Darius Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Connect the dots here.... Multiple players having career worst years. Prior to this season Canucks were a top tier regular season team for 3 years in a row. This is essentially the same lineup as the past two years. Why does this team look worse than Buffalo and Edmonton right now? Too many bad things going on for this all to be a coincidence.... I think that the coach has to take the brunt of this. Wrong players for his system. When I saw Henrik dumping it in multiple times during several games I knew Torts has to take some of the blame. Sure Gillis hasnt made the smartest moves, and there wasnt a franchise changing move today but when there is a post mortem and they look at reasons for why the train went off of the rails you have to look at two significant factors: 1. Tortorella and his antics and his system 2. Gillis and his complete butchering of the Schnieder and Luongo saga. Bottom line - this team is not as bad as the standings indicate. Torts and Gilis are the main problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Hockey Place Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 All said and done, not a lot of talent under 30 years old was traded. The only 1st round pick moved was in the Callahan - St. Louis trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Faulk Yourself Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think it's safer to assume Kesler's value will rise at the draft rather than decline. a 5M cap hit once that cap goes up 8M in the off-season can prove to be a very enticing contract. I'd rather wait until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Påhlsson Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Gillis to Canucks ownership, that's why he's standing in the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerAids Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Mike gillis is a crapty GM Welcome to the dark years - not good enough to get out of the first round, too good for a top pick, overaged assets with NTCs. We're Calgary. Buddy, we won't be Calgary unless we continue down this same path for at least 2 more seasons. Teams have off years, almost every player is under producing this year, it's just unsustainable for the team to continue performing this poorly. Look at Montreal a few years ago, they had a terrible year and were near the bottom of the league after being in the top 10 the year before, now they are right back near the top with the same core group of players. As with most things, it's never as good or as bad as it seems at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerAids Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Apparently Detroit contacted them and we said they didn't have what we needed. Brutal, I woulda taken a Detroit package How do you know what was offered? I doubt it would have included guys like nyquist or mantha, and after them who would we get that could replace Kesler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wshdrvvn Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Connect the dots here.... Multiple players having career worst years. Prior to this season Canucks were a top tier regular season team for 3 years in a row. This is essentially the same lineup as the past two years. Why does this team look worse than Buffalo and Edmonton right now? Too many bad things going on for this all to be a coincidence.... I think that the coach has to take the brunt of this. Wrong players for his system. When I saw Henrik dumping it in multiple times during several games I knew Torts has to take some of the blame. Sure Gillis hasnt made the smartest moves, and there wasnt a franchise changing move today but when there is a post mortem and they look at reasons for why the train went off of the rails you have to look at two significant factors: 1. Tortorella and his antics and his system 2. Gillis and his complete butchering of the Schnieder and Luongo saga. Bottom line. you don't think conference re-alignment had anything to do with it? we had run roughshod over the weak pacific div for years. huge factor right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ṣpiderman Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Buddy, we won't be Calgary unless we continue down this same path for at least 2 more seasons. Teams have off years, almost every player is under producing this year, it's just unsustainable for the team to continue performing this poorly. Look at Montreal a few years ago, they had a terrible year and were near the bottom of the league after being in the top 10 the year before, now they are right back near the top with the same core group of players. As with most things, it's never as good or as bad as it seems at the time. We've have pretty bad years. Especially those first round playoff exits without scoring goals. Getting swept by the Sharks. If having a good regular season satisfies you, then this team is a long ways from a Stanley Cup. Regular season means nothing. When the games matter, we don't show up. When the game tightens up, we can't score. This team has been bad for several years now. Our prospects blow, ranked one of the worst in the league (despite what CDC thinks, since they only know about Canuck prospects). We also fed on the worst division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 If we couldn't get OUR price, we did what's right. The problem is, OUR price was too high. Kesler is NOT equal to St. Louis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerAids Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 This kind of speaks volumes to me. Unless it's "after the fact", at which point I'd still expect MG to be more engaged. I don't think one random picture is enough to make an informed observation. I'm sure he was very involved today, hence why nothing happened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 you don't think conference re-alignment had anything to do with it? we had run roughshod over the weak pacific div for years. huge factor right there. Some of it....but i think that the perception that the Canucks feasted on Calgary/Edmonton/Colorado is overinflated. Everyone else in the conference played those teams too....granted not as much....but you dont win Presidents trophies and finish in the top tier for a few years in a row by not being a good all around regular season team. This team hit a wall in January - i think that Torts' system, his miscalculation of western conference travel, coupled with his insistence on riding the same guys for almost half a game every game is largely to blame for this absolute mess. Did he factor in the amount of energy it takes the Sedins to play their type of game before he was riding them like mules? Its no wonder that both of them got injured for significant periods this year and their production has plummeted. Since when do the Sedins play dump and chase. Not trying to be argumentative with you as I do agree that their stats were slightly inflated by the NW division opponents. But I think that there are too many things that have all gone south at the same time to be a coincidence. Torts is not the right guy for this cast of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerAids Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 We've have pretty bad years. Especially those first round playoff exits without scoring goals. Getting swept by the Sharks. If having a good regular season satisfies you, then this team is a long ways from a Stanley Cup. Regular season means nothing. When the games matter, we don't show up. When the game tightens up, we can't score. This team has been bad for several years now. Our prospects blow, ranked one of the worst in the league (despite what CDC thinks, since they only know about Canuck prospects). We also fed on the worst division I'm not saying this core will turn around and win a cup all of a sudden, but these things can't just happen overnight, teams aren't just lining up to give us their best young prospects for our under performing vets. The only way out of this situation is with patience, smart drafting (which I think we've done lately) and hopefully a trade or two at the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerAids Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 The problem is, OUR price was too high. Kesler is NOT equal to St. Louis. You don't think kes has more value than MSL at this stage of their careers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Last year Matthias was Florida's most productive goal scorer. If given the opportunity he could help us in that department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_Duck Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 As if you need to ask. He will sulk and dissappear IMHO. I'll go the other way. He will still be night in night out our top forward. Disgustingly, I'll bet you're both right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 IMO St. Louis is the minature version of Craig Janney (which Vancouver gave up). (see what I did there?) I'm not even sure Kesler is happy about being held in Vancouver longer, are they going to repeat what they did with Luongo and deal with Kesler in the off season or next year? Also, some very interesting trades this year around the league, Gaborik to LA? That's adding more punch to an already decent offense, and Halak to WSH? That's Stanley Cup contender there if they can keep up the playoff chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wshdrvvn Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Some of it....but i think that the perception that the Canucks feasted on Calgary/Edmonton/Colorado is overinflated. Everyone else in the conference played those teams too....granted not as much....but you dont win Presidents trophies and finish in the top tier for a few years in a row by not being a good all around regular season team. This team hit a wall in January - i think that Torts' system, his miscalculation of western conference travel, coupled with his insistence on riding the same guys for almost half a game every game is largely to blame for this absolute mess. Did he factor in the amount of energy it takes the Sedins to play their type of game before he was riding them like mules? Its no wonder that both of them got injured for significant periods this year and their production has plummeted. Since when do the Sedins play dump and chase. Not trying to be argumentative with you as I do agree that their stats were slightly inflated by the NW division opponents. But I think that there are too many things that have all gone south at the same time to be a coincidence. Torts is not the right guy for this cast of players. NW division* my bad. im hardly arguing though, this season has been frustrating. this team looked like world beaters in december. i look at that game in phoenix when hanzal injured santo and hank as the turning point this year. henrik simply hasn't been the same since and mike santorelli was a much bigger piece of this team than we ever realized. there isn't anyone on the roster (other than kes) who can play torts system as efficiently as santorelli was. you don't need a team of PKers but when you lose one of your best special teams players and a main contributor, the teams entire game is negatively effected. other teams survive losing players like that with organizational depth. our depth just isn't AHL eligible yet and it shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kenobi Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 "Did he factor in the amount of energy it takes the Sedins to play their type of game before he was riding them like mules? Its no wonder that both of them got injured for significant periods this year and their production has plummeted. Since when do the Sedins play dump and chase." So we blame Torts for Daniel and Henrik's complete disappearance. Personally, I think they are done. Sometimes it takes a long time, and sometimes, it just happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wshdrvvn Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'm not even sure Kesler is happy about being held in Vancouver longer, are they going to repeat what they did with Luongo and deal with Kesler in the off season or next year? i'm worried about this too. i would hate to be sitting here at next year's deadline saying "we shoulda traded him last season with a year left on his contract. his value was so much higher." cause seriously, what if he did ask for a trade? his trade value will be less next year; what if we have to settle for peanuts because he might intend to test the free agent market? i'll say, that sutter, despres, 1st & 3rd offer would end up looking pretty sweet in hindsight ala Lu for Kadri and Bozak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 "Did he factor in the amount of energy it takes the Sedins to play their type of game before he was riding them like mules? Its no wonder that both of them got injured for significant periods this year and their production has plummeted. Since when do the Sedins play dump and chase." So we blame Torts for Daniel and Henrik's complete disappearance. Personally, I think they are done. Sometimes it takes a long time, and sometimes, it just happens. I think he has had a lot to do with it. Riding those guys for 25 minutes per game, with the style they play (fighting for puck posession on the boards all night vs a floating rushing style takes up a lot more energy) has a lot to do with it. You dont go from Art Ross and Lester Pearson awards to not being able to score for months within such a short time frame. Getting those guys to dump and chase and play half the game with no secondary scoring has destroyed the first line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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