[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Pittsburgh Penguins | Nov. 27, 2019

[J.I.A.H.N]

What a garbage PGT

 

Most of you will be back on the band wagon with the next win...…..

 

This is a story of a  young talented team in transition people.....

 

Get use to it, for a year or two.

[ericisinfinity@hotmail.com]

27 minutes ago, J-23 said:

Yup, would rather have him in the top 6 rn. On a hot streak. Not sure why people on this forum already want to set him as our 3C. Like let’s see how good this kid can get, he is still young.

Because any young offensive players go to die with sutter at C.

Let's look at the points & play when gaudette is in the centre position... Now compare to his games on wing... He's a better centerman and it makes the team better when Sutter who is a good veteran but he sucks ass as an offensive Center. Proofs in the numbers people.

This team needs to play with the focus on 3 offensive lines. Sutter can still provide defensive stability playing from the wing.

[*Buzzsaw*]

I know a lot of people are pissed off with the result of this game, but from my perpective, it was a step forward.

 

What I liked:

 

The team started to ignore Green's dump and chase system and started to focus on entering the O-Zone in possession.

 

Everyone of the Canuck's even strength goals were a result of a Canuck entering the zone in possession of the puck and then making a pass to an open Canuck.

 

This was all jumpstarted by Quinn Hughes, I think he got mad after the first period...  when the team was going nowhere using a dump and chase... everytime they got possession, which was seldom, they immediately dumped the puck into the Pen's zone, which just gave it back and the Pen's went at the Canucks again.

 

In the second, Quinn took matters into his own hands.... first goal was directly a result him taking the bit between his teeth and driving into the zone... and then making a great pass to Miller who continued his hot streak.  Second goal was him again... he sprung Pettersson who was able to enter in possession, a quick give and go later, puck is in the net after one of Petey's patented rockets... Give Pettersson a chance to take a shot on the rush and he usually buries it.  Third goal was not Hughes making, but the team was taking a cue from his efforts... this started with another good pass, this time from Tanev, then MacEwen, who feathered one through to Virtanen.  Fourth goal originally started with a zone entry, then good sustained pressure gave the goal.  5th goal was a PP... Miller was a little lucky, but he hammered it as soon as it came to him so good shot.  6th goal was a result of a turnover in the neutral zone, Pearson then entered the zone in possession, dished off to Guadette who made a nice move and shot.

 

None of the goals were a result of dump and chase.

 

What I didn't like:

 

-  Demko had his first bad game... why he was started in place of Markstrom I don't know.  Yeah Demko had a good game vs Philly, but I don't think he is ready for the grind of multiple games.  Let him put the game in the bag and give him a rest.  Mistake by Green.

 

-  Green waited till the game was tied to use his timeout...   WTF>????  You use your timeout BEFORE you lose the lead... not after they tie it.  Poor decision not to take the timeout after the Pens made it 6-5.

 

-  Then Green gambles on the offside when it was obvious Malkin was in control of the puck when he entered...  and as a result... the Canucks wasted two minutes of their precious time left to tie the game.  Another poor decision.

 

-  Green gives Goldobin exactly 3 shifts with Pettersson, barely enough time to warm up.... before he goes to someone else and dumps Goldy on the third or fourth line, or makes him ride the bench. (8:37 total)  This is despite the fact he had a good game with two scoring opportunities which he manufactured, one good setup, two good defensive plays, one hit, and NO giveaways or major lapses.  But no, Green doesn't really want to give him a chance... he prefers not to reverse his Training Camp decision rather than see if Goldy can perform.

 

Hoping the team continues to ignore Green's coaching and we see some more creative plays from them.

[Junkyard Dog]

1 hour ago, coolboarder said:

 

We gain experience by stopping them the second large leads.  Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.   We lost to Washington at home with a large lead and now we lose again when we had a 6-goal output and yet lost 8 goals.  That's on coaching with inability to slow things down or coach them by keying on Malkin.   Hate to say it, it's on Green, and has nothing to with gaining experience for young players.  Veterans team blew leads many times before and it's nothing new under the sun.  The theme here is inability to get a better start, we have had slow starts too many times for my liking and blown leads or tied into late of 3rd and still blow leads is nothing new.  A better coach would have adjust on the fly from minute to minute, rather than from goal to goal.   Green is not even adjusting goal by goal, it's game by game.  That's what Green is right now. 

 

If he is hired for other team, he would have learnt to adjust after having time for some reflection and since this is his first job, he is stubborn and afraid to change anything because he has not experience firing yet to make himself a good coach.  Every coach has been fired before and became a better coach for his 2nd or 3rd team.     I do not doubt that Green will be a good coach but is not right one for this team because his lack of adjustment is undoing his work.   If we want to see Canucks to growth as a team further, we make a coaching change.  This is not a case of change for the sake of changing to save GM's job.  Benning has been doing wonderful job with the roster and we can see this clearly.  This is a case of saving the team from derailing mentally.   

What lineup is that more likely to happen against? Is a collapse gonna happen to?

 

A soft depleted lineup that lacks any sort of grit or defensive forwards. A line that requires our AHLers and young guys like Gaudette and Virtanen to step up tremendously defensively in order to help out the D against someone like Malkin who was on fire. Or a healthy lineup that doesn't lack any grit or defensive play? A lineup that had our PK top 5, gave up less than 3 goals a game before Washington, was strong on the puck, could close out games more consistently and had a 4th line playing out of their minds before Motte got hurt.

 

Simply put, I am not going to completely judge Green when he's icing an incomplete lineup. It's way too premature. I am not saying Green's without faults but to say he is more of a problem then the injuries to our bottom 6 is downright wrong.

 

Give him a healthy lineup then see if he can get it winning or not then judge him. I'll be on board with you if he fails with a healthy lineup that doesn't lack grit or defensive play.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Junkyard Dog

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, iinatcc said:

But didn't here people say the GM's moves this offseason was a success? 

What moves this offseason weren't a success? Miller looks unbelievable. Ferland is injured, but was picking it up prior to his injury. Myers was a much needed top 4 dman.

[xereau]

This has been on the top of my #Canucks feed on twitter for a while.

 

Man, could we use a healthy version of this guy coming up the pipe in the next 2 years.

 

He is the heir apparent to Alex Edler, and he still hopefully can be when he gets healthy.

Anyways, maybe if you guys have twitter, you can forward this to him and a bunch of times so he knows he's a big part of the future.

 

 

He was great in Utica before he got hurt.

 

Saw him in Penticton and he was an effortless skater and really efficient with the puck.

 

He's not flashy, but he's a smart puck mover. Awesome in junior and internationally too.

 

He's still a very important part to Benning's overall build.

I still have high hopes for him.

Edited November 28, 2019 by xereau

[Kushman]

3 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

I know a lot of people are pissed off with the result of this game, but from my perpective, it was a step forward.

 

What I liked:

 

The team started to ignore Green's dump and chase system and started to focus on entering the O-Zone in possession.

 

Everyone of the Canuck's even strength goals were a result of a Canuck entering the zone in possession of the puck and then making a pass to an open Canuck.

 

This was all jumpstarted by Quinn Hughes, I think he got mad after the first period...  when the team was going nowhere using a dump and chase... everytime they got possession, which was seldom, they immediately dumped the puck into the Pen's zone, which just gave it back and the Pen's went at the Canucks again.

 

In the second, Quinn took matters into his own hands.... first goal was directly a result him taking the bit between his teeth and driving into the zone... and then making a great pass to Miller who continued his hot streak.  Second goal was him again... he sprung Pettersson who was able to enter in possession, a quick give and go later, puck is in the net after one of Petey's patented rockets... Give Pettersson a chance to take a shot on the rush and he usually buries it.  Third goal was not Hughes making, but the team was taking a cue from his efforts... this started with another good pass, this time from Tanev, then MacEwen, who feathered one through to Virtanen.  Fourth goal originally started with a zone entry, then good sustained pressure gave the goal.  5th goal was a PP... Miller was a little lucky, but he hammered it as soon as it came to him so good shot.  6th goal was a result of a turnover in the neutral zone, Pearson then entered the zone in possession, dished off to Guadette who made a nice move and shot.

 

None of the goals were a result of dump and chase.

 

What I didn't like:

 

-  Demko had his first bad game... why he was started in place of Markstrom I don't know.  Yeah Demko had a good game vs Philly, but I don't think he is ready for the grind of multiple games.  Let him put the game in the bag and give him a rest.  Mistake by Green.

 

-  Green waited till the game was tied to use his timeout...   WTF>????  You use your timeout BEFORE you lose the lead... not after they tie it.  Poor decision not to take the timeout after the Pens made it 6-5.

 

-  Then Green gambles on the offside when it was obvious Malkin was in control of the puck when he entered...  and as a result... the Canucks wasted two minutes of their precious time left to tie the game.  Another poor decision.

 

-  Green gives Goldobin exactly 3 shifts with Pettersson, barely enough time to warm up.... before he goes to someone else and dumps Goldy on the third or fourth line, or makes him ride the bench. (8:37 total)  This is despite the fact he had a good game with two scoring opportunities which he manufactured, one good setup, two good defensive plays, one hit, and NO giveaways or major lapses.  But no, Green doesn't really want to give him a chance... he prefers not to reverse his Training Camp decision rather than see if Goldy can perform.

 

Hoping the team continues to ignore Green's coaching and we see some more creative plays from them.

The only part that I don't fault Green on is starting Demko. Apparently marky felt I'll this morning and that was the reason they changed it up. Marky was originally set to start tonight. 

 

Besides that. Yes to everything.

As soon as the team stopped playing dump and chase, they started creating chances.

 

Zero sense why goldobin gets benched after a couple shifts when he was actually one of the few decent players for Vancouver in that atrocious first period. Jake has a beast second period and then pretty much rides the pine in the third?

 

Green has failed to use timeouts consistently. I was yelling timeout by 6-4. That third period was one of the worst I've seen from Green, just poor decision after poor decision.

 

Unfortunately i think we are stuck with him until the end of the year. Doubt that coach ghandi has any Peters like skeletons in his closet.

[CptCanuck16]

17 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

The team started to ignore Green's dump and chase system and started to focus on entering the O-Zone in possession

When they came out and actually started playing decent in the 2nd after such a dismal 1st I caught myself thinking "wow, maybe Green does know how to make in game adjustments after all. He realized the status quo wasn't working so he changed strategy between periods."    I like your theory better though, that it had nothing to do with Green and was instead the players taking matters into their own hands. 

[theo5789]

16 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

I know a lot of people are pissed off with the result of this game, but from my perpective, it was a step forward.

 

What I liked:

 

The team started to ignore Green's dump and chase system and started to focus on entering the O-Zone in possession.

 

Everyone of the Canuck's even strength goals were a result of a Canuck entering the zone in possession of the puck and then making a pass to an open Canuck.

 

This was all jumpstarted by Quinn Hughes, I think he got mad after the first period...  when the team was going nowhere using a dump and chase... everytime they got possession, which was seldom, they immediately dumped the puck into the Pen's zone, which just gave it back and the Pen's went at the Canucks again.

 

In the second, Quinn took matters into his own hands.... first goal was directly a result him taking the bit between his teeth and driving into the zone... and then making a great pass to Miller who continued his hot streak.  Second goal was him again... he sprung Pettersson who was able to enter in possession, a quick give and go later, puck is in the net after one of Petey's patented rockets... Give Pettersson a chance to take a shot on the rush and he usually buries it.  Third goal was not Hughes making, but the team was taking a cue from his efforts... this started with another good pass, this time from Tanev, then MacEwen, who feathered one through to Virtanen.  Fourth goal originally started with a zone entry, then good sustained pressure gave the goal.  5th goal was a PP... Miller was a little lucky, but he hammered it as soon as it came to him so good shot.  6th goal was a result of a turnover in the neutral zone, Pearson then entered the zone in possession, dished off to Guadette who made a nice move and shot.

 

None of the goals were a result of dump and chase.

 

What I didn't like:

 

-  Demko had his first bad game... why he was started in place of Markstrom I don't know.  Yeah Demko had a good game vs Philly, but I don't think he is ready for the grind of multiple games.  Let him put the game in the bag and give him a rest.  Mistake by Green.

 

-  Green waited till the game was tied to use his timeout...   WTF>????  You use your timeout BEFORE you lose the lead... not after they tie it.  Poor decision not to take the timeout after the Pens made it 6-5.

 

-  Then Green gambles on the offside when it was obvious Malkin was in control of the puck when he entered...  and as a result... the Canucks wasted two minutes of their precious time left to tie the game.  Another poor decision.

 

-  Green gives Goldobin exactly 3 shifts with Pettersson, barely enough time to warm up.... before he goes to someone else and dumps Goldy on the third or fourth line, or makes him ride the bench. (8:37 total)  This is despite the fact he had a good game with two scoring opportunities which he manufactured, one good setup, two good defensive plays, one hit, and NO giveaways or major lapses.  But no, Green doesn't really want to give him a chance... he prefers not to reverse his Training Camp decision rather than see if Goldy can perform.

 

Hoping the team continues to ignore Green's coaching and we see some more creative plays from them.

The team has been playing entry with possession for a while now. The PP has shown this back several games ago. Why is the assumption that the players are ignoring the system rather than the coaching staff asking the team to try something different?

 

The team generated nothing for the first 10 minutes of the game which included Goldobin on the top line. Green shuffles things up and we get 6 goals. He plays Virtanen a ton seeing that he's engaged in this game and he responded.

 

The offside call was really down to the refs interpretation. If they had decided Malkin wasn't in control then we save ourselves the time to try to tie the game up and give ourselves another timeout to slow the momentum. It didn't work out, but it would've been a smart decision had it worked.

 

We scored 6 goals tonight. The purpose of Goldobin was for offense and we didn't need him tonight. We struggled defensively and Goldy likely wasn't going to help us in this area so it's all moot anyway. Green gave him a golden opportunity with the top line and it was up to him to take it and run, he didn't.

[DS4quality]

25 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

What a garbage PGT

 

Most of you will be back on the band wagon with the next win...…..

 

This is a story of a  young talented team in transition people.....

 

Get use to it, for a year or two.

There's no bandwagon, if we win the next game, so what? 

Colorado is a young talented team and they win. 

Glad you're ok with the status quo, but don't go harping on the fans who realize change is needed if this team is going to win. 

Prove me wrong Travis Green... 3  years in and Willie is starting to look real gud

 

[*Buzzsaw*]

3 minutes ago, CptCanuck16 said:

When they came out and actually started playing decent in the 2nd after such a dismal 1st I caught myself thinking "wow, maybe Green does know how to make in game adjustments after all. He realized the status quo wasn't working so he changed strategy between periods."    I like your theory better though, that it had nothing to do with Green and was instead the players taking matters into their own hands. 

Quinn Hughes has been rushing the puck on his own since the season started... the problem is, he normally gets no support.

 

Tonight he did get support on the first goal when he pushed the rush into the zone.

 

For the second goal, normally the players just deflect long passes like Quinn made to Pettersson into the zone... this time Pettersson took the pass and kept moving.

 

For the PP goal, Quinn took the puck into the zone, established it there and then the play developed.

[*Buzzsaw*]

5 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

The team has been playing entry with possession for a while now. The PP has shown this back several games ago. Why is the assumption that the players are ignoring the system rather than the coaching staff asking the team to try something different?

 

The team generated nothing for the first 10 minutes of the game which included Goldobin on the top line. Green shuffles things up and we get 6 goals. He plays Virtanen a ton seeing that he's engaged in this game and he responded.

 

The offside call was really down to the refs interpretation. If they had decided Malkin wasn't in control then we save ourselves the time to try to tie the game up and give ourselves another timeout to slow the momentum. It didn't work out, but it would've been a smart decision had it worked.

 

We scored 6 goals tonight. The purpose of Goldobin was for offense and we didn't need him tonight. We struggled defensively and Goldy likely wasn't going to help us in this area so it's all moot anyway. Green gave him a golden opportunity with the top line and it was up to him to take it and run, he didn't.

Three shifts is a 'Golden Opportunity'???

 

Hell, MacEwen got more ice time in the top six when he had his opportunity... he's still getting opportunities.

 

And Goldobin played well, he made no errors and generated chances... why not leave him in?  He made no defensive mistakes.

 

No, Green goes back to Leivo... who has proved he is nothing special.

[Nave]

I don't know if its the best time to fire Green, when we're still 3rd in the Pacific, and in a playoff spot. But, it's hard not to lose faith in the coaches after this one.

The 1st was hard to watch; the lines just did not work. Then after we shake things up, and take a 3 goal lead, Green inexplicably shortens the bench. Not calling a time out after the Penguins came within one was stupid.
 

That being said, I don't think the coach's challenge was as egregious as people are saying--it kind of looked like an offside. Green found some success in shaking the lines up after things weren't working. It was a high scoring game for both sides, and we just didn't play as well in the 1st and 3rd periods. Our players bear some of the responsibility. 

We're a young team in transition, and games like this are going to happen. Demko had his first bad game, but was solid in the first 2 periods. I support him playing his second straight game. I just hope our team starts to play better in front of him. Our defense outside of Hughes was horrible, and I think a lot of that was the pairings--they did not look comfortable together. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

5 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

There's no bandwagon, if we win the next game, so what? 

Colorado is a young talented team and they win. 

Glad you're ok with the status quo, but don't go harping on the fans who realize change is needed if this team is going to win. 

Prove me wrong Travis Green... 3  years in and Willie is starting to look real gud

 

Oh Brother!

Colorado is 2 to 3 years ahead of us, from when they started their rebuild

So, take it easy....lol

 

These young guys need some age and some experience. Pittsburgh has a very experienced team......

With Arguably one of the premier centers in the game, leading the way.

 

Just wait until everyone is back, and has a few game under their belt together

Pettersson was on for the last 3 goals......did you want someone else on then?

He has to get stronger, which will come, but it is a journey...……….

 

For every one.....

[J.I.A.H.N]

12 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Quinn Hughes has been rushing the puck on his own since the season started... the problem is, he normally gets no support.

 

Tonight he did get support on the first goal when he pushed the rush into the zone.

 

For the second goal, normally the players just deflect long passes like Quinn made to Pettersson into the zone... this time Pettersson took the pass and kept moving.

 

For the PP goal, Quinn took the puck into the zone, established it there and then the play developed.

Then there was the Miller post...same thing...………..grade A goals and chances 

[xereau]

 

The only one not on the brink of returning, is Tyler Motte.

 

Any one of them would make an incredible and immediate difference to the team.

 

Now that I think on it, with 5/12 of your starting forwards out mid/long term, its amazing that the team is treading water.

 

Still, today's loss was really embarrassing as a fan, so you know how the players must feel!

 

Anyways, 3/5 are imminent (Beagle, Sutter, Roussel), and should be be back this time next week at the latest.

 

Ferland was expected to be given the green light today to start practicing.

 

And Motte will be back in early/mid Dec.

 

That's a serious injection to the team.

[theo5789]

1 minute ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Three shifts is a 'Golden Opportunity'???

 

Hell, MacEwen got more ice time in the top six when he had his opportunity... he's still getting opportunities.

 

And Goldobin played well, he made no errors and generated chances... why not leave him in?  He made no defensive mistakes.

 

No, Green goes back to Leivo... who has proved he is nothing special.

Did you not see the team generate nothing for the first 10 minutes of the game? This was Goldobin's opportunity to redeem himself being called up and placed right into the 1st line. Nothing happened until the lineup was shook up. Goldobin wasn't needed tonight. He may still get chances in the future with more practices (since he just got called up and I was surprised he was even slotted into the lineup so soon). People expect Loui to play to another level whenever he's out there given that he's a healthy scratch more regularly now, but people criticize him for not doing so. Goldy didn't do anything to stand out either, so got the Loui 4th line treatment.

 

Funny you're still stuck on Leivo, just like the dump and chase thing which the team has been getting away from for the last few games actually. Leivo played 12:29 or in other words 3rd line minutes in which he was started as. He may have had a shift here and there, but wasn't the regular guy. The player that benefitted the most tonight was actually Virtanen who got 15+ minutes, but I guess you couldn't mention him because he actually was effective tonight. Many people were crying foul when he played under 10 minutes, but no one is praising Green for playing him more tonight, surprise surprise.

 

And to go back to your complaint about the dump and chase system. I guess you forgot that it was Miller who wanted at least for his line to play the dump and chase game. Seems like a player's decision and not just a coach's decision. We are out Ferland, Roussel and Motte who are all effective at retrieving the puck much like Miller is and all are out right now. Come playoff time, you will see the real benefit of this system as these players will either try to get behind the defenders or if the defenders try to play the puck, they will get hit and worn down in a playoff series. It's going to be a good thing to try and perfect it in the regular season.

[canuktravella]

 this loss is on coaching   the guy had no clue how to manage or change things in game situation like call a bloddy time out bud it isnt hard i feel like green has lost the room with the bad systems they have dump and shoot now they skate it in   green is skating on thin ice 

[*Buzzsaw*]

10 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Did you not see the team generate nothing for the first 10 minutes of the game? This was Goldobin's opportunity to redeem himself being called up and placed right into the 1st line. Nothing happened until the lineup was shook up. Goldobin wasn't needed tonight. He may still get chances in the future with more practices (since he just got called up and I was surprised he was even slotted into the lineup so soon). People expect Loui to play to another level whenever he's out there given that he's a healthy scratch more regularly now, but people criticize him for not doing so. Goldy didn't do anything to stand out either, so got the Loui 4th line treatment.

 

Funny you're still stuck on Leivo, just like the dump and chase thing which the team has been getting away from for the last few games actually. Leivo played 12:29 or in other words 3rd line minutes in which he was started as. He may have had a shift here and there, but wasn't the regular guy. The player that benefitted the most tonight was actually Virtanen who got 15+ minutes, but I guess you couldn't mention him because he actually was effective tonight. Many people were crying foul when he played under 10 minutes, but no one is praising Green for playing him more tonight, surprise surprise.

 

And to go back to your complaint about the dump and chase system. I guess you forgot that it was Miller who wanted at least for his line to play the dump and chase game. Seems like a player's decision and not just a coach's decision. We are out Ferland, Roussel and Motte who are all effective at retrieving the puck much like Miller is and all are out right now. Come playoff time, you will see the real benefit of this system as these players will either try to get behind the defenders or if the defenders try to play the puck, they will get hit and worn down in a playoff series. It's going to be a good thing to try and perfect it in the regular season.

No I didn't forget what he actually said... which was: 

 

"...SOMETIMES you have to simplify things."

 

Not everytime, not always... sometimes.

 

And you should know players don't set the coaching strategy... unless they are Sidney Crosby...  Coaches do.

 

Nobody is saying you should never Dump and Chase, but it shouldn't be your only choice.

 

Watch the Cup finals last year...   St Louis is not playing Dump and Chase.

 

And maybe you are forgetting who was on the end of the pass from Quinn Hughes on a play which was the opposite of Dump and Chase.  On that play does it look like Miller would have preferred to chase the puck in the corner?

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by *Buzzsaw*

[canuktravella]

Just now, canuktravella said:

 this loss is on coaching   the guy had no clue how to manage or change things in game situation like call a bloddy time out bud it isnt hard i feel like green has lost the room with the bad systems they have dump and shoot now they skate it in   green is skating on thin ice 

stop playing leivo  and brnching good players like goldobin  jake etcetc