[Trade] Canucks trade Thomas Vanek to Blue Jackets for Jussi Jokinen, Tyler Motte

[burrardstreetbullies]

jussi and motte were huge additions.   mostly motte he has huge PK potential that i havent seen since that guy in 2009 who would just throw himself in front of the puck... cant remember his name right now

[rekker]

22 minutes ago, burrardstreetbullies said:

jussi and motte were huge additions.   mostly motte he has huge PK potential that i havent seen since that guy in 2009 who would just throw himself in front of the puck... cant remember his name right now

Ryan Johnson. Guy was fearless. Good comparison actually. 

[CaptainLinden16]

10 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Wow, you can see into the future with such clarity!    What else do you see?   I assume you must be independently wealthy as you can know the outcome of games, market trends and even world crises.   How does the final season of GoT go?    

 

 

 

 

I am very confused by your response.  What does my wealth or fortune telling ability have to do with anything?  I am simply looking at the hear and now.  The team is ranked 26th in offense with a top 10 powerplay.  The Sedin's are gone, so both should be worse.  Now they may not be.  I guess you can say anything is possible.  There is no dominant offensive players on this team outside of Boeser.  If the team gets Dahlin and Petterson lights it up then I think everyone will be thrilled.  But I am not talking about potential or the future, I am just talking about whats in the here and now.  I am surprised that you took such offense at that.  Sorry I guess?

[Rob_Zepp]

15 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

I am very confused by your response.  What does my wealth or fortune telling ability have to do with anything?  I am simply looking at the hear and now.  The team is ranked 26th in offense with a top 10 powerplay.  The Sedin's are gone, so both should be worse.  Now they may not be.  I guess you can say anything is possible.  There is no dominant offensive players on this team outside of Boeser.  If the team gets Dahlin and Petterson lights it up then I think everyone will be thrilled.  But I am not talking about potential or the future, I am just talking about whats in the here and now.  I am surprised that you took such offense at that.  Sorry I guess?

You stated that the Canucks WILL struggle to score 5 on 5.   I was impressed that you could see into the future.   You didn't say "may" and were pretty emphatic about it.   I was very impressed.   

 

You don't need "dominant" offensive players.   How well did that work out of for Edmonton.    

 

My take offense?   Quite the opposite - was in awe of your ability to see the future so clearly.    

[CaptainLinden16]

4 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

You stated that the Canucks WILL struggle to score 5 on 5.   I was impressed that you could see into the future.   You didn't say "may" and were pretty emphatic about it.   I was very impressed.   

 

You don't need "dominant" offensive players.   How well did that work out of for Edmonton.    

 

My take offense?   Quite the opposite - was in awe of your ability to see the future so clearly.    

The Canuck currently DO struggle to score 5 on 5 and have for some years, so again I am confused by the response.  This is all whats going on now and has been for some time.  I dont know what to say man.  I dont know why this warranted fortune telling status.  As if the team was top 15 5 on 5, and I am trying to make some kind of bold counter trend contrarian argument.  The team lacks offense at every position.  I hope you have a good rest of your day.

[Rob_Zepp]

5 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

The Canuck currently DO struggle to score 5 on 5 and have for some years, so again I am confused by the response.  This is all whats going on now and has been for some time.  I dont know what to say man.  I dont know why this warranted fortune telling status.  As if the team was top 15 5 on 5, and I am trying to make some kind of bold counter trend contrarian argument.  The team lacks offense at every position.  I hope you have a good rest of your day.

I am saying you were talking about next season, you made it sound like you KNEW how things would play out and you got called on it as you don't know (no one does).  As the team will likely be a fair bit different than the one that started last season, comparing teams (particularly one you don't know about yet) is a bit premature.   

 

My day has been outstanding so far.

[burrardstreetbullies]

1 hour ago, rekker said:

Ryan Johnson. Guy was fearless. Good comparison actually. 

guy was a stud. just lunging eating pucks getting beatup every shift total bueaty that left it all on the ice. but honestly seeing motte PK style is a breath of fresh air and a total terror to the other teams PP, just think with him having a full summer and training camp the splash he could make next year

[Rob_Zepp]

Just now, burrardstreetbullies said:

guy was a stud. just lunging eating pucks getting beatup every shift total bueaty that left it all on the ice. but honestly seeing motte PK style is a breath of fresh air and a total terror to the other teams PP, just think with him having a full summer and training camp the splash he could make next year

Motte is a very intriguing prospect.   Speed, size, hits and has decent hands.   He is the type of player that will have the likes of Gaunce looking over his shoulder.

[burrardstreetbullies]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Motte is a very intriguing prospect.   Speed, size, hits and has decent hands.   He is the type of player that will have the likes of Gaunce looking over his shoulder.

he sure beats loui's floppy stick style of PK    "if i wave my stick around enough hopefully they get dizzy and throw up"      i really hope he gets hucked in that perry package deal this summer

[rekker]

16 minutes ago, burrardstreetbullies said:

guy was a stud. just lunging eating pucks getting beatup every shift total bueaty that left it all on the ice. but honestly seeing motte PK style is a breath of fresh air and a total terror to the other teams PP, just think with him having a full summer and training camp the splash he could make next year

Ya good points. Motte is a smart player who knows that if he is to stay in the leugue he is going to have to be a defensive specialist. Side note on Johnson. I can't remember the game but I remember him going in on a forecheck at 100 miles an hour and catching an edge. I never seen someone hit the boards so hard. Ya he was a tough player who I believed battled a lot of foot pain from blocking shots while winding down his career.

[The Lock]

13 hours ago, iinatcc said:

The media's potrayal of Vanek really sabatoged his trade value. It almost felt like the media really wanted to make sure Vancouver couldn't get anything out of Vanek. 

I think people focus way too much on trying to blame outsiders (such as the media) on things like trade value. Here's what I really think happened: As other teams got the players they wanted, such as Nash, it meant those teams would then be out of the market for Vanek. If the demand for such players are limited to certain teams (ie. the teams who paid to get the players they wanted), we can't expect other teams to fork over the same cash. Simply put, he was not in demand and not because of the media.

 

People need to learn to look at things at face value in my opinion rather than come up with all this needless complications and conspiracy theories. What your comment implies is that the media shapes the GM's opinion because that's the only way your statement would work. I hope I don't need to explain why the media is not going to shape a GM's perspective of a player and whether or not he wants that player; thus making media sabotage impossible.

[GB5]

2 hours ago, rekker said:

Ryan Johnson. Guy was fearless. Good comparison actually. 

And the Canucks director of player development I believe.

[rekker]

1 minute ago, GarthButcher5 said:

And the Canucks director of player development I believe.

You bet. Between him and Malhotra they could win any face off. Even from the press box! Lol. 

[iinatcc]

9 hours ago, Russ said:

Did it really though?  If a team that had playoffs aspirations thought Vanek could help them wouldn't they have signed him in the offseason?  He wasn't signed until late August and at only 2 mill, most playoff teams could afford that but obviously all of them decided he wasn't worth the gamble and they had better players on the team already.  You can say he played great but at the end of the day there were stretches of the season where I forgot he was even on the roster when watching the games where he would be MIA for a week and then pop back out and pot 5 points in 3 games.  I think most teams are afraid of that hit and miss and consistency and if he missed in the playoffs then he really would be a liability. 

I was half serious about my conspiracy theories but I still think the label on Vanek was unfair. The guy has a good playoff record even if he dissapears or is invisible for a game or two he still racks up the points, which I recall is still the primary way of winning a game. 

[CaptainLinden16]

1 hour ago, The 5th Line said:

Don't worry about it, Robb gets triggered quite easily.

 

He doesn't  undestand that this is a hockey forum and we are able to talk about the here and now and the likelihood of things happening. He thinks we don't understand that anything can happen in the future and we should all just sit around being patient, rendering this forum useless..  if your comment was the canucks will score lots of goals 5 on 5 he would of agreed with you.  No patience needed when being overly optomistic, all realism will be shunned.

 

It's either motte or Gaunce for that 4th line lw role, they both haven't proven they can score, gaunce is bigger but slower motte is small and speedy.  Pick your posion 

 

I find it odd that there is such an us vs. them dynamic in most of the conversations.  I mean why do I have to fit into a mold of either someone who is perpetually optimistic about the team or part of the doom and gloom complex.  I mean why can’t I think that Travis Green is an NHL head coach with a long career ahead of him and hate his style of hockey at the same time?  Why can't I like the job Jim is doing improving the team and still be confused by the lack of identity (I think he is just stockpiling solid players through trades without considering how he wants the team build overall)?  Why can’t appreciate Brandon Sutter and our wealth of solid 200ft players without thinking we have too many?  I mean the team is ranked 26^th in offense and just lost 100pts to retirement.  Why is it not normal to be concerned that offensively this team is heading in the wrong direction on every front?

I mean where is the critical thinking?  Why is there no nuance?  Is it all just black and white?  I have no doubt that I hold many wrong opinions, but the arrogance with which the counter argument is presented defeats the point of having a forum in the first point.  We can just register a poll every day and people can vote up or down on one-liners as that is equivalence of the conversation.  The last thing I am trying to do is pick internet fights.

[oldnews]

On 4/15/2018 at 12:11 PM, CaptainLinden16 said:

Why is it not normal to be concerned that offensively this team is heading in the wrong direction on every front?

I mean where is the critical thinking?  Why is there no nuance?  Is it all just black and white?  I have no doubt that I hold many wrong opinions, but the arrogance with which the counter argument is presented defeats the point of having a forum in the first point.  We can just register a poll every day and people can vote up or down on one-liners as that is equivalence of the conversation.  The last thing I am trying to do is pick internet fights.

 

On 4/9/2018 at 7:54 AM, CaptainLinden16 said:

Of course on a bad team you lack everything, but I think its glaringly obvious that this team is absolutely bereft of geniunine offensive talent.  I would love a 40 goal "floater" or an 80 point "defensive liability".  This team can't score 5 on 5 and now with the Sedin's gone I doubt they will be able to score consistently on the powerplay either.

If someone didn't perceive the nuance in your posts, perhaps it's because you're stating absolutes - like "on every front" - or "absolutely bereft of genuine offensive talent."

 

Even the most committed pessimist or doom-and0gloomer might question that. 

 

I mean the team just had a rookie light it up like this franchise hasn't seen since the Bure/Linden era.    A rookie who scored 29 in 62 or a 38per82 pace.....but a team that is "absolutely bereft of offensive talent."

Wrong direction on every front - and bereft of talent - but a 19 yr old that just lit up the SweHL with a historic rookie season winning the scoring title in the process?

The NCAA's leading scorer and Hobey Baker winner - on a team absolutely bereft.....

Horvat's a 20/50 player.  A number of other 20 goal scorers on the roster - perhaps things are not quite as you state.

 

Not much 'nuance' in absolutes like that.

[CaptainLinden16]

8 hours ago, oldnews said:

 

If someone didn't perceive the nuance in your posts, perhaps it's because you're stating absolutes - like "on every front" - or "absolutely bereft of genuine offensive talent."

 

Even the most committed pessimist or doom-and0gloomer might question that. 

 

I mean the team just had a rookie light it up like this franchise hasn't seen since the Bure/Linden era.    A rookie who scored 29 in 62 or a 38per82 pace.....but a team that is "absolutely bereft of offensive talent."

Wrong direction on every front - and bereft of talent - but a 19 yr old that just lit up the SweHL with a historic rookie season winning the scoring title in the process?

The NCAA's leading scorer and Hobey Baker winner - on a team absolutely bereft.....

Horvat's a 20/50 player.  A number of other 20 goal scorers on the roster - perhaps things are not quite as you state.

 

Not much 'nuance' in absolutes like that.

I wonder if this is the way conversations go for you in real life?  You have one mode hammer.  I mean I appreciate some of content you post, but the vast majority of the stuff you post in response to someone is hyper aggressive.  Constantly flaming any one you disagree with. 

 

You completely missed the point.  I don’t know where stats are kept by position, but I would say its safe to say that the Canucks were lowest scoring defense in the league or close to it.  The Canucks were also 26th out of 31 in total offense.  Taken in that context on " on every front" and "absolutely bereft" are simply statements of fact.

 

You are also bringing out the prospect pipeline like some huge I gotchya.  You didnt think about this!  hahahahah I feel like you do more responding than actual reading of posts.  You are looking for a reason to start smashing keyboard keys.  I fully recognize that the prospect pipeline is the best it has ever been.  I even stated that Boeser is a dominant offensive player (2 post back) and that we would all be thrilled if the prospects panned out which doesn’t need to be stated as they are both obvious.  You reiterating these as some kind of unique insight is completely uninteresting.  I have perpetually praised Jim for improving the team before it was cool hahahaha.  I am excited about the prospects, and I expect some of them to make an impact.

 

Now for some context since you completely missed it.  "Oldnews angry Keyboard SMASH!"

 

The conversations is about my feeling that the team is loaded with 200ft defensive forwards.  The team needs more offense.  The team needs a playmaking centreman or two.  The team needs two offensive defensemen.  The team needs a big forward who can score in and around the net.  The Canucks have a lot of medium sized players who are quick and responsible in their own zone eriksson, sutter, motte, gaunce, granlund, archibald, dowd.  Horvat is also good defensive forward.  Virtanen is getting there and going to be a good defensive forward.  Yes defensive forwards can score and generate offense and offensive forwards can at times play defense, but that doesn’t mean its odd to think that a team 26th in scoring lacks scoring talent.

 

Maybe the Canucks are good at coaching and developing or acquiring 200ft forwards.  Maybe it would make sense to start thinking about what the team lacks instead of just improving depth.  I know Best Player Available is all the rage nowadays, but maybe you start thinking about what's missing? 

 

Either way, I don’t care to have this conversation with you. I am going to borrow one of your favorite asinine responses "Yawn"

[Rob_Zepp]

On 4/15/2018 at 10:55 AM, The 5th Line said:

Don't worry about it, Robb gets triggered quite easily.

 

He doesn't  undestand that this is a hockey forum and we are able to talk about the here and now and the likelihood of things happening. He thinks we don't understand that anything can happen in the future and we should all just sit around being patient, rendering this forum useless..  if your comment was the canucks will score lots of goals 5 on 5 he would of agreed with you.  No patience needed when being overly optomistic, all realism will be shunned.

 

It's either motte or Gaunce for that 4th line lw role, they both haven't proven they can score, gaunce is bigger but slower motte is small and speedy.  Pick your posion 

 

   Realism.      You really should try stand up!    

[Rob_Zepp]

2 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

Horvat is also good defensive forward.

Horvat has done a lot of things in his young career that look good but consistent defense is not one of them.   He is far more of an "offense first" player.   He needs a lot of work on his defensive game to get remotely close to "good defensive" forward.   He is decent on draws but is constantly in offense mode and it shows on some missed coverages leading to his rather poor defensive stats.   He is a creative offensive talent who, like the team, continues to grow into his role.   Give him 82 games with two good wingers (say Boeser and Baer for 82 games) and his offensive stats will show up just fine.

[CaptainLinden16]

1 minute ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Horvat has done a lot of things in his young career that look good but consistent defense is not one of them.   He is far more of an "offense first" player.   He needs a lot of work on his defensive game to get remotely close to "good defensive" forward.   He is decent on draws but is constantly in offense mode and it shows on some missed coverages leading to his rather poor defensive stats.   He is a creative offensive talent who, like the team, continues to grow into his role.   Give him 82 games with two good wingers (say Boeser and Baer for 82 games) and his offensive stats will show up just fine.

I dont think there is anything particularly missing from Bo's game.  He is a very solid player.  I do think he was worse this year than last, but he is young so who cares.  He will keep improving.  I do not think he is ever going to be a top 30 scoring talent in the NHL.  Again, I would be more than happy to be wrong.  He is a guy who is going to be 8/10 at everything versus being a 10/10 in any particular category.  Offense is needed...Hopefully Petterson, Gaudette, Dahlin (or other pick), Lind and Dahlen will provide that.  Prospects dont pan out 100% of the time, so even though things look good right now.  It's still on paper.  More is needed....