Would A Statement Like The Rangers Make A Difference?

[Warhippy]

16 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

4 years, what has been accomplished? Lots of possible NHL players not in the NHL? Younger, nope. More goals, nope. Fewer scored against, nope. First round picks playing meaningful roles in the NHL or AHL, one out of 5,

1.  Dropped average age of roster by 5.7 years

2.  At seasons end will have shed $30 million in cap space

3.  Have missed playoffs in 2 straight years but garnered arguably one of the best prospect pools in the NHL in that time

4.  Currently have no less than 4 tradeable contracts this year and an additional 3-4 next year as well based on age, cap and term of player

 

Your post screams I want it now, now now now now now.  Well sorry bud, we're not working on right now.  We're working for the next 15 years.  If you're too impatient that's on you.  But don't complain about management building a proper foundation for the first time in club history while wanting it right now.

[Rob_Zepp]

59 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Well another rich team has basically stated that they are blowing it up.

This is from a team in the hunt, only a few points out of a playoffs spot.

This is a team that has stated they are trading away veteran players that are and may be still in their prime and wanted.

Here is the letter;

 

“As you know, since the 2005-06 season, we have been a highly competitive team. We have played 129 playoff games, won the Presidents’ Trophy, reached the Conference Finals three times, as well as the Stanley Cup Final. While we’re proud of all those accomplishments — we didn’t reach our ultimate foal of bringing the Stanley Cup back to New York.

“So as we do every season, we have been continuously evaluating our team, looking for areas that can be improved to enhance our chances of winning. We began the process of reshaping our team this past sumer, when we traded for assets that we believe will help us in the years to come. As we approach the trade deadline later this month and into the summer, we will be focused on adding young, competitive players that combine speed, skill and character. This may mean we lose some familiar faces, guys we all care about and respect. While this is part of the game, it’s never easy. Our promise to you is that our plans will be guided by our singular commitment: ensuring we are building the foundation for our next Stanley Cup contender.”

 

Instead this market gets statements like "It would be unfair to the Sedins to do a rebuild" or "we knew we needed to do a rebuild when we were hired" or out and out lies like, getting the team younger while the team got older and older for 3 years until the 4th year and the only reason the team looks younger now is the number and age of players not playing. Guance and Gagner are out, the team just got older than 4 years ago, Bouchard comes in and now they are close again.

 

Now after all the mixed messages from Benning and Linden a letter like this would be or could hardly be credible.

 

Toronto a few years ago stated something like this, fans accepted and TO is still doing their rebuild, Edmonton, just prior to the purge there and they are still doing theirs as well.

 

What a letter like this is called, is leadership, what this is, is management doing a management job of at least saying their goal is to win a cup, not be just competitive.

This is a winning team, with a winning environment with management that realizes they aren't good enough and knows how to do the job. Experienced management people.

 

I am curious how many threads the handful of you can make, albeit in an admittedly vast array of premise-based constructs, that are essentially the same at the core "FIRE BENNING" and/or "FIRE LINDEN".   Are literally a dozen or more of the exact same thing needed to make that point we all know you hold?   Go back over these pages and thread after thread has t he same basis theme that "MANAGEMENT MUST GO" or "MANAGEMENT IS NOT CREDIBLE".     

 

We get it.   Just sayin' that not sure what it accomplishes by having it said over, and over, and over, and.....   

[TheGuardian_]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

1.  Dropped average age of roster by 5.7 years

2.  At seasons end will have shed $30 million in cap space

3.  Have missed playoffs in 2 straight years but garnered arguably one of the best prospect pools in the NHL in that time

4.  Currently have no less than 4 tradeable contracts this year and an additional 3-4 next year as well based on age, cap and term of player

 

Your post screams I want it now, now now now now now.  Well sorry bud, we're not working on right now.  We're working for the next 15 years.  If you're too impatient that's on you.  But don't complain about management building a proper foundation for the first time in club history while wanting it right now.

Wow, are you off, avg age - 2014 = 27.6, 2017 - 27.1

Cap, 27 mil and having to sign 11 more players to reach 23

Missed playoff 3 years and only won 3 playoff games in 8 years.

Having tradeable contracts doesn't mean good trades, trades for impact players, or a trade at all.

 

I have been posting for 7 years that this team needed a rebuild, I advocated for it when the Sedins were more effective than now and still pertinent. I also posted that it would take 10 years if something wasn't done or was delayed.

 

A proper foundation, were you around for the Gillis years, all 8 of them? Only missed the playoffs once. This group was lucky that so many teams wanted a shot at McDavid or Eichel.  

[The Lock]

Thinking about things a bit, I just don't get what threads like these are trying to accomplish?

 

Is it to get people to think? Surely, if you want people to think then coming up with actual facts rather than pure rants would be better would it not?

Is it to purely rant? I get it that some people hate everything but why force such a disposition on others without logic?

Is it to troll? While I don't really think TG is "trolling" per se (and if TG is then that brings wasting one's life away to a whole new level given how much typing is contributed), there can certainly be something annoying to others about sharing an opinion on a forum and not willing to even consider another's stance.

 

It's one thing to dislike management. I get that and everyone is entitled to their opinion (like I've said in a previous post, I like discussions where both side bring logic and facts to the table). Yet, it's another thing to state that opinion and just be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative which is basically what these threads are.

[Rick Blight]

34 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Well another rich team has basically stated that they are blowing it up.

This is from a team in the hunt, only a few points out of a playoffs spot.

This is a team that has stated they are trading away veteran players that are and may be still in their prime and wanted.

Here is the letter;

 

“As you know, since the 2005-06 season, we have been a highly competitive team. We have played 129 playoff games, won the Presidents’ Trophy, reached the Conference Finals three times, as well as the Stanley Cup Final. While we’re proud of all those accomplishments — we didn’t reach our ultimate foal of bringing the Stanley Cup back to New York.

“So as we do every season, we have been continuously evaluating our team, looking for areas that can be improved to enhance our chances of winning. We began the process of reshaping our team this past sumer, when we traded for assets that we believe will help us in the years to come. As we approach the trade deadline later this month and into the summer, we will be focused on adding young, competitive players that combine speed, skill and character. This may mean we lose some familiar faces, guys we all care about and respect. While this is part of the game, it’s never easy. Our promise to you is that our plans will be guided by our singular commitment: ensuring we are building the foundation for our next Stanley Cup contender.”

 

Instead this market gets statements like "It would be unfair to the Sedins to do a rebuild" or "we knew we needed to do a rebuild when we were hired" or out and out lies like, getting the team younger while the team got older and older for 3 years until the 4th year and the only reason the team looks younger now is the number and age of players not playing. Guance and Gagner are out, the team just got older than 4 years ago, Bouchard comes in and now they are close again.

 

Now after all the mixed messages from Benning and Linden a letter like this would be or could hardly be credible.

 

Toronto a few years ago stated something like this, fans accepted and TO is still doing their rebuild, Edmonton, just prior to the purge there and they are still doing theirs as well.

 

What a letter like this is called, is leadership, what this is, is management doing a management job of at least saying their goal is to win a cup, not be just competitive.

This is a winning team, with a winning environment with management that realizes they aren't good enough and knows how to do the job. Experienced management people.

 

Speaking of out and out lies............the Canucks average age for the 2014/15 season was 29.4 vs a league average of 28.2 The Canucks average age for the 2015/16 season was 28.9 vs a league average of 28.0. The Canucks average age for the 2016/17 season was 28.8 vs a league average of 28.0. The Canucks average age for the 2017/18 season is 27.9 with a league average of 27.7. The Canucks have been getting younger and not older as you claim.

 

Katz' letter to the fans was done mid-season (January 2014) wherein he claimed they were ONLY in year 4 of their re-build. So, here we are 4 years after that letter and they are still in their re-build and you want to hold them up as a shiny example?

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/VAN/2018.html

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/letter-from-daryl-katz-to-oilers-fans/c-701436

 

[TheGuardian_]

9 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I am curious how many threads the handful of you can make, albeit in an admittedly vast array of premise-based constructs, that are essentially the same at the core "FIRE BENNING" and/or "FIRE LINDEN".   Are literally a dozen or more of the exact same thing needed to make that point we all know you hold?   Go back over these pages and thread after thread has t he same basis theme that "MANAGEMENT MUST GO" or "MANAGEMENT IS NOT CREDIBLE".     

 

We get it.   Just sayin' that not sure what it accomplishes by having it said over, and over, and over, and.....   

I can't make threads like that, the mods deleted or moved them to a different forum.

 

Sometimes something has to said many times to equal all the koombaya posts, there are only now, after fours crap years, that other posters are starting to question just what has happened for four years. Also the removal of the bullying button has helped some posters reveal their ideas. I was one poster that said what I thought and would not let the "gang" bully me off the forum. Hence a repetitive message.

 

Sometimes posters come to these conclusions themselves when public opinion starts to sour. If a poster decides that management needs to be removed because of repeated poor results without saying "Fire anyone", then they came to the decision without my doing their thinking for them.

 

I am not making his stuff up, it is all out there. BTW, I am not about firing Benning now, just don't re-sign him, look at my post from that thread.

[HerrDrFunk]

17 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

I can't make threads like that, the mods deleted or moved them to a different forum.

Because there's a conspiracy against you, right?

 

23 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Sometimes something has to said many times to equal all the koombaya posts, there are only now, after fours crap years, that other posters are starting to question just what has happened for four years. Also the removal of the bullying button has helped some posters reveal their ideas. I was one poster that said what I thought and would not let the "gang" bully me off the forum. Hence a repetitive message.

Lol, what? You might have been able to credibly claim this at the beginning of the year but with Boeser's emergence in the NHL, Demko finding his game at the pro level and Pettersson dominating the SHL, most posters can see the direction the team is headed in and understand it's not an overnight transition. 

 

You do know plenty of people rag on the team and manage not to dig themselves into the basement with their rep, right? Disagreeing with your rants and down-voting them isn't bullying by the way. 

29 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

I am not making his stuff up, it is all out there. BTW, I am not about firing Benning now, just don't re-sign him, look at my post from that thread.

So you don't want Benning fired with two months left in the season but you also don't want his contract to be renewed at seasons end? Then that's just a BS, semantics double-speak way of saying you want him fired. 

[TheGuardian_]

5 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

You do know plenty of people rag on the team and manage not to dig themselves into the basement with their rep, right? Disagreeing with your rants and down-voting them isn't bullying by the way. 

So you change your opinion so you can get likes?

 

Bullying on line, do you know what it is? How about getting negs for copy and pasting the same poster's comments? Or the same 12 or 13 always giving out negs for anything and everything including comments about if they do it enough you'll leave and then name other posters forced away? You know real juvenile stuff.

9 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

So you don't want Benning fired with two months left in the season but you also don't want his contract to be renewed at seasons end? Then that's just a BS, semantics double-speak way of saying you want him fired. 

Why bother firing him now and embarrassing him more, he is a lame duck guy now and not likely having anything more than an opinion for the duration. Linden is the power now.

[HerrDrFunk]

2 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

So you change your opinion so you can get likes?

When did I say anything remotely like that? I have a high rep because I generally avoid posting unless I have something worthwhile to add and I express myself in a sarcastic way that people seem to enjoy. 

 

As I said, plenty of people hate on management and didn't get voted into the basement. It's not your feelings but the generally poor job you do of expressing them and lack of logic that goes into your screeds. 

 

6 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Bullying on line, do you know what it is?

Yes. Toughen up, buttercup. If people finding your posts distasteful and ill conceived, to the point that they would downvote them, is the worst thing that ever happens to you online, you've lead a charmed existence. 

 

8 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

[aGENT]

23 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Because there's a conspiracy against you, right?

 

Lol, what? You might have been able to credibly claim this at the beginning of the year but with Boeser's emergence in the NHL, Demko finding his game at the pro level and Pettersson dominating the SHL, most posters can see the direction the team is headed in and understand it's not an overnight transition. 

 

You do know plenty of people rag on the team and manage not to dig themselves into the basement with their rep, right? Disagreeing with your rants and down-voting them isn't bullying by the way. 

So you don't want Benning fired with two months left in the season but you also don't want his contract to be renewed at seasons end? Then that's just a BS, semantics double-speak way of saying you want him fired. 

[aGENT]

30 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Because there's a conspiracy against you, right?

One can hardly keep up with the moving goal posts to suit a narrative, the cognitive dissonance, the red herrings on all manner of off tangent counter arguments etc but people neg'd him because they're bullies....uhuh...

[Nucker 67]

Guardian, this seems to really bother you, how TL and JB have handled things over the last 4 years. What would you suggest they have done differently? (aside from trading the Sedins and Edler, because it's up to them to be traded). Also, can't go back and draft different players, because hindsite is always 20/20. Let's assume regardless of who the GM was over the last 4 years, they drafted the same players we have today. 

 

4 years ago there was no prospect pool. The Canucks had Horvat, Hutton, Subban and Cassels in their pool.

 

 

 

 

[HerrDrFunk]

1 minute ago, NUCKER67 said:

Guardian, this seems to really bother you, how TL and JB have handled things over the last 4 years. What would you suggest they have done differently? (aside from trading the Sedins and Edler, because it's up to them to be traded). Also, can't go back and draft different players, because hindsite is always 20/20. Let's assume regardless of who the GM was over the last 4 years, they drafted the same players we have today. 

 

4 years ago there was no prospect pool. The Canucks had Horvat, Hutton, Subban and Cassels in their pool.

 

 

 

 

Don't forget Gaunce, Jensen and Schroeder!  (I'm not hating on anyone but you can't argue that isn't a piss poor prospect pool).

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Wow, are you off, avg age - 2014 = 27.6, 2017 - 27.1

Cap, 27 mil and having to sign 11 more players to reach 23

Missed playoff 3 years and only won 3 playoff games in 8 years.

Having tradeable contracts doesn't mean good trades, trades for impact players, or a trade at all.

 

I have been posting for 7 years that this team needed a rebuild, I advocated for it when the Sedins were more effective than now and still pertinent. I also posted that it would take 10 years if something wasn't done or was delayed.

 

A proper foundation, were you around for the Gillis years, all 8 of them? Only missed the playoffs once. This group was lucky that so many teams wanted a shot at McDavid or Eichel.  

1.  Prior to 2014 the average age of the roster was over 27 years. now it is younger.  It fluctuates on a player to player position by position basis

 

2.  https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/canucks prior to Boesers bonuses we had just under $30 million as of July 1st.  If you're REALLY going to argue a few hundred k go ahead.  But, of those 11 players 6 on the roster are RFA's, 2 of those players are the twins.  That is 8 players able to be re-signed for a very small amount of money

 

3.  Missed playoffs 2016 and 2017 having made them as the 7th best team in the league in 2015 losing 4 games to 2 to the Calgary Flames.  You can argue we will miss this year making it 3 years, but if you're going to whinge about a million here or there I will argue that it's 2 years not 3

 

Having tradeable contracts is EVERYTHING to a team that is rebuilding 

 

Again, you want what you want now.  We get it, you're part of the fast food instant gratification crowd.  But that hasn't worked in almost 50 years.  For the first time in almost 50 years we're doing an actual foundation up rebuild.  Arguably had we won any one of those 1st overall picks in 2014, 2016 or 2017 you'd probably still have a complaint here or there; but we didn't and might be better off for it.

 

If you cannot be patient at least try not to Complain to much.  Some of us are actually enjoying the direction this team is going.  (Oh and 7 years ago, the Canucks were the best team in the league holding one of the best records over a year statistically to ever be played in the NHL; so if you were advocating a rebuild then or in the following year where they were 1st overall again in the league you were utterly and completely out to lunch)

 

Edit** I should add, when I speak of the average age of the team I speak of the core, the top 6 forwards and the top 4 D.  The Keslers/Sedins and Hamhuis' and Bieksa's  I don't speak of the Bartkowski's or the Dorsetts etc.  The non interchangeable pieces

[48MPHSlapShot]

No.

 

Anybody with half a brain can already see we're in a rebuild. Pretending to think otherwise would be moronic.

[Warhippy]

30 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

So you change your opinion so you can get likes?

 

Bullying on line, do you know what it is? How about getting negs for copy and pasting the same poster's comments? Or the same 12 or 13 always giving out negs for anything and everything including comments about if they do it enough you'll leave and then name other posters forced away? You know real juvenile stuff.

Why bother firing him now and embarrassing him more, he is a lame duck guy now and not likely having anything more than an opinion for the duration. Linden is the power now.

Is that like constantly telling someone they've done a horrible job of management online but none of the facts seem to back it up?

[HerrDrFunk]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

If you cannot be patient at least try not to Complain to much.  Some of us are actually enjoying the direction this team is going.  (Oh and 7 years ago, the Canucks were the best team in the league holding one of the best records over a year statistically to ever be played in the NHL; so if you were advocating a rebuild then or in the following year where they were 1st overall again in the league you were utterly and completely out to lunch)

Thank you. I noticed that timeline was totally out of whack as well. 

[DeNiro]

I find it funny how so many fans and people in the media need to hear the word rebuild. As if that will change things somehow.

 

I'm pretty sure Benning and Linden have constantly been saying over the last three years that they need to get younger, faster, and more skilled. They've done a great job addressing that through the draft so far, but it's not going to happen over night. in the meantime they've been trying to keep the team somewhat respectable so that we don't fall into a situation like the Oilers where we're leaning on 19 year olds to lead the team.

 

Talk is cheap, action is all that matters.

[DeNiro]

10 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

No.

 

Anybody with half a brain can already see we're in a rebuild. Pretending to think otherwise would be moronic.

The media in this market is to blame. They know that it's easy to stir the pot with so many fairweather fans who don't pay attention to what's actually going on.

 

Pretty sure we have a rookie in the Calder race and a prospect who was just ranked number 1 in the world by TSN. Yet some fans will still complain we're not rebuilding properly. It's laughable.

 

If we're not drafting Matthews or Hischier somehow our rebuild sucks. And yet Toronto is doing a masterful rebuild because they won a draft lottery? Lol.

[Warhippy]

10 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Thank you. I noticed that timeline was totally out of whack as well. 

7 years ago when the Canucks had a 12 point cushion on the rest of the league, I was screaming rebuild.  Statistically one of the best teams to ever play the game but I knew...I KNEW!!!!!