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Mike Gillis. Pros Cons what has he really done?


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#1 nitti999

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:44 AM

MG in my mind gets wat too much credit. What has he really done. Re-sign the Sedins and Burrows. They would sign anyhow. Eerhoff deal was good at the time. What else? Trade all our prospects. Sign bad deals? He inheritated his team in my mind. And please don't comment brought to SC final. Like I said the team was inherited. His moves since have shown what we have on the ice now. AHL quality forwards. Time for a change Gillis your done

Can anyone essemble a list.?
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#2 MayRayDown

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:10 AM

MG in my mind gets wat too much credit. What has he really done. Re-sign the Sedins and Burrows. They would sign anyhow. Eerhoff deal was good at the time. What else? Trade all our prospects. Sign bad deals? He inheritated his team in my mind. And please don't comment brought to SC final. Like I said the team was inherited. His moves since have shown what we have on the ice now. AHL quality forwards. Time for a change Gillis your done

Can anyone essemble a list.?


:picard: that's not even taking into account the bad grammar.

Edited by MayRayDown, 22 March 2013 - 03:11 AM.

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#3 grandmaster

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:13 AM

Do you mean assemble?

I'm not a big fan of his and agree with some of your points.

The biggest problem with MG is that he is weak at trades. Most GMs hate him for when he was ruthless player agent and wont deal with the guy. MG also promised to improve drafting players but has also failed in that regard.


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#4 grandmaster

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:14 AM

:picard: that's not even taking into account the bad grammar.


He must be very young
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#5 Monteeun

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:40 AM

he did the small things...as far as the big ones, probably not.
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BAD MOVE!!!

BAD FING MOVE

HAHAHA ANOTHER INJURED MORON ON OUR TEAM

HE WILL JOIN US IN 2019

Benning will be fired next year. Hope he enjoys screwing around for a few months. I just cant believe this. Another injured BC player. We just got rid of garrison. Seems like the canucks and linden just wanted any BC born player. Doesn't matter if hes good or not. We don't need another Linden to get us to game 7 of the Stanley cup and lose. We need someone to win us a cup.

5 million a year for Vrbata? 6 million for Miller? Kesler for Bonino and 24th instead of 10th pick or one of their top prospects? Garrison for scraps?

ive already lost faith in JB. Ive never EVER had this bad of a feeling about management.

 


#6 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:53 AM

He built the most skilled team the NHL has seen in about 3 or 4 decades which really should of won a Cup. It didn't, he learned from this mistake (hardly his fault) and is now adapting the Canucks to a team that is more likely to win a Cup in today's NHL - a bigger, stronger, more physical team.

Since being here here's the big moves that turns our small, fragile team into a physical playoff-ready force:

Lost Mitchell but obtained Hamhuis and Ballard.
Lost Ehrhoff and Salo but obtained Garrison, Vandermeer and Barker.
All up our defence has gone from a quite old, fragile one to a defence in it's prime who all play the game hard and battle. This doesn't show in the regular season, but that sort of defence wins cups in the playoffs.

Up front, lost Samuelsson, Grabner and Hodgson.
Obtained Higgins, Lapierre, Booth, Kassian - all powerforwards that complement our skilled guys like the Sedins, Burrows and Raymond quite well. Cup winners have the perfect mix of skill, size and speed and MG has moulded this all-skill team into a much more balanced one akin to those teams that have hoisted the Cup.
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#7 Edlerberry

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:27 AM

*
POPULAR

While normally I'd make fun of your inability to spell, I was kind of interested in looking at this a bit as well.

Notable Net Losses:
  • Grabner - Trade
  • Mitchell - UFA
  • Morrison - UFA
  • Naslund - UFA
  • Linden - Retired
  • O'Brien - Trade for Parent (aka nothing)
  • Shannon - Trade for nothing
  • Pyatt - UFA
  • 2010 1st rounder (Ballard)
  • 2010 2nd (Bernier)
  • 2009 3rd (Bernier)
  • 2010 3rd (Alberts
  • 2011 3rd (Higgins)
  • 2012 4th (Pahlsson)
  • misc 5th+ rounders
  • Rypien(RIP)
  • Bourdon(RIP)
  • Mike Brown - Trade (for nothing)
  • Hodgson - Trade
  • Salo - UFA
  • Ohlund - UFA
Notable Net Gain:
  • Booth - Trade
  • Garrison - FA
  • Hamhuis - FA
  • Tanev - College UFA
  • Ballard - Trade
  • Barker - FA
  • Alberts - Trade
  • Kassian - Trade
  • Ebbett - FA
  • Pinizotto - FA
  • Higgins - Trade
  • Lapierre - Trade
  • Schroeder - Draft
  • Weise - Waiver Claim
  • Malhotra - UFA (thanks '-Trapped In CDC-')
Notable Draft Picks:

Cody Hodgson - 2008 1st
Yann Sauve - 2008 2nd
Jordan Schroeder - 2009 1st
Kevin Connauton - 2009 3rd
Joe Cannata - 2009 6th
Alex Friesen - 2010 6th
Nicklas Jensen - 2011 1st
Alexander Grenier - 2011 3rd
Frank Corrado - 2011 5th
Brendan Gaunce - 2012 1st
Alexandre Mallet - 2012 2nd
Ben Hutton - 2012 3rd

-----------------------

In the end we lost (bold aren't playing in NHL anymore):
  • THREE top 4 D men (2 shut down and 1 two way) (1 not playing)
  • A #5 or 6 big body D man
  • A 2nd line center, 2nd line winger
  • Two 3rd line wingers (1 not playing)
  • Two 4th line wingers
  • A depth forward
  • An elite young defense prospect (1st rounder)
  • An elite young center prospect (1st rounder)
  • A top winger prospect (1st rounder)
  • SIX picks 4th round or higher (excluding 3rd/4th picks received and then re-traded away)
in exchange we got:
  • THREE top 4 two-way defensemen AND a prospect top 4 defenseman
  • Two depth defensemen
  • A 3rd line winger and a 2nd/3rd line winger
  • Two 4th line centers, a 4th line winger
  • 2 depth forwards
  • An elite young power forward prospect
Plus:
  • The core of our team re-signed to contracts that are manageable and stable.
  • Stable management group, changes as Gillis saw fit
  • A "no stone left unturned" ethos when it comes to supporting the players and giving them the best chance possible to win on the ice, with their preparation and planning off the ice
-------------

You can go through it transaction by transaction and see that he wins some undisputed-ly (e.g. Higgins/Lappy/Hamhuis/Samuelsson) and loses some (e.g. losing Grabner/1st/Bernier for Ballard). There were lots of transactions in the middle, as the team evolved and different things were tried (e.g. Sundin, Demitra) - but in the end, looking at what we had compared to where we are now as a result of the changes he's made is probably most important.

In general he's allowed our previous younger players grow into larger roles, and has surrounded them with better role players than in the past - with the exception of defense, which only has Bieksa/Edler from before Gillis. Still, both of these players were signed to deals to keep them here because they were identified as valuable to the future (v.s. Ohlund/Salo due to age, Mitchell due to potential concussion issues... even though he won a cup 2 years later)

*may have missed someone you think is notable. either its a mistake or i just didn't think it was a big enough deal, mike weaver!

Edited by gushybear, 22 March 2013 - 08:18 PM.

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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#8 brewdog

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:59 AM

I don't think he's hit a homerun with any player transactions, but I've always been impressed that he was able to sign Hart, Art Ross, and Selke winners for well below market value.

$19M/season for Kesler, Sedin, Sedin, and Burrows for the past few years. That's easily about $27M on the market. Gillis did a great job of signing that talented core, giving himself tonnes of room to round out the rest of the team. That's a big reason why this team has been so successful in recent years.
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#9 hockeyfan87

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:08 AM

I'm one of the harshest GIllis critics I know but to the poster "gushybear" please do not include the tragic losses of Luc Bourdon and Rick Rypien as "notable net losses" during Gillis' tenure. Mike Gillis is not responsible for these as they were not hockey transactions or losses that he could have prevented.

I absolutely loathe many of the hockey moves Gillis had made over the course of the last five years but one thing I commend him for is creating a first class organization in terms of doing what's right for the players, fans, and community.




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#10 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:18 AM

Gillis has not only created a mini-dynasty that has strongly contended for the Cup every year for the last handful of seasons, but has developed the Vancouver Canucks into a world-class organization. His tenure in Vancouver coincided with the new facilities, stadium improvements and so much more. The things MG has done for this team goes far beyond what we see on the ice and even off it - he has created a winning reputation in Vancouver similar to that of the Red Wings which is applaudable in itself.
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#11 Edlerberry

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:23 AM

I'm one of the harshest GIllis critics I know but to the poster "gushybear" please do not include the tragic losses of Luc Bourdon and Rick Rypien as "notable net losses" during Gillis' tenure.


I would say they are both notable, and they were both lost during GIllis's Tenure. Its what happened while he was GM. Its the same thing as players retiring, it happened while he was there. He had to replace these players, and that is what he did.

I don't mean any disrespect to both of these players, they were essentially the best they could be for their age and roles, and it is a tragic loss. Nothing I said has defamed them in any way, nor did I say that Gillis is the reason they are no longer here.

Stop reading between the lines, learn what the words "notable", "net" and "losses" mean, and go derail a different thread.
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#12 tas

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:01 AM

Gillis has not only created a mini-dynasty that has strongly contended for the Cup every year for the last handful of seasons, but has developed the Vancouver Canucks into a world-class organization. His tenure in Vancouver coincided with the new facilities, stadium improvements and so much more. The things MG has done for this team goes far beyond what we see on the ice and even off it - he has created a winning reputation in Vancouver similar to that of the Red Wings which is applaudable in itself.


are you kidding? dynasties don't contend for cups, they win them. do you consider the alfredsson-heatley-spezza senators a "mini-dynasty"? how about the briere-drury sabres? ovechkin-backstrom-green capitals? thornton-marleau sharks?

as far as the "world class organization" (that still can't land a big name free agent that isn't from bc, sundin notwithstanding) part, aquilini poured the money in and would have done so no matter who was at the helm.

here's what gillis has done: created a culture for the canucks that is universally reviled around the league; alienated other gm's; re-signed existing players that would have happened anyway (sedins were on their way to a new contract with nonis when he was fired and the process had to start from scratch); let highly valued team veterans and other vital pieces walk for
nothing; traded dressing room leaders and well liked players (samuelsson) that are huge for team chemistry for useless pieces; forced one of the best-liked guys in team history into retirement under the guise of safety concerns; created an internal salary cap that has eliminated any possibility of the team landing legitimate difference makers (like a number one defenceman, which the team has never had and will never win the cup without), instead choosing to hand out boat loads of cash and no trade clauses to average players; mismanaged two excellent goaltenders to the point where the best goalie in team history is being wrongfully forced out; made the prospect pool even worse than it was despite spending more on scouting and development than any team in the league (who the hell does ron delorme have dirt on to last through so many regimes despite a dismal record?).

i could probably go on.
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#13 Kevin Biestra

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:43 AM

He built the most skilled team the NHL has seen in about 3 or 4 decades...


1991 / 92 Pittsburgh Penguins - 2.1 decades ago...
1988 Edmonton Oilers - 2.5 decades ago...
1983 New York Islanders - 3.0 decades ago...

I wouldn't really say the 2011 Canucks were more skilled than the 2009 Penguins...

I could probably list several more. The 2011 Canucks were a hell of a team, but I think that time frame is a bit on the wild side.

Edited by Kevin Biestra, 22 March 2013 - 07:44 AM.

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#14 pdc

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:00 AM

He built the most skilled team the NHL has seen in about 3 or 4 decades which really should of won a Cup. It didn't,


I think you would have a pretty hard time arguing that point. They were good but most skilled team in the past 30-40 years no.
But I don't disagree with you you other than that. Gillis has done a good job, we are always mentioned now when the topic of who will win the cup this year. Which has not been the case at all prior to MG. I probably would've done a few things differently like trade some of the role players after a good season for draft picks, keep the team young and good. For instance Sedins have turned a few players into high scoring wingers. So I'm sure after Burrows 30 goal season he could've been traded a nice blue chip player and or high draft pick. But no guarantee that would've worked out any better.
Gillis is a good GM you just can't expect to be on the very top of the league forever. People just need to accept that. When are picks are all later in the rounds we are going to lose some ground on teams picking higher in the draft.

Edited by pdc, 22 March 2013 - 08:02 AM.

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#15 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:08 AM

Did a decade change? I'm not always "up" with the times. It's still 10 years right?


Also Gushy that was a fantastic post. People get all emo on here and start hating on everything they can and pissing and moaning about the people doing a job they have no clue about. It's nice to see cold hard facts presented.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 22 March 2013 - 08:09 AM.

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#16 aqua59

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:15 AM

MG in my mind gets wat too much credit. What has he really done. Re-sign the Sedins and Burrows. They would sign anyhow. Eerhoff deal was good at the time. What else? Trade all our prospects. Sign bad deals? He inheritated his team in my mind. And please don't comment brought to SC final. Like I said the team was inherited. His moves since have shown what we have on the ice now. AHL quality forwards. Time for a change Gillis your done

Can anyone essemble a list.?


:picard:
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#17 Dr. J.

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:17 AM

Meanwhile, last night in Buffalo, Erhoff and Hodgson combined for five points. Just sayin'.
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#18 TimberWolf

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:30 AM

Meanwhile, last night in Buffalo, Erhoff and Hodgson combined for five points. Just sayin'.


Except you are not "just saying" Have fun being a Sabres fan.

The only move I didn't like was not keeping Torres, everything else was fine.
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I was saying Lu-Urns...

star-wars-hockey-goal.gif?w=284

#19 ice orca

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:32 AM

Meanwhile, last night in Buffalo, Erhoff and Hodgson combined for five points. Just sayin'.

Meanwhile last night in Buffalo, Hodgson was directly responsible for the Leafs 4th goal.
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#20 gurn

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:02 AM

way too much credit being given to MG for "creating a first class org.'
I think this team has been 1st class for years and he has done a good job in keeping it that way. This is mainly in regards to community outreach and such.

Not a big fan of alot of his player transactions.
Hodgson
Sundin
almost any florida trade.
etc.
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#21 Peaches

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:13 AM

Cons:

Ballard trade
Sundin contract
Luongo contract
Letting Torres go


Pros:

Hamhuis signing
Lapierre trade
Higgins trade
Re-signing Sedins
Drafting Jensen at 29th and Corrado in 7th round
Things like sleep doctors
Tanev signing


It would be unfair to say Garrison (give him a bit of time), Booth (injured a majority of time), Hodgson trade (only time will tell), and Malhotra (eye injury) are cons.

Edited by -Trapped In CDC-, 22 March 2013 - 09:14 AM.

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#22 Aladeen

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:18 AM

Who cares what he's done? It will be this trade deadline and draft that will define MG's tenure here... he scores some homeruns this year and his mistakes will be forgiven... he strikesout and any wins he has had will be erased and said mistakes will be magnified.
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#23 Peaches

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:19 AM

While normally I'd make fun of your inability to spell, I was kind of interested in looking at this a bit as well.

Notable Net Losses:

  • Grabner - Trade
  • Mitchell - UFA
  • Morrison - UFA
  • Naslund - UFA
  • Linden - Retired
  • O'Brien - Trade for Parent (aka nothing)
  • Shannon - Trade for nothing
  • Pyatt - UFA
  • 2010 1st rounder (Ballard)
  • 2010 2nd (Bernier)
  • 2009 3rd (Bernier)
  • 2010 3rd (Alberts
  • 2011 3rd (Higgins)
  • 2012 4th (Pahlsson)
  • misc 5th+ rounders
  • Rypien(RIP)
  • Bourdon(RIP)
  • Mike Brown - Trade (for nothing)
  • Hodgson - Trade
  • Salo - UFA
  • Ohlund - UFA
Notable Net Gain:
  • Booth - Trade
  • Garrison - FA
  • Hamhuis - FA
  • Tanev - College UFA
  • Ballard - Trade
  • Barker - FA
  • Alberts - Trade
  • Kassian - Trade
  • Ebbett - FA
  • Pinizotto - FA
  • Higgins - Trade
  • Lapierre - Trade
  • Schroeder - Draft
  • Weise - Waiver Claim
Notable Draft Picks:

Cody Hodgson - 2008 1st
Yann Sauve - 2008 2nd
Jordan Schroeder - 2009 1st
Kevin Connauton - 2009 3rd
Joe Cannata - 2009 6th
Alex Friesen - 2010 6th
Nicklas Jensen - 2011 1st
Alexander Grenier - 2011 3rd
Frank Corrado - 2011 5th
Brendan Gaunce - 2012 1st
Alexandre Mallet - 2012 2nd
Ben Hutton - 2012 3rd

-----------------------

In the end we lost (bold aren't playing in NHL anymore):
  • THREE top 4 D men (2 shut down and 1 two way) (1 not playing)
  • A #5 or 6 big body D man
  • A 2nd line center, 2nd line winger
  • Two 3rd line wingers (1 not playing)
  • Two 4th line wingers
  • A depth forward
  • An elite young defense prospect (1st rounder)
  • An elite young center prospect (1st rounder)
  • A top winger prospect (1st rounder)
  • SIX picks 4th round or higher (excluding 3rd/4th picks received and then re-traded away)
in exchange we got:
  • THREE top 4 two-way defensemen AND a prospect top 4 defenseman
  • Two depth defensemen
  • A 3rd line winger and a 2nd/3rd line winger
  • A 4th line center, a 4th line winger
  • 2 depth forwards
  • An elite young power forward prospect
Plus:
  • The core of our team re-signed to contracts that are manageable and stable.
  • Stable management group, changes as Gillis saw fit
  • A "no stone left unturned" ethos when it comes to supporting the players and giving them the best chance possible to win on the ice, with their preparation and planning off the ice
-------------

You can go through it transaction by transaction and see that he wins some undisputed-ly (e.g. Higgins/Lappy/Hamhuis/Samuelsson) and loses some (e.g. losing Grabner/1st/Bernier for Ballard). There were lots of transactions in the middle, as the team evolved and different things were tried (e.g. Sundin, Demitra) - but in the end, looking at what we had compared to where we are now as a result of the changes he's made is probably most important.

In general he's allowed our previous younger players grow into larger roles, and has surrounded them with better role players than in the past - with the exception of defense, which only has Bieksa/Edler from before Gillis. Still, both of these players were signed to deals to keep them here because they were identified as valuable to the future (v.s. Ohlund/Salo due to age, Mitchell due to potential concussion issues... even though he won a cup 2 years later)

*may have missed someone you think is notable. either its a mistake or i just didn't think it was a big enough deal, mike weaver!


You should add Volpatti and Pahlsson to "notable net losses".

Add Malhotra to gains.

Edited by -Trapped In CDC-, 22 March 2013 - 09:22 AM.

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#24 ice orca

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:19 AM

Cons:

Ballard trade
Sundin contract
Luongo contract
Letting Torres go


Pros:

Hamhuis signing
Lapierre trade
Higgins trade
Re-signing Sedins
Drafting Jensen at 29th and Corrado in 7th round
Things like sleep doctors
Tanev signing


It would be unfair to say Garrison (give him a bit of time), Booth (injured a majority of time), Hodgson trade (only time will tell), and Malhotra (eye injury) are cons.

Throw Gaunce into your pro's this kid might make a lot of people forget Hodgson even existed.
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#25 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:20 AM

Pros: Done everything but win a cup.

Cons: Has yet to win a cup.
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#26 nitti999

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:26 AM

He must be very young


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#27 nitti999

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:35 AM

Honestly people many people on this board sometimes! A few small spelling mistakes, big deal. I posted this from my iPhone and did not proof it correctly and so many complaints. Did I not get my question across? I have been a member on this site for what ten years. So annoying it makes me want to stop posting
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#28 westcoast

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:44 AM

I like all the moves Gillis tries to do for the most part,the problem is he whiffs on 95% of them.
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#29 Westcoasting

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:44 AM

He built the most skilled team the NHL has seen in about 3 or 4 decades which really should of won a Cup. It didn't, he learned from this mistake (hardly his fault) and is now adapting the Canucks to a team that is more likely to win a Cup in today's NHL - a bigger, stronger, more physical team.


You are delusional when you say 3 or 4 decades, they haven't even been the most skilled in the last 3 or 4 years.
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#30 cbdoubleu

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:45 AM

As far a losing Grabner, I don't think Grabner is the calibre of player every Gillis-critic wants to paint him as. Yeah he scored a bunch of goals one season, but he's pretty one dimensional, and was playing on a team that no other team took seriously. Booth scored 30 in Florida too. 30 goals on a last place club is like scoring 15 on a club that every other team is gunning for. Notice Grabner scored 30, and since then teams took notice and started putting better pairings out against him. But again, people want to blow it up like Gillis traded a 8 time 40 goal guy for Keith Ballard.
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