[Official] Toronto Blue Jays Major League Baseball thread

[oldnews]

8 hours ago, ShakyWalton said:

Is this the start of Shapiros big moves after 40 games...what a useless trade this was,,, trade away our only true leadoff man in Ben Revere..who led the league in hits for this guy...Im afraid of your next moves Shapiro....

 

It's been a rough go for reliever Drew Storen in his first season with the Toronto Blue Jays. According to Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun, the Jays have made Storen available on the trade market.

Storen, who was acquired from the Washington Nationals for outfielder Ben Revere in the off-season, has struggled mightily in 2016. The 28-year-old owns a 0-2 record with a 7.80 ERA and a 1.73 WHIP over 15 innings pitched this season, his seventh in the Majors.

Still can't believe they inflicted Shapiro on us.

I suppose when weak ownership is blessed with better management than they deserve over time, it's bound to come around. 

 

But what annoys me even more is the possibility that there is something to this rumour - and it looks true by all accounts, with mulitple sources referring to the Jays floating Storen's name.

To turn around and sell an asset like that so quickly - after 15 innings - when his value has bottomed out - shows an utter lack of confidence in your scouting and belief in the player you acquired.  After a small sample like that - if he's already prepared to dump-sale that asset, imo it shows a real lack of backbone.  

It's one thing to look to add an arm, upgrade your bullpen, but to be shopping Storen is weak.

You made that move based upon what exactly?  If there was anything to the scouting and intel that informed that decision, then at least you stick with it to see if the player rebounds.  Almost any player will have a quarter-season stretch where they struggle at some point.  If you need to add a reliever, what are you going to get for Storen at present?  

 

Looks like the impression Shapiro gives - that he's an annoying dimwit - is what it is.

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by oldnews

[Xbox]

4 hours ago, Down by the River said:

You've got rose coloured glasses on. Best catcher in the league hitting less than .175 with over 160 ABs. Zero HR in 40 games. Navarro called just as strong a game as Martin. I've said in the past that Martin is my favourite player on the Jays and the guy that I most strongly want to see have success. How long would you let him hit sub .200 before realizing that he isn't pulling himself out of his slump?

His defensive game is perfection. Shame he can't hit a ball right now. Russ will come around.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Xbox

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, Down by the River said:

You've got rose coloured glasses on. Best catcher in the league hitting less than .175 with over 160 ABs. Zero HR in 40 games. Navarro called just as strong a game as Martin. I've said in the past that Martin is my favourite player on the Jays and the guy that I most strongly want to see have success. How long would you let him hit sub .200 before realizing that he isn't pulling himself out of his slump?

Nope. 

Anyhow, have you ever gone through a slump?  120 at bats is not the kind of sample where you start proclaiming that a guy like Martin - a career .255 hitter with over 4000 at bats, won't be pulling himself out of it.  23 home runs last year and the guy can't hit?   It happens.  And the slump almost always comes to an end.  [note - this is not an argument that he's the best catcher in baseball - the point is that you don't give up on or dump a player based upon 120 at bats].

Edited May 23, 2016 by oldnews

[ShakyWalton]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

Still can't believe they inflicted Shapiro on us.

I suppose when weak ownership is blessed with better management than they deserve over time, it's bound to come around. 

 

But what annoys me even more is the possibility that there is something to this rumour - and it looks true by all accounts, with mulitple sources referring to the Jays floating Storen's name.

To turn around and sell an asset like that so quickly - after 15 innings - when his value has bottomed out - shows an utter lack of confidence in your scouting and belief in the player you acquired.  After a small sample like that - if he's already prepared to dump-sale that asset, imo it shows a real lack of backbone.  

It's one thing to look to add an arm, upgrade your bullpen, but to be shopping Storen is weak.

You made that move based upon what exactly?  If there was anything to the scouting and intel that informed that decision, then at least you stick with it to see if the player rebounds.  Almost any player will have a quarter-season stretch where they struggle at some point.  If you need to add a reliever, what are you going to get for Storen at present?  

 

Looks like the impression Shapiro gives - that he's an annoying dimwit - is what it is.

 

agreed...he was fully responsible for Clevelands collapse.

[the last outlaw]

1 minute ago, ShakyWalton said:

agreed...he was fully responsible for Clevelands collapse.

He gutted Cleveland and traded off all the star player's in fire sales. That's why Rogers brought him in to cut payroll.

[the last outlaw]

There's always the option of supporting Seattle. Try to follow them as much as I can regardless of how Jays are doing.

[ShakyWalton]

54 minutes ago, the last outlaw said:

There's always the option of supporting Seattle. Try to follow them as much as I can regardless of how Jays are doing.

I havent gotten there yet..but thats an option..I find it hard to root for any American league team other than the Jays..but I think we will be pulling for a sub 500 team all year..6 games out now...in the NL I am pulling for the Cubs..love to see them win it.

[RUPERTKBD]

I agree with xbox. You can't trade Martin.

 

Although his hitting has been terrible so far this year, his career numbers suggest that he will eventually come out of this funk. Likely, it will be a slow transition, much as we're seeing with Tulo.

 

The thing is, hitting is only half of the job and Martin is still an excellent defensive catcher. I'd agree that calling him "the best" is a stretch, but he's certainly the best the Jays have had for a long time, possibly ever.

 

I've said it a few times now: It's too early to press the panic button. The Jays are still hovering around .500 and that's with all of their offense coming from the long ball. Even if the Red Sox run away with this thing (FTR, I think they'll come down to earth before too long) there's still the Wild Card.

 

Even though thinks don't look great, I'd still recommend patience.

[oldnews]

yet again....

 

 

[Green Building]

8 minutes ago, oldnews said:

yet again....

 

 

That's just a routine fly ball for him

[oldnews]

5 minutes ago, Green Building said:

That's just a routine fly ball for him

I like Stroman's presence - he's a cheerleader on the field for his team-mates (same thing with Donaldson's 1st inning bare-hander)... and why not - it fits the team's personality and Pillar is a gd pitcher's dream.

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I agree with xbox. You can't trade Martin.

 

Although his hitting has been terrible so far this year, his career numbers suggest that he will eventually come out of this funk. Likely, it will be a slow transition, much as we're seeing with Tulo.

 

The thing is, hitting is only half of the job and Martin is still an excellent defensive catcher. I'd agree that calling him "the best" is a stretch, but he's certainly the best the Jays have had for a long time, possibly ever.

 

I've said it a few times now: It's too early to press the panic button. The Jays are still hovering around .500 and that's with all of their offense coming from the long ball. Even if the Red Sox run away with this thing (FTR, I think they'll come down to earth before too long) there's still the Wild Card.

 

Even though thinks don't look great, I'd still recommend patience.

Exactly.  And this was their m.o. last year as well.   40 games in is literally nothing.

As long as Shapiro can keep his itchy fingers off their roster, I think they'll be ok.

The one thing that has been a 'relief' is Happ - if he can continue to give them decent starts (and Dickey can get his sh!t together and keep them in half his starts) I think they'll have a good shot a making the postseason.   Estrada has pitched better than the results...and Stroman has lived up to stepping up in the rotation thus far.

They need to keep both catchers - if for no other reason than their pitching staff-  not otherwise good enough imo to go messing with the back end of their battery.

[King Heffy]

42 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Exactly.  And this was their m.o. last year as well.   40 games in is literally nothing.

As long as Shapiro can keep his itchy fingers off their roster, I think they'll be ok.

The one thing that has been a 'relief' is Happ - if he can continue to give them decent starts (and Dickey can get his sh!t together and keep them in half his starts) I think they'll have a good shot a making the postseason.   Estrada has pitched better than the results...and Stroman has lived up to stepping up in the rotation thus far.

They need to keep both catchers - if for no other reason than their pitching staff-  not otherwise good enough imo to go messing with the back end of their battery.

He's already done enough damage as it is.  He seems like he was hired solely to destroy the team.

[RUPERTKBD]

49 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Exactly.  And this was their m.o. last year as well.   40 games in is literally nothing.

As long as Shapiro can keep his itchy fingers off their roster, I think they'll be ok.

The one thing that has been a 'relief' is Happ - if he can continue to give them decent starts (and Dickey can get his sh!t together and keep them in half his starts) I think they'll have a good shot a making the postseason.   Estrada has pitched better than the results...and Stroman has lived up to stepping up in the rotation thus far.

They need to keep both catchers - if for no other reason than their pitching staff-  not otherwise good enough imo to go messing with the back end of their battery.

I think that as long as the Jays are still in the hunt come the trade deadline, Atkins and Shapiro should have two priorities:

 

- A legitimate leadoff guy. He doesn't have to hit a ton, as long as he has a good eye and knows how to run the bases. We need guys on base for JD, Bats and Edwing. (Ideally, he'd be a utility infielder)

- A dependable backup catcher. Thole is okay for catching Dickey, but the team needs a viable, veteran backup, who can step in if Russell's bat doesn't come around. With the Braves being as bad as they are, AJ Pierzynski might be had without mortgaging the future.

[oldnews]

8 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I think that as long as the Jays are still in the hunt come the trade deadline, Atkins and Shapiro should have two priorities:

 

- A legitimate leadoff guy. He doesn't have to hit a ton, as long as he has a good eye and knows how to run the bases. We need guys on base for JD, Bats and Edwing. (Ideally, he'd be a utility infielder)

- A dependable backup catcher. Thole is okay for catching Dickey, but the team needs a viable, veteran backup, who can step in if Russell's bat doesn't come around. With the Braves being as bad as they are, AJ Pierzynski might be had without mortgaging the future.

I agree.  Their/Gibbons' approach to the batting order is still a bit difficult to get behind.

I understand he wants to come straight at the starter - and leave the possibility of JB and JD getting an extra at bat by leading with them - and it certainly worked yesterday with those two going back-to-back to start the game (with no-one on lol) - but part of me is still old-school / small ball - thinking you need that legit leadoff hitter.  I'd be willing to forego the traditional 2 / bat control hitter for their new age theory of getting your power higher up in the order, but Revere would sure look good ahead of JB and JD imo.

Miss Navaro as well.

[RUPERTKBD]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I agree.  Their/Gibbons' approach to the batting order is still a bit difficult to get behind.

I understand he wants to come straight at the starter - and leave the possibility of JB and JD getting an extra at bat by leading with them - and it certainly worked yesterday with those two going back-to-back to start the game (with no-one on lol) - but part of me is still old-school / small ball - thinking you need that legit leadoff hitter.  I'd be willing to forego the traditional 2 / bat control hitter for their new age theory of getting your power higher up in the order, but Revere would sure look good ahead of JB and JD imo.

Miss Navaro as well.

I think the move to put Bats in the leadoff spot was one of those "might as well give it a shot" things. All things being equal, I believe Gibby would prefer having a traditional leadoff hitter. The problems is, it seems like both Pillar and Saunders don't start hitting until you move them down in the order.

 

I'm still holding out hope that Travis can be the guy. Fingers crossed that the rehab goes as planned....

[oldnews]

On 5/23/2016 at 0:13 PM, RUPERTKBD said:

I think the move to put Bats in the leadoff spot was one of those "might as well give it a shot" things. All things being equal, I believe Gibby would prefer having a traditional leadoff hitter. The problems is, it seems like both Pillar and Saunders don't start hitting until you move them down in the order.

 

I'm still holding out hope that Travis can be the guy. Fingers crossed that the rehab goes as planned....

That may be, but last year, even with Revere around, Gibbons still lead off with traditional 3/4 spot guys at times.

[ShakyWalton]

17 minutes ago, oldnews said:

That may be, but last year, even with Revere around, Gibbons still lead off with traditional 3/4 spot guys at times.

now he has Bats leading off and Saunders hitting 4..that will probably change again today...its musical spots but Saunders is about the only guy on the team hitting for average.

[oldnews]

Just now, ShakyWalton said:

now he has Bats leading off and Saunders hitting 4..that will probably change again today...its musical spots but Saunders is about the only guy on the team hitting for average.

at least it's interesting and unpredictable.  still though, having a leadoff guy that can get on, with speed - puts that extra pressure on the battery...that can serve those power hitters.

[ShakyWalton]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

at least it's interesting and unpredictable.  still though, having a leadoff guy that can get on, with speed - puts that extra pressure on the battery...that can serve those power hitters.

agreed..maybe they should try Tulo at 1 again  maybe Barney/Goins...they have to find that guy and as far as Im concerned he is playing for Philly.