Popular Post Nuxfanabroad Posted January 31, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) A little research on HFOttawa page has revealed a GEM/diamond plan to dance around our coming cap-conundrum. They have a player who was so promising, they signed for big $$$, & now he has spiraled. Because he's so young, his buyout-hit is a sweet song. Colin White. Signed 4.75 AAV(back loaded) for 5 more seasons. That's 20+ mill that EMelnyk would looove to dump. Due to his youth, you can stretch his buyout over EIGHT(or nine?) yrs for a meagre 817 k cap hit Van: LouiE AND Baertschi(pay Loui's bonus, he's only 5,000,000 owed/2 seasons, for a 6 mill AAV - Melnyk Special!) OTT: White, I'd argue we should get a cond 2021 2nd/3rd, for taking on an EXTRA(approx) 15,000,000 $ real $ commitment! Important point: You can ride this cheap buyout option for TWO more seasons(only 817 k), then it goes up to about 1.8 mill. If we bought him out after next season, you immediately open up 5 mill for the important 2021-22 season, where EP & QH need new deals. White: 2018-19 - 71 gp..41 pts(impressive, got a 6 yr doozy deal) 2019-20: 43 gp ..only 14 lousy pts! (rumour is he's struggling with similar injury to BSutter, groin/hernia) ********************************************* Lastly, OTT has a slew of young C's, so they can easily fill this bloke's spot. Also prob two top-10 picks this 2020(fwd heavy) draft. Bet they'd JUMP to move this deal. Edited January 30, 2021 by Nuxfanabroad 7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'NucK™ Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Sounds brilliant to me. I am a bit worried about that year cause what if a team offer sheets Petey seeing that we are in a cap crunch? And (assuming we make trades and match it), it would probably end up being more than what the Canucks and him would have agreed on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, 'NucK™ said: Sounds brilliant to me. I am a bit worried about that year cause what if a team offer sheets Petey seeing that we are in a cap crunch? And (assuming we make trades and match it), it would probably end up being more than what the Canucks and him would have agreed on That would have to be the highest level of offer sheet. Only so many teams have the required picks and cap room to make such an offer sheet without the picks being a chance at a very high draft position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'NucK™ Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, elvis15 said: That would have to be the highest level of offer sheet. Only so many teams have the required picks and cap room to make such an offer sheet without the picks being a chance at a very high draft position. Well you never know what the standings/rosters will look like then. And most teams do have the required picks since they are spread out. Also.. the compensation will likely be close to $11M+ for max (4 draft picks). So my concern is a team offers him $10.99 (2 1sts, 2nd, 3rd) which causes us headaches since lets say since we are trying to sign him at 10.5 I don't want to get into the numbers too much but that was the original thought behind my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'NucK™ Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said: Well you never know what the standings/rosters will look like then. And most teams do have the required picks since they are spread out. Also.. the compensation will likely be close to $11M+ for max (4 draft picks). So my concern is a team offers him $10.99 (2 1sts, 2nd, 3rd) which causes us headaches since lets say since we are trying to sign him at 10.5 I don't want to get into the numbers too much but that was the original thought behind my post. I guess now that I write it out it, I'm essentially worried about having to trade an AHLer and fork up an extra $500k in salary.. so maybe nvm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 It's a decent idea but if you were the GM could you go to Aqua and ask for that big cheque? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Anyone know what Loui will cost us (cap hit) if he retires after his bonus this summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, Devron44 said: Anyone know what Loui will cost us (cap hit) if he retires after his bonus this summer? I believe if he retires all monies owed and the corresponding cap hit for the remainder of the contract fall off the books immediately. When a player retires, the team has the option to pursue the return of a portion of the signing bonus equal to the unplayed portions of the contract, and that money is no longer counted against the salary cap. This is typically done through an arbitrator If a player retires, any remaining signing bonus(es) is/are no longer payable, although if the contract took effect after the player turned 35 the full cap hit of the contract will still be charged to the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 What's Colin White's situation? Is he going to become a dud which will haunt us for years? If he's going to hinder us I'd rather see if we could find a buyer for Sven (I still believe someone could take him on) and wait for Loui to retire than take on another dead weight contract. Also could someone do the math of what's going in and coming out of the books? Not sure what we're looking at with bonuses and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, Rick Blight said: I believe if he retires all monies owed and the corresponding cap hit for the remainder of the contract fall off the books immediately. When a player retires, the team has the option to pursue the return of a portion of the signing bonus equal to the unplayed portions of the contract, and that money is no longer counted against the salary cap. This is typically done through an arbitrator If a player retires, any remaining signing bonus(es) is/are no longer payable, although if the contract took effect after the player turned 35 the full cap hit of the contract will still be charged to the team. That would be the ultimate dream. Hopefully he can just end his career on a high note (Continue his modest success this season) Get his bonus and hang em up. I mean If he has any pride I think that would be the best scenario. If he’s lost a couple steps now, what would the next 2 season looks like for him. Press box, minors? Go out head high Loui Gotta hope that’s the plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Gotta think Ottawa still believes in the kid. It’s relatively normal for a young player to have some growing pains. I thought it was a pretty risky move for Ottawa to sign him like that at the time but it’s reasonable to believe that it could still work out and that cap hit would look pretty good for them down the road.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: What's Colin White's situation? Is he going to become a dud which will haunt us for years? If he's going to hinder us I'd rather see if we could find a buyer for Sven (I still believe someone could take him on) and wait for Loui to retire than take on another dead weight contract. Also could someone do the math of what's going in and coming out of the books? Not sure what we're looking at with bonuses and whatnot. From a cap hit perspective we would be ridding ourselves of $8.9M next year and $6M the following year. In return we would be taking on a cap hit of $4.75M for five years. However, if we bought out White in the summer of 2020 we would only have a cap hit of $800K through the 2029/30 season. The 2020/21 season cap hit would be $1.6M. https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/colin-white/2020-07-15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, Devron44 said: Gotta think Ottawa still believes in the kid. It’s relatively normal for a young player to have some growing pains. I thought it was a pretty risky move for Ottawa to sign him like that at the time but it’s reasonable to believe that it could still work out and that cap hit would look pretty good for them down the road.. I agree that it is too early to write off a talent like this and that is what makes this proposal such a good deal from a Canucks' perspective, other than the obvious cap savings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said: A little research on HFOttawa page has revealed a GEM/diamond plan to dance around our coming cap-conundrum. They have a player who was so promising, they signed for big $$$, & now he has spiraled. Because he's so young, his buyout-hit is a sweet song. Colin White. Signed 4.75 AAV(back loaded) for 5 more seasons. That's 20+ mill that EMelnyk would looove to dump. Due to his youth, you can stretch his buyout over EIGHT(or nine?) yrs for a meagre 817 k cap hit Van: LouiE AND Baertschi(pay Loui's bonus, he's only 5,000,000 owed/2 seasons, for a 6 mill AAV - Melnyk Special!) OTT: White, I'd argue we should get a cond 2021 2nd/3rd, for taking on an EXTRA(approx) 15,000,000 $ real $ commitment! Important point: You can ride this cheap buyout option for TWO more seasons(only 817 k), then it goes up to about 1.8 mill. If we bought him out after next season, you immediately open up 5 mill for the important 2021-22 season, where EP & QH need new deals. White: 2018-19 - 71 gp..41 pts(impressive, got a 6 yr doozy deal) 2019-20: 43 gp ..only 14 lousy pts! (rumour is he's struggling with similar injury to BSutter, groin/hernia) ********************************************* Lastly, OTT has a slew of young C's, so they can easily fill this bloke's spot. Also prob two top-10 picks this 2020(fwd heavy) draft. Bet they'd JUMP to move this deal. Give Melnyk a call Nux and get this deal done! Offer up a case of Sake if he needs a sweetner....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Rick Blight said: From a cap hit perspective we would be ridding ourselves of $8.9M next year and $6M the following year. In return we would be taking on a cap hit of $4.75M for five years. However, if we bought out White in the summer of 2020 we would only have a cap hit of $800K through the 2029/30 season. The 2020/21 season cap hit would be $1.6M. https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/colin-white/2020-07-15 Almost seems like a no-lose situation. Wonder if we could acquire him early enough and see if we could create some value for him, that maybe just maybe if we threw a pick and him at Seattle they would take him instead of Demko, since from his draft and HF comments he was touted as something of a mix of Dave Bolland and Patrice Bergeron, plus he's still young and a former 1st round pick. Just hope that he doesn't get injured if we acquired him, since wouldn't we be kept from buying out players if they're on LTIR? (Thinking back to when the Leafs and Jackets swapped Horton and Clarkson, they did it to lose that dead cap space for the injured player, correct?); we would need to hope that he's not actually injury-prone. Edited January 31, 2020 by Phil_314 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 58 minutes ago, Devron44 said: Anyone know what Loui will cost us (cap hit) if he retires after his bonus this summer? I kind of expect to hear this happen July 2 2020. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 23 minutes ago, Rick Blight said: I agree that it is too early to write off a talent like this and that is what makes this proposal such a good deal from a Canucks' perspective, other than the obvious cap savings. And thats what makes it a no go from Ottawa’s side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: Almost seems like a no-lose situation. Wonder if we could acquire him early enough and see if we could create some value for him, that maybe just maybe if we threw a pick and him at Seattle they would take him instead of Demko, since from his draft and HF comments he was touted as something of a mix of Dave Bolland and Patrice Bergeron. Just hope that he doesn't get injured if we acquired him, since wouldn't we be kept from buying out players if they're on LTIR? (Thinking back to when the Leafs and Jackets swapped Horton and Clarkson, they did it to lose that dead cap space for the injured player, correct?); we would need to hope that he's not actually injury-prone. I think you are correct that players on LTIR cannot be bought out. The teams does get cap hit relief though for players on LTIR. If I remember the Clarkson/Horton trade correctly, I believe the Leafs wanted to get out of the terrible Clarkson contract and Columbus was paying Horton big bucks while he would never play again (salary not insured). Toronto did not mind taking Horton on, placing him on LTIR, and quite happily paid him as they were/are such a rich team. The trade was actually good for both teams as the Leafs were able to free up the cap space that Clarkson occupied and the Jackets got a serviceable player for about the same money they were paying to Horton on LTIR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Rick Blight said: Give Melnyk a call Nux and get this deal done! Offer up a case of Sake if he needs a sweetner....... Just got back from a 2 hr run, RB(we a runnin' joke here?!)..seems every time I read your reply, just returning from LSD(long, slow distance) where I was goin in circles! Yeah, I'd really like to see a deal like this to clean up the books. Sake has been known to expedite dirty biz... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, qwijibo said: And thats what makes it a no go from Ottawa’s side You shouldn't speak in absolutes(about trade spec), as frequently as you do. There are many variables involved, & you can't claim to know what Melnyk is thinkin' - even if you're his own brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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