A Toxic Culture of Negativity - Vancouver Courier Article

[TFerguson]

HI all,
 

I'm a new poster (but long time reader) on here so please feel free to point me in the right direction if I put things in the wrong places.
 

I would love to get your opinions on Daniel Wagner's article in the Vancouver Courier today:

Brandon Sutter’s balls and a culture of negativity (link: HERE)

I really appreciated and agreed with several of the points he raised. Specifically, that "the Canucks have an obsession with culture...that is starting to look toxic" which works itself out in the following ways:

 

1) The refusal to fully acknowledge and embrace a rebuild.

 

I know some would object and say that a rebuild is exactly what's currently happening. I get that. But I also think there continues to be reasons for skepticism: Players that have been signed, the refusal to use the "R" word, and the fact that our coach, at least to my eye, doesn't seem to be on the same page. 

 

2)  The handling of Goldobin. 

 

I was so excited when we signed Goldy and still am. But I've been frustrated watching the way he's been handled so far. I see the need to develop his work ethic, grit, defensive positioning, and willingness to go to the hard areas. But I also see a kid who appears to be fairly sensitive (despite talking a big game) and could use some evidences of his coaches' confidence in him; not just for a game or two but a consistent level of confidence that would allow him to make mistakes and keep getting opportunities. 
It seems to me that our obsession with a "work ethic" culture has left us rewarding what would normally be the right things but in our current situation are robbing us of the very few unique (potential) talents we have on this team. 
BTW - I felt the same dynamic in play with WD's comments toward Tryamkin after the Boston game. 

 

3) The inability to model hope for the future and positivity in the middle of present struggle. 

 

I think there's a way to spin the whole situation we're currently in as very positive but right now our attempts at building a certain kind of culture are getting in the way.
 

• I would love for the kids to get to play. Really play. Not without consequences but with the kind of confidence from management and leadership that fosters a sense of stability for the players to go out, make some mistakes, and get right back out there. 
   
• I would love management to come out tell the fans that we're rebuilding, it's going to be painful, drop prices a little, and ask us to support a team with our eyes on the future and not the present (which is where they've been trying to force us to look since 2013-14).
   
• And almost most of all, I would love to have a coach in place that will design a structure around the greatest attributes of the players he has rather than one who constantly tries to fit each of his players (from different cultures, at different ages, and with different abilities) into one mold and only gauge their effectiveness on the ice by that standard. I want a progressive coach next year. One who loves working with young players and helping them grow - as opposed to one who needs his arm twisted to get around to it. 

 

One last thing, while I don't share the author's (apparent) level of animosity toward Sutter, I do find it very annoying that Sutter - considering his play this year - has taken it upon himself to call out one of our younger players that has a far greater (potential) ceilings than he does. 

 

Anyways, would love any of your thoughts on this stuff. 

 

[Gaudette Celly]

Speaking of negativity...

[PuckYa]

I'm yet to see a player make it to the NHL without some tough coaching & tough love.

Godoblin has been given more of an opportunity here in a short time than he ever got in years from San Jose.

 

[Alflives]

Excellent article.  Does the negativity start with JB or is it Willie D?

[Tre Mac]

People don't like it when you just post a link.

 

Quote

The Canucks have an obsession with culture.

 

It’s why they won’t embrace a full rebuild, for fear of establishing a “losing culture.” It’s why all their messaging emphasizes their compete level; their hard-working culture. It’s a culture of defensive responsibility, sticking with the structure, and earning your ice time.

 

It’s a culture that is starting to look toxic.

 

When Nikolay Goldobin joined the Canucks, there was a fair amount of anticipation in the Canucks fanbase, as the team desperately needed a young player with his offensive skillset. He immediately made an impact, scoring a highlight reel goal in his very first game. He was promptly benched. Presumably, it was because he blew the zone early, though watching the replay reveals little risk in his decision to jump up. It seemed like a perfect example of how to crush a player’s confidence: punishing them for something inherently positive. What was Goldobin to think?

 

Then, in his first opportunity to play against his former team, the San Jose Sharks, he was made a healthy scratch. Desjardins made his displeasure with the 21 year old clear, criticizing him for not working hard enough. “He’s a skilled player,” he said, “But you’ve gotta get your skill working hard.”

 

There are some things to unpack there — sometimes skilled players make difficult things look easy and it takes a tremendous amount of hard work to get to that point — but let's just talk about his willingness to openly criticize a young player who just recently joined his team. Desjardins’ all-stick-no-carrot approach seemed to open up the door for his veterans to chime in, with Brandon Sutter notably calling out Goldobin for his play away from the puck.

 

“You have to have the want to get the puck to go into the corners and the hard areas,” said Sutter. “To do that, you have to have grit and balls and he has to find that.” There’s some subtle toxic masculinity thrown in here for good measure, as Sutter, perhaps unintentionally, questions Goldobin’s manhood. Goldobin lacks grit and balls, so he’s clearly a lesser player than Sutter, whose balls have just the right amount of grit. This is what passes for leadership and character, apparently.

 

Frankly, Sutter isn’t particularly effective in the corners or hard areas of the ice, frequently losing puck battles and getting hemmed in the defensive zone. Of note, Goldobin has a 32.6% corsi while playing with Sutter; he has a 50.4% corsi away from Sutter. Desjardins’ criticism of Goldobin, who has played just 9 games for the Canucks, the bulk of those coming after a brutal illness that saw him lose 16 pounds, also turned on a green light for certain segments of the media, who have gone after Goldobin hard. TSN 1040 has been nigh-unlistenable with the way guys like Don Taylor have ripped Goldobin with very little basis.

 

On an appearance on Kurtenblog Radio, Paul Gackle with the San Jose Mercury News made it clear that the “tough love” approach was absolutely the wrong way to handle Goldobin, but it seems like that’s the only tool in Desjardins' belt. "You kind of have to boost him up," said Gackle. "You have to make him feel good about himself. When he’s not feeling good about himself, that’s when he really struggles." It even got to the point that Ryan Miller felt it necessary to give Goldobin some positive feedback.

 

At the end of practice, Miller took a knee with Goldobin at centre ice for a long chat. “I just thought he looked good today,” said Miller, “and he looked like he needed somebody to tell him he was good.” It’s probably a sign that your confidence has been beaten to bits when someone can tell just by looking at you that you need someone to tell you you’re good. On Tuesday, Goldobin got back in the lineup and was put in what used to be a prime opportunity: riding shotgun with the Sedins. But where the Sedins used to prop up lesser players with their playmaking ability, it was Goldobin that seemed to revitalize the Sedins. He was one of the best players for the Canucks, putting himself in position for two great scoring chances and creating a couple more with his vision and passing. But Desjardins couldn’t help himself, criticizing him for his inability to capitalize on those chances. It’s a classic example of moving the goalposts. Besides, if you’re going to rip players for failing to finish, the entire Canucks roster should have targets on their backs, not just one young player who has heard enough criticism as it is.

 

In many ways, it seems like Desjardins was resentful of having to put Goldobin on the ice with the Sedins. It really seemed like it was not his decision. That’s just speculation, but a sign of it potentially being true was how Goldobin didn’t actually play with the Sedins for the entire game. Desjardins didn’t give him much of an opportunity to show his commitment to the defensive side of the game, replacing him with Michael Chaput for several defensive zone faceoffs. Do they or do they not want Goldobin to develop defensively? How is he going to learn to play defence if they keep taking him off the ice when the puck is in the defensive zone? This is particularly true at this point in the season: remember, winning is meaningless right now, so there's literally zero reason to put a more "defensively responsible" player on the ice. If nothing else, you get some more clips to show Goldobin in the video room later. You have to give players room to fail.

 

In Goldobin’s case, he doesn’t even have room to succeed. Look, if Desjardins really wants the fans (or management) off his back, the smartest thing he could do would be to give them what they want: play Goldobin with the Sedins in all situations. Put him on the ice for defensive zone faceoffs and let him fail. Let fans see his defensive deficiencies for themselves and make it eminently clear to Goldobin where he needs to improve. It’s the same argument you could make for Jordan Subban. If the Canucks’ management team really and truly believes that Subban isn’t good enough defensively, the best thing they could do is show the fans exactly that. Get him in a few NHL games. Let him be exposed. Make it clear to both fans and Subban himself what he needs to do to become a legitimate NHL defenceman.

 

There’s another possibility: maybe Goldobin (or Subban) can handle himself in the defensive zone. Maybe with a vote of confidence from the coach and with some more experience, he develops a more well-rounded game by being put in those situations on a regular basis. Most importantly, allow some positivity to seep in. Everything else surrounding the Canucks is negative right now: they’re 7-20-3 since the half-game they played against the Coyotes in January, they can’t score, and they’re losing games within the first minute of puck-drop. Maybe you could stand to have a nice thing to say once in a while about one of the few players who seems to have a hope in hell of actually putting the puck in the net, if only to balance out the bleakness.

 

Because the downward spiral the Canucks are currently in seems to be exactly the type of thing that would create a losing culture. And get Sutter to leave his gritty balls out of it. -

 

See more at: http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/brandon-sutter-s-balls-and-a-culture-of-negativity-1.14278587#sthash.gDfnSrMj.dpuf

Giant wall of text, I tried to edited as best I could before I got bored and regretted even starting to paste this.  I generally agree with the article though.

[tas]

judging from the title I thought this would be about vancouver media. 

[TFerguson]

Not trying to come off negative. I've only missed 2 games this whole year. I'm enjoying where the team is and I'm on board for several years of pain even when the team makes decisions I disagree with. That doesn't mean that there aren't some things I'd like to see change. 

[TFerguson]

Appreciate the tip. Thanks.

[TFerguson]

Good point. 

[Tre Mac]

3 minutes ago, Tre Mac said:

TSN 1040 has been nigh-unlistenable with the way guys like Don Taylor have ripped Goldobin with very little basis.

 

This is so bang on.  That afternoon show is insufferable now, never thought Don Taylor would become biggest blowhard on that station, especially since they still have Bro Jake, but between him and the Moj they offer zero insight and it's been like this for awhile now.  Talk about being out of touch, I am actually kind of glad they lost the radio rights to the Canucks. 

 

[tas]

man I actually read most of that article. garbage. journalistic integrity is dead. 

 

the way the author continually invented context to fit into his narrative, making wild assumptions and omitting genuine context when necessary was emblematic of "new media" and how utterly worthless it is. 

[Whale Tail]

Is the media trying to spin the culture of hard work is becoming a bad locker room scenario? 

 

Im fine with people calling each other out. I wouldn't care if someone called Sutter out either.  Criticism from normally very competitive people in sports. 

[riffraff]

The first I've heard of sutters comments.

 

idiotic comment to be public with.  Personally I find sutter to be streaky, inconsistent, not physical enough and imo, over contracted.

[Slegr]

Interesting read, even if the article is somewhat loose journalism. To me, this whole situation comes back to the fact that our coach isn't a good fit in terms of where we are and where we need to go. He seems to love his structure and demands a certain style from players. Perhaps that's why he chose Vancouver rather than Pittsburgh, because he knew the players wouldn't put up with it in the Pen-house. 

 

Yeah, I just said Pen-house. 

[Gaudette Celly]

Quote

"It’s why they won’t embrace a full rebuild..."

Second sentence in, that was enough to disqualify the rest.

[Ronaldoescobar]

18 minutes ago, riffraff said:

The first I've heard of sutters comments.

 

idiotic comment to be public with.  Personally I find sutter to be streaky, inconsistent, not physical enough and imo, over contracted.

Goldy does need to work harder for sure and he will hopefully learn that in Vancouver... Funny thing is Sutter would be considered garbage and absurdly overpaid on pretty much any other team in the league but gets away with it playing on a horrible Canuck team. 

[Where's Wellwood]

I'm glad TSN 1040 lost the broadcast rights to the Canucks games. Pratt and Jake are awful and the post game shows are so condescending to the caller. I don't have the opportunity to listen other than those times but i assume it's similar levels of $&!#.

 

 

However Pass it to Bulis has also gone downhill. It's funny they slam this toxic negative culture when they spread as much negativity as others.

[TFerguson]

I hope you're right and a full rebuild is already what's happening - if that's what you're saying.

[Kevin Biestra]

46 minutes ago, AllWeatherFan said:

One last thing, while I don't share the author's (apparent) level of animosity toward Sutter, I do find it very annoying that Sutter - considering his play this year - has taken it upon himself to call out one of our younger players that has a far greater (potential) ceilings than he does.

I think having a rule against calling out players with "potentially higher ceilings" than yourself is ridiculous.  It is precisely players with high ceilings that aren't playing to that level who need to be called out, and who better than someone who works hard and plays to his potential.

 

Linden called out Bure for dicking around in practice during the early 1990s.  Bure's ceiling was well above Linden's, but who better in the NHL to call out someone else than the guy who scored two goals in game seven with broken ribs?

[luckylager]

18 minutes ago, riffraff said:

The first I've heard of sutters comments.

 

idiotic comment to be public with.  Personally I find sutter to be streaky, inconsistent, not physical enough and imo, over contracted.

Can I add disappointingly unproductive and overrated?

And just to stick with the negative theme - he doesn't play like a Sutter, more like a Matthias. Take that, "Mr. Balls"