[proposal] Canucks’ best play right now would be to move Adam Gaudette for a young defenseman in a similar predicament to Adam Gaudette

[Hindustan Smyl]

43 minutes ago, mpt said:

The best move they could do right now is to trade Sutter so Gaudette has a job

I want to agree with this, but Gaudette still needs to do more in my eyes.   He had some flashes last year but he still didn't take ownership of that 3rd line C spot.    

 

As of this writing, it would be a risky move on Benning's part if the Canucks simply moved Sutter and handed Gaudette that 3rd line C spot.   Gaudette needs to have a very strong training camp to really make a case that the 3rd line C spot belongs to him.

[Nucker 67]

Put Gaudette on the wing. This might be a good 3rd line down the road?

 

Virtanen - Madden - Gaudette

[Hindustan Smyl]

26 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I agree that it would be nice to have some more d prospects but I don't see why trading Gaudette is the answer, or why we just don't put him in Utica to start the season so he can get more ice time. There's no need to lose him, at all. 

 

I think Woo and Rathbone will take steps, and we've seen some decent minutes out of Sautner and Breisbois. Yes thats thin, but we also now have Fantenberg for depth. Tryamkin and Utenen are also out there somewhere. 

 

Not sure theres an actual predicament here. 

 

 

Don't get me wrong - I love Gaudette, but I'm speaking more from the perspective that in order to receive a good young piece, you have to give up something of value as well.    

 

The Canucks seem to be very set down the middle.   Horvat and Pettersson should be here for the next 10+ years, while someone like Madden could very easily be in Gaudette's current spot not too far down the road.    Furthermore, it's not too difficult to get 3rd line Centers via trade and/or UFA if the Canucks ever found themselves lacking here.

 

I just personally feel that our defense needs another young piece that has a legit shot of growing into a Top 4 guy.   

 

If I'm being completely honest with you, I'd actually even consider packaging BOTH Gaudette and Madden if it meant landing a young significant defensive piece (I was actually close to making a thread revolving around THAT idea but decided not to pursue it because it was a little too unrealistic/impractical).     

 

The Canucks do have a lot of defensive prospects in the pipeline, but none of them  (outside of Hughes) are screaming, "I'm very likely to be a GOOD top 4 calibre guy" right now.   I'm seeing a lot of solid 3rd pairing Ben Huttonish  kind of guys (maybe some Troy Stecher calibre guys) that wouldn't look out of place playing on a 2nd pairing, but I'm just not seeing any guy that would be a GOOD or upper echelon 2nd pairing guy.     It's not an issue right now, but it could become a major issue over these next two years as we ponder the idea of moving on from Edler and Tanev.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Hindustan Smyl

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Don't get me wrong - I love Gaudette, but I'm speaking more from the perspective that in order to receive a good young piece, you have to give up something of value as well.    

 

The Canucks seem to be very set down the middle.   Horvat and Pettersson should be here for the next 10+ years, while someone like Madden could very easily be in Gaudette's current spot not too far down the road.    Furthermore, it's not too difficult to get 3rd line Centers via trade and/or UFA if the Canucks ever found themselves lacking here.

 

I just personally feel that our defense needs another young piece that has a legit shot of growing into a Top 4 guy.   

 

If I'm being completely honest with you, I'd actually even consider packaging BOTH Gaudette and Madden if it meant landing a young significant defensive piece (I was actually close to making a thread revolving around THAT idea but decided not to pursue it because it was a little too unrealistic/impractical).     

 

The Canucks do have a lot of defensive prospects in the pipeline, but none of them  (outside of Hughes) are screaming, "I'm very likely to be a GOOD top 4 calibre guy" right now.   I'm seeing a lot of solid 3rd pairing Ben Huttonish  kind of guys (maybe some Troy Stecher calibre guys) that wouldn't look out of place playing on a 2nd pairing, but I'm just not seeing any guy that would be a GOOD or upper echelon 2nd pairing guy.     It's not an issue right now, but it could become a major issue over these next two years as we ponder the idea of moving on from Edler and Tanev.

Would you do Gaudette for Ristolainen?  

[coastal.view]

3 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

True, but as much as I hate to admit it, Juolevi is a huge question mark right now.  He’s coming off of two major injuries and obviously hasn’t played a whole lot of hockey these past couple of years.   When he was playing, his offensive game looked pretty good, but he also had some substantial holes in his defensive game.   I remain hopeful that he lives up to his potential, but he’ll have his work cut out for him.

the roster is mostly set for this season

there might still be one other change of note

nothing is urgent though as the team will be cap compliant when the season starts

 

but you appear to wish to continue to make moves without adequate information

we need half a season to assess sutter to see if he can rebound post injury and be effective in his role again - he then might actually have positive trade value

we need half a season (or more) to assess guadette to see if he can actually develop more into a suitable beagle/sutter replacement at this stage of his young career

we need at least half a season to assess joulevi to see if he can overcome his injury and other history that appears to have impeded his development (we also have other d in the system that could develop into nhl players)

we a need a little more time to see what we have in hughes

 

i really think the next pressure point for player movement will be around the tdl

unless an unexpected player really shows something at training camp / preseason

i think all the moves around the start of the season are fairly predictable already

 

i get that it is summer and the cdc boards are a bit slow

it generally is nice to see fresh threads

but i not sure just adding noise through any additional topics

does much to overcome the predictably slower summer break

 

[nux_win]

It's not a "predicament" to have 5 NHL quality centers.  Of course Gaudette wants more ice time and that's fine, we want all our players to want to play, but he'll get his chance to play (even if it is in the AHL for a little while).  If we want to be a good team we need organizational depth and that means having to juggle a few extra players and contracts.  I like it that we have an excess of forwards, it creates a competitive atmosphere (you have to earn your spot) and it also means that there are good call up options if and when someone goes down to injury.  It happens.  Go Canucks Go!

[Borvat]

Canucks best play is dump Eriksson.  Then start the season this is getting weird.

[Hindustan Smyl]

41 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Would you do Gaudette for Ristolainen?  

To make it work from a cap perspective, we’d have to add someone with a heavier cap hit (ie Tanev).   

 

Buffalo’s asking price for Risto is quite high apparently, and so I’m not sure if it would be worth it on our end to go after him.   To be honest, I have significant concerns over Risto’s defensive play and decision making ability.   I don’t think it would be worth it on our end to go after him.    

 

 

[DADDYROCK]

Hobey Baker award winning players are a valuable commodity,

Adam G. is still VERY young and can turn into a very very good defensive player with offensive abilities.

If you are going to trade such a player you had better get a SETH JONES,THOMAS CHABOT type player back in return.

 

Don't just trade these types of players without a lot of serious thought,what helps our team the most long term type thoughts.

[Hindustan Smyl]

13 minutes ago, Borvat said:

Canucks best play is dump Eriksson.  Then start the season this is getting weird.

Eriksson will be next to impossible to dump this season unless we do one of the following:

 

1) Take on a bad contract (think:  Lucic for Neal).

2) Add in a significant sweetener (think:  Bickel + TT to the Canes)

3) Significant retention (think:  Phaneuf to the Kings from Ottawa).

4) Send Eriksson to Utica with minimal cap savings

 

None of these are desirable scenarios for Vancouver unfortunately.  

 

In my opinion, our best play is to keep Eriksson for this season and hope that he can increase his value so that we can move him without retention.  Moving Baertschi and Schaller is our best play to make for clearing cap space (5.2-5.3 million in cap space).   

 

The Canucks should wait until after July 1st 2020 to move Eriksson.  He will only be owed 5 million in real dollars at that point.  If you send him to the minors at that point, he would be far more likely to contemplate retirement as well (ie riding buses for two years for just a “measley” 5 million total).

[mpt]

1 hour ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

I want to agree with this, but Gaudette still needs to do more in my eyes.   He had some flashes last year but he still didn't take ownership of that 3rd line C spot.    

 

As of this writing, it would be a risky move on Benning's part if the Canucks simply moved Sutter and handed Gaudette that 3rd line C spot.   Gaudette needs to have a very strong training camp to really make a case that the 3rd line C spot belongs to him.

We have a lot of natural centres on this team that can cover for Gaudette if he doesn’t deserve it.  We also don’t really have a 4th line this year.  The 4th and 3rd lines are going to be equally as good.

[Borvat]

12 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Eriksson will be next to impossible to dump this season unless we do one of the following:

 

1) Take on a bad contract (think:  Lucic for Neal).

2) Add in a significant sweetener (think:  Bickel + TT to the Canes)

3) Significant retention (think:  Phaneuf to the Kings from Ottawa).

4) Send Eriksson to Utica with minimal cap savings

 

None of these are desirable scenarios for Vancouver unfortunately.  

 

In my opinion, our best play is to keep Eriksson for this season and hope that he can increase his value so that we can move him without retention.  Moving Baertschi and Schaller is our best play to make for clearing cap space (5.2-5.3 million in cap space).   

 

The Canucks should wait until after July 1st 2020 to move Eriksson.  He will only be owed 5 million in real dollars at that point.  If you send him to the minors at that point, he would be far more likely to contemplate retirement as well (ie riding buses for two years for just a “measley” 5 million total).

Nope, he has stated he doesn't agree (with the Coach) where he "was" in the lineup last year.  I am fairly certain he will like it even less further down the lineup next year.  He needs to go, Eriksson, his agent, TG and JB all know this.  Pretty hard to come back especially with how the fans have reacted also.  If he is here it will not be good for anyone.  If he is Canucks property it better be in Utica.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Borvat

[Hindustan Smyl]

7 minutes ago, Borvat said:

Nope, he has stated he doesn't agree (with the Coach) where he "was" in the lineup last year.  I am fairly certain he will like it even less further down the lineup next year.  He needs to go, Eriksson, his agent, TG and JB all know this.  Pretty hard to come back especially with how the fans have reacted also.  If he is here it will not be good for anyone.  If he is Canucks property it better be in Utica.

I agree with what you’re saying, but we might not have a choice (in terms of moving him in a scenario that is desirable for us and avoiding those 4 scenarios that I talked about in the previous post).   I also do believe that Eriksson’s comments during the World’s were blown out of proportion.   Eriksson and Green don’t see eye to eye, but all of these guys’ are professional.....and I don’t think the situation is nearly as toxic as people are making it out to be.  Just my opinion though.   

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Don't get me wrong - I love Gaudette, but I'm speaking more from the perspective that in order to receive a good young piece, you have to give up something of value as well.    

 

The Canucks seem to be very set down the middle.   Horvat and Pettersson should be here for the next 10+ years, while someone like Madden could very easily be in Gaudette's current spot not too far down the road.    Furthermore, it's not too difficult to get 3rd line Centers via trade and/or UFA if the Canucks ever found themselves lacking here.

 

I just personally feel that our defense needs another young piece that has a legit shot of growing into a Top 4 guy.   

 

If I'm being completely honest with you, I'd actually even consider packaging BOTH Gaudette and Madden if it meant landing a young significant defensive piece (I was actually close to making a thread revolving around THAT idea but decided not to pursue it because it was a little too unrealistic/impractical).     

 

The Canucks do have a lot of defensive prospects in the pipeline, but none of them  (outside of Hughes) are screaming, "I'm very likely to be a GOOD top 4 calibre guy" right now.   I'm seeing a lot of solid 3rd pairing Ben Huttonish  kind of guys (maybe some Troy Stecher calibre guys) that wouldn't look out of place playing on a 2nd pairing, but I'm just not seeing any guy that would be a GOOD or upper echelon 2nd pairing guy.     It's not an issue right now, but it could become a major issue over these next two years as we ponder the idea of moving on from Edler and Tanev.

Sure but now you're basically talking about a good hockey trade, which Jim should always be considering. 

 

We also don't quite know what we have in Gaudette, we might be trading s guy too early. 

 

Jim's re-tooled the top 6 and there's going to be 3 new regulars in the d group already. 

 

I dunno, I'd be concerned about moving Gaudette unless it was for a pretty spectacular return. 

[hockeygod77]

gaudette out of all jims drafting he is the one that may be diamond in the rough..nobody knows until it happens..

[Borvat]

3 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

I agree with what you’re saying, but we might not have a choice (in terms of moving him in a scenario that is desirable for us and avoiding those 4 scenarios that I talked about in the previous post).   I also do believe that Eriksson’s comments during the World’s were blown out of proportion.   Eriksson and Green don’t see eye to eye, but all of these guys’ are professional.....and I don’t think the situation is nearly as toxic as people are making it out to be.  Just my opinion though.   

Well his agent was on the radio and stated unequivocally it would be best for everyone involved if Eriksson was moved.  Doesn't get much plainer than that. 

 

It has also been reported the Canucks have had tentative deals in place and Eriksson wouldn't waive.  These are facts not comments blown out of proportion.  

 

He doesn't want to be here and the Canucks don't want him here.  Not ideal or realistic in my opinion for him to stay and not be a distraction especially with the Canucks making all the moves to improve and push for the playoffs.  He has to go even if it means Utica - from my perspective anyways.

[J.I.A.H.N]

IMO. Gaudette is a question mark right now

 

He has plenty of upside, and has shown some development, but it is too early to anoint his one way or another

 

The risk / reward, is to wait until he has shown to what extent his development slots him in as

 

Basically, if he develops into a solid, 3rd line center at an early age, then sure, you can possibly trade him for a young defenseman of similar abilities

 

But it is too early, to get the value you want, and as others have suggested, we have a decent amount of young defensemen to evaluate,

 

prior to giving up such a great asset...…...in short, I do not think we are trading from strength at this point, as Gaudette has not shown enough

 

IMO, we should just ride it out a while to see how things turn out....aka, Tryamkin, Juolevi, Woo etc...…..

 

Hopefully, Jimbo drafts some more defenseman next year, if they are around our draft position, I think you are right in you can never have enough Defensive prospects.

 

But, I would wait and see how things evolve a little first...……….

[Schmautzie]

I think Gaudette is a legitimate “cant miss” prospect. He does, however, appear to be stuck in the Canucks system behind Pettersson and Horvat and the probably immovable contracts of Sutter and Beagle.

 

I’m not sure how the Islanders are stacked up for Centres but I would do a Gaudette for Noah Dobson deal. I would even include Chris Tanev as a sweetener.

 

 

[Nucker 67]

"the award" aside, I don't believe Gaudette has a whole lot of value (yet). He's a 5th rounder who's developing well. I think he could be a good 3rd line player for the Canucks down the road. What's that worth? 

[Elias Pettersson]

6 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Out of those guys you mentioned, how many are projecting to be top 4 dmen?   Stecher currently plays in the top 4, but is he really what you’d consider a GOOD Top 4 dman?

So if we trade Gaudette for another yound D prospect how do you know that player will project to a top 4 Dman as well?  There is no sure bet.  The guy we trade for could be even worse than our current prospects.  So again I'd rather just keep our Hobey Baker winner Gaudette and see what happens.