aGENT Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, theo5789 said: My only issue with this is who of those 4 would you put in a PK role should our regulars go down (we have seen recently after losing Motte and potentially Beagle, Sutter is fragile, presumably we want to keep Miller and Horvat in offensive situations more and not wear them down). I think Schaller still provides depth in an area that is important. All four of those guys are in a similar situation and almost is too much depth. Unfortunately Leivo is hurt as he would've been the one that I would've moved out for a low pick as we are unlikely able to fit him in next season as well. MacEwen is likely the next guy in line for PK IMO, but he is raw at the NHL level and is certainly a downgrade atm to Schaller. Hard to say depending on who, if anyone, Benning brings in at the same time as potentially shipping guys out. But we have a large pool of players who can, do, or potentially can, pk. And I'm by no means suggesting moving all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, WHL rocks said: @aGENT Now you just wanna trade Schaller and replace him with Bailey?. What will you get for Schaller ... a 7th rounder ?. most likely future considerations??. Lol. Now Stecher gets traded in summer... Leivo Sutter are off youre trade board?. Ya.. youre all over the place. You went from wanting to trade Leivo Baer Schaller Sutter Stecher... To Trading Schaller replacing him with Bailey.. Ok. Why would you do that. What purpose does that serve?. You're not getting anything of value for Schaller. Bailey can be called up from minors if needed. Schaller is much better than Bailey on the NHL roster. What goals are you trying to achieve by trading Schaller and replacing him with Bailey? No, I'm really not. It's a list of guys I'd potentially look at moving. Would depend on the returns and other potential moves etc. Sorry if you're having trouble keeping up with all the moving parts. What goals? Clear cap, add a late pick, clear a depth spot for Bailey if you feel he's ready etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, aGENT said: Hard to say depending on who, if anyone, Benning brings in at the same time as potentially shipping guys out. But we have a large pool of players who can, do, or potentially can, pk. And I'm by no means suggesting moving all of them. I think it's unlikely we will be bringing in guys. I can see us trying to off load some players to create roster/cap space, but not at the cost of the best possible chance in the playoffs should we make it. This is why I can't see us trading Schaller unless of course he asks to be moved. I could see Leivo go on a conditioning stint (if he isn't back early enough to try and trade him) hopefully to extend the time long enough where the roster limits are lifted I believe after the trade deadline. Don't know the math involved though if we can fit all this under the cap this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, theo5789 said: I think it's unlikely we will be bringing in guys. By bringing in, I mean by potentially moving solid, younger pieces in an upgrade/package or F for D scenario etc. Hockey trades. I doubt we're renting any vets of significance at the TDL. 16 minutes ago, theo5789 said: I can see us trying to off load some players to create roster/cap space, but not at the cost of the best possible chance in the playoffs should we make it. This is exactly what I think is most likely to happen (hence the 'trim the fat' comment). We can move out guys like Schaller or Baer (assuming we'd need to retain/potentially add assets for him) from the periphery, without sacrificing playoffs and trim some cap. Also why, if we are to move Stecher (unless for the aforementioned upgrade), it's most likely for his rights in the summer. But I'd still kick tires on moving/packaging him for the right return. Sutter would largely fall under the same category (albeit with lesser trade value due to his age/injury history/cap etc). Anybody going to complain if a couple of these guys get moved for a legit 2nd pair D with size for example? A guy who would not only help with a playoff run but would also insulate against Tanev walking this summer AND give us more leverage in negotiations with him? Didn't think so Edited January 31, 2020 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, aGENT said: By bringing in, I mean by potentially moving solid, younger pieces in an upgrade/package or F for D scenario etc. Hockey trades. I doubt we're renting any vets of significance at the TDL. This is exactly what I think is most likely to happen (hence the 'trim the fat' comment). We can move out guys like Schaller or Baer (assuming we'd need to retain/potentially add assets for him) from the periphery, without sacrificing playoffs and trim some cap. Also why, if we are to move Stecher (unless for the aforementioned upgrade), it's most likely for his rights in the summer. But I'd still kick tires on moving/packaging him for the right return. Sutter would largely fall under the same category (albeit with lesser trade value due to his age/injury history/cap etc). Anybody going to complain if a couple of these guys get moved for a legit 2nd pair D with size for example? A guy who would not only help with a playoff run but would also insulate against Tanev walking this summer AND give us more leverage in negotiations with him? Didn't think so A legit 2nd pairing guy with size isn't going to be acquired with what we are trying to sell (I haven't been following the conversation you are having with the other posters, but I'm assuming we are taking about Stecher, Schaller, Baertschi, etc). Our best bet at this is bringing back Tryamkin. I believe Benning has already said he isn't moving the younger assets at this point until he has a clearer picture of what we have in this current team. So I agree with trimming the fat, but who's buying and does it hurt our chances of giving the best run possible? I'm not trading Stecher unless we know Tryamkin is returning and I'm not trading Schaller unless we have a reasonable depth replacement for the PK in which Ferland, Leivo, Bailey and MacEwen all unfortunately do not provide at the same level currently. Perhaps they can be worked on, but that will be an offseason/preseason project where Schaller stays and simply we let walk as UFA which is no big deal (if all we are looking at is a 7th round pick in return anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I'm reading Cujo's book. Really laughed when he explained how he ended up in TO from Edmonton. He thought he was headed to Philly as a UFA. His agent Donnie Mehan lived in the same neighborhood of TO as Kenny Dryden the Laffers GM of that time. Both of them head to the corner store for icecream and bump into one another. The ensuing convo leads Dryden to thinking about Cujo and they get the call. 4 year deal at $6 mil/season. Love that story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, theo5789 said: A legit 2nd pairing guy with size isn't going to be acquired with what we are trying to sell (I haven't been following the conversation you are having with the other posters, but I'm assuming we are taking about Stecher, Schaller, Baertschi, etc). Our best bet at this is bringing back Tryamkin. Potentially Stecher + Virtanen? Maybe add in a decent 'B' prospect? I think you could acquire a solid 2nd pair guy (if not expiring FA/borderline 1st pair) guy for something like that. And again: Quote Now don't confuse that for me suggesting we should or have to trade Virtanen. I'm perfectly happy to keep him now that he's meeting his draft expectations. But Benning's not doing his job if he doesn't look at a potential move in that general premise/framework. I'm not suggesting we could package Baer and Schaller for a top 4 D. That's ridiculous. They would be 'fat trimming' (and in Baer's case may even cost retention and/or other assets). Though a guy already stashed in the AHL who's shown he can play at the NHL level is hardly a poor deadline/injury insurance pickup. His hitch is his 1 year term remaining. Retaining could solve a lot of that concern though. Benning can/should/will also be looking at potential hockey trades though as well IMO involving any of Stecher, Virtanen, Sutter etc. 20 minutes ago, theo5789 said: where Schaller stays and simply we let walk as UFA which is no big deal (if all we are looking at is a 7th round pick in return anyway). This ignores what benefit clearing that cap and roster space might have though. If Benning truly believes a guy like Bailey is ready (and he'll likely get some practices and perhaps a game or two with this call up, to find out), moving Schaller out may make sense. It may also help with us having to carry less potential bonus overages in to next year as well (plus adding a late pick, WTH not?) Edited January 31, 2020 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 19 minutes ago, aGENT said: Potentially Stecher + Virtanen? Maybe add in a decent 'B' prospect? I think you could acquire a solid 2nd pair guy (if not expiring FA/borderline 1st pair) guy for something like that. And again: But Benning's not doing his job if he doesn't look at a potential move in that general premise/framework. I'm not suggesting we could package Baer and Schaller for a top 4 D. That's ridiculous. They would be 'fat trimming' (and in Baer's case may even cost retention and/or other assets). Though a guy already stashed in the AHL who's shown he can play at the NHL level is hardly a poor deadline/injury insurance pickup. His hitch is his 1 year term remaining. Retaining could solve a lot of that concern though. Benning can/should/will also be looking at potential hockey trades though as well IMO involving any of Stecher, Virtanen, Sutter etc. This ignores what benefit clearing that cap and roster space might have though. If Benning truly believes a guy like Bailey is ready (and he'll likely get some practices and perhaps a game or two with this call up, to find out), moving Schaller out may make sense. It may also help with us having to carry less potential bonus overages in to next year as well (plus adding a late pick, WTH not?) Unless the concern with Virtanen is that he will be asking too much on his next contract, there is no real reason to move him. It also goes against what Benning has suggested about chemistry of the team. Of course if there is a deal that could bolster our team, then sure, but that will be an offseason decision surely. Many of us have been wanting to see what Virtanen can do in the playoffs. This could very well help us decide how to move forward with Jake. Now of course this doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but moving out two BC boys in a deal is not going to be good optics lol. I have no problem moving out Baertschi. We have depth coverage for him in Bailey, Goldy, Perron, Lind, etc. The only sticking point of moving Schaller is what I've been saying all along. If we lose Motte, Beagle or whichever PKer, who draws in? We take away from the top 6 by moving Miller and/or Horvat into that role? It hurts our depth for playoff hopes. I believe roster limits are lifted after the trade deadline and correct me if I'm wrong that we would only be saving a pro-rated amount of his cap of just under 500k. If we are that close to the cap where 500k makes or breaks us next season, then I guess that's where it adds value in moving him rather than keeping his value to us on a potential playoff drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 5 hours ago, Boudrias said: This roster needs playoff experience but Benning should not be buying talent. He should be using his prospects if needed. Talks of acquiring another top 6 forward is highly counterproductive when you consider the cost. I said last spring that the team would make playoffs this year and stand by that. That said serious CUP contention is 2-3 years out. Build towards that by developing the prospect pool. I know that JB said he might be looking for another top 6 forward before the real emergence of Jake Virtanen on the 1st line. However, has there even been any talk from JB since that time? If so, I certainly have not heard it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, WHL rocks said: Schaller Baer Leivo Stecher Sutter Lol thats more than all our depth. You get rid of all those players canucks might not make the playoffs. They definetely dont win the division. JB not going to do anything remotely close to this. Totally agree. Of those five names above, Sutter and Stecher have made a strong positive difference on this team. When Sutter is on the fourth line it is just that much better. He could also be used up in the line up if needed. Stecher is quite solid. I don't think he goes anywhere unless they make quite an upgrade on RD such as a Dumba type move. That doesn't happen without giving up something substantial. I think Baer could be moved but as you say, if a top forward goes down he could be brought in as a fill in. Schaller could and maybe should be moved for cap reasons. Leivo probably does not have much trade value at the moment due to injury and he could be a very good backup player if someone gets injured. Edited January 31, 2020 by Kanukfanatic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, theo5789 said: Unless the concern with Virtanen is that he will be asking too much on his next contract, there is no real reason to move him. It also goes against what Benning has suggested about chemistry of the team. Of course if there is a deal that could bolster our team, then sure, but that will be an offseason decision surely. Many of us have been wanting to see what Virtanen can do in the playoffs. This could very well help us decide how to move forward with Jake. Now of course this doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things but moving out two BC boys in a deal is not going to be good optics lol. Again, I'm no way suggesting we need/have to/should move Virtanen. But if the right deal comes along...I'd sure look awful hard at it. I mean an expiring RFA top 4 D would sure be a nice add for example... And again, a lot of that will depend on many other moving parts. How much faith do they have in Ferland coming back and PLAYING? How does Bailey do on this call up (not that he can replace 'top 6 Virtanen' but Boeser can and Ferland/Bailey perhaps replace '3rd line Virtanen'). I have little concern for 'optics' and Benning thankfully doesn't appear to either 22 minutes ago, theo5789 said: If we lose Motte, Beagle or whichever PKer, who draws in? Assuming Virtanen stays, I nominate him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, aGENT said: No, I'm really not. It's a list of guys I'd potentially look at moving. Would depend on the returns and other potential moves etc. Sorry if you're having trouble keeping up with all the moving parts. What goals? Clear cap, add a late pick, clear a depth spot for Bailey if you feel he's ready etc. A the moving parts? What is this Trade deadline day and you are sitting with JB in rhe war room managing all the moving parts? Lol In 2 hours you went from wanting to trade all our depth on a division leading team... 3 NHL forwardd Sutter Schaller Leivo. AHL forwad Baer Nhl top 6 dman Stecher To just trading schaller tp replace him with Bailey Ya i am having a hard time keeping up with what youre selling.. Talk to you on TDL day. Im sure you'll remind me IF JB sells off several NHL roster players in 3 weeks.. That would be the end of his GM job in Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 21 minutes ago, aGENT said: Again, I'm no way suggesting we need/have to/should move Virtanen. But if the right deal comes along...I'd sure look awful hard at it. I mean an expiring RFA top 4 D would sure be a nice add for example... And again, a lot of that will depend on many other moving parts. How much faith do they have in Ferland coming back and PLAYING? How does Bailey do on this call up (not that he can replace 'top 6 Virtanen' but Boeser can and Ferland/Bailey perhaps replace '3rd line Virtanen'). I have little concern for 'optics' and Benning thankfully doesn't appear to either Assuming Virtanen stays, I nominate him I'm not opposed to a deal for the same reason as you mentioned, but it would be an offseason move if so rather than a trade deadline deal. Unless it's a deal that can't be passed up (which again is unlikely to happen at the TDL anyway). I doubt they are going to have a good enough gauge on Bailey in potentially a brief time up if he even draws into the lineup (I think Schaller is in and only one of Bailey or MacEwen on the 4th line, which MacEwen is better suited for) to make such a big decision like moving Virtanen who is finally blossoming and may finally have a chance to see how he performs in the playoffs. The only moves I see happening are the "trim the fat" deals, but there needs to be willing takers. Schaller may have value, but for the same reasons why we would value him. Virtanen hasn't seen a lick of PK time this year and suddenly he's ready for it should someone go down? (Although I agree that he should start getting some reps there in the future, but perhaps after his contract extension as he doesn't need more ammo to up his value ) Right now, it's pretty obvious that it's Miller/Horvat/Pearson are the guys drawing into the PK when injuries happen. Motte, Beagle, Sutter, Eriksson are the primary PK guys (Schaller is amongst the top when he's in the lineup). If we are looking at the playoffs seriously, having Schaller is more valuable than a 7th round pick and minimal cap space. A team needs to buy Schaller from us rather than us sell him (eg I'll take a 3rd round pick to pry him off us at this point). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Bailey is almost 25. He couldn't even stick on a 4th line on 2 other teams Philly and BUF. Hes not going ti all of a sudden be a legit 3rd liner for us. We have a deep team. Hes not beating out legit NHLers at this time. He might get 1 or 2 games look see on the 4th line just to guage how he does in case injuries later on in season or in playoffs. Hes not making this team on the 3rd line full time. Not even on the 4th line. Hes getting rewarded with callup because of his hot streak in Utica. Hes not a long term stay with the big club right now. He'll have a chance to fight for a spot next season when some of our Ufas walk in summer and we fill cpl spots with Utica players to start next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, WHL rocks said: In 2 hours you went from wanting to trade all our depth on a division leading team... Nope. Continuing to straw man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, aGENT said: Nope. Continuing to straw man. On 1/26/2020 at 1:07 PM, aGENT said: Hoping to see some fat trimming. Move out the likes of Schaller... and Baer if we can find a taker (even with a small add/retention). Maybe even Leivo (if he's healthy in time) or Stecher (assuming we plan to keep Tanev). Hell I'd even kick tires in Sutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 40 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said: I know that JB said he might be looking for another top 6 forward before the real emergence of Jake Virtanen on the 1st line. However, has there even been any talk from JB since that time? If so, I certainly have not heard it. He had been recently interviewed and said that he wants to see what this group can do. In other words, he's backed off the looking for another top 6 forward talk (although that could've motivational talk to the guys internally that there is still room to grow). Also I think with LE finding a nice niche right now has also allowed us to back away from looking to add. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, WHL rocks said: 4 hours ago, aGENT said: I also never suggested we'd be getting rid of ALL of them either. Shop all, move some. It also ignores what might be coming back. 2 hours ago, aGENT said: No, I'm really not. It's a list of guys I'd potentially look at moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, WHL rocks said: I think he's suggesting which players he's okay with moving (one or two to clear up space), not suggesting he'd move all of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, theo5789 said: I'm not opposed to a deal for the same reason as you mentioned, but it would be an offseason move if so rather than a trade deadline deal. Unless it's a deal that can't be passed up (which again is unlikely to happen at the TDL anyway). Could certainly be. I'm simply not wed to it being only off season. Again, I'm not saying it's certain or even likely. If nothing else, starting conversations now can lead to those off season deals emerging. I'm simply stating that he will be looking and having those conversations. And personally I'd be open to it at the TDL if the right deal came along. 14 minutes ago, theo5789 said: The only moves I see happening are the "trim the fat" deals, but there needs to be willing takers. Schaller may have value, but for the same reasons why we would value him. A team without a Ferland and Leivo already in the background likely values Schaller higher than we do. Edited January 31, 2020 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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