The likelihood of Edler and Tanev being successfully replaced within the system

[Hindustan Smyl]

The likelihood of Edler and Tanev being successfully replaced within the system

 

My question is two-fold:

 

1) How likely do you think it would be for Edler and Tanev to be successfully replaced within the system over these next two years *without* the Canucks needing to look at Free Agency for help?   

 

Can......

 

-Hughes replace Edler as a top pairing LD?

-Can Woo Or Tryamkin replace Tanev as the rock-steady defensive conscience on a 1st pairing?

-Can Juolevi step into the line-up one day and not only be an upgrade over some of the stinkers that we’ve had (Pouliot, Sbisa, etc.,), but also a guy like Ben Hutton as well?

 

All of the above then leads me to question number two?

 

2) In your opinion, do the Canucks currently have enough defensive pieces/prospects within the system, to not only successfully replace Edler and Tanev in their respective roles, but to also make our defense significantly better than it currently is?.......and dare I say, be one of the best defense corps in the league one day?

 

Defense in two years:

 

Hughes-Woo

Hutton-Stecher

Juolevi-Tryamkin

 

[plus - any luck we have in the 2019 draft with the defensemen we draft]

 

Does that above defense in the future have any chance of not only being better than our current defense, but to also be considered an elite defensive corps one day?

 

The ultimate reason why I’m posing this question, is because I’m wondering if the Canucks should take a calculated risk in concerting their UFA efforts into forwards......while letting the defense grow organically via what they have + drafting.

 

Forwards:  Target UFA’s

Defense:  Promote from within when the time is right + draft picks.

 

IF one can argue that Hughes, Juolevi, Woo, and Tryamkin can not only successfully fill the shoes of Edler and Tanev, but also take our defense to new heights in 2 years, then I would *heavily* push for the above strategy.

 

As it relates to the 2019 UFA, that would mean forgetting about Karlsson, Myers, Stralman, Jordie Benn, etc.......and simply hypertargeting/concerting all efforts on forwards.

 

These are the areas where I think the Canucks need to improve: (designated with a #####).

 

#####-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-#####

Leivo-Gaudette-Virtanen

Roussel-Beagle-#####

 

Edler-Stecher

Hutton-#####

Hughes-Tanev

 

Markstrom

Demko

 

Obviously - Guys like Sutter, Eriksson, Baertschi, Goldobin, Granlund, and Spooner would not fit into my long term plans.

 

As it relates to the 2019 UFA, I think the Canucks can pretty much have their entire forward group completely built.

 

-Panarin, Duchene, or Skinner for top line LW.

-Dzingel or Brett Connolly for that 2nd line RW spot.

-Motte and MacEwan battle it out for that 4th Line RW spot.

 

On defense, 

 

-Sign Edler for two years.

-As I talked about earlier, guys like Hughes, Woo, Juolevi, And Tryamkin replace Edler, Tanev, and perhaps one other guy over the next 2 years.

 

I’m just wondering if all of the above strategy is the best way to go about doing things:

 

1) Have our forward line-up completely built before the start of next season via UFA.

2) Build our D *completely* organically due to the belief/calculated risk that we have enough pieces internally (plus Tryamkin) to field an elite defensive corps one day.

[IBatch]

Yes even with that timeline.

 

Edler isn’t easily replaceable as he is now, but what he might be like in two or three years yes, draft Broberg this year and we have his replacement value in the bag.  Will be bigger, already faster and has good hands.  Then take into consideration he averages sixty plus or minus a few games a year...having a top guy who isn’t injured a fair amount and it’s addition by subtraction in my mind if the players are close in quality.

 

Hughes is NOT Edlers replacement, he doesn’t have the size to do all he does BUT he’s got a lot more in other areas, that’s why I didn’t use him as Edlers replacement, he will actually be above him on the depth chart soon enough anyways.

 

Tanev is more of a question mark.  Woo can be his replacement but who really knows, he’s possible.

 

But here’s the kicker.  Tanev is worse then Edler when it comes to staying healthy and he’s also declining.  I’d say that Stetcher has already replaced him and we should trade him to anyone that will take him and his 40-50 games per year.  Unless Tanev completely alters the way he plays we won’t ever stay out of the infirmary, so far he hasn’t figured that out, and the flip side is he won’t be as effective if he does figure it out.  

 

Broberg can also play the right side, so he could be Tanevs replacement in a couple years possibly too, except he’s more like a faster Edler, who will also be a bigger Edler once he finishes filling out.   Hard to really say if he can do it but that’s what the scouting reports indicate, second best D-man this draft, and arguably the closest to NHL ready too.

 

OJ is a question mark, has had some bad injury luck early on ... a pattern that wouldn’t help us much if continued...then again Rocket Richard also spent his first few years injured so let’s give him the benefit of the doubt.  He really is a Tanev 2.0 with more offense , just on the left side.  He will absolutely have games within a year or two and push out a fringe not very good player.  

 

Hughes is the only slam dunk so far,  but I’d say we have enough in the pipe to replace the top line, it’s not exactly a very good top line, so it shouldn’t be too hard to do.  As for the question will it be one of the best in the league?  Doesn’t seem likely but you never know.  Hughes would have to be a perennial Norris trophy candidate, and Broberg play like prime Edler.. 

[IBatch]

As an aside as it’s relevant.  If Benning is ready to get this team to the playoffs he will absolutely have to go to free agency to fix the defense.  Gardiner, Myers, Stralman or whomever needs to be signed.  I’d rather we didn’t and drafted our way out of this for one more year after this one but would be ok with a short term deal for one of these guys too (which is a pipe dream, Stralman at 3 years is probably the shortest we could manage).  

 

This year we were again a top five team for man games lost FOUR years in a row.  Tanev and Edler and Sutter again and again and again.  I know Edler had a great year by his standards, he’s done that the last two contract years and in between has seen a lot of bashing.  I also know that without him Hughes and Hutton and OJ will be overwhelmed so signing him despite this makes sense.  Especially because he has size where as most of the rest do not.

 

Tanev id like to let go, or trade.  He’s too old to be part of the new core long term and would rather sign Stralman to take up his duties.  

 

By signing Edler and Hughes on full time OJ will be the next up ... Brisbois maybe or Sautner but they don’t have OJs upside.    Hutton is the odd man out with some trade value, if I was Benning I’d trade him for an equal on the RHD or a prospect or a pick or whatever to make room.  Tryamkin comes back then more shuffling required. 

 

[Baer.]

Ah the classic all our prospects are elite and all free agents sign with us threads mashed into one. Must be a new record!

[Hindustan Smyl]

19 minutes ago, Baer. said:

Ah the classic all our prospects are elite and all free agents sign with us threads mashed into one. Must be a new record!

That’s not what I was trying to imply with my post.

 

The only prospect of ours who I think is elite is Quinn Hughes.....and I think he’ll be a good 1st pairing dman one day.  

 

As for my other projections, are they really that unrealistic?

 

1) Hughes replacing Edler as a bona-fide top pairing LD.

2) Tryamkin or Woo replacing Tanev as the team’s best shut down guy, while being a steady and calming force on a top pairing.

3) Juolevi being better than any 3rd pairing dman that we’ve had since 2014.

 

Out of those three, I’d say only #2 is “pushing it” a little.

 

As far as UFA’s go,

 

1) the Canucks have money

2) the Canucks would be offering an opportunity to play with one of the best young centers (Pettersson) and right wingers (Boeser) in the league.

 

From where I sit, that’s a pretty enticing opportunity.......to the point where atleast one of Panarin, Duchene, and Skinner would strongly consider it.

 

If a guy like Brett Connolly was offered a long term deal and an opportunity to play on a 2nd line with good 2nd line caliber players that match up well with his game (Horvat + Pearson), then why would he automatically say no?

 

Obviously - not all UFA’s would say ‘yes’ to coming here, but I think our forward group would have a lot to offer.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Hughes elite potential offensively isn’t going to be enough to replace the defensive abilities of Tanev & Edler.  Unfortunately those two are just worn down from overuse (ideally 2nd pairing guys that get moved up simply because we had nobody better).  Same will happen to guys like Stecher (who being smaller will get physically worn down faster).  Unless the Russian comes back, there’s nobody but Woo in the pipeline really to replace those defensive minutes.

 

[Baer.]

2 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

That’s not what I was trying to imply with my post.

 

The only prospect of ours who I think is elite is Quinn Hughes.....and I think he’ll be a good 1st pairing dman one day.  

 

As for my other projections, are they really that unrealistic?

 

1) Hughes replacing Edler as a bona-fide top pairing LD.

2) Tryamkin or Woo replacing Tanev as the team’s best shut down guy, while being a steady and calming force on a top pairing.

3) Juolevi being better than any 3rd pairing dman that we’ve had since 2014.

 

Out of those three, I’d say only #2 is “pushing it” a little.

 

As far as UFA’s go,

 

1) the Canucks have money

2) the Canucks would be offering an opportunity to play with one of the best young centers (Pettersson) and right wingers (Boeser) in the league.

 

From where I sit, that’s a pretty enticing opportunity.......to the point where atleast one of Panarin, Duchene, and Skinner would strongly consider it.

 

If a guy like Brett Connolly was offered a long term deal and an opportunity to play on a 2nd line with good 2nd line caliber players that match up well with his game (Horvat + Pearson), then why would he automatically say no?

 

Obviously - not all UFA’s would say ‘yes’ to coming here, but I think our forward group would have a lot to offer.

Don't waste your words

[Hindustan Smyl]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Hughes elite potential offensively isn’t going to be enough to replace the defensive abilities of Tanev & Edler.  Unfortunately those two are just worn down from overuse (ideally 2nd pairing guys that get moved up simply because we had nobody better).  Same will happen to guys like Stecher (who being smaller will get physically worn down faster).  Unless the Russian comes back, there’s nobody but Woo in the pipeline really to replace those defensive minutes.

 

I realize that about Hughes.

 

I wasn’t trying to make a stylistic comparison between Hughes and Edler.  All I was trying to say was that, like Edler, Hughes will be a 1st pairing caliber dman.  Obviously - Hughes would need a good sized solid defensively responsible defenseman to play with to give said 1st pairing an appropriate amount of balance.  

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

Such high expectations placed on Jett Woo here... top pairing D-man?  That's crazy hype.

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Hughes elite potential offensively isn’t going to be enough to replace the defensive abilities of Tanev & Edler.  Unfortunately those two are just worn down from overuse (ideally 2nd pairing guys that get moved up simply because we had nobody better).  Same will happen to guys like Stecher (who being smaller will get physically worn down faster).  Unless the Russian comes back, there’s nobody but Woo in the pipeline really to replace those defensive minutes.

 

Absolutely.  I think we draft Broberg if he’s available, he’s close to NHL ready now and looks like Edler 2.0 with upside as he’s a better skater now with a similar all around skill set.  Doesn’t have the offensive upside Byram has but he won’t be available where we pick.  

 

Also think Benning will plug up the right side with one of the top four guys available ... and probably pay a premium to do so.  Re-sign Edler and trade Tanev at the earliest opportunity.  Elder will get replaced organically by one of OJ or Broberg hopefully, and our UFA replaces Tanev right away, giving us a five year window to work on drafting more for that side, and possibly just using one more free agent if required.  That is an improvement going into next year. 

[Hindustan Smyl]

7 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Such high expectations placed on Jett Woo here... top pairing D-man?  That's crazy hype.

Top pairing dman in the form of a “steady passenger” rather than an alpha (ie a solid guy that can be the ‘ying’ to the ‘yang’ of the true superstar).  

 

For example - maybe like a Jake Muzzin to a Drew Doughty.......or the Dennis Sidenberg to a Zdeno Chara......or a whoever played with Kris Letang (Dumoulin?) in Pittsburgh,  and whoever played with PK Subban in Montreal.  

 

That’s what I had in mind by my comment.

 

If we’re going back in time a bit, maybe even the modern days version of New Jersey’s Ken Daneyko (who often played with Scott Niedermayer when the Devils won their cups?).

[Hindustan Smyl]

October 1st 2021:

 

This is the (unrealistic?) line-up that I had in mind for around October 1st, 2021:  Obviously - things will be substantially different when you consider what prospects will come through our system, but this was the idea that I had in mind:

 

Duchene-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Connolly

Leivo-Gaudette-Virtanen

Roussel-Beagle-MacEwan

 

Hughes-Tryamkin

Hutton-Woo

Juolevi-Stecher

 

Markstrom

Demko

 

 

[aGENT]

I'd move Tanev, sign Stralman to stop gap, and make a trade for a 2nd pair, young, right D.

 

Hughes and Juolevi are likely to take over 1st and 2nd LD eventually. The above trade, Woo, Stecher, Tryamkin etc can battle it out for the right D slots. Fill in the blanks with Rathbone, Brisebois, Sautner, future draft picks, college FA's etc. 

 

Trade for and/or sign another guy or two as needed.

[Provost]

Zero chance they are replaced internally... but an even bigger issue is that even with them we need upgrades.

 

I love Stecher to bits, but he should be giving you amazing 3rd pairing minutes and only move up in case of injury.  Asking him to be a top pairing D is a lot. He can survive in that role better than our other options, but not really thrive.

 

Tanev seems to have gotten really old, really quickly.  Too many miles and too many injuries.  He is still one of our best options, but it also feels like he is just trying to hold his own with what we are asking of him.  He isn’t driving plays or getting that great first pass out often zone like he did a couple years ago.

 

Hutton did more than we could have realistically asked of him... but selling relatively high might be prudent.... maybe at the deadline next season if Juolevi looks ready for 3rd pairing minutes.

 

We need to make a trade for a young top 4 guy in my opinion.

 

Philipe Myers, Sanheim, Pesce, Hamilton, Provorov... someone like that.

 

Instead of locking into 4 years of a guy like Stralman (who would be perfect if you could sign him to 2 years)... use that money to bribe Tryamkin back a year early.

 

[Chris12345]

In short, unlikely.

 

Even though I am not a fan of Edler or Tanev, you don't replace 20 years of experience easily.

[Googlie]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Absolutely.  I think we draft Broberg if he’s available, he’s close to NHL ready now and looks like Edler 2.0 with upside as he’s a better skater now with a similar all around skill set.  Doesn’t have the offensive upside Byram has but he won’t be available where we pick.  

 

Also think Benning will plug up the right side with one of the top four guys available ... and probably pay a premium to do so.  Re-sign Edler and trade Tanev at the earliest opportunity.  Elder will get replaced organically by one of OJ or Broberg hopefully, and our UFA replaces Tanev right away, giving us a five year window to work on drafting more for that side, and possibly just using one more free agent if required.  That is an improvement going into next year. 

I think JB hits for the fences and gets EK this summer.  He and Edler were a formidable pairing in the 2014 games, and we all saw EP getting mentored by EK at the All Star game. We can afford him, and if QH lives up to the hype (doing OK so far) Canucks would arguably have the 2 most dynamic pmd's in the league!!

[J.I.A.H.N]

I am going primarily discuss Defense, but I will say this about Benning's proposed UFA market signings...…….

Benning will sign 1 UFA forward, that is it. It will either be a 1st line LWer or a 2nd Line RWer

It will be based on who he gets at the draft.....if he get a LWer in the draft, he will sign a RW

and visa versa....the reason being, the UFA he signs will be the 5/6 year filler, the 2019 1st he picks

will be ear marked to play 10+ year, starting in a year, maybe earlier if able.

 

Back to defense...……..Benning will be signing a RHD 2/3 dman, who will be picked to play with Hughes,

who will if not now, within the year, be a 1st line player...that is why he was draft, that is why he will be there.

And from watching Hughes, I see no reason to think otherwise.

 

The signing of the RHD UFA, will push Edler and Tanev down....Edler to the 2nd pairing, and Tanev to the 3rd pairing, 

which will ultimately make Tanev expendable. But If I were Benning, I would be a) counting on Edler and Tanev to have less

injuries at those positions, and b) make the Defense much more solid.

 

Personally I feel, with our prospects pushing...this will make Tanev very expendable, and could make one of Hutton/Juolevi

expendable for a lateral move for another RHD prospect. But all that will depend on if Benning signs any other RHD

college prospects.....

 

I see Benning doing a lot of House keeping this summer pre and post draft, to free up club spots, and cap space, 

as well as to acquire additional picks....

 

IMO....that is how it happens......

 

Note* When players are asked to do more than their talent allows, it causes mistakes and makes them look worst,

both Edler and Tanev have unfairly suffered from this. By having Hughes and a higher UFA RHD come in, it will help

both Edler and Tanev immensely. I think the defense looks much better next year.

 

I am also very excited by our defensive prospects...….it should be an interesting couple of years....

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Zero chance they are replaced internally... but an even bigger issue is that even with them we need upgrades.

 

I love Stecher to bits, but he should be giving you amazing 3rd pairing minutes and only move up in case of injury.  Asking him to be a top pairing D is a lot. He can survive in that role better than our other options, but not really thrive.

 

Tanev seems to have gotten really old, really quickly.  Too many miles and too many injuries.  He is still one of our best options, but it also feels like he is just trying to hold his own with what we are asking of him.  He isn’t driving plays or getting that great first pass out often zone like he did a couple years ago.

 

Hutton did more than we could have realistically asked of him... but selling relatively high might be prudent.... maybe at the deadline next season if Juolevi looks ready for 3rd pairing minutes.

 

We need to make a trade for a young top 4 guy in my opinion.

 

Philipe Myers, Sanheim, Pesce, Hamilton, Provorov... someone like that.

 

Instead of locking into 4 years of a guy like Stralman (who would be perfect if you could sign him to 2 years)... use that money to bribe Tryamkin back a year early.

 

Provost....I love your comments here

 

But on the Stecher comment...….you say it is a stretch for him to play #1 line (I agree) , then completely jump 2nd pairing (I think he can play), and put him on the 3rd pairing.

I am not sure Stecher is a real long term 2nd pairing guy, but he is playing like it now...….

 

I think he will be a solid fill in until pushed out...then because of age, will probably be traded or onto the 3rd pairing...but we will be talking about 3/4 years.....I guess it depends

on how Benning fills in the RHD prospect list in the future......for now, where does Woo go? in a year or 2..

 

PS...……….I love Pesce….but afraid of the cost

 

 

[DADDYROCK]

What this team needs is for the Sedins to come in and get everyone in SHAPE,the twins were hardly ever out with injuries for long lengths of time and played the hardest minutes for years.

Every year we continually see our team riddled with injuries,especially on defense,and our playoff chances disappear rapidly thereafter.Pick up a minute munching stud defense man from another team to not only play like a monster(even LUKE SCHENN) has been an eye opener to what a defense man is supposed to be.These are the guys that give serious help to the young core stepping into a very tough position on the team.

As a defense man if you cough up the puck or make stupid play in your zone it is VERY OBVIOUS.and makes your confidence disappear in a hurry.

We could use an extra horse like( EDLER) back there to help the younger players grow accustomed to the grueling pace which is the NHL.

[jimmyking8888]

  Edler and Tanev are over rated.   You put them in the trade market see how many other teams are interested in them.  They are getting old and too injury prone , you let Edler walk.Trade Tanev  for something.