Can we please get over this obsession with size? Make Canuck Hockey fun to watch again

[.Naslund]

Your asking me to be realistic? Pretty sure I am being realistic thats my whole point. Ritchie makes way more sense then Ehlers for a handful of reasons for the canucks. Plus from what ive heard from Linden Ritchie is exactly what they want. Size and decent speed.

My point wasn't about Ritchie or anything. I'm just sick and tired of people saying we shouldn't draft so and so player because we have a prospect already taking up that spot. Its unrealistic to think that every prospect will reach their career projection, and it is not redundant to pick a player who may be similar.....because one or even both may not make it.

Sorry for taking it out on you though

[Smashian Kassian]

+1 well said.

Even the Bruins being big & tough is totally overrated.

Lucic was the only big mean player, the rest of there key forward group consistented of offensive players like Krejci, Ryder, Seguin, Recchi, Bergeron, & Marchand.

People can blame Torts all you want for changing the style of play (and I want him gone aswell) but the fact is his team last year in New York scored more goals than the Canucks did last season under AV.

I do think this year Torts style had an effect on the game offensively, but we had been struggling offensive long before Torts was here. So he's not to blame.

Get back to offensive hockey, get back to playing a game around speed, puck possession and offense. Thats what we don't have, thats why we this organization is in such shambles.

[Smashian Kassian]

Yeah, arguing FOR our historical drafting is an uphill battle, my friend.

Fyi picking the best player means taking into account speed, skill and size. If the small guy is as skilled as Kane, then the risk you take on his size is worth it. If the guy is huge, but slow, then you have to take his speed into account. If the guy is small and slow, then you have to be prepared for him to have an AHL career.

Selecting small just just because you like flash is a seriously flawed approach to take. Even a team full of Patrick Kanes would fail. You need the Toews'. You need the Bickell's. It's just about selecting the legit best players available, not the mythical ones. The long-shots. Save the long-shots for later rounds like most teams do.

We have the Toews, we have the Bickells. We lack the Kane.

Look at our team, even our prospects, we have big guys, we have two-way forwards, we lack high end skill clearly.

Winning doesn't happen for teams built just on small guys your right, teams built on big guys won't win either. Its about having a mix of alot of things, and near the very top of that list of things is offense. We don't have the offense, thats the bottom line.

With some of the other two-way prospects & big prospects we have, we could really use some high end skill with this pick, a player that can score & create offense & help the PP.

Selecting Ehlers or Nylander with this pick doesn't mean we are building a team full of midgets, it means that like every other team that won the cup we have a high end offensive player. That can carry alot of the offense for the team.

[Smashian Kassian]

Notice a trend here?
Unless you have Sidney Crosby, you are not winning the Stanley Cup with small centres who are known mostly for their offensive abilities. Either they are tall and can handle the playoffs physically (Getzlaf, Malkin, Kopitar, Handzus) or defensive (Toews, Pahlsson, Madden, Staal, Bergeron, Bolland).

Luckily for you there are now smaller centers likely to be taken at our pick (Nylander is more likely a winger in the NHL). So nothing to worry about.

[ice orca]

Most of those teams were horrible for years and ended up with 2 or more great high draft picks. Detroit is the exception to the rule, Edmonton is the runt of the bunch. New NHL big fast and young, we need the right coatch and GM to make it work, have fun with the rebuild it's not going to happen overnight. Do Vancouver fans have the patience for a proper 3-4 year rebuild?

[SuperReverb2]

I feel it's best to have a team that not only has size, but speed and skill as well. Been lot's of "speedy", skilled teams that have done well in the regular season, only to get crushed as the playoffs progress by a team that has size and grit. (and of course some skill as well) Canucks and Bruins in 2011 anybody? Can't really go all in either way in this NHL. Gillis said it best when he said he was tired of chasing a moving goal post. Seems the regular season is played one way and the playoffs are played a different way. East Coast style vs West Coast style as well. "Fun" hockey may fill the seats, but if "fun" hockey doesn't equate to winning seasons or a Stanley Cup down the road you know that's not going to last for long. Winning is what it is all about, and I'm pretty sure the bottom line is doing whatever it takes to win rather than not winning at all. An ugly win is still a win in most peoples books.

[Canuckz101]

Ive done my research and Ritchie at 6th seems like the best option. Virtanen a close second. The euros I havent seen play, and they dont blow me away from what ive seen/heard. Ehlers looks like he could be a player, but hes redundant when we already have Shinkaruk at the same position. You think they are going to take Ehlers at 6th, when they could take a player they desperately need for the division they are in? Ritchie makes WAY more sense in every way. Virtanen has a chance to get selected as well since he has size, speed and is a home town boy. If we take Ehlers ill be absolutely shocked. They would have to be in love with the guy as much as SNYPER is.

Actually, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Ehlers getting picked at #6 by us. Why? because he's an absolute offensively gifted player that is dangerous every time he steps on the ice, always a threat to score. Let's all cut the Ehlers love crap thing, it's starting to sound a little annoying. There is a very good reason so many people are zeroing in on him. It's spelled T-A-L-E-N-T. The guy is obviously an offensive gem with speed to burn and what's best is that he can actually handle the puck at that high speed. So many players lack that combination. They either have one or the other but not both especially at the speed he skates! This is a deadly combination and EXACTLY what we need to jumpstart an aging , uncreative, inneffective offence going forward. Linden and company want to light a fire under every Canuck fan and and bring "fun" and "exciting" back into the Canuck vocabulary. Basically they need to sell tickets and put butts back in the seats and what better way than to draft an exciting, explosive young prospect with an offensive upside like Ehlers. WE NEED OFFENSE!! I don't care that he's not 6'ft 5" - 240 lbs or whatever. That experiment is getting us nowhere plus it is quite boring hockey from an entertainment standpoint. We have some big enough bodies already in our system that we can put him out there with some big forwards ( eg: Jensen , Kassian..) and the space he would create with his speed would open so many opportunities for his teammates. The dynamic could work. I think he'll fill out a little more given his young age. In summary, I completely agree with Hank Moody on this one. It would be a no brainer to nab this kid if he's available at our pick. Let's bring back the up-tempo exciting hockey that made us successful. Speed still burns especially when it's packaged with blue-chip talent. There, done.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

Actually, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Ehlers getting picked at #6 by us. Why? because he's an absolute offensively gifted player that is dangerous every time he steps on the ice, always a threat to score. Let's all cut the Ehlers love crap thing, it's starting to sound a little annoying. There is a very good reason so many people are zeroing in on him. It's spelled T-A-L-E-N-T. The guy is obviously an offensive gem with speed to burn and what's best is that he can actually handle the puck at that high speed. So many players lack that combination. They either have one or the other but not both especially at the speed he skates! This is a deadly combination and EXACTLY what we need to jumpstart an aging , uncreative, inneffective offence going forward. Linden and company want to light a fire under every Canuck fan and and bring "fun" and "exciting" back into the Canuck vocabulary. Basically they need to sell tickets and put butts back in the seats and what better way than to draft an exciting, explosive young prospect with an offensive upside like Ehlers. WE NEED OFFENSE!! I don't care that he's not 6'ft 5" - 240 lbs or whatever. That experiment is getting us nowhere plus it is quite boring hockey from an entertainment standpoint. We have some big enough bodies already in our system that we can put him out there with some big forwards ( eg: Jensen , Kassian..) and the space he would create with his speed would open so many opportunities for his teammates. The dynamic could work. I think he'll fill out a little more given his young age. In summary, I completely agree with Hank Moody on this one. It would be a no brainer to nab this kid if he's available at our pick. Let's bring back the up-tempo exciting hockey that made us successful. Speed still burns especially when it's packaged with blue-chip talent. There, done.

This. The skill level of Ritchie and Virtanen isn't even close to what Ehlers brings. Both are big, fast and have good shots, but that's pretty much it. Ehlers' shot is at least equal to theirs, but his skating, hands, vision, smarts and overall skill level leaves them in the dust. Yes, there is a legitimate question about Ehlers' size and durability, but he's no perimeter player, and cuts to the middle at speed more frequently than the prototypical power forwards Ritchie and Virtanen, who do a lot of their scoring on breakaways, and don't have the skill to stickhandle inside effectively. So if we're talking skill and exciting hockey, it's Ehlers all the way. Despite what Linden said about size, the report that Gillman watched a whole Halifax series shows they are taking Ehlers very seriously. The combine should tell the story about where he's at size-wise, and presumably they do a risk assessment at that point. If we take Ritchie after doing due diligence, I can live with that. If Dal Colle or Draisaitl fall, I could even be happy about not taking Ehlers. But there's no way they're writing him off like the Boston wannabes on this board.

[hockeywoot]

and the kings have been exposed by the speed of the sharks

Yup.

Funny thing, it wasn't that long ago that the Sharks were not at all considered a fast team. They made slight adjustments to systems, and personnel..

[hockeywoot]

to the OP.

Hodgson is marginally more skilled than Kassian (if at all). He's also hella slow, and not that big.

Shouldn't be looking to get less skilled. Its not about sacrificing one for the other. Ideally you can have both.

The Bruins are big and skilled, the Ducks are big and skilled, the Blues are big and skilled, LA are big and skilled, San Jose are big and skilled.

Heck, the Hawks have some decent size on their team. Hossa, Saad, Bickell.

The Canucks current transition game under Torts is the biggest culprit if anything. I don't think we're significantly less skilled than previously. (with exception to the PP)

[Frazzy Desjardins]

Playing bigger and tougher is a mindset. No doubt you need SOME size but ultimately it is a culture in the dressing room. This is why I think Torts should stay another year, he has that tough passion and with some upgrades and moves this season under a new management regime, and an injection of upbeat youth, we can accomplish this.

Look at Chicago, they aren't known as a tough beat u up team but they are successful. It's all about the culture in the room.

[CanuckleHorse]

So a hater wishes the Canucks to stay small and weak must be an Oiler fan!

[TOMapleLaughs]

We have the Toews, we have the Bickells. We lack the Kane.

Look at our team, even our prospects, we have big guys, we have two-way forwards, we lack high end skill clearly.

Winning doesn't happen for teams built just on small guys your right, teams built on big guys won't win either. Its about having a mix of alot of things, and near the very top of that list of things is offense. We don't have the offense, thats the bottom line.

With some of the other two-way prospects & big prospects we have, we could really use some high end skill with this pick, a player that can score & create offense & help the PP.

Selecting Ehlers or Nylander with this pick doesn't mean we are building a team full of midgets, it means that like every other team that won the cup we have a high end offensive player. That can carry alot of the offense for the team.

Stopped reading at 'We have the Toews' because that's pretty damn significant.

Where is our can't-miss franchise center with elite offensive and defensive skill? Are you referring to Henrik Sedin? Or perhaps Ryan Kesler? Maybe Sedin and Kesler combined? Not sure. Or are you referring to Horvat? Please tell me you are not referring to Horvat.

[Absent Canuck]

Your spouting nonsense. At least come with a worthwhile argument. Virtanen and Ritchie are both good skaters. Especially Virtanen who might be as fast as Ehlers. Lots of players picked 6th overall become top players.

When attempting to slag someone at least spell it right.

It's ..." you're spouting nonsense"............ It makes you look foolish. You also may want to avoid personal attacks on others character. Its called an 'ad hominem' attack. Irrelevant to the subject at hand.

Finally, outright lying isn't going to help your rant. Ritchie and Vitanen is nowhere near as fast as Ehlers. In fact, some are saying Ehlers is the fastest guy in the last 2 years. That includes Drouin and MacKinnnon. Two different universes.

Attacking me isnt going to help Vitanen get picked 6th overall. Ranting and raving on here wont make a bit of difference in the world. He should go 9th or 10th . Perhaps we can snag the Ottawa first to get him.

[Absent Canuck]

Stopped reading at 'We have the Toews' because that's pretty damn significant.

Where is our can't-miss franchise center with elite offensive and defensive skill? Are you referring to Henrik Sedin? Or perhaps Ryan Kesler? Maybe Sedin and Kesler combined? Not sure. Or are you referring to Horvat? Please tell me you are not referring to Horvat.

Ok I will. The only caveat I add is what our definition of 'franchise' center is. Horvat is a cant miss blue chip. He is probably a cant miss selke nominated 20 goal guy consistently. If we consider that 'franchise' then yeah. I think if we combine that with strong leadership then I accept that.

If franchise means 30 goals 80 points go to offensive guru, it may be wishful thinking.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Ok I will. The only caveat I add is what our definition of 'franchise' center is. Horvat is a cant miss blue chip. He is probably a cant miss selke nominated 20 goal guy consistently. If we consider that 'franchise' then yeah. I think if we combine that with strong leadership then I accept that.

If franchise means 30 goals 80 points go to offensive guru, it may be wishful thinking.

Pretty much. We'd be putting way too much pressure on Horvat if we expect him to be a Toews. Too bad there is no Toews or Kane in this draft though. We should revolve a legit plan around next years' draft perhaps, and pick up some character this year. Some intimidation factor, sans retarded penalties. Or perhaps a bluechip d-man.

[FlyLow_]

Its a systems problem. Puck possession is the way to win in the NHL. LA is an enigma they play the dump and chase to perfection. They are a terrible offensive team.

Hard to win playing a collapsing D, you need speed in transition of you want to play that way. The Canucks are far from a fast team.

There needs to be a huge effort by Canucks new management to address the lack of skill and foot speed, even the big teams like LA, Boston, and Anaheim outskate us. Agree 100% about a puck possession system being the only way to go.

[Merci]

I didnt read any of that.

But the title was stupid

[FlyLow_]

Playing bigger and tougher is a mindset. No doubt you need SOME size but ultimately it is a culture in the dressing room. This is why I think Torts should stay another year, he has that tough passion and with some upgrades and moves this season under a new management regime, and an injection of upbeat youth, we can accomplish this.

Look at Chicago, they aren't known as a tough beat u up team but they are successful. It's all about the culture in the room.

Having 6 of the best players in the NHL is not a culture, chicago is highly skilled at forward and at the back end and that is why they are successful. Don't get me wrong, Torts has done some good things with team toughness and forechecking, but he needs to adapt to a puck possession style that values passing over chipping the puck off the glass or he needs to go.

[oldnews]

So I was on board with Gillis when he traded away Cody Hodgson for the soon-to-be big and mean power forward in Kassian who would tarnish opponents with his mighty size and bring us a Lucic-esque edge to the team that we so sorely need.

But I am absolutely BORED of the product on the ice.

What's my point? My point is that because we went through a 2 year period where the teams who won the cup were built on size and were able to manhandle other teams, it doesnt mean that its a championship TREND. Or the ONLY WAY to win a cup. Why is it that when Pittsburgh and Detroit won their cups, the league never praised "size" or the "Boston model"? The league praised good drafting, puck possession, speed, and skill. All of a sudden Boston and LA win cups and now we throw that all out of the window?

I don't disagree entirely, but your starting point here doesn't help you make your case.

If you in fact want to see up-tempo, puck possession hockey, the last thing you should be complaining about is the Kassian trade, as if that signals some kind of departure. Kassian is both a better puck possession player than Hodgson, and a much faster, more mobile player. He also arguably has a skillset to match - he just happens to be bigger and possess a great deal more grit. So - if you like puck possession hockey, then look at their underlying numbers and the myth here will be put to rest. Kassian has had better underlying numbers than Hodgson since day 1 - and has produced very comparable pp/60 this season, with virtually no powerplay minutes and playing on the Canucks third line. Kassian can flat out skate, and has great vision, with puck possession passing skills in a class with the best of them. The fact he can handle himself on the boards and knock out Ben Eager for taking runs at the Sedins is the win-win aspect. Being bigger does not necessarily equal an inferior puck possession player and the boring style of hockey you are seeing is not due to size or allegedly 'Bostonizing' the roster (in fact not many changes have been made).