dalredane Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 First of all, I know they are millionaires so they should be giving it their all every night. Making more in 1 game than most of us will in a year. But at the same time, they are not robots, so human nature is that they will mail in an effort once in a while, as we so clearly saw last night. I think the best thing to come of the Anaheim game is that we have another game tonight and an opportunity to move forward. Downside. We are now sitting as a team that is .500 average. Same number of goals scored for as goals scored against. Can't get much more middle of the pack than that. Been a fan my whole life, but I have realized that the 2009 - 2011's team performance is getting farther in the rear view mirror than it is closer. With the cap expected to go up significantly next year and limited trades happening these days in the NHL, I think there is not the market to make a deal this year and we will just wait until the next year with more cap room to do something. I do not hold out much hope for anything substantial happening this year in the playoffs with this group as it sits today. --------------------- I ask all the long-term fans to weigh in on what exactly would you give Gillis as a letter grade since he came here and inherited a core of impact players that largely Burke and Nonis had drafted or traded for. The players Gillis has added in 5 years have largely been rentals or busts. --------------------- From what I can see, the trades and pickups made by GIllis have been largely a bust or had minimal impact over the long term except for his steal in picking up Ehrhoff. (Credit to Robthehockeyguy.com for the trades list) White for Ehrhoff and Lukowich - good except that we then lost Ehrhoff later 3rd round draft pick for Higgins - Higgins is good,,,,but not top 6 3rd round draft pick for Lapierre - good grit and faceoffs, then we lost him 2nd and 3rd round draft pick for Bernier - ok, then we traded him anyways and lost picks 3rd round draft pick for Alberts - depth defenseman only - too slow and inconsistent Samuelsson and Sturm for Booth - do I need to go there Connauton and a 2nd round draft pick for Roy - another pick and prospect lost on a rental Grabner, Bernier and a 1st round draft pick for Ballard - pice de resistance.... what a waste Hodgson and Sulzer for Kassian and Gragnani - still to be determined (see David Booth trade) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 First of all, I know they are millionaires so they should be giving it their all every night. Making more in 1 game than most of us will in a year. But at the same time, they are not robots, so human nature is that they will mail in an effort once in a while, as we so clearly saw last night. I think the best thing to come of the Anaheim game is that we have another game tonight and an opportunity to move forward. Downside. We are now sitting as a team that is .500 average. Same number of goals scored for as goals scored against. Can't get much more middle of the pack than that. Been a fan my whole life, but I have realized that the 2009 - 2011's team performance is getting farther in the rear view mirror than it is closer. With the cap expected to go up significantly next year and limited trades happening these days in the NHL, I think there is not the market to make a deal this year and we will just wait until the next year with more cap room to do something. I do not hold out much hope for anything substantial happening this year in the playoffs with this group as it sits today. --------------------- I ask all the long-term fans to weigh in on what exactly would you give Gillis as a letter grade since he came here and inherited a core of impact players that largely Burke and Nonis had drafted or traded for. The players Gillis has added in 5 years have largely been rentals or busts. --------------------- From what I can see, the trades and pickups made by GIllis have been largely a bust or had minimal impact over the long term except for his steal in picking up Ehrhoff. (Credit to Robthehockeyguy.com for the trades list) White for Ehrhoff and Lukowich - good except that we then lost Ehrhoff later 3rd round draft pick for Higgins - Higgins is good,,,,but not top 6 3rd round draft pick for Lapierre - good grit and faceoffs, then we lost him 2nd and 3rd round draft pick for Bernier - ok, then we traded him anyways and lost picks 3rd round draft pick for Alberts - depth defenseman only - too slow and inconsistent Samuelsson and Sturm for Booth - do I need to go there Connauton and a 2nd round draft pick for Roy - another pick and prospect lost on a rental Grabner, Bernier and a 1st round draft pick for Ballard - pice de resistance.... what a waste Hodgson and Sulzer for Kassian and Gragnani - still to be determined (see David Booth trade) I've given GMMG an F since he got here. Every good thing he has done is either gone or been undone, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavelsElbow Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 LOl it still amazes me how none of the people on CDC are GMs in the NHL.... first off, we didnt LOSE lappy. We let him go... second, you fail to mention how close we were to getting doan AND clowe. They picked their other teams... WTF WAS GILLIS THINKING.... third, i still want him to get that 3rd line centre and a top 6 SURE. And you know what i bet he is working his ass off to get them. I am not the biggest Gillis supporter at all, he has made bad decisions, but you people fail to realize how you DONT WIN every god forsaken trade in the NHL. Aww we lost Roy for a bum dman who is only playing in Dallas cause their dcore is a joke. Im sure the aquillinis have trust in him for a reason, and you cant spit facts like THE OTHER GMS DONT RESPECT HIM, when you dont have any ???? evidence. STFU RELAX!!! Everything will be alright kids, everything is going to be okay... PS. if i hear the ballard trade was bad one more ???? time.... AT THE TIME OF THE TRADE IT WAS SO GOOD. Its so easy to look back and say WHAT A STUPID TRADE, but IT WASNT!!! We needed to strengthen our D. I was SO happy when that trade happened. IF you werent you clearly didnt follow hockey, or didnt follow the canucks at the time... Jesus christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 We need a SJ type of rebuild. A few years ago they decided to stuck with their old core (Marleau, Thornton, Boyle) and get rids of depth players like Murray, Galiardi and Clowe to make room for the Couture, Demers, Vlasic and Hertl, etc. Meaning some (not all) of Higgins, Hansen, Santorelli, Richardson, Burrows, Edler, Tanev, Bieksa should be traded at the deadline for buyers that will be willings to overpay for a playoff run. Get the most 2nd, 3rd and even maybe 1st round pick. Then next year, you fill this lack of depth with young players like Horvat, Shinkaruk, Jensen and Gaunce. Ready or not, this will rejuvanize this team. Yes they will make mistakes and we'll still be a middle of the pack team, but a middle team on the rise, rather than on the decline. Plus if you get a few extra 2nd and 3rd round pick they can be use to move up the draft or restock the prospect shelf, meaning that in 1 or 2 years at the trade deadline if we want to make a run, we have depth in the prospect pool to get a big players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Honestly, who cares. Any time I read 2011, Gillis' mistakes or inherited core, I skim the content of the rant as I have read the same regurgitated crap in a hundred other posts. Regardless of last night's drubbing, I will still be a fan and watch the games from a local watering hole or from the comfort of my couch. I don't really care to try and 'fix' what management is or isn't doing. If you want a letter grade then B because he hasn't massively improved the team or massively downgraded the team. The team is just getting older and the wrinkles are starting to show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 LOl it still amazes me how none of the people on CDC are GMs in the NHL.... first off, we didnt LOSE lappy. We let him go... second, you fail to mention how close we were to getting doan AND clowe. They picked their other teams... WTF WAS GILLIS THINKING.... third, i still want him to get that 3rd line centre and a top 6 SURE. And you know what i bet he is working his ass off to get them. I am not the biggest Gillis supporter at all, he has made bad decisions, but you people fail to realize how you DONT WIN every god forsaken trade in the NHL. Aww we lost Roy for a bum dman who is only playing in Dallas cause their dcore is a joke. Im sure the aquillinis have trust in him for a reason, and you cant spit facts like THE OTHER GMS DONT RESPECT HIM, when you dont have any ???? evidence. STFU RELAX!!! Everything will be alright kids, everything is going to be okay... I want to have children just so I can use that line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodnessgracious Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I understand completely the logic of looking at the scoreboard lastnight, seeing what a ****fest this game was, looking up to the press box to see Mr.Gillis, and pointing the finger and saying "look what you have done." This has been an issue with this team, as we know, far beyond this game. This has been an issue in my honest opinoin since the chicago series back in the run of 2011. How does a hockey team blow a 3-0 lead, and even need a game 7? Sure, we won in a great way, and we went on to thrash the preds and the sharks as well. But in the finals, did we not have a 2-0 advantage? I get it, we were hurt, injured, tired, and all that jazz. But guess what? *We were having trouble scoring goals*. Thats it. We didnt lose the series because we weren't tough enough to do it. We lost that series because we didn't have the firepower the Bruins did, I was honestly surprised we beat the sharks the way we did. People all over canucks forums, HF boards, and what have you, know damn well this hockey team is NOT an elite contender. It just isnt happening right now. The Vancouver Canucks are holding on to the dreams of what we once were, and never adressed there issues after that year. Mike Gillis needs to ???? wake up, and realize what he has infront of him, and in my opinoin he has 2 options. 1.Call this season off, tank the rest of the way, and truthfully go for a rebuild by recieving higher-rated prospects, instead of getting into the postseason and being swept. 2.Get a ???? winger. Get someone who can shoot the puck, and give up something for it. I myself dont mind giving up some valuble pieces, to move the canucks into that elite category. Grow some ???? balls and move guys like Edler, Gaunce, even 1st rounders, on people who arent going to walk after 1 season. Lock up a guy who can shoot the puck, and play to win. Simple as that. The Sedins aint doing it right now, Kesler isnt going to get us 40 goals. The Canucks need a shake up, and they need it quick. Adress the issue, or get someone who will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I've given GMMG an F since he got here. Every good thing he has done is either gone or been undone, plain and simple. I'm so glad there will be rational replies in yet another "how has Gillis done/how is this team doing/what can we do to fix it?" thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 IMHO we should keep the key pieces of the team (Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Tanev, Garrison) a couple role players (Higgins, Richardson, Santorelli, Kassian) see if Luongo wants to continue his career elsewhere and build around the rest of the team. After the season the line up should look something like this: Sedin - Sedin - ______ ______ - Kesler - Burrows Higgins - ______ - Kassian ______ - Richardson - Santorelli Hamhuis - ______ Garrison - Tanev Stanton - Bieksa ______ Lack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 White for Ehrhoff and Lukowich - good except that we then lost Ehrhoff later (Disagree completely. You have to look at those type of situations from two sides. What came of White on the Sharks? Nothing? Ehrhoff proved us a cup run. 3rd round draft pick for Higgins - Higgins is good,,,,but not top 6 Higgins is a #6 forward IMO. I don't mind having him in the top six. 3rd round draft pick for Lapierre - good grit and faceoffs, then we lost him But we got Richardson to replace him. I'd make a 3rd round pick for Richardson trade. 2nd and 3rd round draft pick for Bernier - ok, then we traded him anyways and lost picks Agreed, this was horrendous. 3rd round draft pick for Alberts - depth defenseman only - too slow and inconsistent This wasn't very good either. Samuelsson and Sturm for Booth - do I need to go there Samuelsson was like 47 years old. This trade wasn't that bad. Just his performance was. Connauton and a 2nd round draft pick for Roy - another pick and prospect lost on a rental Okay, hindsight this is bad. Grabner, Bernier and a 1st round draft pick for Ballard - pice de resistance.... what a waste Grabner sucked in Florida. Bernier is fourth line trash. Howden isn't anything special. Ballard got put in av's doghouse and never recovered. Hodgson and Sulzer for Kassian and Gragnani - still to be determined (see David Booth trade This was way too much of a kneejerk trade after the Boston series IMO. I like Kassian, but I don't think that was the right price to pay. I still think he'll pan out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 White for Ehrhoff and Lukowich - good except that we then lost Ehrhoff later 3rd round draft pick for Higgins - Higgins is good,,,,but not top 6 3rd round draft pick for Lapierre - good grit and faceoffs, then we lost him 2nd and 3rd round draft pick for Bernier - ok, then we traded him anyways and lost picks 3rd round draft pick for Alberts - depth defenseman only - too slow and inconsistent Samuelsson and Sturm for Booth - do I need to go there Connauton and a 2nd round draft pick for Roy - another pick and prospect lost on a rental Grabner, Bernier and a 1st round draft pick for Ballard - pice de resistance.... what a waste Hodgson and Sulzer for Kassian and Gragnani - still to be determined (see David Booth trade) You feeling thirsty? Your glass' looking half empty. "Good except..." blah blah. "Good... but not" blah blah. Trading Sammy and Sturm for Booth gets a "do I need to go there?" Really? Also, Grabs and Bernie were totally looking like the breakout guys we need right... These hindsight posts come out EVERY TIME the team loses big, and then the fans'll praise MG for getting Santo/ Richardson/ Stanton/ locking the core in for cheap every time they win big. This roller coaster ride's getting ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I understand completely the logic of looking at the scoreboard lastnight, seeing what a ****fest this game was, looking up to the press box to see Mr.Gillis, and pointing the finger and saying "look what you have done." This has been an issue with this team, as we know, far beyond this game. This has been an issue in my honest opinoin since the chicago series back in the run of 2011. How does a hockey team blow a 3-0 lead, and even need a game 7? Sure, we won in a great way, and we went on to thrash the preds and the sharks as well. But in the finals, did we not have a 2-0 advantage? I get it, we were hurt, injured, tired, and all that jazz. But guess what? *We were having trouble scoring goals*. Thats it. We didnt lose the series because we weren't tough enough to do it. We lost that series because we didn't have the firepower the Bruins did, I was honestly surprised we beat the sharks the way we did. People all over canucks forums, HF boards, and what have you, know damn well this hockey team is NOT an elite contender. It just isnt happening right now. The Vancouver Canucks are holding on to the dreams of what we once were, and never adressed there issues after that year. Mike Gillis needs to ???? wake up, and realize what he has infront of him, and in my opinoin he has 2 options. Adress the issue, or get someone who will. Thats where I think your wrong, we lost to BOS, LA, and SJ because we don't have the enough grit. Sedins are high end skill but when games get rough become invisible and stick to the perimeter. We don't have enough guys that have size, crash and bang, and also have a bit of a scoring touch. Kesler and Booth are the only two players that really know how to drive the puck to the net. Bruin and LA don't have more firepower than us, That have more toughness and that's about it. We out shot the bruins most games in the series but all perimeter shots that were routine saves. Pits scored only 3 goals against the bruins in 4 games last post season, Do they need to go out and get more scoring? Our PP sucks. why? because in front of the net is completely open, we get no rebounds or even good screens. We have just started to change that. It's not because we don't have someone who knows how to score, it's because the goalies are making easy saves. All the players are capable scoring. If this team needs anything it's we need another Kesler type player, maybe a couple of them. Ott, Ladd, O'Rielly are guys that come to mind they are not pure snipers by any means. They open up more space for our high end talent. Bickell was a key to CHI success last year, Big Buff in their previous cup, and their no snipers, just big guys that know how to drive the net and make like miserable for goalies. They are guys you want to go to war with and that's the type of guys you win Stanley cups with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 How about..... Sedin - Sedin - Burrows _Kane_ - Kesler - Higgins Booth - _Ott__ - Kassian Wiese- Richardson - Sestito Hamhuis - Bieksa Garrison - Tanev Stanton - Alberts/Corrado Luongo Lack Traded pieces: Santo, Hansen. Edler, Jensen, 3rd and 4th Acquired pieces: Kane, Ott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 We need a SJ type of rebuild. A few years ago they decided to stuck with their old core (Marleau, Thornton, Boyle) and get rids of depth players like Murray, Galiardi and Clowe to make room for the Couture, Demers, Vlasic and Hertl, etc. Meaning some (not all) of Higgins, Hansen, Santorelli, Richardson, Burrows, Edler, Tanev, Bieksa should be traded at the deadline for buyers that will be willings to overpay for a playoff run. Get the most 2nd, 3rd and even maybe 1st round pick. Then next year, you fill this lack of depth with young players like Horvat, Shinkaruk, Jensen and Gaunce. Ready or not, this will rejuvanate this team. Yes they will make mistakes and we'll still be a middle of the pack team, but a middle team on the rise, rather than on the decline. Plus if you get a few extra 2nd and 3rd round pick they can be use to move up the draft or restock the prospect shelf, meaning that in 1 or 2 years at the trade deadline if we want to make a run, we have depth in the prospect pool to get a big players. IMHO we should keep the key pieces of the team (Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Tanev, Garrison) a couple role players (Higgins, Richardson, Santorelli, Kassian) see if Luongo wants to continue his career elsewhere and build around the rest of the team. After the season the line up should look something like this: Sedin - Sedin - ______ ______ - Kesler - Burrows Higgins - ______ - Kassian ______ - Richardson - Santorelli Hamhuis - ______ Garrison - Tanev Stanton - Bieksa ______ Lack These all the way, except I'd keep Lu. He's still good enough to get it done. I'd also keep Weise on the 4th, his speed really helps him drive play and that could be a decent 4th line (or have Hansen on the R.W. while Santo/ Horvat plays on the 3rd). Burr also needs to get the chance to redeem himself before he's bumped off the Twins' line IMO. Just like the Sharks, I'd give Shinkaruk at least a tryout. Don't follow Detroit's method to a tee IMO, since Shink won't be junior-eligible anymore next year and so if he's ready I'd give him a cup of coffee for the 2nd line next season. Finally, if the Twins can't lead us as top-line guys anymore I'd rather call it early and ship them off to speed up the retooling. A couple rising young guns/ top prospects/ picks in return for each Twin would jumpstart this team big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLemming Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Other than being stuck with Booth's salary... the Booth trade was a good one. Samuelsson hasn't been the same, Sturm was just a waste and both of them left Florida by the offseason. We got a guy who had potential to be a top 6. Booth's cap hit is the only downfall of the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalredane Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 LOl it still amazes me how none of the people on CDC are GMs in the NHL.... first off, we didnt LOSE lappy. We let him go... second, you fail to mention how close we were to getting doan AND clowe. They picked their other teams... WTF WAS GILLIS THINKING.... third, i still want him to get that 3rd line centre and a top 6 SURE. And you know what i bet he is working his ass off to get them. I am not the biggest Gillis supporter at all, he has made bad decisions, but you people fail to realize how you DONT WIN every god forsaken trade in the NHL. Aww we lost Roy for a bum dman who is only playing in Dallas cause their dcore is a joke. Im sure the aquillinis have trust in him for a reason, and you cant spit facts like THE OTHER GMS DONT RESPECT HIM, when you dont have any ???? evidence. STFU RELAX!!! Everything will be alright kids, everything is going to be okay... PS. if i hear the ballard trade was bad one more ???? time.... AT THE TIME OF THE TRADE IT WAS SO GOOD. Its so easy to look back and say WHAT A STUPID TRADE, but IT WASNT!!! We needed to strengthen our D. I was SO happy when that trade happened. IF you werent you clearly didnt follow hockey, or didnt follow the canucks at the time... Jesus christ. Okay, I used the word "LOSE" for Lapierre and Ehrhoff....semantics....everyone and their cat knows they left on their own accord, but might not have if we made a real run at keeping them (Ehrhoff specifically). So thanks for the spellcheck. Last time I checked....GM's and other Business CEO's aren't graded on "almost getting someone" like Doan and Clowe. Like it or not when you sit in with the boss on your job review, it is about what you have done, not what you "almost" did. Obviously you do not win every trade (see Cam Neeley trade) or many others.....but you can only be judged on your record and the record as stated in the thread is what it is. I agree with you about the "other GM's don't respect him" crap as I am sure no one on this board has any idea what the inner word is at that level. As far as the Ballard trade....yes I was also excited at the time. We needed to shore up our defense and the promise of Ballard was a good one. If anything, we need to fire our scouts that do the Florida games as Booth and Ballard did not come as advertised. For the record, I am not going to STFU and relax as you so eloquently stated. As a former officer in the Canadian Forces, I may not know what its like to be a GM, but I know how to lead people, and leaders get judged on results today, not what might happen in the future, or how they ALMOST achieved their objectives. MG has had 5 years to do things. If your leader isn't getting the results, then you move to someone who will. You and I will agree to disagree. I will always like the team, I have my whole life, but when you are selling out every game and making millions on merchandise, your expectations are raised as to what you consider a success in a GM's performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Other than being stuck with Booth's salary... the Booth trade was a good one. Samuelsson hasn't been the same, Sturm was just a waste and both of them left Florida by the offseason. We got a guy who had potential to be a top 6. Booth's cap hit is the only downfall of the trade. That is basically why it was a bad trade. Samuelsson and Sturm would have come off the books after that season or could have been moved for a less risky contract or picks but instead the Canucks got stuck with a 4+ million dollar contract for 3 more years after. Imagine the added possibilities with that much extra cap space and that is why it was a bad trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Doctor Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Let's be realistic. MG had little cap space this year and had no opportunity to buy Booth out. Yes, he has made some decisions on players that did not pan out, but thats just the way it works sometimes. The problem is this, we are paying the twins more money next year. We also need to give Tanev a raise. This just takes the money we saved on Booth's buyout. We are then in the exact same situation with the same players getting older. Our cap hit next year is almost maxed out as it is. It looks like a big long fall down the hill for Jack and Jill from here. Unless our your guys can step in and contribute, don't expect anything other than an early playoff exit or no playoffs for the next 3 years. If MG can make some big moves and change this situation, mabey we can salvage something. But at this point in time MG needs to trade and get rid of salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almo89 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 The problem is the Stanley Cup "window" we have had for a few years. This pretty much made MG to trade prospects and picks away in order to make a run. It might take a mediocre year like this season for MG to finally realize that you have to develop your prospects instead of giving them away. I rather have a couple of tough years while we let the young guys make their way to the team. Our core guys are still the same guys from the Burke/Nonis era. Mike Gillis has yet to draft and develop his own players and make them the core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking mama Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Where do we go for here? They get the hell outta of So-Cal...dial back the pugelistic mentally...& play their best skilled stiff hard-nosed hard-working hockey tonite.... & going forward. Torts is rotating-in various farm-hands for auditions with the bigger boys.....& he should also think about turfing at least one of his assistants & iring someone as an up-grade.....'cuz they desperately need some new & fresh ideas & imediate help with that very dismal PP of theirs - asap....before it's too late! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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