Salmonberries Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 I think this guy (the author of the article) has created his own bubble of negativity to live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 Wagner makes the usual, uninformed comments which evidence that despite years of opportunity to learn about the game, he still doesn't have the slightest idea what he's talking about. To cite Goldobin's corsi with Sutter vs without him is the usual kindergarten analytics of the hero-chart generation - unfortunately far too many of them littering the media landscape. Goldobin's corsi, while playing with a shutdown center in typically dzone start weigthed minutes is not as good as it is with others - ie the Sedins, in ozone start / offensive deployment, where he's sheltered from dzone starts (by subbing in Chaput in those situations). Imagine that. This Wagner dishonestly attempts to pass off as if it adds some substance to his extremely weak criticisms of Sutter's game. That is relatively pathetic, coming from people that purport to understand, let alone use, 'analyticz.' Sutter is an elite faceoff guy, he's plays primarily a shutdown/matchup role against the opposition's best, he takes primarily dzone starts, he's done so this year with a less than healthy supporting cast (in terms of both wingers and the young blueline he's working with), he's obviously been playing injured for quite some time, and nevertheless, he's right there in the range of a 20 goal scorer again, despite playing up ice that is tilted against him. He's third on the team in penalty killing minutes - behind a pair of D (Sbisa and Edler). But the all-of-a-sudden new-leaf Kumbaya media in Vancouver have a problem with him pointing out that a young player needs to engage defensively. I don't have a problem with this - Sutter isn't breaking Goldobin's 'balls' - he's helping him to find them lol. Anyhow - these comments might be problematic if they were directed at someone like Baertschi when he first arrived - with shattered confidence. Goldobin on the other hand walks in with quite healthy estimation of himself - "I'll let my play do the talking". Nothing wrong with that, but if your self-esteem/ego is getting in the way of your development - if you're not engaged, working hard, trying to win puck battles, then you have a problem and probably won't get too far in the league. I think Wagner blows this out of proportion - with liberal doses of creative non-context thrown in - to try to blow some sensitive smoke, as if what Sutter has done here is shatter the young man's manhood. I think it's more the case of Sutter simply saying 'no one floats their way to superstar status in the NHL.' I liken it to the situation in Tampa - although I much prefer Goldobin's personality and attitude over that of Drouin. Drouin needed to listen to what the Steve Yzerman's were telling him - and in due course appears to have. Goldobin will be fine. He's not a shrinking violet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Not a fan of the article by any stretch. I have no issue with WD scolding Goldy, and having players or even assistant coaches trying to prop him up are a great balance to the tough love a coach is supposed to dish out. I still have some faith in Goldy to rise above and be a good player. And while some Sutter criticism may be valid, being a top face-off guy in the league this year, especially with a messed up wrist, should earn him some respect. So much BS in the article about the rebuild etc. just shows me that it's a hack job. Embrace the rebuild, and drop ticket prices? The team is doing worse this year, but experiencing better attendance. Why would they drop ticket prices??? It's like Disneyland... overpriced obviously, but people still keep coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Interesting to see some of the folks who protested forever - wanting to see the end of the "country club" - get so offended by a player - the team's hardest minutes forward actually - suggesting that it takes hard work and engagement to make it at this level. Thankfully we now have some Kumbaya in the media to help soften the hard-core Canucks locker room lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Millennials... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Marchand Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I gave up on PITB after they tweeted something to the effect of "Why don't they call up Subban?" on the day of Griffen Molino's first game. Right, unnecessarily call up one of Utica's better defenceman (who is actually AHL eligible unlike all of the Canucks players who debuted with the team after the trade deadline) while they're in the thick of a playoff race to play mean-nothing games here. Genius. I don't blame people in the organization for being frustrated, every single small thing the team does gets over-analyzed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 2 hours ago, AllWeatherFan said: If by 'fan entitlement' you mean fans who care enough to follow, support, watch a team for decades, and want to express their opinions (right or wrong) then yes, I guess I'm entitled. But I think engagement like this is the best thing for this team right now. We can disagree on the details, that's fine. But no need to bash people who enjoy this team and will continue to support it whatever direction it goes. They don't owe you a single thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFerguson Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 38 minutes ago, stawns said: They don't owe you a single thing. I never said they owe me anything. I said, fans can have differing opinions and expressing them is a good thing. That's all. Do you not agree with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirotashi Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 1. Show me one team that fully came out and said, "hey we are rebuilding this is going to suck and its going to be awhile." It just doesn't happen the way we think its supposed to. 2. Didn't Goldobin have a flu and drop like 15pounds in 2 days? Yeah he may need bit to get back to game speed. I find it funny for a player that's been here for a mere few weeks that any commentary at all can be made on his handling. Its such a small sample size and then you factor in the flu. 3. Theres a game being played here, only if your astute enough can you spot the game that's being played, but rest assured there is a game within the game. It has to do with all 3 things you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFerguson Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 19 minutes ago, Shirotashi said: 1. Show me one team that fully came out and said, "hey we are rebuilding this is going to suck and its going to be awhile." It just doesn't happen the way we think its supposed to. 2. Didn't Goldobin have a flu and drop like 15pounds in 2 days? Yeah he may need bit to get back to game speed. I find it funny for a player that's been here for a mere few weeks that any commentary at all can be made on his handling. Its such a small sample size and then you factor in the flu. 3. Theres a game being played here, only if your astute enough can you spot the game that's being played, but rest assured there is a game within the game. It has to do with all 3 things you mentioned. Thanks for the response. 1. Brendan Shanahan did in March 2015. 2. You're right, lots of factors play into the Goldobin situation. I still would like WD to handle things a bit differently. But that doesn't make me right. 3. I agree - there's absolutely a game within a game. I'm trying to enjoy it more. Which is part of the reason I'm engaging more with CDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 6 hours ago, Alflives said: Excellent article. Does the negativity start with JB or is it Willie D? It starts with the sports media in this town. Negativity apparently sells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirotashi Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, AllWeatherFan said: Thanks for the response. 1. Brendan Shanahan did in March 2015. 2. You're right, lots of factors play into the Goldobin situation. I still would like WD to handle things a bit differently. But that doesn't make me right. 3. I agree - there's absolutely a game within a game. I'm trying to enjoy it more. Which is part of the reason I'm engaging more with CDC. Technically speaking JB did say we were transitioning in new players, the whole time. Just because we don't think that means rebuild or he even actually meant rebuild, doesn't matter. The facts are we are rebuilding, theres almost nothing left from the 2011 team, what more proof do we need that we are rebuilding for people? I agree though that management has been misdirected somehow in their approach. Overall I must say I agree with the main thrust of your OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_impersonator13 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 The majority of the negativity surrounding the team is directly created by the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuckYa Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 44 minutes ago, MJDDawg said: It starts with the sports media in this town. Negativity apparently sells. Unfortunately true. Where's the positivity when Goldobin gets the Sedins again tonight & scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuckYa Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Have to admit though, going into the draft lotto at 29th is going to be a lot more exciting than 28th this year even though it's only 1-2% better chance. Maybe just maybe Canucks could get #1 or #2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katobaron Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 7 hours ago, riffraff said: The first I've heard of sutters comments. idiotic comment to be public with. Personally I find sutter to be streaky, inconsistent, not physical enough and imo, over contracted. Before ripping into Sutter I'd advise reading the full quote as opposed to the balls line that was cherrypicked out of it. All Sutter was referring to was that you have to be tenacious on the puck and force the issue, not wait for the play to come to you and that once Goldobin has the puck he makes great decisions with it, just a matter of gaining possession in the first place. This city's sports coverage is nothing but clickbait and sensationalism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny in Vancouver Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 4 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: Not so much hypocrisy than irony. They call out a "negative culture" yet they along with a large segment of the local media and parroting fanbase are nothing BUT negative, and consistently. When I read that second sentence ("they refuse to embrace a rebuild", which itself is fallacious) it was clearly nothing more than the usual banal drivel, based upon regurgitated claims and simplistic one-dimensional thinking. As for responding to it, I see @oldnewsis already having a chuckle at the load of the usual nonsense. Yes, overly-negative and largely fabricated and now speculated nonsense based on little evidence. Seriously -- what insight is there to think there might be some negativity surrounding a 29th-place team, but then to project that upon the entire organization in general, using nothing but a couple of comments as a basis? Such a surface-level perspective, this is not even analytical but basically yellow journalism. There are different perspectives of what a proper rebuild is, and some of the articles I've read clearly espouse something that the Canucks didn't do early enough: trading non-long-term assets at the expense of barely making (or missing) the playoffs. So from that perspective, I can see why people would say that the Canucks are refusing to embrace a rebuild. Now one can argue that that concept of a rebuild is too narrow, but that's pretty much it. As for the rest of the article, the author did use the word 'speculation' and more than hinted a few times that it's his point of view. Also, what did you think was being projecting upon the entire organization, though - the way I read it was that the author was saying that the Canucks' culture of hard work, defensive responsibility, and fear of losing may be detrimental to the development of young guys which the author thinks requires risk-taking and a more forgiving environment. It's his point of view, but it's not completely unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanfor42 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Canucks suck right now. They've sucked many times in the last 45 years. But nobody used to write crap like toxic negativity. FFS they're rebuilding and not very good right now But they will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 6 hours ago, AllWeatherFan said: Again, I'm not advocating for a no consequence approach to Goldobin or saying that he should get a free ride. I just think when we look at where we are as a team in our lifecycle and in our season, kids like Goldobin should be given more rope not less. He gets more in Van than in SJ because they have a way deeper than us. But being benched, scratched, and moved around like crazy on a team like Vancouver says a whole lot that I don't think we should be saying at the moment. Well that would be more on WD than Sutter, no? Goldobin was probably our best player tonight and that line was our best line. The Sedins looked rejuvinated. Baer-Bo-Brock Goldy-Hank-Daniel Eriksson-Sutter-Granlund Gaunce-Chaput-Dorsett Labate Not bad. Not bad at all... Who knows, maybe sign a UFA forward? Maybe our 1st round pick this year even slides into our lineup? But I like our forward group moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spur1 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said: Well that would be more on WD than Sutter, no? Goldobin was probably our best player tonight and that line was our best line. The Sedins looked rejuvinated. Baer-Bo-Brock Goldy-Hank-Daniel Eriksson-Sutter-Granlund Gaunce-Chaput-Dorsett Labate Not bad. Not bad at all... Who knows, maybe sign a UFA forward? Maybe our 1st round pick this year even slides into our lineup? But I like our forward group moving forward. Fourth line Gaunce Chaput Megns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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