SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 He traded a 5th not Jamie Benn. No guarantee the Bruins would have chosen him. Yeah, it's a pretty misleading statement ("McQuaid for 2007 pick Jamie Benn"). Just for "gits and shiggles" this morning, I decided to take a few minutes to re-visit the 2007 draft and the McQuaid trade (open spoiler for details): Dallas completely lucked out when they picked Jamie Benn in the 5th round. The Stars had acquired four additional 5th rounders (and traded their own 5th) that year and they picked Austin Smith, Jamie Benn, Ondrej Roman, and Michael Neal in that round. Columbus actually traded three of those 5th round picks (including the one that turned into Benn) for Dallas's 4th rounder, which the Blue Jackets used to take Maxim Mayorov. To get a handle on how lucky the Benn pick was: the 7 players chosen before him in the 2007 5th round have played a grand total of five minutes and thirty-one seconds in the NHL (one game played by one player). And Dallas actually had Austin Smith ranked ahead of Benn in that round. The Stars basically threw a dart at the board and fluked their way into a bullseye. If anyone had an idea of the player Benn would become, he'd have easily been a 1st round pick. Hard to fault Benning for something that every NHL team's staff ended up having wrong. With the gift of hindsight, it's a pretty safe bet that at least half of the league's teams would happily swap the player they actually drafted in the 2007 first round for Jamie Benn. As for the 2007 5th round, outside of Benn and a couple others, most of the other 29 players in that round will never pan out at the NHL level. In fact, compared to many other years, the 2007 5th round looks pretty thin on talent. After Benn, Jake Muzzin is probably the best NHL player taken that round, and things drop off pretty quick after that. Every team in the league missed on Jamie Benn until Dallas finally took a flyer on him at #129 overall. Adam McQuaid was picked 55th overall in 2005 and the Blue Jackets swapped him for a 5th rounder two years later. If Benning was responsible for making that trade, then put another "win" on his record (for turning a 5th round pick into a 2nd round pick--and one who developed into a solid NHL player). If Boston has any "mistakes" from 2007 it would be their drafting of Zack Hamill (#8) and Tommy Cross (#35). Both players had some pretty major question marks in their scouting reports back then and Hamill's turned into the textbook definition of a "bust" while Cross remains something of a longterm "project" for the Bruins. Not sure how much of a role Benning played in choosing those players (or the rest of that year's draft), but while he might have scored a "win" with McQuaid, he probably deserves to lose a few points on the players the Bruins drafted in 2007. I'm sure they'd gladly trade any of their 2007 picks for Jamie Benn (or for several other players they missed out on that year). But I'm equally sure that no one in the Boston organization is regretting trading a #129 pick in 2007 for Adam McQuaid (a player who, to date, has given them 220 regular season and 54 playoff games). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucks-4-Life Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Still boggles my mind Benn was picked in the 5th round. What was the knock on him again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejejester Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Still boggles my mind Benn was picked in the 5th round. What was the knock on him again? Players develop at different rates, and peak and different times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Still boggles my mind Benn was picked in the 5th round. What was the knock on him again? him and Bozak lit it up in the BCHL, he didn't play Major Junior until after he was drafted Bozak wasn't even drafted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Habitat Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Conformed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Conformed who conformed to what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbox Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Still boggles my mind Benn was picked in the 5th round. What was the knock on him again? No one expected him to be that good. All those late draft picks have a very low chance to make it, but it's not 0. When a ton of players get drafted that late then there are a lot of players who have a low chance of making it. Out of that many players one of them is bound to beat the odds and Benn did. It's a numbers game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 No one expected him to be that good. All those late draft picks have a very low chance to make it, but it's not 0. When a ton of players get drafted that late then there are a lot of players who have a low chance of making it. Out of that many players one of them is bound to beat the odds and Benn did. It's a numbers game. It's actually even trickier than that. You can load up on draft picks but you still need to decide within two years if they are worth offering a contract to. Since you can only have 50 contracts in your system total, it doesn't provide you with a tonne of time for 'project' players in later rounds. Maybe a team offers a deal to a project taken in the top 2 rounds but they are extremely unlikely to for a later round pick unless they show huge progression in that time. Benn was one of the few late round picks that was able to get a contract in that time frame. Coming out of Junior A, if he had not been able to make the WHL the next year he might have fallen off of the map in a lesser league. This happens to players all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Apparently a strong candidate of Benning is Bruins farm team coach for 4 years. @News1130Sports: If Jim Benning gets the #Canucks gm job, Providence coach Bruce Cassidy should get serious consideration for Vancouver coaching job. Here's an article I found on how he misused his players in the play-offs. Cassidy firing a matter of money, pride Jim Kelley [ARCHIVE].... Cassidy was 37 at the time of his firing. Obviously he wasn't prepared to be an NHL head coach 10 years ago. Doesn't mean he isn't ready now, but from what I've found online about him, his resume isn't anything to write home about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Bull" Horvat Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Yeah, it's a pretty misleading statement ("McQuaid for 2007 pick Jamie Benn"). Just for "gits and shiggles" this morning, I decided to take a few minutes to re-visit the 2007 draft and the McQuaid trade (open spoiler for details): Dallas completely lucked out when they picked Jamie Benn in the 5th round. The Stars had acquired four additional 5th rounders (and traded their own 5th) that year and they picked Austin Smith, Jamie Benn, Ondrej Roman, and Michael Neal in that round. Columbus actually traded three of those 5th round picks (including the one that turned into Benn) for Dallas's 4th rounder, which the Blue Jackets used to take Maxim Mayorov. To get a handle on how lucky the Benn pick was: the 7 players chosen before him in the 2007 5th round have played a grand total of five minutes and thirty-one seconds in the NHL (one game played by one player). And Dallas actually had Austin Smith ranked ahead of Benn in that round. The Stars basically threw a dart at the board and fluked their way into a bullseye. If anyone had an idea of the player Benn would become, he'd have easily been a 1st round pick. Hard to fault Benning for something that every NHL team's staff ended up having wrong. With the gift of hindsight, it's a pretty safe bet that at least half of the league's teams would happily swap the player they actually drafted in the 2007 first round for Jamie Benn. As for the 2007 5th round, outside of Benn and a couple others, most of the other 29 players in that round will never pan out at the NHL level. In fact, compared to many other years, the 2007 5th round looks pretty thin on talent. After Benn, Jake Muzzin is probably the best NHL player taken that round, and things drop off pretty quick after that. Every team in the league missed on Jamie Benn until Dallas finally took a flyer on him at #129 overall. Adam McQuaid was picked 55th overall in 2005 and the Blue Jackets swapped him for a 5th rounder two years later. If Benning was responsible for making that trade, then put another "win" on his record (for turning a 5th round pick into a 2nd round pick--and one who developed into a solid NHL player). If Boston has any "mistakes" from 2007 it would be their drafting of Zack Hamill (#8) and Tommy Cross (#35). Both players had some pretty major question marks in their scouting reports back then and Hamill's turned into the textbook definition of a "bust" while Cross remains something of a longterm "project" for the Bruins. Not sure how much of a role Benning played in choosing those players (or the rest of that year's draft), but while he might have scored a "win" with McQuaid, he probably deserves to lose a few points on the players the Bruins drafted in 2007. I'm sure they'd gladly trade any of their 2007 picks for Jamie Benn (or for several other players they missed out on that year). But I'm equally sure that no one in the Boston organization is regretting trading a #129 pick in 2007 for Adam McQuaid (a player who, to date, has given them 220 regular season and 54 playoff games). Safe to say we should try not to trade with Dallas (if/when Benning gets hired) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absent Canuck Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 So if so many folks on CDC want Benning, why are they cheering for Boston in the playoffs? The sooner Boston loses, the sooner we get our new GM. Agreed. Waiting the extra two weeks to a month at the most is going to crush our franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaSwede Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Apparently a strong candidate of Benning is Bruins farm team coach for 4 years. @News1130Sports: If Jim Benning gets the #Canucks gm job, Providence coach Bruce Cassidy should get serious consideration for Vancouver coaching job. Here's an article I found on how he misused his players in the play-offs. Cassidy firing a matter of money, pride Jim Kelley [ARCHIVE] ESPN.com | December 11, 2003 It's neither shocking nor surprising now when a coach gets fired in the National Hockey League. The Washington Capitals were in last place with an 8-18-1-1 record under Bruce Cassidy, a coach who couldn't maximize the talents of superstar forward Jaromir Jagr and went so far over the top in a recent rant in the media that he had to apologize to the entire team. Bruce Cassidy was 47-47-9-7 behind the Capitals' bench. So when Cassidy got axed Wednesday, the only real question was, what took so long? There are two answers: money and pride. Surprised Jagr wasn't a reason? Don't be. "This is not about Jaromir Jagr," Capitals general manager George McPhee told ESPN.com Wednesday. "I have no problems with the way Jaromir has been playing for the past two months. This was just something where our team had spiraled down to a point where I felt I had to step in." Money is the easy part to understand. While the Capitals had some success under Cassidy, who was hired in June 2002, management initially believed many of the team's problems were not of his making, including some communication problems with Jagr and a seriously weakened defense. Things began to change last season after Cassidy's falling-out with veteran defenseman Calle Johansson during the playoffs. That was a precursor to more heated disagreements with Jagr and then last week's rant. After the Caps were outshot 41-9 in a 3-0 loss to the New Jersey Devils, Cassidy incorporated players' personal lives and their family situations in his on-ice complaints, a no-no in the hockey world and an action for which he was forced to apologize. Before the tirade, Capitals management was hoping to get through the season with Cassidy. After all, what was the point of firing a coach the year before a potential lockout season? With a work stoppage looming, firing a coach this season means eating his salary and signing a new coach to a contract that includes a season he likely won't have to work. That all changed after it became clear that Cassidy, who had never before coached in the NHL, had lost the team. The pride in question is McPhee's. Hiring Cassidy, the American Hockey League's coach of the year in 2002, was a major risk because of his lack of NHL experience. However, because the Capitals had waited so long to fire Ron Wilson, Cassidy and Glen Hanlon were the only attractive candidates available. Hanlon, who replaces Cassidy after serving as his assistant, apparently lost out in the interview process. Initially, it looked as if hiring Cassidy would work. He was 39-29-8-6 in his first season and came within one win of capturing the Southeast Division title, before losing to the Tampa Bay Lightning in the first round of the playoffs 4-2 after winning the first two games. Considering the team missed the playoffs the season before, it all seemed to validate Cassidy's credentials. General managers last a lot longer than coaches in the NHL, but they get only a couple of kicks at canning a coach before they have to pay for the decisions as well. McPhee now has two coaching strikes against him. With only a handful of exceptions, general mangers rarely get more than three. "We had a great first year with Bruce," McPhee said. "We had missed the playoffs the year before, and he did a great job bringing us back. But after we lost [Game 3] to Tampa Bay, it seems we were never the same team. We lost momentum and we were never the same team after that." Firing Cassidy shouldn't be construed as management backing a player over a coach. A source close to the team told ESPN.com on Wednesday that the firing and the much-rumored possible trade of Jagr should be viewed as separate situations. Cassidy was fired because he didn't lose one player; he lost all of them. Once that happens, a coach is finished. Last Thursday's rant guaranteed that. Meanwhile, the Capitals can afford to wait for the right time to deal Jagr. If a trade happens, it will revolve solely around money -- how much the Caps have to eat of the four years and $44 million remaining on Jagr's contract, and what they might get in return. According to McPhee, Jagr has been playing as well or better during the last two months than at any other time since he's been in Washington. Under Hanlon, it's at least conceivable that he could play better and the team would rise with him. Under those circumstances, the Caps could keep Jagr. If they don't, he becomes -- at the very least -- an easier player to trade. Cassidy was just the opposite; management couldn't wait any longer. Jim Kelley is the NHL writer for ESPN.com. Submit questions or comments to his mail bag. I don't think it is very likely that he (Cassidy) ends up being the head coach of the Canucks. I think that's why we have a president of hockey operations as well to help out with these decisions. However, him getting fired in Washington roughly ten years ago doesn't mean he would be a bad choice. I think I would rather see him as an assistant if he HAS to be brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Potentially 1 last game Wednesday before Benning is off to Vancity. Please let this be true and for the sake of everyone let Montreal win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Potentially 1 last game Wednesday before Benning is off to Vancity. Please let this be true and for the sake of everyone let Montreal win! I really don't think it will impact it as much as many people are making it out. I think the process will move along and get finalized by the end of next week regardless of who wins Wednesday. That being said…. Go Habs!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lui's Knob Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 One more until beginning of benning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 go habs cause they are a canadian team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyllenhaal Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I would rather have Fenton. The only thing I'm not sold on about Benning is his draft record. It is pretty average compared to the entire league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I would rather have Fenton. The only thing I'm not sold on about Benning is his draft record. It is pretty average compared to the entire league. Chiarelli makes the picks for Boston you realize right? That's like blaming Gilman for Gillis' poor selections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyllenhaal Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Chiarelli makes the picks for Boston you realize right? That's like blaming Gilman for Gillis' poor selections. Chiarelli has the final say on who they pick but Benning makes most of the recommendations on who to draft. Here's a description of Bennings job as AGM for the Bruins from NHL.com: "In that position, he serves as an advisor to General Manager Peter Chiarelli on all matters pertaining to player evaluation, trades and free agent signings, in addition to assisting the General Manager in overseeing all individuals in their specific duties for the Bruins." Player evaluation meaning he deals with the pro and amateur scouting. Chiarelli doesn't do everything himself. Since becoming AGM in 2006 Jim Benning's draft record is as such: Players who have played over 50 NHL games: (4) Joe Coulbourne Jordan Caron Tyler Seguin Dougie Hamilton Here is a description of Fenton's job as AGM for Nashville from NHL.com: "Now in his 16th season with the Predators, and his eighth as the club’s assistant general manager, Paul Fenton has been instrumental in bringing in many of Nashville’s core players, primarily through the draft, but also through trades and free agent signings." Since becoming AGM in 2006 Paul Fenton's draft record is as such: Players who have played over 50 NHL games: (10) Nick Spaling Jonathan Blum Colin Wilson Roman Josi Anders Lindback Gabriel Bourque Mattias Ekholm Craig Smith Ryan Ellis Seth Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Chiarelli has the final say on who they pick but Benning makes most of the recommendations on who to draft. Here's a description of Bennings job as AGM for the Bruins from NHL.com: "In that position, he serves as an advisor to General Manager Peter Chiarelli on all matters pertaining to player evaluation, trades and free agent signings, in addition to assisting the General Manager in overseeing all individuals in their specific duties for the Bruins." Player evaluation meaning he deals with the pro and amateur scouting. Chiarelli doesn't do everything himself. Every assistant GM gives advice to the GM. That doesn't mean Benning is responsible for all of the bad picks. Just like Fenton can't take credit for all of the good picks. It's a team of scouts and GM's that make the decision together. Singling out one guy to take credit or blame is silly. Look at Benning's time with Buffalo for examples of good picks he was involved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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