Herberts Vasiljevs Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Weisbrod has given me no real reason to hate him as a candidate. People tend to complain about the Jankowski pick, but the fact is that he is a really good prospect. The Flames have been drafting very well for the past few years and WEisbrod is a reason why (etc. finding Gaudreau). And please people, let's not directly associate him with the O'Reilly fiasco. All fingers point to Feaster here. He also helped build a winner in Boston. I'm not sure what so many people are complaining about here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I'm not sure what so many people are complaining about here... Ignorance breeds fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 You aren't really addressing the point of my post. Who are you going to replace his 20-30 goals with? Regardless of whether or not it is the right thing to do, flipping him for a defensman is going to create a hole on offense that is going to be difficult to fill. Not sure how you can debate that. Although "um...no" IS one of the best arguments I have ever experienced. If the rumor is true and a Kesler for Weber deal comes, then you shouldn't really have to worry about offense because the Canucks would finally have arguably the best defenseman in the game today. A Selke winning 3C playing 2C because he refuses to take one for the team, for a top notch 1D. There's no argument there. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 If te rumor is true and a Kesler for Weber deal comes, then you shouldn't really have to worry about offense because the Canucks would finally have arguably the best defenseman in the game today. A Selke winning 3C playing 2C because he refuses to take one for the team, for a top notch 1D. There's no argument there. At all. Again, not arguing the merits of trading Kesler OR acquiring Weber. Suggesting that without Kesler this team will be even more in tough to score goals. Also there is no way in hell Kesler gets traded straight up for Weber. Weber is a far better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Weisbrod has given me no real reason to hate him as a candidate. People tend to complain about the Jankowski pick, but the fact is that he is a really good prospect. The Flames have been drafting very well for the past few years and WEisbrod is a reason why (etc. finding Gaudreau). And please people, let's not directly associate him with the O'Reilly fiasco. All fingers point to Feaster here. He also helped build a winner in Boston. I'm not sure what so many people are complaining about here... I have to agree with you on this . If this is the guy Benning wants there's gotta be good reasons for it. He's a Harvard educated ex-hockey player and the fact that he even had the balls to take the GM position with the Magic coming from a hockey background says a lot about the guy. If he is the guy that found Gaudreau for the lames then he's definitely got an eye for talent as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Again, not arguing the merits of trading Kesler OR acquiring Weber. Suggesting that without Kesler this team will be even more in tough to score goals. Also there is no way in hell Kesler gets traded straight up for Weber. Weber is a far better player.Goals can be had with other players. I expect this last season to be an anomaly. Kesler is the least of my concerns. If Kesler realized how many more points he would have if he utilized his wings better... Kesler is not the solution, he's the problem. Unless he shuts the hell up and plays wing. But even Tortorella couldn't get this guy to align with the organization's desires. Kesler costs talent. From Umberger, Hodgson, to Tortorella himself. I don't buy "he's the best coach I've ever played for"; that's politics. By trading Kesler, the Canucks save Horvat and numerous kids who might get bullied into getting traded because Mr. Kesler feels threatened. Hey. If you're good enough, no need to worry right? As far as Kesler for Weber straight up, I also agree that it is lopsided, as well as virtually impossible as I'd be surprised If Nashville is on Kesler's list. Nonetheless, the pieces Kesler and potentially Edler would garner from other trades could be enough to land Weber. And with Weber in the fold, the Canucks are right back at it. The best part is that acquiring Weber could drastically change the makeup of the defense. Since he's such a workhorse, there would suddenly be a major logjam at defense both in talent and in salary. WEBER - HAMHUIS TANEV - BIEKSA STANTON - CORRADO Is better than: EDLER - HAMHUIS GARRISON - BIEKSA STANTON - TANEV That would leave Edler and Garrison as potential trade pieces for young offensive talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Ignorance breeds fear. And fear leads to the Dark Side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Goals can be had with other players. I expect this last season to be an anomaly. Kesler is the least of my concerns. If Kesler realized how many more points he would have if he utilized his wings better... Kesler is not the solution, he's the problem. Unless he shuts the hell up and plays wing. But even Tortorella couldn't get this guy to align with the organization's desires. Kesler costs talent. From Umberger, Hodgson, to Tortorella himself. I don't buy "he's the best coach I've ever played for"; that's politics. By trading Kesler, the Canucks save Horvat and numerous kids who might get bullied into getting traded because Mr. Kesler feels threatened. Hey. If you're good enough, no need to worry right? As far as Kesler for Weber straight up, I also agree that it is lopsided, as well as virtually impossible as I'd be surprised If Nashville is on Kesler's list. Nonetheless, the pieces Kesler and potentially Edler would garner from other trades could be enough to land Weber. And with Weber in the fold, the Canucka are right back at it. The best part is that acquiring Weber could drastically change the makeup of the defense. Since he's such a workhorse, there would suddenly be a major logjam at defense both in talent and in salary. WEBER - HAMHUIS TANEV - BIEKSA STANTON - CORRADO Is better than: EDLER - HAMHUIS GARRISON - BIEKSA STANTON - TANEV Well yea, I mean duh it's better! Weber is all world. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Kesler as your hate for him seems to stem from personal beliefs aside from the fact that I agree that he is a bit of a puck hog...but I do believe he is a positive contributor to this team and the only reason I trade him is to garner pieces that will build a new foundation for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Ugh. Weisbrod. Why? There are better candidates elsewhere. you're quite the beacon of positivity around these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Well yea, I mean duh it's better! Weber is all world. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Kesler as your hate for him seems to stem from personal beliefs aside from the fact that I agree that he is a bit of a puck hog...but I do believe he is a positive contributor to this team and the only reason I trade him is to garner pieces that will build a new foundation for the future. As another poster has said regarding Kesler: His value in trade drastically outweighs his value to the Canucks. That's why you trade him. Nothing of personal beliefs. You stated it yourself, fact is, he's a super puck hog. At least he doesn't dive anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 As another poster has said regarding Kesler: His value in trade drastically outweighs his value to the Canucks. That's why you trade him. Nothing of personal beliefs. You stated it yourself, fact is, he's a super puck hog. At least he doesn't dive anymore. Well I think your suggestion of Kesler bullying players out of the organization is a pretty personal belief not really based on fact. But I agree that IF his value in trade outweighs his value to the Canucks then you pull the trigger. All depends on his market value though. Young players and draft picks are great but an unknown quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 As another poster has said regarding Kesler: His value in trade drastically outweighs his value to the Canucks. That's yet to be determined. The rumoured offers from the deadline do not support that statement either. Until a real team offers up a real package that's actually worth more than Kesler's value to the Canucks (which despite what some posters here believe, is A LOT)...he stays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 That's yet to be determined. The rumoured offers from the deadline do not support that statement either. Until a real team offers up a real package that's actually worth more than Kesler's value to the Canucks (which despite what some posters here believe, is A LOT)...he stays. And the goal posts will have changed. Benning's view may be very different than Gillis'. The targets are likely going to be very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 The offers for Kesler were akin to offers for a UFA one run mercenary.Kesler is on a low cap hit contract and you have to pony up more then the lowball offers we were getting if you really want him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 And the goal posts will have changed. Benning's view may be very different than Gillis'. The targets are likely going to be very different. The most glaring needs for this team IMO were a PMD and a skilled top 6 forward (along with prospect depth). I don't see that drastically changing regardless of who's in the GM chair. And if Kesler goes that means we need two top 6 forwards (one of which is a C). If anything, Benning simply opens up more possibilities by virtue of his connections. I doubt the targets change much at all honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorLinden4ever Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 How much of a hand did he play in making that fabulous Seguin trade to Dallas? HAHAHAHAHAHA. Until he proves me otherwise - not a fan of chief Lindens hire. The more I think about it, the more I wish Gillis had the balls to hasten that ol' frickin reset to save his arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 How much of a hand did he play in making that fabulous Seguin trade to Dallas? HAHAHAHAHAHA. Until he proves me otherwise - not a fan of chief Lindens hire. The more I think about it, the more I wish Gillis had the balls to hasten that ol' frickin reset to save his arse. That was a phenomenal trade for Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorLinden4ever Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 That was a phenomenal trade for Boston. Are you outta yer mind? That was Thornton 2.0! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 The most glaring needs for this team IMO were a PMD and a skilled top 6 forward (along with prospect depth). I don't see that drastically changing regardless of who's in the GM chair. And if Kesler goes that means we need two top 6 forwards (one of which is a C). If anything, Benning simply opens up more possibilities by virtue of his connections. I doubt the targets change much at all honestly. I agree those needs haven't changed. It depends on how he wants to accomplish it though. MG might have been stuck in one thought pattern or strategy to achieve those goals. JB might have different players in mind or other assets. Sometimes the best move isn't linear. You move A for B, and then B and C for D and E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I agree those needs haven't changed. It depends on how he wants to accomplish it though. MG might have been stuck in one thought pattern or strategy to achieve those goals. JB might have different players in mind or other assets. Sometimes the best move isn't linear. You move A for B, and then B and C for D and E. Fair enough. The destination's largely the same but Benning might just have a different scenic route to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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