Ed Willes: Canucks' Linden revamp left in the dust by Leafs' Shana-plan

[OneSeventeen]

6 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

Must be great to have the NHL gift wrap a number 1 pick when there's a generational talent available. There's no genius involved in that. Remove Auston Matthews from that team and Marner's and Nylander's numbers drop and Marleau and Tavares do not come to Toronto. The Canucks, on the other hand, have to earn what they're given them as, but hey, even without winning the lottery, still managed to draft the NHL All Star MVP and the SHL Regular Season and Playoff MVP after a record-setting season.

Plus a Hobey Baker and an OHL goalie of the year winner. Plus the recent MVP in the Allsvenskan. 

 

This was such an unfair and poorly researched article. 

[Undrafted]

3 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

One of the joys of expressing any opinion related to the Vancouver Canucks in a public forum is half your audience believes you’re a craven apologist for the organization and the other half believes you’re a know-nothing troll exercising a personal agenda against their team.

There are even those rare and wonderful moments when you are both within the space of two paragraphs. This is the sportswriter’s harmonic convergence.

But, against all odds, one of this space’s many admirers raised an interesting point during a recent back-and-forth, and given the events of last weekend, it’s also timely.

Trevor Linden was hired as the Vancouver Canucks’ president on April 9, 2014. Brendan Shanahan was hired as the Toronto Maple Leafs’ president two days later.

As you may be aware, the Canucks and Leafs have taken divergent paths since both men took over their respective franchises. The Leafs are coming off a 105-point season, have just signed John Tavares and appear to be positioned for a long run as an elite NHL team.

The Canucks are coming off 26th-, 28th- and 29th-place finishes and while they’ve assembled some good young pieces, they appear to be two seasons away from competing for a playoff spot … and that’s being generous.

So where did the Leafs go right and where did the Canucks go wrong? How have the Leafs reinvigorated their franchise while the Canucks failed in their stated goal of remaining competitive while rebuilding their core? Obviously, the answers to those questions would fill a book, but we’ve been given 1,000 words to enlighten the masses. With that in mind, here are some thoughts. Excuse us if we paint with broad strokes.

There are a couple of things that stand out about the teams Linden and Shanahan inherited and their early moves. For starters, both the Canucks and Leafs were coming off disappointing seasons: 84 points and 12th in the East for the Leafs in 2013-14; 83 points and 12th in the West for the Canucks. Both teams also featured largely veteran cores. And both teams had experienced head coaches: John Tortorella and Randy Carlyle.

Linden, of course, came in and immediately cleaned house. GM Mike Gillis had been fired the day before Linden took over and Tortorella went soon after. After one season, assistant GMs Lorne Henning and Laurence Gilman were also let go along with director of player development Eric Crawford.

Linden’s new hockey department would include GM Jim Benning and assistant GM John Weisbrod. Willie Desjardins was hired to replace Tortorella. That first summer, the Canucks signed Ryan Miller and Radim Vrbata to fairly significant free-agent deals and traded for Derek Dorsett and Linden Vey. Nick Bonino, Luca Sbisa and a first-rounder were added in a forced trade with Anaheim for Ryan Kesler.

The Canucks would rip off 101 points that season and make the playoffs, largely because Daniel and Henrik Sedin finished in the top-10 in NHL in scoring.

The plan seemed to be working. Then it didn’t.

Shanahan, meanwhile, waited a year to restructure his hockey department. Carlyle was fired during the 2014-15 season and Dave Nonis, the GM Shanahan inherited, was let go after the season. The Leafs then hired Mike Babcock as their head coach and Lou Lamoriello as their GM. Wunderkind Kyle Dubas and Mark Hunter were already in place as assistant GMs.

This was the start of Shanahan’s vision for the Leafs — the much ballyhooed Shana-plan — and it began with the hockey department. Babcock was the best head coach available and signed a groundbreaking eight-year deal. Lamoriello is a Hall-of-Famer in waiting. Dubas is one of the game’s bright young minds. Hunter could have been the GM of his own team.

The new front office was also aware of the plan and executed it with discipline and precision. The bloated contracts of Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf were dealt away. Joffrey Lupul and Stephane Robidas were disappeared.

Resisting the urge to sign other big-name free agents, the Leafs would record 68- and 69-point seasons, respectively, in Shanahan’s first two years. That yielded the fourth and first overall picks, which turned into Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews, and the Leafs were on their way.

Now Matthews was a product of blind luck, but the moves that took place in and around the 2016 draft were not. Kessel didn’t fetch much but he did produce a first-rounder which, along with a second-rounder, turned into Freddie Andersen. The Leafs made their splash in free agency — Patrick Marleau last year, Tavares this year — after their young core had been assembled.

While this was going on, they built a powerhouse with their AHL affiliate, the Toronto Marlies, who featured Leafs-in-waiting Travis Dermott, Carl Grundstrom, Andreas Johnsson, Garrett Sparks and Miro Aaltonen during this spring’s run to the Calder Cup. The Marlies’ head coach, Sheldon Keefe, is also one of the rising stars in his profession.

You have to admit. They’ve ticked a lot of items off their to-do list in the space of four seasons.

Then there’s the Canucks.

The encouraging news is they’re in the process of assembling their young core and better days may be ahead. The more sobering news is, if everything breaks their way, they might be in the place the Leafs were two seasons ago.

As for the larger questions about the direction and administration of the franchise, they remain largely unanswered.

After four years, Linden has put together an organization — head coach Travis Green, assistants Manny Malhotra and Nolan Baumgartner, director of amateur scouting Judd Brackett and Comets GM Ryan Johnson — that should grow with the team. They’ll be entrusted with developing the organization’s good young players into a competitive NHL team.

It’s just unclear how long that will take.

Looking back, it’s now apparent the Canucks erred in a couple of areas. The Sedins’ big season in 2014-15 created the illusion the competitive life of that team could be extended. They didn’t exactly mortgage the future but several of their big moves — signing Loui Eriksson, trading for Erik Gudbranson and Brandon Sutter, other free-agent signings — were made to keep the Canucks relevant in the standings while they rebuilt their nucleus.

It just didn’t work out that way.

On his way out the door, Tortorella warned that the Canucks’ core was stale, and you just wonder where they’d be right now if they took the organization down to the studs four years ago. You also wonder if a more experienced executive would have encouraged that direction.

By the end of Linden’s second season, it was apparent the Canucks’ plan wasn’t working and, although that plan has since been revised, they’re still signing veteran free agents to augment their young core. In all likelihood they’re still looking at another season at or near the bottom of the standings. That will be four seasons in a row if you’re scoring at home.

When he signed his mega-deal, Babcock promised there would be pain coming before the Leafs turned things around. Turned out that pain lasted two seasons. Yes, they got lucky with Matthews, but the young centre is hardly the only difference between the Leafs and the Canucks.

In Vancouver, the pain continues. Relief may be coming, but right now it’s a distant speck on another horizon.

 

 

 

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ed-willes-canucks-linden-revamp-left-in-the-dust-by-leafs-shana-plan?video_autoplay=true#comments

 

A whole bunch of people didn't like that Toronto's rebuild was said to be better than us two years ago.  

Shanahan & Linden were hired two days apart so comparisons were inevitable.

What are CDC's thoughts on the comparisons now?  

That has to be THE weakest attempt at "appeal to authority" I've seen in a long, long time.  Ultra-fail.

[luckylager]

"Extra extra, read all about it-

Reading Ed Willes' articles will give you pink eye"

 

 

The entire piece is just cherry picked bullcrap. Not even remotely "journalism". What a hack job.

 

Willes is a turd nugget

[Crabcakes]

44 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Nothing more needs to be said.  6 years of top 10 picks, 8 if you include the 2nd and 9th being Seguin and Hamilton that went to Boston.  A 1st overall pick in Matthews to boot plus the league allowance of the infamous rebids island.  

 

Vancouver....didn't get any of that and started with nothing in the bank but Horvat.

 

I'd say since our actual rebuild started the season after we drafted Boeser, we're doing pretty damned good and anyone that fails to see the last decade worth of drafting between the Leafs/Canucks as essential to the argument is blind 

I agree with what you say except there is an argument for when the rebuild actually started.

 

I think that Gillis wanted to start a rebuild when he traded Schneider for the pick that landed Horvat and when he bought the team that became the Comets.  However, FA wasn't on board with that.  The draft 2013.

 

It could also be argued that when Linden hired a GM who cut his teeth as a chief scout, he did so to rebuild the Canucks.  This would be season's end 2014.  However, neither of those 2 were allowed to utter the word rebuild.  And then they signed Eriksson, a tell tale sign of a retool.

 

The following year, Burrows and Hansen were moved and Linden said the word.  You know, rebuild.  That is when I think the purists could say that the Canucks were rebuilding.  Spring 2017.

 

Last but not least, the group that says that there could be no rebuild until the Sedin's were gone.  2018.  

 

 

 

 

[Gaudette Celly]

47 minutes ago, luckylager said:

"Extra extra, read all about it-

Reading Ed Willes' articles will give you pink eye"

 

 

The entire piece is just cherry picked bullcrap. Not even remotely "journalism". What a hack job.

 

Willes is a turd nugget

It's unfortunate, as I thought he was closer to the more "neutralish ground" of Kuzma and McIntyre.  The article was so cursory and superficial it could have been spun into anything because it lacked substance and real analysis.

[CanadianRugby]

 

3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I see it was another one of your "media" 

"Media?"  What are you Donald Trump? 

 

4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Troll thread is troll thread.

 

 

3 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Time will tell if players like Marner and Nylander can lead a team deep into the playoffs when the games get much heavier and much more grueling. 

DeNiro, I've seen you make comments how small players won't do well late in the playoffs on multiple occasions.  Does this apply to Pettersson & Hughes as well?  Patrick Kane?  Brad Marchand?  

 

 

3 hours ago, oldnews said:

OP in good form as well - doesn't post the content of the article - creates click-bait for an outside site / the Province....

If you hit this button it shows the story, it's hidden for convenience as it's quite large.  

 

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

Readership rapidly declining for a decade lol.

To be fair, that goes for virtually all print media. 

[smokes]

I love what Linden did for Vancouver and he will always be well respected but Linden is behind Shanahan in almost every step. Shanahan had the better hockey career. He's won more than Linden. He spent time in the NHL head office and continued relationships from there. Linden started from scratch after being away from hockey. Shanahan hired a savy GM with a lot of experience. Linden hired a rookie GM. Shanahan got one of the best hockey coaches in the world. Linden gave us Willie D. So then Shanahan had one rookie president, an expeienced GM and a NHL top coach. Linden's team consisted of a rookie president, GM and an inexperienced head coach. Shanahan was up front about what had to happen with the city pretty much after year one, Linden couldn't come to grips on what to do until about year 3. Give Linden a little time and I think he will grow into it but for now Shanahan will have the upper hand for a long time.

[Baggins]

30 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I agree with what you say except there is an argument for when the rebuild actually started.

 

I think that Gillis wanted to start a rebuild when he traded Schneider for the pick that landed Horvat and when he bought the team that became the Comets.  However, FA wasn't on board with that.  The draft 2013.

 

It could also be argued that when Linden hired a GM who cut his teeth as a chief scout, he did so to rebuild the Canucks.  This would be season's end 2014.  However, neither of those 2 were allowed to utter the word rebuild.  And then they signed Eriksson, a tell tale sign of a retool.

 

The following year, Burrows and Hansen were moved and Linden said the word.  You know, rebuild.  That is when I think the purists could say that the Canucks were rebuilding.  Spring 2017.

 

Last but not least, the group that says that there could be no rebuild until the Sedin's were gone.  2018. 

Gillis didn't buy the Comets, Aquaman did.

 

The rebuild started when Linden/Benning took over. Unless of course you're one of those that mistook "transition to a younger team" to mean shoot for the cup. I don't blame Linden for using the "transition" phrase rather than "rebuild". It's become far too common that "rebuild" equates to intentionally tanking. Which sends season ticket holders running for the hills. We don't exactly have the most loyal fan base here when it comes to actually spending their money. A six year waiting list for seasons tickets vanished and our sellout streak came to to a halt after missing the playoffs and there was no mention of rebuilding (tanking) at the time. That's how loyal the fanbase is here.

 

Now what they said was transition to a younger team (rebuild) while trying to stay competitive. Adding veterans like Vrbata, Milller, Eriksson etc were stay competitve signings. And with a complete lack of prospects those holes had to be filled with somebody. Then there was acquiring unproven youth like Vey, Baertschi, Granlund etc which were rebuilding moves. Nobody trades for unproven talent to put on their roster if they're planning a cup run. So yes, they been rebuilding from the start.

 

It's really just a matter of common sense. Those that refuse to call it rebuilding do so because it wasn't the full blown clean house and tank to the bottom they wanted. But to illistrate just how stupid the arguement is they're mad we didn't trade everybody for picks and mad we brought in ufa's like Miller and Vrbata. With no prospect pool and everybody traded who did they expect to be on the roster if they didn't sign ufa's?

 

As to the Sedins look no further than TO. Since the 2014 draft TO has only 3 drafts picks playing regularly in the NHL after four years. So really what difference did it make letting the Sedins play out there contract? None. It's not like we could draft an entire NHL team in four years. And the Sedins said in several interviews they had no problem playing through a rebuild. Somebody had to be on the team while rebuilding and waiting for picks to develop so why not honor their wish to retire Canucks? It made no difference at all in the big picture.

[spook007]

5 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

What is confusing as your market must pay their salaries and why on earth would they then troll their own fanbase?    Being constructively critical would be fine but stories like the one I read from link above are clearly a sharp stick implying that even though apples and oranges are being compared, somehow something magical should have happened PLUS it implies that the results of next season and beyond are somehow known now.

 

Why does your region put up with these clowns?   

As long as people buys the crap papers they get to spew their venom.... 

Nowhere else do local papers slam their own sports team as much as here... f'ing clowns.

[Hairy Kneel]

I hate how the media fuels this so called rivalry when a Canadian team hasn't won a Cup since cell phones.

[Me_]

Ed Willes rose out of the dust to publish that article, then went back into the dust. 

[Phat Fingers]

TO and Vancouver did not start their ‘rebuilds’ on the same day, month or year.  TO started rebuilding with JF jr, then Burke, then Nonis. They all tried and failed to rebuild the club into a playoff team, except for one outlier. 

 

It’s July and this is just a few trolls trying to pretend that TO’s rebuild started with Shanahan instead of when they lost Sundin for nothing.  

 

Or when they traded to firsts for Kessel that became Seguin and Hamilton.

 

Some where is that time line they also managed trade Tukka Rask for their goalie of the future Andrew Raycroft. 

 

TO was a dumpster fire for a decade.  No direction, no success. Only 1 trip to the playoffs where they lost in the first round.  The deals above are only some of the ridiculous moves they made as an org over that tenure. 

 

They also drafted only slightly better than GMMG did while making moves like those listed above.  

 

As for the Shanaplan, Shanny and Lou did tank for Mathews and did right.  

 

Vancouver almost backed into Mathews thru injuries and Torts. Had they traded Hamhuis, that may have been enough to lose 3 more games and where would we be with Mathews and where would TO be without him?

 

 

I hate commenting on such thread where the OP is resurrected his previous thread as some sort of redemption. 

 

His first thread and premise were based on false equivalency and repeating the same process with the same false metrics will end up with the same results. 

 

Somewhere I read that the definition of insanity was to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. 

 

Well its the CDC, it’s July and CR is attempting to prove that theory in real time. 

 

Buckle up. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tomato Pajamas]

It's pretty easy to rebuild when you land the 1st overall with a franchise center waiting for you. Up until this offseason, take Mathews out and where would Toronto be in terms of progression? They're still solid (might have had to resign Bozak), but nothing too special down the middle.

 

Imagine if we got Dahlin in this draft, we wouldn't have to see this kind of BS. Luck just doesn't run our way so we're going to have to take longer to build from the ground up.

[butters]

8 hours ago, smokes said:

I love what Linden did for Vancouver and he will always be well respected but Linden is behind Shanahan in almost every step. Shanahan had the better hockey career. He's won more than Linden. He spent time in the NHL head office and continued relationships from there. Linden started from scratch after being away from hockey. Shanahan hired a savy GM with a lot of experience. Linden hired a rookie GM. Shanahan got one of the best hockey coaches in the world. Linden gave us Willie D. So then Shanahan had one rookie president, an expeienced GM and a NHL top coach. Linden's team consisted of a rookie president, GM and an inexperienced head coach. Shanahan was up front about what had to happen with the city pretty much after year one, Linden couldn't come to grips on what to do until about year 3. Give Linden a little time and I think he will grow into it but for now Shanahan will have the upper hand for a long time.

You mean year 7 or so

[smokes]

1 hour ago, butters said:

You mean year 7 or so

Shanahan hasn't been management in Toronto for 7 years

[Gaudette Celly]

7 hours ago, spook007 said:

As long as people buys the crap papers they get to spew their venom.... 

Nowhere else do local papers slam their own sports team as much as here... f'ing clowns.

I wonder -- do fans in Toronto criticize their media for being fluffers and fanboys?

[butters]

16 minutes ago, smokes said:

Shanahan hasn't been management in Toronto for 7 years

they were rebuilding before he got there. You can't ignore that history when making comparisons to other teams. 

[SingleThorn]

1 minute ago, butters said:

they were rebuilding before he got there. You can't ignore that history when making comparisons to other teams. 

Well, if we're not ignoring history, we should go back to the end of the Ballard era. TML were royally screwed in his latter years. They've been on a retool/ rebuild for quite a while !

[spook007]

12 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

I wonder -- do fans in Toronto criticize their media for being fluffers and fanboys?

To be honest, I doubt it...I only see whats posted through CDC, and they all seem to say that everywhere else the grass is greener...

Probably not...

 

Thing is though, a negative article is fair, although you would have thought, they wanted to be on side with club..., but article like these serves only one purpose, load the gun and let others fire it...  to cause anger and mistrust between the fans and the club.

Nothing else.... Poor.

[smokes]

12 minutes ago, butters said:

they were rebuilding before he got there. You can't ignore that history when making comparisons to other teams. 

If you are going to count that then the Willis article should not be Shanahan vs Linden, it should be post 2000 Maple Leafs vs post 2000 Canucks.