towards them. In fact, both look like they just needed the proper coaching direction and opportunity. There is a certain responsibility on the Canucks as well to properly communicate and manage expectations on those players as well.

Have you ever considered that perhaps the Canucks lost out on players because of the way they have handled Hodgson, Samuelsson, Grabner, Ballard, etc? It is certainly not unrealistic.

#35 Not A Fruit

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:43 PM

Just because your American style spellcheck underlines a word does not mean it's wrong, ok neighbour.


Oh really? Didn't realize that, thanks for the input. Doubt that i'm your neighbor, I probably live half way across the world from you. My AMERICAN teacher says she is sorry, bud.
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Special Thanks to Twilight Sparkle ^

#36 elvis15

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:50 PM

With all due respect, AV and Mike Gillis both fan the flames with the media and stir up controversy with their comments. And I would almost guarantee it is on purpose. They WANT the fans and the media talking about them and the team.....

The coach won't use the replacement as a replacement so the exercise certainly looks futile.

It is not always 100% the players fault. Grabner and Hodgson have both shown that they are not uncoachable or that it was not possible for them to change whatever criticisms AV and MG may have had towards them. In fact, both look like they just needed the proper coaching direction and opportunity. There is a certain responsibility on the Canucks as well to properly communicate and manage expectations on those players as well.

Have you ever considered that perhaps the Canucks lost out on players because of the way they have handled Hodgson, Samuelsson, Grabner, Ballard, etc? It is certainly not unrealistic.

Oh, I understand what you're getting at and I've never suggested it's all on the players, just that it's not mostly the management.

To suggest Grabner had little to no responsibility in getting ready for training camp, or more importantly we didn't do enough to get him ready (especially considering what's come to light with what Kassian did over the summer along with Tanev, Connauton, etc., and working to get Jensen and Grenier spots overseas) is ridiculous. And to give Cody a pass when we know for a fact he went to the team to ask for more icetime and say it's all on management as people are suggesting? It's just the same, people looking for someone close at hand to blame when the players are now on the other side of the continent and we see how many points they have on the 14th and 10th place teams in the Eastern conference, respectively.

Grabner said himself he needed to change his ways and getting picked up off waivers by NYI was the wake up call. Cody moving from here and getting to play with Vanek, one of the hottest players to start the season, and Pominville was a gift. They made the best of it from there on, but it was hardly just that they were given a new coach and GM.

I agree both Gillis and AV aren't perfect and have made their fair share of mistakes, but Gillis' record as an agent (had plenty of clients that liked him) and the fact that we had even less chance at UFAs prior to Gillis coming here and working to improve that to what it is should be at least some sort of evidence in his favour.

c3c9e9.pnganimalhousesig.jpg

If this team lets go of Sang he will burn this team next year.

 


#37 Raph

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:55 PM

Our offense has been static for the last few years. Teams have figured us out. Much like Ovechkin.

And we have no snipers, we usually just get garbage goals.

#38 ALTtimegreat

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:56 PM

3 years been asking and waiting for Gillis to provide LEGIT 2nd line wingers for Kesler.
This year, 2nd line is still a mess.

Booth, Raymond, Higgins are not LEGIT 2nd liners. Booth needs to traded asap

#39 stexx

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:09 PM

3 years been asking and waiting for Gillis to provide LEGIT 2nd line wingers for Kesler.
This year, 2nd line is still a mess.

Booth, Raymond, Higgins are not LEGIT 2nd liners. Booth needs to traded asap


have you watched booth play the last 3 games? the man is playing like he is possessed. So far the puck hasnt gone in but him and kass have created a ton of chances on that line. Booth's power game tonight vs CBJ was dominating he did everything but put the puck in.

#40 Erik Karlsson

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:13 PM

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Hodgson-Kesler-Grabner/Shirokov


:emot-parrot:


Sedin-Kesler-Sedin
Hodgson-Edler

Dat powerplay

:bigblush:

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Credit to Parise11





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