[Speculation] Sportsnet's Hockey Cenral: Should the Canucks consider moving Bo Horvat

[Claiborne55]

Really? After I posted his point totals you can't see that he has offensive chops? Just because he's a responsible defensive player doesn't mean he doesn't have offensive talent. He's like a less selfish Kesler, either a low end 1c or a great 2c. And with our top two centers aging we won't need that? I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Horvat makes the NHL next season, it's either the bigs or back to junior. He didn't look terribly out of place during the preseason. He'll be even better come next training camp given the rest of the season and a summer of training.

Gaunce has a lower ceiling, and is likely to spend some time seasoning in the AHL with Fox, Jensen and Shinkaruk. We don't need to rush our prospects.

Horvat does not have ideal size, he may not be a Centre in the NHL... you are just hoping he will develop... I don't get all the hype with this player.... he does nothing to an elite level... just an alround solid prospect. The only thing he truly has going for him... is all the HYPE... sell high my friend...sell high. You undervalue Andrew Ladd way too much... the guy is a leader, has size and is respected by team and community. He is already everything that you would hope for from a #9 overall draft pick.

[Claiborne55]

Because Horvat is a DEFENSE FIRST FORWARD with OFFENSIVE and 1st line potential. You don't trade that type of prospect unless you're offered something ridiculous.

You do realize he was drafted 9th... you know what that means... he was passed over. And now for some reason you trust the Canucks to draft well.

[Pears]

You do realize he was drafted 10th... you know what that means... he was passed over. And now for some reason you trust the Canucks to draft well.

9th actually. Seth Jones was drafted 4th after being penciled in at #2. Horvat's comparable Patrice Bergeron was 'passed over' until the 2nd round. But since he was 'passed over' he isn't any good right?

You're most likely just a bitter Schneider fan that will never stop whining about the trade.

[CanucksSayEh]

If it's for Kane, ROR, Voracek, JVR or someone similar. Hell yes.

[Claiborne55]

9th actually. Seth Jones was drafted 4th after being penciled in at #2. Horvat's comparable Patrice Bergeron was 'passed over' until the 2nd round. But since he was 'passed over' he isn't any good right?

You're most likely just a bitter Schneider fan that will never stop whining about the trade.

Don't be a weirdo... no one is saying he 'isn't any good'... he is just not going to the difference maker that will put this team in the Stanley Cup... you do realize he is just ONE player.

[Claiborne55]

If it's for Kane, ROR, Voracek, JVR or someone similar. Hell yes.

AGREED!!

[Coconuts]

Horvat does not have ideal size, he may not be a Centre in the NHL... you are just hoping he will develop... I don't get all the hype with this player.... he does nothing to an elite level... just an alround solid prospect. The only thing he truly has going for him... is all the HYPE... sell high my friend...sell high. You undervalue Andrew Ladd way too much... the guy is a leader, has size and is respected by team and community. He is already everything that you would hope for from a #10 overall draft pick.

Horvat could get a much better return than Ladd. As for Horvat not having ideal size, I have no idea where you're getting this stuff. Gaunce who you've got a massive hard on for is listed at 6"2 and 207 pounds according to this site's prospect listing. He's 19. Horvat is 6"0 and 206 at 18. Now I'm not bashing Gaunce, I love him as a player. But you're making Horvat, who is a year younger, out to be some sort of small guy. He's a couple inches shorter and a pound lighter. With plenty of time to grow, hmm. There goes that argument.

Here are the totals for Gaunce, this is his last year of junior.

2010-2011 Belleville Bulls OHL 65 11 25 36 40

2011-2012 Belleville Bulls OHL 68 28 40 68 68

And this season he's got 52 points in 44 games. Again, this is his final year of junior.

Now let's look at Horvat.

2011-2012 London Knights OHL 64 11 19 30 8 2012-2013 London

Knights OHL 67 33 28 61 29

2013-2014 London

Knights OHL 35 19 31 50 26

Now please remember that Bo's a year younger and still has another year of OHL eligibility.

[Claiborne55]

Horvat could get a much better return than Ladd. As for Horvat not having ideal size, I have no idea where you're getting this stuff. Gaunce who you've got a massive hard on for is listed at 6"2 and 207 pounds according to this site's prospect listing. He's 19. Horvat is 6"0 and 206 at 18. Now I'm not bashing Gaunce, I love him as a player. But you're making Horvat, who is a year younger, out to be some sort of small guy. He's a couple inches shorter and a pound lighter. With plenty of time to grow, hmm. There goes that argument.

Here are the totals for Gaunce, this is his last year of junior.

2010-2011 Belleville Bulls OHL 65 11 25 36 40

2011-2012 Belleville Bulls OHL 68 28 40 68 68

And this season he's got 52 points in 44 games. Again, this is his final year of junior.

Now let's look at Horvat.

2011-2012 London Knights OHL 64 11 19 30 8 2012-2013 London

Knights OHL 67 33 28 61 29

2013-2014 London

Knights OHL 35 19 31 50 26

Now please remember that Bo's a year younger and still has another year of OHL eligibility.

So you don't see any difference between 6'2" and 6'... so what the difference between 5'9 and 6ft. OH...there goes that argument.

Seriously.. you are going to quote Junior numbers as some authority on future NHL performance... geez... come on.... Only if it was that simple... you too could draft for the Canucks. Andrew Ladd by the way is 6ft 3in.... and 2 Stanley Cups.

You saw what Horvat did at the World Juniors against the toughest competition... ZERO points in 5 games....you think it gets easier in the NHL. He is three years away.

I just don't wanna wait... sorry .

[DownUndaCanuck]

We should move some of the deadweights on this team before we touch our future.

This team isn't going anywhere as long as players like Burrows and Edler are eating up big minutes each game, only to not produce any offence with them and instead get scored on more often than not (a combined -20)

[Coconuts]

So you don't see any difference between 6'2" and 6'... so what the difference between 5'9 and 6ft. OH...there goes that argument.

Seriously.. you are going to quote Junior numbers as some authority on future NHL performance... geez... come on.... Only if it was that simple... you too could draft for the Canucks. Andrew Ladd by the way is 6ft 3in.... and 2 Stanley Cups.

You saw what Horvat did at the World Juniors against the toughest competition... ZERO points in 5 games....you think it gets easier in the NHL. He is three years away.

I just don't wanna wait... sorry .

You're a lost cause. That average height of an NHL player is 6"-6"1. He's 18 years old.. he'll grow more. And he's a pound lighter than the supposed perfect fit for the NHL. 13/25 guys on our roster are above 6"1. 6/13 are 6"2 as opposed to 6"1. One inch. 2/7 of the guys above 6"2 are goalies.

Junior numbers are what players are drafted by. You were more than eager to cite Mantha earlier, and he's yet to play a single professional game. Kirby Rychel who's a high octane two time 40 goal scorer didn't have a single point in that seven game tourny. McDavid who's supposed to be the next Crosby has one more point than Horvat. Sam Reinhart who had two more points than Horvat is likely to go 1st overall in this coming draft. But yeah, junior numbers count for nothing.

You make it sound like Ladd was leading the charge during those runs, when he was merely a supporting player who put up 5 points in 17 games for the Hurricanes and 6 points in 19 games with the Blackhawks. Kane, Toews, Buff, and Hossa lead that Blackhawks team. Ladd was a supporting player like Versteeg, who had 14 points in 22 games during that same run. But yeah, he's going to lead a team with an injured Henrik and a slumping Daniel to the promised land. They're much better playoff performers than he's ever been. I don't get what your obsession with Ladd is, he's never topped 59 points and he's 28.

[Claiborne55]

You're a lost cause. That average height of an NHL player is 6"-6"1. He's 18 years old.. he'll grow more. And he's a pound lighter than the supposed perfect fit for the NHL. 13/25 guys on our roster are above 6"1. 6/13 are 6"2 as opposed to 6"1. One inch. 2/7 of the guys above 6"2 are goalies.

Junior numbers are what players are drafted by. You were more than eager to cite Mantha earlier, and he's yet to play a single professional game. Kirby Rychel who's a high octane two time 40 goal scorer didn't have a single point in that seven game tourny. McDavid who's supposed to be the next Crosby has one more point than Horvat. Sam Reinhart who had two more points than Horvat is likely to go 1st overall in this coming draft. But yeah, junior numbers count for nothing.

You make it sound like Ladd was leading the charge during those runs, when he was merely a supporting player who put up 5 points in 17 games for the Hurricanes and 6 points in 19 games with the Blackhawks. Kane, Toews, Buff, and Hossa lead that Blackhawks team. Ladd was a supporting player like Versteeg, who had 14 points in 22 games during that same run. But yeah, he's going to lead a team with an injured Henrik and a slumping Daniel to the promised land. They're much better playoff performers than he's ever been. I don't get what your obsession with Ladd is, he's never topped 59 points and he's 28.

All you talk about is Junior players and their potential... hey... I like the NHL watching Canucks Playoffs Hockey... that's what it is all about. Not making any changes means... just the same thing year after year. So I guess that's how you like it. Don't try and actually improve just stay in the middle of the pack is good enough for you. Well then this must be quite a satisfying season for you. Why even care about the future prospects when your level of success is set so low.

The prospects you mention are just that prospects and can only dream of having a career like Andrew Ladd... you have no respect for such an accomplishment. I don't make Andrew Ladd sound like anything... his accomplishments speak for themselves.

[sockeye]

No way in hell.

I think moving Hansen and/or Weise to a team like Winnipeg which needs better depth players could yield a good moneyball return without giving up something of supreme value.

The other thing I would consider is moving Lack to a team like the Islanders for a high end prospect (Strome or Reinhart) plus a midling pick.

I would not move Lack. Lu is 34 and who knows how many years he has left. Lack has shown he is a good goalie. He'll be the next starter. I see the value in trading Lack but it's very risky unless you have a top goalie prospect in the wings.

[Coconuts]

All you talk about is Junior players and their potential... hey... I like the NHL watching Canucks Playoffs Hockey... that's what it is all about. Not making any changes means... just the same thing year after year. So I guess that's how you like it. Don't try and actually improve just stay in the middle of the pack is good enough for you. Well then this must be quite a satisfying season for you. Why even care about the future prospects when your level of success is set so low.

The prospects you mention are just that prospects and can only dream of having a career like Andrew Ladd... you have no respect for such an accomplishment. I don't make Andrew Ladd sound like anything... his accomplishments speak for themselves.

Don't you get that this season is a throwaway season? We're not contending this year. We're in the beginning stage of a retool, and these prospects you're so willing to get rid of are going to be a big part of it. The twins are aging, so is Kesler. Our core is all hovering around the 30y mark. Danny and Hank are beyond it, so are Burrows, Bieksa, Luo, and Hamhuis. Higgins is 30. The way the Canucks have played this year they'll be lucky to make the playoffs as the third seed or as a wildcard slot. And we're not getting through Anaheim, Chicago, St. Louis, or San Jose. We aren't contenders anymore, we may be a dark horse but we're not contenders.

Fortunately management isn't willing to give up Horvat. He's what they got in the much maligned Schneider trade, he's not going anywhere. The prospects I'm talking about are our future. Our guys are going to keep aging, and next year they'll all be another year older. Sooner or later there will need to be a changing of the guard, and we'll need young, talented players like Horvat, Shinkaruk, Jensen, Fox, Hutton, Cassels, Grenier, Corrado, Tanev, Gaunce, Stanton and Lack to step up and play bigger roles.

As for Ladd, I've mentioned his playoff numbers. His "Accomplishments" are born of playing on two good teams. The 2010 team was a monster. He had 6 points. His accomplishments are team accomplishments, he's unlikely to win any personal awards at the NHL level.

[sockeye]

Don't be a weirdo... no one is saying he 'isn't any good'... he is just not going to the difference maker that will put this team in the Stanley Cup... you do realize he is just ONE player.

Do you honestly think that we are going to be in the Stanley Cup this year? I'd love it but I'm looking to the future again (with Horvat, Shink and Gaunce hopefully moving up within a year or two). Horvat is a solid prospect - likely a top 6 player.

[Claiborne55]

Don't you get that this season is a throwaway season? We're not contending this year. We're in the beginning stage of a retool, and these prospects you're so willing to get rid of are going to be a big part of it. The twins are aging, so is Kesler. Our core is all hovering around the 30y mark. Danny and Hank are beyond it, so are Burrows, Bieksa, Luo, and Hamhuis. Higgins is 30. The way the Canucks have played this year they'll be lucky to make the playoffs as the third seed or as a wildcard slot. And we're not getting through Anaheim, Chicago, St. Louis, or San Jose. We aren't contenders anymore, we may be a dark horse but we're not contenders.

Fortunately management isn't willing to give up Horvat. He's what they got in the much maligned Schneider trade, he's not going anywhere. The prospects I'm talking about are our future. Our guys are going to keep aging, and next year they'll all be another year older. Sooner or later there will need to be a changing of the guard, and we'll need young, talented players like Horvat, Shinkaruk, Corrado, Tanev, Gaunce, Stanton and Lack to step up and play bigger roles.

As for Ladd, I've mentioned his playoff numbers. His "Accomplishments" are born of playing on two good teams. The 2010 team was a monster. He had 6 points. His accomplishments are team accomplishments, he's unlikely to win any personal awards at the NHL level.

A throw away season... ridiculous!!.... They will be no closer to a Cup in three years under your plan... when Horvat is maybe contributing at an NHL level. Don't you get that... this team standing pat is going to die and is a disservice to the Core of this team. You'd be better off cheering for a team like Edmonton or Florida...they got all the prospects you would have loved 2, 3 and 4 years ago.... You'd never trade a prospect because.... WHY exactly??? yeah you would never have traded for Jeff Carter.... you just don't get how to win a Stanley Cup but I get it... you don't actually care if you win the Stanley Cup. All you care about is keeping your 'prospects' for the future. A hopeless future for you my friend.

[Claiborne55]

Do you honestly think that we are going to be in the Stanley Cup this year? I'd love it but I'm looking to the future again (with Horvat, Shink and Gaunce hopefully moving up within a year or two). Horvat is a solid prospect - likely a top 6 player.

I don't think we are with the team as is. We need to be the like the Kings two years ago and make a BOLD move..trade a Horvat and a Edler or a Tanev and then. YES... DAMN RIGHTS... we could be in the Stanley Cup finals. It's a false hope to think that three in a row of Vancouver Canucks draft picks are going to turn out. Look at our draft history. Be realistic the draft is a crap shoot.

[Light Bearer]

Why would the Jets be looking to move Ladd if he's all that? Also his teams haven't made the playoffs since he was traded out of Chicago

Van should not move Horvat for Ladd

[Coconuts]

A throw away season... ridiculous!!.... They will be no closer to a Cup in three years under your plan... when Horvat is maybe contributing at an NHL level. Don't you get that... this team standing pat is going to die and is a disservice to the Core of this team. You'd be better off cheering for a team like Edmonton or Florida...they got all the prospects you would have loved 2, 3 and 4 years ago.... You'd never trade a prospect because.... WHY exactly??? yeah you would never have traded for Jeff Carter.... you just don't get how to win a Stanley Cup but I get it... you don't actually care if you win the Stanley Cup. All you care about is keeping your 'prospects' for the future. A hopeless future for you my friend.

Uhh, that's exactly what it is. We aren't contenders anymore, and Gillis isn't the type to mortgage the future if he doesn't feel the team is going to go the distance. If he was he'd have done that during the last couple years. It's not gonna happen. No, I'm a Canucks fan. I'm just a realistic Canucks fan. We aren't contending this year. We'll be lucky to get a playoff spot and then we'll have to go through the Cali teams and Chicago. We're not rebuilding, things aren't that bad, but we are retooling.

Why? Because Horvat's more valuable than the return you're proposing. Contenders aren't going to be giving up their pieces, and we need more than a single piece to put us over the top. We probably need two top six guys and in order to get that we'd have to move prospects and likely a forward/D in return. We'd have to pay a big price to get someone to take on Booth, which isn't worth it considering we could just buy him out and save assets. If we trade a D we'll need a legitimate puck moving D back as well. And you expect to get all this by the trade deadline? You expect Gillis who's never been one to make big trades to all of a sudden uncharacteristically pull a bunch of blockbusters out of his pocket? Not gonna happen.

[nowhereman]

What's with all the "we can't move Bo unless it's for Crosby" talk? Did Bo suddenly become the second coming of Wayne?

[Coconuts]

What's with all the "we can't move Bo unless it's for Crosby" talk? Did Bo suddenly become the second coming of Wayne?

That's not what this has been. It's been debating the value of keeping Bo as opposed to moving him. And keeping prospects as opposed to moving them I suppose.