Keith Jones questions Canucks organization "character"

[Dogbyte]

Trading Schneider was much bolder move than firing a coach that most people were calling for his head.

Umm, no MG admitted there was no way he could afford both goalies, Luo was untradable so we had to take what we could get. Exact opposite of bold. That is actually painting oneself into a corner and being forced to make a move. If he would have traded Schnieder before it became a huge mess that would have been bold.

[Boudrias]

Milberry was a guff as a player, a GM and as a media presstitute. Jones is not even on my radar. A fringe player at best.

Their opinions of the Canucks have possible substance as it appears they are broad based in the hockey world. It is a small world and fans are not privy to most of what is known. The history of the Canucks is not exactly great whether talking ownership, management or coaching. I suggest the most solid period was with Quinn. Best ownership is the current one.

As a fan from the beginning I think the cleaning out process with Gillis and Torts gone had to happen. It is all about a winning culture and IMHO Torts was not the right coach. I simply could not agree with playing 3 lines it is not playoff hockey. He overplayed his key guys and that short changes your bench. Torts always said 'It's a process', I never figured out what the 'process' was.

[Where's Wellwood]

I'm just glad that I haven't yet heard PJ Stock talk about Torts' firing. I don't know if he ever said anything about it, or if he was happy about it. I'd imagine he'd be ecstatic given his reaction and opinion about Torts after the Calgary dressing room incident.

If there is a youtube clip of him talking about it, I don't wan't to see it.

[oldnews]

Actually,it directly calls out the character of Tortorella and indirectly calls out Gillis for hiring him.

Both are gone and it is a fresh start.

Trevor made a bolder move in three weeks than I saw Gillis make in three years.

We realize you hated Gillis and Tortorella, but this wasn't the boldest move.

As another poster pointed out, dealing Schneider was a more difficult decision, as was firing AV, who was far, far more successful, but arguably reached a point of needing change.

Dealing Luongo was bolder.

Even acquiring Ballard or Booth were bolder moves than this, whether or not they panned out.

I love Linden, but I wouldn't characterize this as "bold" - I'd characterize it as correct, appropriate, prudent, but a borderline no-brainer.

Assuming your opening line refers to Linden's move and not Jones' comments - which is how it's likely to be read.

[oldnews]

These guys always get their feathers ruffled when the Canucks do something to better themselves.

Just wait until Linden poaches Benning from their beloved Bruins muahahahahaha.

Not surprised they'd have wanted Tortorella to stay.... I'd love to see Milbury GMing a team I can't stand.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Did they at least call out the Capitals for doing the same thing?

[Popinjay]

/thread

Easy to say when you are not forced to watch these guys for the whole Stanley Cup playoffs

[Popinjay]

Agree with the above, however what I find really, really good about the NBC broadcasts is: They actually call the play by play.

I am so sick of Jim Hughson ceding to that dim-witted Simpson who blabbers on and on while the play is on. Just cut him off Jim! Quit playing nice guy and call the play.

Shorthouse is starting to prefer chatting with the other John while the play is on too; just call the play.

And this crap about "lets just let the sound of the game, arena, fans carry the play by play"; cut it out; call the play.

When the NBC feed had to replace John & John about a month ago, here was this professional play-by-play announcer calling the play.

It was so well done, it reminded me of Jim Robson and you could envision the game without looking at the TV.

Another thing this provides is the names of all the players; some of us are not completely familiar with all the players in the NHL and it is great to learn their names while they are performing on the ice.

Yea, like I said, the play by play is not bad and tolerable, but the studio chatter is insufferable. I don't want to watch, but like a bad car accident, I have to just to see what BS they conjure up

[Mustapha]

Please explain to me the difference in your mind between a season ticket holder and a Canucks fan.

Season ticket holders pay for every home game in advance. They are critical for ensuring the Canucks' profitability, especially since the arena no longer sells out every night, regardless what the team claims.

Season ticket holders should wait and see the team play before deciding what to do with the upcoming season tickets? To me, everyone here is in the same boat, waiting for changes to take place and have effect.

And I think Linden has tons of people to fire if it comes to that. This move probably isn't going to be one standing in the way of him getting stuff 'worked out'... jeez!

Actually, that's not true. The team's play is the big reason why these changes were made, and management can't just fire the players. Considering this roster is laden with NTCs and term deals, it would be difficult to make major changes. Bieksa even stated 'he isn't going anywhere' and as long as he doesn't waive his NMC, he won't.

It's blatantly obvious that the dismissal of Torts and Sullivan was done primarily to appease many of the angry season ticket holders. Trevor even sent them letters communicating this. It was not a hockey decision, it was a business decision.

And I do believe Tortorella and Sullivan were informed of their dismissal before the announcement came out and Linden did the press conference...

Is there a reason you believe that? Everything I have read seems to indicate otherwise.

[Popinjay]

Stop taking this stuff so seriously. They're on tv and it is no surprise that they play favourites, happens all the time. Just brush it off and move on. This is literally a non-issue.

Like I said, I don't want to make this into a whiny diatribe, but this is an issue for me when I have to watch this stuff. Yea you could tell me I don't have to watch it, but as a hockey fan, I like to watch studio commentary and thoughts about hat is happening. And in my case, I have no other choice than to watch these to talking heads.

[-DLC-]

Does anyone happen to know exactly what Jones said?

I do have a beef with the way Torts was fired....it's very bush league to have it announced on TV before it actually occurs.

I also have my doubts about this being a hockey decision. Linden could have allowed the new GM to make the call, there was plenty of time to make a coaching change. This was all about revenue.

My opinion is Torts was another sacrificial lamb offered up to season ticket holders, a pleading gesture for continued support. The letter sent out to the season ticket holders reinforces that idea.

I hope this works out for Linden because he no longer has anyone else to fire. If I was a season ticket holder I would remain skeptical until I saw a real change in the on ice play.

I don't agree....if you know of an action to be made, it's in fairness to all to carry it out rather than hold off. This allows Torts to plan HIS future, which would have been done around the premise that he'd be here.

It was clear that things did not work out...whether or not that rests with Torts remains to be seen (and will never fully be, as it's more of a combined result). But you take charge and move forward with changes in a timely manner so nothing stands in the way of future developments for all involved parties.

He wasn't a sacrificial lamb - we missed the playoffs, our starter was denied what was admittedly a huge game and subsequently left in a hurry afterward, our guys were beat up and dragged out. It didn't work, that's all. And this is coming from a Torts' fan.

[Popinjay]

Does anyone happen to know exactly what Jones said?

I can't recall exactly, but Milbury basically said it was the right move and made sense because the Canucks are not suited for torts' style which could be interpreted as another sleight against the Nucks. Jones then said that is called into question the character of the organization. I don't know if he was basing that off of rumors that the media reported it before torts heard, but I wouldn't be surprised because at the same time Milbury was talking about how Kesler as demanding a trade which to my knowledge is also just a rumor and not fact, although watching them you would not know as they present it as fact.

[iLLmAtlc]

James Duthie: We're alongside 3 brilliant hockey minds and Keith Jones

[Mustapha]

He wasn't a sacrificial lamb - we missed the playoffs, our starter was denied what was admittedly a huge game and subsequently left in a hurry afterward, our guys were beat up and dragged out. It didn't work, that's all. And this is coming from a Torts' fan.

If Linden's decision was based on hockey and not business, how do you explain his letter to season ticket holders? The letter itself explains in Trevor's own words exactly what I think he was doing: Sacrificing Torts to appease paying customers.

The first two paragraphs of said letter:

"Today we are making a significant change in the direction of our team by relieving John Tortorella and Mike Sullivan of their coaching duties. As a Season Ticket Member, I know you are deeply invested in our team and I wanted to connect with you personally. We are grateful to John and Mike for their efforts last season and wish them success with their future endeavors.

This is a fresh start for our team and you’ll see us make some other changes this summer. It starts with how we shape our management and coaching staffs and the roster improvements we’re able to make. Our goal is to be back in the playoffs next spring as we continue developing this group into a team that can challenge for the Stanley Cup." end quote.

You can't deny that he used the move as incentive to keep the season ticket holders on board, otherwise the coaching change could have been made later.

If you believe that the team fired Tortorella because of the events of last season, it would have made sense to remove him at the same time Mike Gillis was removed. No need for exit interviews or assessments if you think the events of the past season are enough to warrant a coaching change.

This was done at a specific time for a specific reason. Season ticket holders wanted him gone, and the genie that is Trevor Linden granted their wish.

I also don't buy Trevor's comments about letting Torts go when he did because 'it would help John'. Not only is that statement disingenuous, but it's simply not true. Trevor made the move when he did for the sake of the customers, and it had nothing to do with Torts at all. I understand that it's a wise business decision, but from a sports perspective I find it dishonourable and self serving.

[AFrame14]

It's only cuz torts is American and Boston was playing at the time.( good opportunity to beak Canucks).. Milbury was one of the worst gms ever, so his hockey knowledge can't be that great.. Seriously who trades away a blue chip goalie prospect (Lou) just to waste a first overall on dipetro?

[Down by the River]

Agree with the above, however what I find really, really good about the NBC broadcasts is: They actually call the play by play.

I am so sick of Jim Hughson ceding to that dim-witted Simpson who blabbers on and on while the play is on. Just cut him off Jim! Quit playing nice guy and call the play.

Shorthouse is starting to prefer chatting with the other John while the play is on too; just call the play.

And this crap about "lets just let the sound of the game, arena, fans carry the play by play"; cut it out; call the play.

When the NBC feed had to replace John & John about a month ago, here was this professional play-by-play announcer calling the play.

It was so well done, it reminded me of Jim Robson and you could envision the game without looking at the TV.

Another thing this provides is the names of all the players; some of us are not completely familiar with all the players in the NHL and it is great to learn their names while they are performing on the ice.

This is why Bob Cole is my favourite. He may be senile, but he has by far the best cadence. His voice always reflects he pace of the place. Mark Lee is his antithesis, while Jim Hughson has become lazy.

I don't know what Doc Emerick does, but I feel like he spent a past life calling horse races. I have no idea what he is saying half the time and seems to have an affinity for inventing hockey jargon that nobody else has heard of.

[Down by the River]

Torts was a bad coach, and whenever I ask Torts supporters to explain to me what they like about his system, his knowledge of the game, how they rate him as a tactician compared to someone like Babcock, I hear crickets.

[Mustapha]

Torts was a bad coach, and whenever I ask Torts supporters to explain to me what they like about his system, his knowledge of the game, how they rate him as a tactician compared to someone like Babcock, I hear crickets.

I think it's ridiculous to refer to Torts as a 'bad coach'.

He has been involved as a professional coach since 1989, and he has won a championship as a head coach in every league he has coached in.

I admit I don't know enough about his 'system' to give you accurate answers, but it would be fair to assume that his coaching tactics aren't as one dimensional as you might think. I think a good coach adapts to his team's strengths, and Tortorella has shown to be able to do that in his career.

His teams rarely miss the playoffs and they generally compete hard, which is reflected in his career number (nearly 450 regular season wins in the NHL as a coach, which is in roughly the same neighbourhood as Mr. Babcock.

I would place John Tortorella in the same category as Mike Keenan. Great coach, just wasn't great in Vancouver for whatever reason.

[TheXFactor]

I honestly think you could have made the OP shorter if you just listed the (few) individuals in the media that DON'T kick us when they get a chance.

[aqua59]

Actually,it directly calls out the character of Tortorella and indirectly calls out Gillis for hiring him.

Both are gone and it is a fresh start.

Trevor made a bolder move in three weeks than I saw Gillis make in three years.

To add to that Trevor was clear and concise no evasive and contrite.