[Discussion] Buy low on Pulijujarvi

[higgyfan]

Coilers have sent Puli back to AHL.  Another example of rushing a prospect into the NHL and having them fall on their faces.  Must be very frustrating (and disappointing) for this young player. 

 

https://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2018/11/11/oilers-assign-forwards-jesse-puljujarvi-kailer-yamamoto-to-ahl-bakersfield.html

[Me_]

VAN

Lucic

Puljujarvi

 

EDM

Bärtschi

Grandlund

Hutton

[Alflives]

20 minutes ago, Me_ said:

VAN

Lucic

Puljujarvi

 

EDM

Bärtschi

Grandlund

Hutton

Do we want to give up Hutton though?  Plus, we get stuck with Lucic's grotesque contract.  

Heck, maybe Granny (alone) is a better player than Puljujarvi?  

[higgyfan]

4 hours ago, Me_ said:

VAN

Lucic

Puljujarvi

 

EDM

Bärtschi

Grandlund

Hutton

Seems like a very lopsided trade in favour of the Coilers. 

 

Lucic is too slow for today's NHL and the puck dies on his stick.  I don't see Van taking on yet another overblown contract; that would be 12m for Loui and Luch (and another 4 yrs). Yikes!

 

Baer and Granny both play a 200' game and can provide offence as well.  Both are good skaters.  Those 2 players would fill a lot of holes on the Coiler team and would have an immediate impact on their game.

 

Hutton is looking really good this season...would probably be Coiler's #3.  He would also have a positive impact on their game.

 

Right now Puli is at a low for market value.  Back to the AHL he goes, for the 3rd time now.

 

Just don't see JB doing this trade.

[flickyoursedin]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

Seems like a very lopsided trade in favour of the Coilers. 

 

Lucic is too slow for today's NHL and the puck dies on his stick.  I don't see Van taking on yet another overblown contract; that would be 12m for Loui and Luch (and another 4 yrs). Yikes!

 

Baer and Granny both play a 200' game and can provide offence as well.  Both are good skaters.  Those 2 players would fill a lot of holes on the Coiler team and would have an immediate impact on their game.

 

Hutton is looking really good this season...would probably be Coiler's #3.  He would also have a positive impact on their game.

 

Right now Puli is at a low for market value.  Back to the AHL he goes, for the 3rd time now.

 

Just don't see JB doing this trade.

We are filled to the cupboard with 200’ players and very bare with skilled players. While there are parts of the proposed deal I don’t like that being Baertschi and Lucic in the deal. I’d try and find a different deal that didn’t include those 2 pieces.

 

You’re right Pulj market is at an all time low and that’s why we’re having this thread. Why must everybody buy high on players. Buy low and sell high! Pulj is only 20 years old doesn’t turn 21 until after the season! Edmonton hasn’t been doing him any favours but just because he’s in the AHL again doesn’t deter me at all in trading for him. His creativity and skill would probably be better than half of our top 6 wingers.

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, flickyoursedin said:

We are filled to the cupboard with 200’ players and very bare with skilled players. While there are parts of the proposed deal I don’t like that being Baertschi and Lucic in the deal. I’d try and find a different deal that didn’t include those 2 pieces.

Well at this point, l think you are agreeing that it would be a ludicrous trade.

 

1 hour ago, flickyoursedin said:

You’re right Pulj market is at an all time low and that’s why we’re having this thread. Why must everybody buy high on players. Buy low and sell high!

Not quite sure what you mean by this.  Other than the ghastly Lucic, Baer, Granny and Hutton trade, who else is 'buying high'?

 

 

 

[flickyoursedin]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

Well at this point, l think you are agreeing that it would be a ludicrous trade.

 

Not quite sure what you mean by this.  Other than the ghastly Lucic, Baer, Granny and Hutton trade, who else is 'buying high'?

 

 

 

It’s not a ludacris trade as in terms of value I’d just rather not trade Baertschi because I think production wise this will be his best year. He’ll have more opportunity this year than he’s ever had with a permanent spot in the top 6 and getting a chance on the number 1 PP. Also Lucic on that contract I don’t hate the deal just personally wouldn’t do that one in particular.

 

The boards in general always shoot down a guy that isn’t producing. Guys turn down Sam Reinhardt for I think Hutton and a pick or Baertschi proposals last year. They’d rather pay a premium for Karlsson or Panarin 1 year away from free agency.

 

The buy low is on a 20 year old top prospect. In two years from now people will be making trade for Pulj threads when he’s producing in the NHL and they’ll be offering 1rst round picks +. They don’t want to take the risk and trade for a guy when he’s relatively cheap but has tremendous upside.

[higgyfan]

8 hours ago, flickyoursedin said:

It’s not a ludacris trade as in terms of value I’d just rather not trade Baertschi because I think production wise this will be his best year. He’ll have more opportunity this year than he’s ever had with a permanent spot in the top 6 and getting a chance on the number 1 PP. Also Lucic on that contract I don’t hate the deal just personally wouldn’t do that one in particular.

Unloading Lucic is of huge value to Edm and  acqiring 2 solid NHL players as well would improve their team significantly.  Imo that trade would be an overpayment for Puli.

 

8 hours ago, flickyoursedin said:

 

The boards in general always shoot down a guy that isn’t producing. Guys turn down Sam Reinhardt for I think Hutton and a pick or Baertschi proposals last year. They’d rather pay a premium for Karlsson or Panarin 1 year away from free agency.

I can only speak for myself and I rarely discuss trades here.  Fans on this board are amateurs having fun, which makes me more than happy that the Canuck management team are the ones that make the trade decisions.

 

8 hours ago, flickyoursedin said:

The buy low is on a 20 year old top prospect. In two years from now people will be making trade for Pulj threads when he’s producing in the NHL and they’ll be offering 1rst round picks +. They don’t want to take the risk and trade for a guy when he’s relatively cheap but has tremendous upside.

Puli is young enough to be considered a good risk in a trade, as he will likely become an NHL player, but the real guesswork is whether he will perform at the level people previously expected.  But, as you have stated, a gm doesn't get  a 'hit it out of the park trade' by ignoring these kind of trades.

 

Personally, I don't think Edm is ready to give up on this players and would only look at an overpayment in a trade.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, higgyfan said:

Unloading Lucic is of huge value to Edm and  acqiring 2 solid NHL players as well would improve their team significantly.  Imo that trade would be an overpayment for Puli.

 

I can only speak for myself and I rarely discuss trades here.  Fans on this board are amateurs having fun, which makes me more than happy that the Canuck management team are the ones that make the trade decisions.

 

Puli is young enough to be considered a good risk in a trade, as he will likely become an NHL player, but the real guesswork is whether he will perform at the level people previously expected.  But, as you have stated, a gm doesn't get  a 'hit it out of the park trade' by ignoring these kind of trades.

 

Personally, I don't think Edm is ready to give up on this players and would only look at an overpayment in a trade.

And taking Lucic would be a WAY over payment.  

[Kanukfanatic]

20 hours ago, Me_ said:

VAN

Lucic

Puljujarvi

 

EDM

Bärtschi

Grandlund

Hutton

Good god that would be awful for the Canucks. Lucic totally sucks. Pulj is a good prospect but no way he is worth what you suggest.

 

This is a very bad proposal for the Vancouver Canucks. Horrid actually (seen Lucic's contract?? sheesh).

[Where'd Luongo?]

Puljajrvi is not going for anything less than a top prospect and a high 1st round pick if he goes anywhere this season.

[The_Rocket]

On 2018-11-11 at 9:08 AM, mll said:

What if CBJ knew something that others didn't.

 

It's not the same crew in Edmonton anymore.  Not even the same scouting department.  

I’m not referring to the old regime, but it should be noted that plenty of the old boys club still have influence on the team here in Edmonton. I’m talking about the modern oilers, since 2015, trying to rely on entry level contracts to balance out larger ones. Puljijavi was supposed to be a cheap elc that played top 6 minutes, similar to what draisaitl had done. If the oilers hadve slowed down and recognized that he needed time to develop, they wouldn’t have tried so hard to force him into the line up.

 

Pulji had some exceptional numbers in Liiga, even as a 16 year old, plus he’s one of the biggest players on the oilers and one of the few skaters who can keep pace with McDavid. Unfortunately, his career has been destroyed by the oilers failing to come up with a development plan for him. Trying to play him as a bottom 6 winger instead of a top 6 in Bakersfield is a huge mistake. If he have had 1-2 years in the AHL or Liiga (similar to what the Canucks are doing with joulevi), it would’ve been huge for him. But impatient ownership and a “win now” mentality for the last 2 seasons has ruined that.

[The_Rocket]

41 minutes ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

Puljajrvi is not going for anything less than a top prospect and a high 1st round pick if he goes anywhere this season.

Have u seen chiarellis trade history?

 

 

Blake wheeler, Tyler sequin, Taylor hall, Jordan erberle, not to mention multiple second and first round picks;

 

he has no problem making a losing trade if he thinks it makes his team better for the current season. He’s in the hot seat in edmonton right now, don’t be surprised if he gets desperate and makes a bad trade for temporary gain.

 

that being said, pulji is not worth a high 1st and top prospect no matter how patient the gm might be. Your severely over rating the likelihood he reaches his potential.

[Where'd Luongo?]

2 hours ago, The_Rocket said:

Have u seen chiarellis trade history?

 

 

Blake wheeler, Tyler sequin, Taylor hall, Jordan erberle, not to mention multiple second and first round picks;

 

he has no problem making a losing trade if he thinks it makes his team better for the current season. He’s in the hot seat in edmonton right now, don’t be surprised if he gets desperate and makes a bad trade for temporary gain.

 

that being said, pulji is not worth a high 1st and top prospect no matter how patient the gm might be. Your severely over rating the likelihood he reaches his potential.

You are severely overreacting to the play of a 20 year old. He was 4th overall pick that hasn't even begun to tap into his potential. 

 

Chia traded eberle for a former 5th overall and hall for a former 3rd overall. The trades didn't work out as planned but he didn't trade them for table scraps, they had and still have potential (meaning he was planning for the future). He also couldn't afford to keep them along with Drais and McD (again planning for the future).

 

Larsson was projected to be a top shutdown d, while strome was already a decent 3rd line center and eberle just choked HARD.

 

By your analysis he is trolling the league and actively trying to kill the franchise.

 

In reality he tried to address the need that everyone at the time knew they lacked, while planning for the future. It saw some success immediately and followed with a setback but with a little luck they will be decent this year. 

[TheGuardian_]

20 hours ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

You are severely overreacting to the play of a 20 year old. He was 4th overall pick that hasn't even begun to tap into his potential. 

 

Chia traded eberle for a former 5th overall and hall for a former 3rd overall. The trades didn't work out as planned but he didn't trade them for table scraps, they had and still have potential (meaning he was planning for the future). He also couldn't afford to keep them along with Drais and McD (again planning for the future).

 

Larsson was projected to be a top shutdown d, while strome was already a decent 3rd line center and eberle just choked HARD.

 

By your analysis he is trolling the league and actively trying to kill the franchise.

 

In reality he tried to address the need that everyone at the time knew they lacked, while planning for the future. It saw some success immediately and followed with a setback but with a little luck they will be decent this year. 

The Oilers really need another shut down dman and a goalie that can compete for #1. Talbot just doesn't seem to be able to carry the team, maybe it is the travel certainly the defence is an issue as well. They also will need cap space.

 

JP has not flourished in the role they are trying ot get him to play, does that sound familiar? The Nucks spent almost 4 years trying to make Virtanen into something he was not suited to or drafted for, Jake wasn't drafted #6 overall because he hit, he got that because of his speed and shot. Jesse is being used in somewhat the same way, he didn't hit a lot in Finland, he skated, played a ton and has a good shot, what the Oilers need instead of him is a Sutter type player.

 

JP on the Canucks, roll 3 lines of young guys......it is the regular season nothing says they have to roll 4 lines.

 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

The Oilers really need another shut down dman and a goalie that can compete for #1. Talbot just doesn't seem to be able to carry the team, maybe it is the travel certainly the defence is an issue as well. They also will need cap space.

 

JP has not flourished in the role they are trying ot get him to play, does that sound familiar? The Nucks spent almost 4 years trying to make Virtanen into something he was not suited to or drafted for, Jake wasn't drafted #6 overall because he hit, he got that because of his speed and shot. Jesse is being used in somewhat the same way, he didn't hit a lot in Finland, he skated, played a ton and has a good shot, what the Oilers need instead of him is a Sutter type player.

 

JP on the Canucks, roll 3 lines of young guys......it is the regular season nothing says they have to roll 4 lines.

 

 

Giving up Sutter might be too much for us right now.  If Beagle was healthy, then maybe?  If Gaudette continues to show he can play a checking role, then that could free up Sutter too.  I'm no longer sold on Puliarvi though.  Maybe, he's just not a good enough skater for the NHL?  I do agree the Oilers are terrible at developing their youth to the fullest potential.  That's for sure.  

[TheGuardian_]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Giving up Sutter might be too much for us right now.  If Beagle was healthy, then maybe?  If Gaudette continues to show he can play a checking role, then that could free up Sutter too.  I'm no longer sold on Puliarvi though.  Maybe, he's just not a good enough skater for the NHL?  I do agree the Oilers are terrible at developing their youth to the fullest potential.  That's for sure.  

In his case it is simply they selected the wrong guy, rumour had it they wanted a dman but they took him and they are trying to get him to play like Tkachuk, a third line winger or banger with skill. His skating is great if he is just playing without the scrutiny. He just isn't the right player and he can't beat out the other guys at center. Could be there is some other reason but when unleashed he seems to be able to score.

 

Oh there is no giving up on Sutter, just an example BUT the team should still be about rebuilding, it is nice winning a few and having Elias show good but there is still a roe to hoe yet before the job is done. Lose for Hughes, nope, just load up on 2020 picks and get that one of the two kids in that draft. Even if it is trading Hughes Bros if we got the number one. One of those kids with Elias and Horvat, scarry

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

In his case it is simply they selected the wrong guy, rumour had it they wanted a dman but they took him and they are trying to get him to play like Tkachuk, a third line winger or banger with skill. His skating is great if he is just playing without the scrutiny. He just isn't the right player and he can't beat out the other guys at center. Could be there is some other reason but when unleashed he seems to be able to score.

 

Oh there is no giving up on Sutter, just an example BUT the team should still be about rebuilding, it is nice winning a few and having Elias show good but there is still a roe to hoe yet before the job is done. Lose for Hughes, nope, just load up on 2020 picks and get that one of the two kids in that draft. Even if it is trading Hughes Bros if we got the number one. One of those kids with Elias and Horvat, scarry

I agree that Pulijiarvi is still young, and could certainly develop into a top 6 guy.  I also agree that Edmonton is not a good fit for him.

As for Sutter, I would trade him providing Gaudette can take over that role.  

[TheGuardian_]

31 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I agree that Pulijiarvi is still young, and could certainly develop into a top 6 guy.  I also agree that Edmonton is not a good fit for him.

As for Sutter, I would trade him providing Gaudette can take over that role.  

Sutter will bring more value at the TDL than Gaudette.

 

Gaudette's big value  right now is the Hobey Baker award and how much the US makes of college sports. IMO Gaudette will play in the NHL most probable as a 3rd liner and there are lots of those. Right now that award may sweeten a deal. I hear Winnipeg has an unhappy VESALAINEN threatening to go to Europe, Pittsburgh maybe interested in a deal for Sprong, not if he would be an upgrade but VESALAINEN could work.

[The_Rocket]

On 2018-11-14 at 5:14 PM, Where'd Luongo? said:

You are severely overreacting to the play of a 20 year old. He was 4th overall pick that hasn't even begun to tap into his potential. 

 

Chia traded eberle for a former 5th overall and hall for a former 3rd overall. The trades didn't work out as planned but he didn't trade them for table scraps, they had and still have potential (meaning he was planning for the future). He also couldn't afford to keep them along with Drais and McD (again planning for the future).

 

Larsson was projected to be a top shutdown d, while strome was already a decent 3rd line center and eberle just choked HARD.

 

By your analysis he is trolling the league and actively trying to kill the franchise.

 

In reality he tried to address the need that everyone at the time knew they lacked, while planning for the future. It saw some success immediately and followed with a setback but with a little luck they will be decent this year. 

I think you’re missing my point here, friend. 

 

Im not saying puljujarvi is a bad prospect, in fact I think it’s the opposite. I just think your wrong on your valuation of him on the trade market and the likelihood of him being traded. 

 

Chiarelli is on the hot seat here in  Edmonton. There is pressure from fans, media, and ownership to play meaningful games this spring and make the playoffs. Unfortunately, they have one of the worst right sides in the NHL and puljujarvi has not shown he can play at the NHL level this year. He is in the final year of his ELC and will require waivers next season. He’s been out played by guys like rattie, Chiasson, and even Kassian. He’s been a healthy scratch multiple times and now finds himself with the Condors in the AHL. As I’ve stated, Chia as shown a willingness to trade away potential in order to fix immidiate needs (Hall for larsson to fix defense, a 1st and a 2nd to fix defense, and eberle for Strome to save cap space and had centre depth). There is no reason to believe he wouldn’t trade puljujarvi for an established NHL player, especially if he can shed salary first. 

 

As for the assumption it would take a top prospect AND a high first to get him; really think about that for a second. 

 

Would you trade joulevi and say, the 11th overall selection for JP?

 

what about Dahlen and the 11th?

 

Simply, he’s not worth that much, and Chiarelli wouldn’t even be looking for only those pieces in return. He’d something more along the lines of a top 6 winger and a defensman