wallstreetamigo Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, oldnews said: Exactly... to the point where you ask who would do that? The answer to that is simple - Sutter is your 3C. You don't need him to 'drive offense' -which btw he's relatively capable of = a guy that has scored 20 goals, capable of 20/20 in a matchup role. Put him with a veteran like Roussel, and let Gaudette 'drive' some offense from the wing - while not being exposed as a rookie center who doesn't look ready inside his own blueline, and can't win draws. When Beagle is healthy - he and Sutter would be my 'bottom 6' centers - and the 3rd line would be capable of pitching in secondary scoring, while matching up. The other benefit of that - is that it frees up Horvat's line more - with less need to keep Eriksson on that line - give Horvat a more threatening winger (ie Virtanen). This is exactly how I see the lineup being the most balanced and best overall 5 on 5 tbh. Roussel has played better the last few games and is a pretty underrated playmaker when he is on and moving his feet. Once Boeser comes back - and despite the current state of panic and doom and gloom - I think this roster has the pieces to be a 4 line team that can be much better defensively as a group shift to shift and can also generate some offensive zone time. Green just needs to be willing to make some of those adjustments. I am not a Sutter or Eriksson hater at all. I think especially with Sutter he is a guy who can fit that two way role better than people think. Mostly because its a lot easier to spend time in the offensive zone when you can win faceoffs anywhere on the ice. That is not Gaudette yet though. Edited March 9, 2020 by wallstreetamigo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: I am not convinced Tryamkin would even be a better option at this stage. Still lots of question marks as to just how he would fit. cap wise as well. Fantenburg has been very good - there is no real need to rush Tryamkin back into this lineup imo - and yes, it's debatable whether he'd be an upgrade being parachuted into a playoff race with new systems, team-mates, etc (and a language barrier). He also never played for Green - he played for WD..... If it were a question of Tryamkin vs Benn, I'd be more inclined - but Fantenburg as the 6th man has been excellent imo. So as tempting as that might be - it's probably not realistic - even in a cap sense (once the playoffs start it wouldn't matter) - but if Boeser returns, I'm not sure they'd have the cap for Tryamkin as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, oldnews said: cap wise as well. Fantenburg has been very good - there is no real need to rush Tryamkin back into this lineup imo - and yes, it's debatable whether he'd be an upgrade being parachuted into a playoff race with new systems, team-mates, etc (and a language barrier). He also never played for Green - he played for WD..... If it were a question of Tryamkin vs Benn, I'd be more inclined - but Fantenburg as the 6th man has been excellent imo. So as tempting as that might be - it's probably not realistic - even in a cap sense (once the playoffs start it wouldn't matter) - but if Boeser returns, I'm not sure they'd have the cap for Tryamkin as well. This is the thing i see too. Fantenburg has been pretty steady as a 6th guy like you said. Not flashy but steady. Tryamkin would add an element we could use but really thats a lot of risk to take even if they could fit it cap wise. I think he needs a full summer of training within the canucks plan and a full training camp to see just where he would fit. I have been more concerned with some of the decisions Stecher has been making defensively tbh. I also don't know if you guys see it like me but Hughes has not been the same since that injury a few games back. Could be a combination of that and some fatigue. Still really good obviously but his passes arent as quick and accurate especially transitioning out of our zone. And he seems to be a lot more concerned about taking hits. I think he is still banged up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: This is exactly how I see the lineup being the most balanced and best overall 5 on 5 tbh. Roussel has played better the last few games and is a pretty underrated playmaker when he is on and moving his feet. Once Boeser comes back - and despite the current state of panic and doom and gloom - I think this roster has the pieces to be a 4 line team that can be much better defensively as a group shift to shift and can also generate some offensive zone time. Green just needs to be willing to make some of those adjustments. I am not a Sutter or Eriksson hater at all. I think especially with Sutter he is a guy who can fit that two way role better than people think. Mostly because its a lot easier to spend time in the offensive zone when you can win faceoffs anywhere on the ice. I agree. When they're healthy I'd move Sutter to 3C - and LE out of the lineup altogether (LE for me is the 12th man right now - and if you consider Beagle, Boeser (Ferland and Leivo) - he'd be 16th on a healthy roster (I'd have Mac over him at this point). Miller EP Boeser Pearson Horvat Toffoli Roussel Sutter Virtanen Motte Beagle Mac Miller EP Boeser Pearson Horvat Toffoli Roussel Sutter Gaudette Motte Beagle Virtanen I think with Boeser healthy, I'd probably go with the former of those two - and sit Gaudette in favour of Mac on the 4th line. That might not be popular, but I think it would be more balanced (and probably merit-based). I doubt that would happen, because as much as the team wants to push - I also think it's fairly clear that they've committed to developing Gaudette and are willing to live with the growing pains, but from a strict push for the playoffs perspective, I think it's pretty clear that he has the weakest two-way game in the group and/or among the other more 'one way' forwards, he's the least productive. Edited March 9, 2020 by oldnews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 9 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said: Ok, Loui Eriksson now has 6 goals and 7 assists for 13 points in 49 games... and he has played mostly on the 2nd line. Yeah, yeah, I know Green likes his plugs and he likes the way Loui backchecks... but isn't it time that we get a little more scoring punch and creativity on 2nd line? Right now the team seems to be having issues with consistent goal scoring... maybe they need a little help? Loui is kinda a placeholder... we all know that... so why is he still playing? --- Lets see what we have down in Utica: Nikolai Goldobin: 19 goals, 30 assists in 50 games... nearly a point a game. Improved on his Plus/Minus at -2... not great, but actually better than Loui... better than Bo, (at -14... even great players sometimes get bad stats) tied with Pearson and Jake. Justin Bailey: 27 goals, 19 assists in 49 games... not too far off Goldobin in PPG. Big and tough, would fit with the Horvat line. Got a few looks up with the big team, but not really enough to give him a chance. Plus/Minus of +11. Sven Baertschi: 13 goals, 33 assists in 43 games... actually better PPG than the others, Plus/Minus of -2... but again, we know how much Green hates to admit he's wrong... so rule him out. One more: Lukas Jasek: 14 goals, 13 assists in 55 games, offensive stats not that impressive but he doesn't get much playing time... and he has a very high plus/minus of +16, best on the team for forwards... so he knows his backcheck. A very slick player, might combine nicely with the grit of Horvat and Pearson. ----- Some might say "Don't mess with a good thing..." ... but is Eriksson really a positive... or is he a 'meh'??? Personally I think this team needs a spark or something which will get them going. Eriksson is not that. Really? You mention that Horvat is -14. Loui is -2 in 49 games. That should say something. Especially that Loui is instrumental to Horvats success. So I say don't shift players all the time. Keep Horvat, Pearson and Loui together through the whole games. Let Loui be on PP2. Because he knows where to be and he is good close to the net. Green shift players all the time and it's just stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squamfan Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 9 hours ago, DS4quality said: This will look worse when we don't make the playoffs and Toronto drafts ahead of us... We'll all come back to Columbus the leafs dont even have a pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squamfan Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 3 hours ago, erkayloomeh said: Isn't boeser coming back.? Then won't Eriksson get demoted? Would like to see Eriksson gone asap green going to take out big zac and every body knows it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, oldnews said: I agree. When they're healthy I'd move Sutter to 3C - and LE out of the lineup altogether (LE for me is the 12th man right now - and if you consider Beagle, Boeser (Ferland and Leivo) - he'd be 16th on a healthy roster (I'd have Mac over him at this point). Miller EP Boeser Pearson Horvat Toffoli Roussel Sutter Virtanen Mac Beagle Motte Miller EP Boeser Pearson Horvat Toffoli Roussel Sutter Gaudette Motte Beagle Virtanen I think with Boeser healthy, I'd probably go with the former of those two - and sit Gaudette in favour of Mac on the 4th line. That might not be popular, but I think it would be more balanced (and probably merit-based). I doubt that would happen, because as much as the team wants to push - I also think it's fairly clear that they've committed to developing Gaudette and are willing to live with the growing pains, but from a strict push for the playoffs perspective, I think it's pretty clear that he has the weakest two-way game in the group and/or among the other more 'one way' forwards, he's the least productive. This is an interesting take on the lineup. I would be inclined to agree tbh. Mac brings an element that is sorely needed in that bottom 6. For me, he should be one of the hardest decisions to pull out to fit Boeser, Beagle, etc back in. He certainly makes the most of his minutes even minus the goal scoring against Colorado. Just his edge and commitment to being hard on the forecheck is in too short supply on this team right now. He is the type of player that wears down opponents in a playoff series. The pieces are there. The forward group has enough there to make for a balanced group. I would even argue there is enough there for Green to be a bit more situational in terms of who is in or out of the lineup based on the opponent and the style of game they are likely to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Eriksson is actually a pretty good option as an extra forward. His defensive game does mean he can slot in as needed to fill any number of roles without hurting the team too much. How much he helps is certainly debatable. But the stretch drive and playoffs are a war if attrition. We could do worse than having LE as our pinch hitter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Unfortunately this isn't the time to for auditions but if they keep losing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 I want to see the team move on from Eriksson too of course but he takes a disproportionate amount of hate and blame. He has been a good defensive player in a tough role and has been far from a reason for this latest slide. I would argue actually that he has been a net positive to that line defensively through this last stretch. Sure you would like to see him be able to generate more offensively but that whole line needs to find a way to be more effective 5 on 5 against top players. Thats hard 5 on 5 minutes for anyone who is on that line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Tre Mac said: Unfortunately this isn't the time to for auditions but if they keep losing... Too true. If we continue this pattern of terrible play how soon before we are playing games that mean nothing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: This is an interesting take on the lineup. I would be inclined to agree tbh. Mac brings an element that is sorely needed in that bottom 6. For me, he should be one of the hardest decisions to pull out to fit Boeser, Beagle, etc back in. He certainly makes the most of his minutes even minus the goal scoring against Colorado. Just his edge and commitment to being hard on the forecheck is in too short supply on this team right now. He is the type of player that wears down opponents in a playoff series. The pieces are there. The forward group has enough there to make for a balanced group. I would even argue there is enough there for Green to be a bit more situational in terms of who is in or out of the lineup based on the opponent and the style of game they are likely to play. yeah - they have the pieces and depth - if they get anyone back. I'd probably edit the lineup above to swap Toffoli onto the top line and Boeser to Horvat's - I think Toffoli is a bit harder on the puck, healthier and probably a bit better without the puck than Boeser - and EP's line could probably use that more than Horvat Pearson... But for me - the hard decision comes if/when both Beagle and Boeser are healthy - beyond LE out of the lineup - is it Gaudette or MacEwen? Some people would probably think Motte but I think that Motte has tended to be radically undervalued here. I also think Sutter looks better at center - with a couple guys a bit more two-way - who can counterpunch and provide secondary scoring. I agree that Roussel is starting to look better - that line with him, Sutter, Virtanen could be very effective. It would be very difficult to sit Gaudette but from a strict win-now perspective I think that might be the best (albeit likely highly unpopular) option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said: I want to see the team move on from Eriksson too of course but he takes a disproportionate amount of hate and blame. He has been a good defensive player in a tough role and has been far from a reason for this latest slide. I would argue actually that he has been a net positive to that line defensively through this last stretch. Sure you would like to see him be able to generate more offensively but that whole line needs to find a way to be more effective 5 on 5 against top players. Thats hard 5 on 5 minutes for anyone who is on that line. Loui needs to go, as do Sutter, Rooster, Benn, and Beagle. But even with those moves we will still be under the direction of the same coach. Green is IMO the one change that would make the most difference. #weneedbabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Loui needs to go, as do Sutter, Rooster, Benn, and Beagle. But even with those moves we will still be under the direction of the same coach. Green is IMO the one change that would make the most difference. #weneedbabs you just built a crapola team Alf, without any bottom 6 centers. No matchup. Dubas-esque. Maybe you do need babs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, oldnews said: yeah - they have the pieces and depth - if they get anyone back. I'd probably edit the lineup above to swap Toffoli onto the top line and Boeser to Horvat's - I think Toffoli is a bit harder on the puck, healthier and probably a bit better without the puck than Boeser - and EP's line could probably use that more than Horvat Pearson... But for me - the hard decision comes if/when both Beagle and Boeser are healthy - beyond LE out of the lineup - is it Gaudette or MacEwen? Some people would probably think Motte but I think that Motte has tended to be radically undervalued here. I also think Sutter looks better at center - with a couple guys a bit more two-way - who can counterpunch and provide secondary scoring. I agree that Roussel is starting to look better - that line with him, Sutter, Virtanen could be very effective. It would be very difficult to sit Gaudette but from a strict win-now perspective I think that might be the best (albeit likely highly unpopular) option. Bess is a far better driver of play with puck on stick than Tofu. Tofu, as you say, is definitely harder on and off pucks. I don’t see him as a play driver like Bess though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 22 minutes ago, oldnews said: Miller EP Boeser Pearson Horvat Toffoli Roussel Sutter Gaudette Motte Beagle Virtanen This and only this! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Just now, oldnews said: you just built a crapola team Alf, without any bottom 6 centers. No matchup. Dubas-esque. Maybe you do need babs. Okay, we can keep Beagle. Our team is too old. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 minute ago, oldnews said: yeah - they have the pieces and depth - if they get anyone back. I'd probably edit the lineup above to swap Toffoli onto the top line and Boeser to Horvat's - I think Toffoli is a bit harder on the puck, healthier and probably a bit better without the puck than Boeser - and EP's line could probably use that more than Horvat Pearson... But for me - the hard decision comes if/when both Beagle and Boeser are healthy - beyond LE out of the lineup - is it Gaudette or MacEwen? Some people would probably think Motte but I think that Motte has tended to be radically undervalued here. I also think Sutter looks better at center - with a couple guys a bit more two-way - who can counterpunch and provide secondary scoring. I agree that Roussel is starting to look better - that line with him, Sutter, Virtanen could be very effective. It would be very difficult to sit Gaudette but from a strict win-now perspective I think that might be the best (albeit likely highly unpopular) option. I would find it pretty hard to split up that Miller-EP-Toffoli line. They have been very good although EP looks a bit off. He was better against Columbus for trying to shoot the puck when he had the shot (I thought against Colorado he was smothered for sure but tried to pass when he should have shot a number of times). If you slot in Boeser with Pearson and Horvat I think you definitely give up some of that defensive prowess but the possibility of it adding a more dangerous 5 on 5 line offensively is probably worth the tradeoff. The key is a 3rd and 4th line that can handle a bit more of that defensive responsibility. Beagle obviously changes that dynamic considerably. But switching that 3rd line may be the most important piece of making that puzzle work. Freeing up Horvat and that line from all of the defensive heavy lifting will be a key to success imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 But we see different RW's with Bo all the time. Loui's only been on Bo's line 26% of the time even strength this year: https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/bo-horvat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now