6th Pick: 2014 NHL Entry Draft

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

BanTSN be trollin' hard and arguing for the sake of argument.

Guy's probably got the biggest woody out of it right now.

[BanTSN]

BanTSN be trollin' hard and arguing for the sake of argument.

Guy's probably got the biggest woody out of it right now.

Trolling? No. Just stating obviousnesses. Wait, why am i even responding to you?

We need size. We have guys with size already, but not much scoring is coming from them. So we need size with scoring. This is what will get us to be able to compete with Anaheim, LA and San Jose. Even San Jose's chokers, Jumbo and Marleau, are still going to roll on our top players, the twins, more often than not.

This impression that Nylander and Ehlers' 'mad skillz' are enough to trump this fact is just false. They will be buried every shift against these teams.

Perhaps if they had elite skill like MacKinnon we could consider it, but they don't. Nylander can't even light up the SHL and Ehlers was overshadowed very much by Drouin in the Q. Both are years and years away from being NHLers, and even then they're still going to be buried by our divisional opponents.

Benning addressed this on day one. He wants/NEEDS a team that can play that type of game that's been well-established, like, forever, as what's needed to win important games with. He's seen his Sabres lose because of this and his Bruins win because of this. Think he's learned?

Linden knows it too. The Canucks lost in '94 because the Rangers had more skilled size than the Canucks, led by that dirty sob Messier, who happens to be one of the biggest, baddest players of all time. Think Linden learned?

There is no way in hell either guy is looking at undersized preseason flash-types as franchise saviours. At least they bloody well shouldn't be.

[RustyShackleford]

Nylander +1. I cant wait for the canucks to add either Nylander or ehlers their game breaking highend skill will make watching the canucks fun agian. Hopefully Vancouver stays away from the 2 so far injury prone players ritchie and virtanen the canucks need more offensive skill players instead of more depth IR players like the 2 of them.

[Plum]

Weight, not height, is what matters.

Kassian may be a 3rd liner.

Lain may be a 4th.

Zalewski? Who?

Jensen has been concussed twice already and won't be known for throwing his weight around.

Horvat may be a great 3rd line center or a good 2nd line center.

Matthias is also a 3rd line-type.

So you see, we still need size. Scoring-capable size. And that means 'playmaker' Nylander, ie. easily brushed-off perimeter type with far less skill than either Sedin, isn't needed. And Shinkaruk we will be praying pans out to anything after his hip surgery.

Other than that we agree though...

So Ritchie or Virtanen are going to be 1st line guys who score 60 points and still are physical beasts? I doubt it, they don't have the skill level of Nylander. All they have is size over Nylander, Nylander is the better offensive player.

If you want a player with skill and size, look for Leon Draisaitl, put up the same amount of points as Reinhart and as big as Virtanen.

[RustyShackleford]

Actually, when you lay it out like that it sounds like we could use some top line forwards in our prospect pool, not more 3rd/2nd tweeners.

Yes for sure. The only 2 players beside the top 5 who have top line skill set are Nylander and Ehlers. With the 6 pick the Canucks need to add someone with top 6 foward skill not more 3rd or 4th line depth players

[elvis15]

I have not seen anyone state that focusing on smaller players is a sound primary strategy for drafting; rather, I believe the primary strategy in these situations is drafting skill. The same could be said for focusing on players just because they are big - not a good strategy.

I would like to see this data which describes the correlation between size and production; however, I would bet that it pales in comparison to the strong positive correlation between SKILL and point production.

Correlation does not always equal causation. Success in the NHL is dependent on many more variables than just size or skill.

Basically my thoughts. I haven't seen people saying we should draft more Brandon Reid's with our pick, nor have I seen people saying we should draft more Taylor Pyatt's. That is too simplistic a statement to say size is a strategy.

[Smashian Kassian]

Interesting interview with GMJB this afternoon on TEAM 1040. There is a thread and a link and he had some interesting things to say on what will happen. When asked about the upcoming draft Benning said "I like this draft class...the top six players and we pick six right now, I really like the top six guys so whatever guy we end up with at six I am going to be happy with and with that 36th pick we have identified some guys that are going to be there...and in the mid rounds too we have a good feel for from other parts of the world..."

Obviously he is vague on who the players they are targeting at around their picks. What is interesting to me is that according to Benning, who I trust as a good talent evaluator, there is a top six not a top five. I was wondering if the CDC consensus player for that sixth spot is Nylander or is it Ehlers or?

Ya its interesting but I can see it, Nylander & Ehlers are both guys who could potentially be grouped into that top group IMO.

With Nylander's combine & U18 I would bet on it being him, but if any teams had either or both of them in the top group of talent I would certainly not be surprised.

your just finding an excuse to separate the 2

Shinkaruk falls into the category of speedy under 6'0 offensive winger.

Nylander too also falls under that category under 6'0 speedy offensive winger. Limited physical attritbutes, as hitting is not his game. if he's not scoring for you, he's doing nothing for your team

Mean while, the same with Ehlers

Ritchie 6'3 220 offensive truculent winger who hits and generates offense and or a fights

Virtannen soon to be 6'2 215 offensive winger who hits and generates offense. If those 2 are not generating offence, they will still be a physical presence, and will likely maintain their physical play.

Not even close, and why the hell should we be drafting a under sized play maker? doesn't make sense. I tell you this. if this draft happened 9 10 or 11 years ago.....

Probably be Nylander and or Ehlers locked into the 6 position, but the NHL today is no longer like the 80's or 90's or even the early 2000's. Physical play can get the best of offence nowadays, as we seen it, i'm not saying offense won't prevail no more, no! that's not what I mean, sure their is still Chicago, but nowadays, because of todays NHL, guys Like Virtannan and Ritchie are rated much higher. Chicago won the cup last year!. yes look at the final 4 teams. Consists of L.A and Boston. Boston got the best of Pittsbrugh in 4 games, made it to the finals, won the cup in 2011, this year, L.A was able to go up 3-1 on Chicago.

also love the underratedness of Brenden Perlini. LOL. sure he's not a physical player for a 6'3 body, but man..... the guy is one hell of a sniper and a excellent play maker. Perlini has James Neal written all over him, its no joke.

No one is saying no against small players, if you look at it many of these small players are note even drafted in the 1st round. teams will usually take their risks on these guys in beyond the 2nd round.

At the same time, if your hockey club is doing everything except scoring, you won't win hockey games.

So it goes both ways.

And grouping Shinkaruk & Nylander together due to similar size & being offensive players is far too simplistic IMO. They are quite different players that do different things.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Thinking Virtanen has more transferability than Nylander. Kid looks real good, with and without the puck. Just needs to work on consistency and using his teammates more. Less of an issue than 'must gain 20-30lbs.' Esp. with an a-rated shot and a-rated speed.

[baumerman77]

Thinking Virtanen has more transferability than Nylander. Kid looks real good, with and without the puck. Just needs to work on consistency and using his teammates more. Less of an issue than 'must gain 20-30lbs.' Esp. with an a-rated shot and a-rated speed.

I agree. Virtanen skillset looks to be better suited for the NHL.

[baumerman77]

I have not seen anyone state that focusing on smaller players is a sound primary strategy for drafting; rather, I believe the primary strategy in these situations is drafting skill. The same could be said for focusing on players just because they are big - not a good strategy.

I would like to see this data which describes the correlation between size and production; however, I would bet that it pales in comparison to the strong positive correlation between SKILL and point production.

Correlation does not always equal causation. Success in the NHL is dependent on many more variables than just size or skill.

For hockey the causal mechanism doesn't need to be established.

I agree skill is the most important criterion but if a player doesn't reach a certain size he can't implement his skill-set. Remember Nic Petan why do you think he went 43rd overall last year? It wasn't because of a lack of skill...

[Junkyard Dog]

Thinking Virtanen has more transferability than Nylander. Kid looks real good, with and without the puck. Just needs to work on consistency and using his teammates more. Less of an issue than 'must gain 20-30lbs.' Esp. with an a-rated shot and a-rated speed.

Nylander has a way higher ceiling. He may go top 5 after his combine and the U-18's.

[Smashian Kassian]

Thinking Virtanen has more transferability than Nylander. Kid looks real good, with and without the puck. Just needs to work on consistency and using his teammates more. Less of an issue than 'must gain 20-30lbs.' Esp. with an a-rated shot and a-rated speed.

Lacking hockey sense is a bigger issue than being an 18 year old kid needing to put on weight IMO.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Nylander has a way higher ceiling. He may go top 5 after his combine and the U-18's.

Maybe. But i think it's a question if that ceiling being realized. Could take awhile. I think somebody said 10 years. But don't recall entirely. Long thread.

The combine, dog and pony show as it is, shouldn't affect much. He had a good tourney, but I was just as impressed by Virtanen. Esp. after learning he had a shoulder ailment at the time.

He's 200lbs now. Imagine him being a 215-220lb wrecking ball with dynamic scoring ability including his a-rated shot and speed. Very enticing.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Lacking hockey sense is a bigger issue than being an 18 year old kid needing to put on weight IMO.

I wonder how he scores all those goals with no hockey sense. Does he do it all on his own then? Well that's very good too.

Or maybe he has hockey sense after all. After watching him a lot, yes he could pass a bit more, but the goals from thin air are a big plus. Also he offers more options playing without the puck. He takes pucks away a lot and is fairly reliable on the backcheck. At least when compared to Nylander and Ehlers. From what i've seen at least.

Virtanen's main prob. is consistency. After he's back from shoulder rehab i fully expect him to really take off as a prospect.

[Ossi Vaananen]

Zalewski looks good though, BanTSN.If I recall correctly it looked like he could have had 3 assists in the last game of the season, there was always the extra ricochet though. He's big and skates well, really all you need for bottom 6. THat's after some time in Utica of course.

I'm glad to see the Virtanen love coming back. He's honestly the safest bet outside of the consensus top 5. He plays the NA game, skates well, physical body and can score. The added bonus to all this is he's still 17, and will be until training camp. He doesn't have the big question marks surrounding his size, attitude, smaller ice play, or his compete level. He was the perfect candidate until the shoulder surgery, and I hope he's going to be just as good afterwards.

Another bonus to Virtanen is his bite, and his ability to play in opponent's faces and chirp the hell out of them. This is what cup teams need.

[Smashian Kassian]

I wonder how he scores all those goals with no hockey sense. Does he do it all on his own then? Well that's very good too.

Or maybe he has hockey sense after all. After watching him a lot, yes he could pass a bit more, but the goals from thin air are a big plus. Also he offers more options playing without the puck. He takes pucks away a lot and is fairly reliable on the backcheck. At least when compared to Nylander and Ehlers. From what i've seen at least.

Virtanen's main prob. is consistency. After he's back from shoulder rehab i fully expect him to really take off as a prospect.

I didn't say he has no hockey sense. Its just seems like whenever he gets the puck its him against the world.

He scores goals with his oustanding wrister, and great shooting ability. He gets himself in spaces to score. I worry he will get more easily shut down in the NHL, where he won't overpower guys like he does in junior. He also sometimes crosses the line as far as attitude, but that's not a huge issue, he's a young guy he will learn to become a pro as he gains experience.

Those are the issues that hold him back from having as high potential as players like Nylander & Ehlers in my opinion.

However I do think he will be a good 2nd line goal scorer with a physical edge. I just think at pick #6 there are better options.

I don't think his willingness to play a defensive game is any higher than Ehlers, I think Ehlers has the advantage there honestly, Nylander on the other hand, while not being as bad as people think, I would give the advantage to Virtanen aswell. The defensive side of things isn't really something I worry about with Ehlers or Virtanen.

[Junkyard Dog]

Maybe. But i think it's a question if that ceiling being realized. Could take awhile. I think somebody said 10 years. But don't recall entirely. Long thread.

The combine, dog and pony show as it is, shouldn't affect much. He had a good tourney, but I was just as impressed by Virtanen. Esp. after learning he had a shoulder ailment at the time.

He's 200lbs now. Imagine him being a 215-220lb wrecking ball with dynamic scoring ability including his a-rated shot and speed. Very enticing.

We need people that can pass when the Sedins retire though. Nylander will be ready by then or even before.

Offensive hockey is Canucks hockey.

[Pez]

I hope we take the guy with the most skill.

[elvis15]

For hockey the causal mechanism doesn't need to be established.

I agree skill is the most important criterion but if a player doesn't reach a certain size he can't implement his skill-set. Remember Nic Petan why do you think he went 43rd overall last year? It wasn't because of a lack of skill...

Part of the same reason why Schroeder dropped. But then they're both players at 5'9"/5'8", and we're talking about players who are 5'11", so 2-3 inches difference, and then talking about players with size at 6'0" to 6'2", 1-3 inches difference.

So weight was brought up versus height earlier, and that's maybe a bit different but if Nylander is 180 lbs now for instance, and people aren't worried about size with someone like Dal Colle, who was at 171 lbs prior to the combine but in a 6'2" frame, then why are we worried about weight with Nylander?

Neither of the players we're talking about are so much smaller that they're in the same category as Petan or others that have obviously fallen due to their size.

[Down by the River]

Although I don't have too strong an opinion on who is better between Nylander and Ritchie, if the Canucks draft Nylander, watching the fallout from BanTSN will be pretty entertaining.