Alflives Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: This post is a good example of why you and I are so often at odds in this thread. Generally, I think you're a pretty knowledgeable baseball guy, but tendency to want to criticize management for inconsequential things honestly baffles me. Everyone knew that Price was going to get a huge contract on the open market. Even a discounted contract with the Jays would have been more money and more term than they could afford. it also would have meant that either Happ or Estrada would (maybe both) would not have been signed. I said it at the time, while Price might provide decent return on investment for a year or two, his contract could end up being a huge albatross in the later years. The Red Sox can afford to carry such a contract without it adversely affecting their ability to sign other players. The Jays can not, especially with the prospect of having to re-sign Aaron Sanchez in the not too distant future. IMO, Jays' management made a smart decision in not pursuing Price in free agency, yet you seem to believe that we should be critical of what you admit would have been a futile gesture.I honestly wonder if you spend all your time and effort looking for reasons to criticize Jays' management. I know this post is probably going to come off as insulting, but it isn't intended to be. It's an honest assessment and I honestly don't understand your level of disdain for Shapiro and Atkins. You're saying the Jays are a poor club compared to the Bo Sox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 14 minutes ago, Alflives said: You're saying the Jays are a poor club compared to the Bo Sox? yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said: yes. I thought the Jays drew over 3,000,000 last season, more than the Bo Sox even. They have a TV contract for all of Canada, plus they share the US TV revenues. How come they don't make more than Boston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 13 minutes ago, Alflives said: I thought the Jays drew over 3,000,000 last season, more than the Bo Sox even. They have a TV contract for all of Canada, plus they share the US TV revenues. How come they don't make more than Boston? Attendence isn't the be all and end all when it comes to revenue. A better indicator is payroll. The Red Sox are consistently a top three spending club, (along with the Dodgers and Yankees) while the Jays regularly sit at around the #10 spot. Last season, the Bosox spent big money on Price, even though they already had a guy with a big contact not even in the lineup. (The Panda) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said: Attendence isn't the be all and end all when it comes to revenue. A better indicator is payroll. The Red Sox are consistently a top three spending club, (along with the Dodgers and Yankees) while the Jays regularly sit at around the #10 spot. Last season, the Bosox spent big money on Price, even though they already had a guy with a big contact not even in the lineup. (The Panda) Doesn't seem fair. Is that why we didn't resign (my favourite player) EE? I'm really going to miss him carrying the bird on his elbow, as he does his home rin trot:( 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 27 minutes ago, Alflives said: Doesn't seem fair. Is that why we didn't resign (my favourite player) EE? I'm really going to miss him carrying the bird on his elbow, as he does his home rin trot:( Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numb3r 16 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 When Stromans on, Stromans a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 16 hours ago, shiznak said: I've always said, he just didn't seem right in Boston, and that he was a bit "heart-broken" when the Jays decided to move on without even talking to his agent about a possible return. He was beloved by the fans in Toronto, and you can tell he genuinely loved playing for the Jays. Not talking to Price's camping about a return is just bad management. Even if he decides to sign elsewhere, or you think there's little chance of him returning. You still need to offer him something, even if it's a low-ball offer. Him rejecting it, would only look bad on his part, after saying Toronto is his first choice. don't be stupid there was nothing to talk about he want 30 million over a long term he is not worth that but some other team thought he was 5 x 20 - 22 million would have been worth talking about but he would have been insulted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 3 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said: Attendence isn't the be all and end all when it comes to revenue. A better indicator is payroll. The Red Sox are consistently a top three spending club, (along with the Dodgers and Yankees) while the Jays regularly sit at around the #10 spot. Last season, the Bosox spent big money on Price, even though they already had a guy with a big contact not even in the lineup. (The Panda) yes they have the money but spending it on price was just so unwise he has never been a playoff performer and he proved that again last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said: This post is a good example of why you and I are so often at odds in this thread. Generally, I think you're a pretty knowledgeable baseball guy, but tendency to want to criticize management for inconsequential things honestly baffles me. Everyone knew that Price was going to get a huge contract on the open market. Even a discounted contract with the Jays would have been more money and more term than they could afford. it also would have meant that either Happ or Estrada would (maybe both) would not have been signed. I said it at the time, while Price might provide decent return on investment for a year or two, his contract could end up being a huge albatross in the later years. The Red Sox can afford to carry such a contract without it adversely affecting their ability to sign other players. The Jays can not, especially with the prospect of having to re-sign Aaron Sanchez in the not too distant future. IMO, Jays' management made a smart decision in not pursuing Price in free agency, yet you seem to believe that we should be critical of what you admit would have been a futile gesture.I honestly wonder if you spend all your time and effort looking for reasons to criticize Jays' management. I know this post is probably going to come off as insulting, but it isn't intended to be. It's an honest assessment and I honestly don't understand your level of disdain for Shapiro and Atkins. Everyone talks about how Price will decline in a year or two, but have no factual prove that it will happen, aside from saying he will be too old. You are playing the odds, which is fine, but I've already said many times that pitchers have over comes the odds and pitched well; well over the age of 40 (Johnson, Schilling, Maddux, to name a few), and no one has made a counter point to my argument. Even if he decline, I don't think he'll be any worse than a number 2 or 3 pitcher in a rotation. The Jays window to compete for a World Series, albeit short, was slowly closing with Edwin's and Jose's contract soon expiring. They needed to go all-in during those two years, to have a chance at winning. You can't expect the Jays to be the Kansas City Royals in the AL, with Boston and New York in the division. The Royals sucked for many, many years (worst than the Jays), before they finally had enough talent in their system to become good ala the Chicago Blackhawks. The Jays were always in the middle of the pack in the AL, never good enough to win and never bad enough to get a high draft pick. AA finally realized this and convince owners to spend. This is why I'm so adamant of re-signing Price. There was no point in trading for him, if you know you wouldn't be able to sign him in the off-season. You gave up a top 20 prospect; plus, for two months of service from David Price. Not worth it. Bringing up re-signing Sanchez and Stroman is a moot point, because by the time they are eligible for free agent. Tulowitzki's, Martin's, Donaldson's, Bautista's, and Encarnaion's contracts would all have been expired and we wouldn't have known what the spending of the team would have looked like. Maybe Rogers would have had more of an investment for the Jays, which would allowed management to be a top 5 payroll team. And All I know is, if the team is successful, the more the fans will come to games, which equals more revanues for Rogers. Edited March 12, 2017 by shiznak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznak Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 8 hours ago, coastal.view said: don't be stupid there was nothing to talk about he want 30 million over a long term he is not worth that but some other team thought he was 5 x 20 - 22 million would have been worth talking about but he would have been insulted No, he didn't want 30M and season. That was the amount Boston paid him, which in no doubt was an overpayment from them, to get his service. The Cardinals were mere seconds of signing him for way less (25M, I think), before Boston swooped in and gave him the bank. If the Jays offered him, somewhere between the lines of Verlander type money, he might have considered it. Sure, money talks, but if you had the choice of playing for a team with the regaining MVP, one of the best shortstop to ever played the game, and a lineup that pitchers fear vs. a team that finished 4th in the AL, who is hanging on to a 40 year old DH. Which team would you choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Just my 2 cents on the Price situation I was pissed that we didn't even offer the guy something just to at least see, especially since his heart was to play here out of all places. And as Shiznak said our window was win now with the likes of JB and EE on their last year of contracts, Price easily could of been traded next year or the year after so I don't see how it would of been a big problem, plus then we would of also got something for him eventually. Obviously everything pitching wise worked out for the Jays, but no one could of predicted that was going to happen imo we got lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 What I'm more worried about and surprised @Xbox has mentioned it yet, but Pompey and how he is feeling.... He had concussion problems last year and the fact he's probably dealing with it again after yesterday's game actually worries me a bit. At least he has Morneau there to talk to since he had almost the exact same incident happen to him at 2nd base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbox Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said: What I'm more worried about and surprised @Xbox has mentioned it yet, but Pompey and how he is feeling.... He had concussion problems last year and the fact he's probably dealing with it again after yesterday's game actually worries me a bit. At least he has Morneau there to talk to since he had almost the exact same incident happen to him at 2nd base. I didn't know about the concussion problems Also Orioles almost signed Pagan but he failed a physical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 32 minutes ago, Xbox said: I didn't know about the concussion problems Also Orioles almost signed Pagan but he failed a physical Yeah he was pulled from the game yesterday after feeling dizzy after his slide into 2nd. Yeah read that a couple days ago thought that was interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 9 hours ago, shiznak said: Everyone talks about how Price will decline in a year or two, but have no factual prove that it will happen, aside from saying he will be too old. You are playing the odds, which is fine, but I've already said many times that pitchers have over comes the odds and pitched well; well over the age of 40 (Johnson, Schilling, Maddux, to name a few), and no one has made a counter point to my argument. Even if he decline, I don't think he'll be any worse than a number 2 or 3 pitcher in a rotation. The Jays window to compete for a World Series, albeit short, was slowly closing with Edwin's and Jose's contract soon expiring. They needed to go all-in during those two years, to have a chance at winning. You can't expect the Jays to be the Kansas City Royals in the AL, with Boston and New York in the division. The Royals sucked for many, many years (worst than the Jays), before they finally had enough talent in their system to become good ala the Chicago Blackhawks. The Jays were always in the middle of the pack in the AL, never good enough to win and never bad enough to get a high draft pick. AA finally realized this and convince owners to spend. This is why I'm so adamant of re-signing Price. There was no point in trading for him, if you know you wouldn't be able to sign him in the off-season. You gave up a top 20 prospect; plus, for two months of service from David Price. Not worth it. Bringing up re-signing Sanchez and Stroman is a moot point, because by the time they are eligible for free agent. Tulowitzki's, Martin's, Donaldson's, Bautista's, and Encarnaion's contracts would all have been expired and we wouldn't have known what the spending of the team would have looked like. Maybe Rogers would have had more of an investment for the Jays, which would allowed management to be a top 5 payroll team. And All I know is, if the team is successful, the more the fans will come to games, which equals more revanues for Rogers. The "going all in" idea is valid and I realize that I'm using a bit of 20/20 hindsight here, but I'd argue that the Jays got far more out of Estrada and Happ than the Red Sox got out of Price. Further to that, I was one of the few who defended both signings when they happened, as well as the idea of letting Price walk. (You can go back through the thread and verify that if you want) We can agree to disagree on whether Price declines in the later years of the contract, however, I'm not as much of the opinion that it's 100% certainty as I am that the Jays can ill afford to take the chance that it happens. The Red Sox can afford to carry an albatross contract, even a 30 million dollar one. It would kill the Jays for years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numb3r 16 Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 BAUTISTA WITH THE ASSIST!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Man Canada sucks at baseball lol, the worst part about this is your team just needs 1 win to qualify for next WBC, doesn't look like Canada will be at the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numb3r 16 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Oh my lord Canada what the hell are you doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbox Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Probably could have won at least 1 game if they had Saunders, Martin and Votto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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