BananaMash Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I would argue AV hindered his development more. He barely even played for the Sabres lol. Anyways, bottom line is players like Ritchie and Kassian take lots of time to adjust in the NHL because they can no longer bully their way through teenagers. We size gets neutralized, all that matters is skill. Merci will argue that it doesn't matter because Ritchie is skilled, since he doesn't understand that being a monster in size can indirectly help when playing against kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merci Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Merci will argue that it doesn't matter because Ritchie is skilled, since he doesn't understand that being a monster in size can indirectly help when playing against kids. No I acknowledge that, but I also acknowledge his skill set and IQ let him excel beyond his physicality. The entire package is why he's a generational player. There is literally a handful ofp layers like him in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaMash Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 No I acknowledge that, but I also acknowledge his skill set and IQ let him excel beyond his physicality. The entire package is why he's a generational player. There is literally a handful ofp layers like him in the league. He's not a generational player though, if he was a generational player he'd go in the top five in what is a weak draft year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JE14 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 No I acknowledge that, but I also acknowledge his skill set and IQ let him excel beyond his physicality. The entire package is why he's a generational player. There is literally a handful ofp layers like him in the league. If he's as good as you say, why isn't he going first overall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCKS FTW! Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 No I acknowledge that, but I also acknowledge his skill set and IQ let him excel beyond his physicality. The entire package is why he's a generational player. There is literally a handful ofp layers like him in the league. A big guy dominating in junior is VERY misleading sometimes. Their size makes them very hard to contain which allows them to go into areas to score uncontested. Funny you mention complete package because Kassian was also said to be the complete package that is good offensively and defensively, yet he struggles defensively at times in the NHL. I remember watching Kassian in the WJC and he was epic on the pk against Czech Republic because no one was strong enough to push him off the puck when he trapped it against the boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSniper88 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCKS FTW! Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 No I acknowledge that, but I also acknowledge his skill set and IQ let him excel beyond his physicality. The entire package is why he's a generational player. There is literally a handful ofp layers like him in the league. So you're saying hes gonna be in the same class as Crosby and Ovechkin? The term "generational player" is reserved for players that are going to be superstars. Ritchie hasn't played one game against players older than 21 and you're already labeling him a generational player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 There is NO way the Canucks will draft Kapanen at 6th. You better hope we get another draft pick or you'll be cheering for him on another team. Great reasoning. Here's the point though…. If you don't have much knowledge of Lehkonen then how can you have so much more of Kapanen? They play on the same team, on the same line often, and Lehkonen has been on the radar a year longer. Surely, if assessments were being based off of more than online scouting reports, of which are of dubious reliability, and short youtube videos then any knowledge of Lehkonen's game should be equally well known. Short video clips don't encompass all of a player's attributes or effect on game play because they cherry pick certain highlights and leave aside what a player does away from the puck and in situations were there is not a goal produced. It also leaves aside the plays they get victimized on. Lehkonen outscored Kapanen based on draft year comparables when playing on the same team, in the same league, against the same aged players. Lehkonen's offensive game was actually much more advanced at this stage than Kapanen's. Kapanen may be a fairly safe bet but most teams don't draft a player with good defense to fall back on at the 6th spot unless they are either the best in the world for their age or are expected to have all world offence as well. I thought there seems the consensus that size didn't matter much? Also that they are playing in a men's league and have room to grow. The same reasoning should apply to both players. Especially considering there is very little difference between Kapanen and Lehkonen. Forget what you read on websites, watch the game play and you will see they are virtually identical in size. Kapanen may be the more complete player. He may have better top end speed. I don't think he has much of an edge, if at all, in any other category. Lehkonen has arguably better passing, shot, stick handling, and hockey sense. Again, refer to the size argument above. Kapanen may be a tier above but not enough to justify the disparity in how you two are ranking him compared to Lehkonen. IMHO the same potential warning flags exist between the two players. Being able to watch them on the same ice allows scouts a clear picture of their attributes versus the same opponents. Well, Lehkonen is a year older, that might have maybe played a part year & this year, you know after all Kapanen was 16 & now 17 this year. You bring up stats, Finnish fans close to the scene have brought up how much worse the team is this year than last, Lehkonen played with a PPG player on his line last year Sakari Salminen (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player), and Kapanen hasn't had as good linemates or as good a team overall. Other things to consider is that Lehkonen had suffered two concussions last year before the draft & a broken ankle, Kapanen hasn't. Those things likely dropped him to the 2nd round when he would have had a chance to go late 1st, aswell the draft last year was deeper with more 1st round talent. I followed Lehkonen last year since we had a late pick & I maintain what I said in the lasst post, Lehkonen is a high offensive scorer who plays hard & battles, but the only area I would say he matches/comes close to Kapanen in is scoring ability. And I definitely think Kapanen's game is going to better translate to NA hockey which is why I want him, I think he's game is really made for the north american style. Where as Lehkonen is a bit of a risk. I don't think his game will translate quite as good. I was looking on HF today & I saw this from a Kalpa fan (I'm sure he would be a good source) As a fan of KalPa who has seen A LOT of Kapanen and Lehkonen, Kapanen is by far the superior prospect. His skating is from different planet. Kapanen is a lot more physical, Kapanen has a lot better puckhandling skills and his ceiling is notably higher than Lehkonen's. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=83422895&postcount=22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I don't know, if trading down still in to the top 10 meant we still got a great player plus say a 2nd and 3rd....would you do it? Say to the Canes or the Jets our 1st for their 1st 2nd and 3rd. Would you consider it Elvis? It'd all depend on how high I am on the players available, and if the player(s) I'm high on would still be available if I wanted to trade down (or if they're already gone at #6). I wouldn't want to miss out on a player I did really like and have to settle for one I was marginal on, so what the Canucks thoughts are on that will factor in for sure. Then again I guess we could then trade the 8th or 9th overall again for something else. Wash, rinse, repeat until we get enough quantity to offset the quality we'd be potentially losing and we finally find a spot where we feel we can pick a very good value player considering the spot. I probably wouldn't go that far though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklas Bo Hunter Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Fla- ekblad Buff-reinhart Edm- Bennet Cal-dal colle NYI- draisaitl Van- nylander Car- Ritchie Tor-Perlini Wpg- ehlers Van ( from ana (from ott))- kapenen Van trade: Kesler for 10th overall, Theodore, 2nd 2015 or 1st 2014 (vans choice) My prediction of the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I don't believe Buffalo hindered Kassian development either, I agree with the guy who said AV hindered it more than anyone. No I acknowledge that, but I also acknowledge his skill set and IQ let him excel beyond his physicality. The entire package is why he's a generational player. There is literally a handful ofp layers like him in the league. If he was a generational player he would be the slam dunk first overall pick, and he would have gotten McDavid like coverage & been known as a super prospect since he was 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 It'd all depend on how high I am on the players available, and if the player(s) I'm high on would still be available if I wanted to trade down (or if they're already gone at #6). I wouldn't want to miss out on a player I did really like and have to settle for one I was marginal on, so what the Canucks thoughts are on that will factor in for sure. Then again I guess we could then trade the 8th or 9th overall again for something else. Wash, rinse, repeat until we get enough quantity to offset the quality we'd be potentially losing and we finally find a spot where we feel we can pick a very good value player considering the spot. I probably wouldn't go that far though. I find it hard to think we couldn't do well with an extra 2nd and 3rd and say the 7th or 9th for our 6th in this years draft. Players like Fiala, Goldobin, Deangelo, Demko, Lemiuex, Cornel all available. I'd seriously have to consider it when we can almost guarantee 1 of the 3 big europeans in Nylander, Kapanen or Ehlers or one of the big 3 PWFs in Virtanen, Perlini or Ritchie will be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I find it hard to think we couldn't do well with an extra 2nd and 3rd and say the 7th or 9th for our 6th in this years draft. Players like Fiala, Goldobin, Deangelo, Demko, Lemiuex, Cornel all available. I'd seriously have to consider it when we can almost guarantee 1 of the 3 big europeans in Nylander, Kapanen or Ehlers or one of the big 3 PWFs in Virtanen, Perlini or Ritchie will be available. I think only Demko, Lemieux, Cornel will be avaliable maybe Goldobin, DeAngelo but not Fiala. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCKS FTW! Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I suggest that Draisaitl and Dal Colle be removed from the poll since it is likely that management will snatch whoever slides out of the top 5. I think it is better to have a poll to include players that we have the most chance to pick. I bet we are all curious to see how the 162 votes currently committed to Dal Colle and Draisaitl will impact the debate of whether to pick Ehlers, Ritchie, Virtanen,Nylander or Kaspanen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Nylander with a monster 5 point game in U 18 championship today, 5points (3 goals, 2 assists) in a 6-2 win over Slovakia. I have him over Kasperi Kapanen who had zero points today and doesn't seem to be having a great tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCKS FTW! Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Nylander with a monster 5 point game in U 18 championship today, 5points (3 goals, 2 assists) in a 6-2 win over Slovakia. I have him over Kasperi Kapanen who had zero points today and doesn't seem to be having a great tournament. Great the Islanders might draft Nylander now and we are left with Dal Colle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I suggest that Draisaitl and Dal Colle be removed from the poll since it is likely that management will snatch whoever slides out of the top 5. I think it is better to have a poll to include players that we have the most chance to pick. I bet we are all curious to see how the 162 votes currently committed to Dal Colle and Draisaitl will impact the debate of whether to pick Ehlers, Ritchie, Virtanen,Nylander or Kaspanen. I agree. Draisaitl and Dal Colle should be removed from the poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I find it hard to think we couldn't do well with an extra 2nd and 3rd and say the 7th or 9th for our 6th in this years draft. Players like Fiala, Goldobin, Deangelo, Demko, Lemiuex, Cornel all available. I'd seriously have to consider it when we can almost guarantee 1 of the 3 big europeans in Nylander, Kapanen or Ehlers or one of the big 3 PWFs in Virtanen, Perlini or Ritchie will be available. And if your scouting staff was coming back to you and saying there are enough flaws with Kapanen, Ehlers, Virtane and Perlini that they wouldn't even use a 9th pick on them, would you still do it and hope one of Nylander or Ritchie don't get taken? Is it worth it then if the talent at the 9th drops off so significantly that the extra picks in subsequent rounds don't make up the difference in value? That's all I'm trying to say. Any of those players could have red flags at the combine or during interviews, or they could all look to be studs. If we have a high pick like that, even in a weaker draft, and we feel we'll get a better player at 6th than at 9th I'll use it rather than gamble on an extra 2nd and 3rd rounder. Just to play devil's advocate though, I could see if they felt the picks from 6-10 were pretty close and they had good scouting reports on a few players projected to go in the next round(s). If they felt they could benefit more from those later picks than by 3 earlier spots in the 1st round then maybe they do it. I suggest that Draisaitl and Dal Colle be removed from the poll since it is likely that management will snatch whoever slides out of the top 5. I think it is better to have a poll to include players that we have the most chance to pick. I bet we are all curious to see how the 162 votes currently committed to Dal Colle and Draisaitl will impact the debate of whether to pick Ehlers, Ritchie, Virtanen,Nylander or Kaspanen. Yeah I specifically didn't vote for them thinking they wouldn't be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 No I acknowledge that, but I also acknowledge his skill set and IQ let him excel beyond his physicality. The entire package is why he's a generational player. There is literally a handful ofp layers like him in the league. As per TSN draft evaluator: 10 - Generational (Sidney Crosby, Alexander Ovechkin, Evgeni Malkin ) 9 - Elite Player (Ilya Kovalchuk, Daniel Sedin, Henrik Sedin ) 8 - First Line, Top Pair D (Eric Staal, Ryan Suter ) 7 - Top Six Forward, Top Four D (Stephen Weiss, Brooks Orpik ) 6 - Top Nine Forward, Top Six D (Matt Cullen, Toni Lydman ) 5 - NHL Regular (Michael Rupp, Mark Fistric) 4 - Fringe NHLer (Jamie Lundmark, Jeff Finger ) 3 - Very Good Minor Leaguer (Krys Kolanos, Doug Janik ) 2 - Minor Leaguer, maybe gets a shot in NHL (Matt Ellison, Nate Guenin ) 1 - Under a handful of NHL games (Hugh Jessiman, A.J. Thelen ) You may like him a lot, but Ritchie is not a generational player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Ana: Kesler Van: 10th overall 2014, 1st round 2015, Sami Vatanen Car: Edler Van: 7th overall 2104, Brock McGinn 6th: Ritchie 7th: Nylander 10th: Fleury Ritchie-Nylander-Jensen Shinkaruk-Horvat-Kassian Gaunce-Cassels-Grenier Fox-Lain-Mallet Fleury-Tanev Vatanen-Corrado Cederholm-Hutton Subban Lack Markstrom Eriksson Cannata Pretty good foundation we would still have two 1sts next year in 2015, meaning two in three straight years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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