Was John Totorella a blessing in disguise?

[5nothincanucksohno]

He solved the Luongo problem. He should be put in to the ring for that alone.

haha

[Barry_Wilkins]

Like a scene from a mafia movie, such as "Goodfellas", for example.

Take over a business like a popular restaurant, & milk it completely 'til the tank is emptied.

Act #3 is lighting a match, & burn it to the ground, to collect the insurance.

It may be a cynical outlook, but I see hiring Torts, as lighting the match. TL serves as the ins policy, financing with legitimacy(& buying time), for a new start.

People talk of the financial sacrifice(owners) to buy out MG, Torts, et al, but in a 500 mill+ entity, the whole process seems quite logically calculated, to me.

I'm curious whether this was all,(or even partly) envisioned last summer.

Or maybe Aquaman saw the playoff gates shrink and (last year) disappear. (Nonis was canned after the Cs missed the playoffs, too.)

500 mil or 500 bil, filthy rich owners often get that way because they maximize every penny. Or to put it more succinctly, they're cheap.

Still, a nice conspiracy theory.

[Honky Cat]

Somebody on cdc made a great analogy that Torts was like a suppository for the Canucks..He went in and did what he was supposed to do..and like any good suppository he extricated himself in the process..

[higgyfan]

Can't answer that until I see what the new mgmnt does at the draft, Kes' trade and whoever else comes or goes.

Here's hoping the team's roster this September is looking better than the one last March and that there's some solid prospect in the development tank.

[BurgerKing]

https://soundcloud.c...-hour-2#t=16:05

Above is a clip from the Pratt's Rant in which he reports that Kesler got angry when his teammates didn't vote in his favor for him to get an "A". My question is if the Assistants were picked some other way would Kesler still want to be a Canuck and if so do we put this whole mess on Torts for coming up with the process of picking the assistants and on Gillis for not being aware of the dynamics in the locker room and of the fact this vote was going to take place. Assistants can be picked by the coach or by the captain, in hindsight that may have been the way to go.

Also, Luongo in an interview with Moj yesterday said the Winter Classic was infact the last straw, is that also on Torts and Gillis? I can't locate the link on the TEAM 1040 website

These two events changed the whole compexion of this team moving forward. It will be a challege to get equal value back from the Kesler trade, and even if we do it will take years to realize it. We don't know how Lack will do next year, with Luongo we knew we were gonna get a high level of goaltending for a few years to come.

One can argue that this coming year canucks could have vaulted back to being amoung the elite teams in the west. We pick up a free agent to play with Kes, Maybe sign a guy like Boyle to help the pp, possibly get huge contributions from our rookies similar to what Tofolli, Pearson, Shaw and Saad did for their teams as rookies.

Do you beleive the hiring of Torts ruined a team that was just in need of some tweeks and still in a postion to compete or did he do us all a big favor by expediting the process of a rebuild instead of trying to get it done with an aging core?

[Gross-Misconduct]

Someone beat you to it by a couple minutes

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/361238-was-john-totorella-a-blessing-in-disguise/

[BurgerKing]

LOL, I know, my bad. Sorry folks, didn't see it

[BurgerKing]

One can argue that this coming year canucks could have vaulted back to being amoung the elite teams in the west. We pick up a free agent to play with Kes, Maybe sign a guy like Boyle to help the pp, possibly get huge contributions from our rookies similar to what Tofolli, Pearson, Shaw and Saad did for their teams as rookies.

The hiring of Torts either ruined a team that was just in need of some tweeks and still in a postion to compete or he did us a big favor by expediting the process of a rebuild instead of trying to get it done with an aging core. Its a worth while discussion, the fact we can make solid points for both sides I beleive favors that he ruined a team that still could have done something. It would have been worth it to try one or two more times before going into a rebuild. It is much more harder to start over which is what we are essentially doing.

[TheXFactor]

- Torts overworked our core players. He relied too much on them and I think that had something to do with the team burning out in the 2nd half of the season.

- Regardless of burning out, our core players haven't been the same as 2011 and I doubt they would have been able to do much in the playoffs had we made it in.

- The way Gillis handled the Luongo/Schneider drama, failing to get the right pieces we needed, not getting rid of Edler/Booth who most people wanted out. The fans practically wanted his head so I believe that unless we made a very deep playoff run he was getting fired regardless of who our coach was.

I don't think Torts was a blessing at all but rather he was used as a scapegoat for the s***storm that was bound to happen sooner or later.

[BenDrinkin]

He may be a blessing in the skies, but not for Aquaman!

[Jetliner]

yes. cause we got rid of MG

+1

[bluesman60]

Torts woke up the owners from the spell that Gillis put on them. This team was on the decline and Gillis did absolutely nothing and still rode the 2011's team's success.

No depth, no direction, Lou/CS debacle.. I could go on and on.

Torts exposed the weaknesses on the team that Gillis failed to address.

Now we have a fresh management and coaching that are in sync and we got an early pick.

With a rising cap, I am sure MG would have no problem addressing the teams needs. The whole reduced cap was thrown out there with almost no advance warning so I don't really think any other GM could have done much different.in dealing with Vancouvers contracts. Luo's contract made him untradeable so Schneider had to be moved. MG had to deal with some crazy adjustments in a short period of time and all the GM's out there just had to lowball him and force his hand. As far as the NTC's, they probably were put in there to get a player to accept a lower contract....without them we would have had to let some other players walk for a mere pitance.

[UFCanuck]

I enjoyed the post-game Torts interviews more than the game in the 2nd half of the season.

[bluesman60]

https://soundcloud.c...-hour-2#t=16:05

Above is a clip from the Pratt's Rant in which he reports that Kesler got angry when his teammates didn't vote in his favor for him to get an "A". My question is if the Assistants were picked some other way would Kesler still want to be a Canuck and if so do we put this whole mess on Torts for coming up with the process of picking the assistants and on Gillis for not being aware of the dynamics in the locker room and of the fact this vote was going to take place. Assistants can be picked by the coach or by the captain, in hindsight that may have been the way to go.

Also, Luongo in an interview with Moj yesterday said the Winter Classic was infact the last straw, is that also on Torts and Gillis? I can't locate the link on the TEAM 1040 website

These two events changed the whole compexion of this team moving forward. It will be a challege to get equal value back from the Kesler trade, and even if we do it will take years to realize it. We don't know how Lack will do next year, with Luongo we knew we were gonna get a high level of goaltending for a few years to come.

One can argue that this coming year canucks could have vaulted back to being amoung the elite teams in the west. We pick up a free agent to play with Kes, Maybe sign a guy like Boyle to help the pp, possibly get huge contributions from our rookies similar to what Tofolli, Pearson, Shaw and Saad did for their teams as rookies.

Do you beleive the hiring of Torts ruined a team that was just in need of some tweeks and still in a postion to compete or did he do us all a big favor by expediting the process of a rebuild instead of trying to get it done with an aging core?

This team needs more than a little tweek, It needs an injection of youth and talent that goes all out to win. If MG was not up against a reduced cap and had the cap space to bring in the players that Torts needed, this whole senario would be totally different. As it is, this is where we are now so whether MG and Torts failed or shined is irrelevent. We have a new management team, a new coach and a favorable draft position and a possibility to make some moves...let's hope the new guys at the helm use these favorable circumstances to make the right moves.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Or maybe Aquaman saw the playoff gates shrink and (last year) disappear. (Nonis was canned after the Cs missed the playoffs, too.)

500 mil or 500 bil, filthy rich owners often get that way because they maximize every penny. Or to put it more succinctly, they're cheap.

Still, a nice conspiracy theory.

Alright..was just throwin a strand of spaghetti against the wall, but here's another angle to view from.

Say last summer they bring in Trev(sensing that MG can't climb out of his media-hole/image issues, etc...)

Think of all the unpopular moves TL would have had(together with a new GM) to handle...

-shrinking cap

-buyouts to make(not good for team/GM image)

-A new CBA to interpret lingo(one of MG's strong pts)

-AV's time was done

-Lu had one foot out the door

-tribute to Pavel(he didn't seem interested in!)

-new NTC player signings that weren't meshing(eg:Edler)

& most of all, a fanbase that still wasn't ready to move on from the 2011 nucleus. Just as Keenan(& his short, destructive reign) helped us collectively move on from the '94 base; Torts/MG(ill-matched hybrid?) helped us move on from 2011.

It wouldn't be rocket science to anticipate this wasn't gonna' fly, would it?

[Barry_Wilkins]

Alright..was just throwin a strand of spaghetti against the wall, but here's another angle to view from.

Say last summer they bring in Trev(sensing that MG can't climb out of his media-hole/image issues, etc...)

Think of all the unpopular moves TL would have had(together with a new GM) to handle...

-shrinking cap

-buyouts to make(not good for team/GM image)

-A new CBA to interpret lingo(one of MG's strong pts)

-AV's time was done

-Lu had one foot out the door

-tribute to Pavel(he didn't seem interested in!)

-new NTC player signings that weren't meshing(eg:Edler)

& most of all, a fanbase that still wasn't ready to move on from the 2011 nucleus. Just as Keenan(& his short, destructive reign) helped us collectively move on from the '94 base; Torts/MG(ill-matched hybrid?) helped us move on from 2011.

It wouldn't be rocket science to anticipate this wasn't gonna' fly, would it?

But why not just hire the raging nestbeard to a 2 year deal, then? Or scoop some nondescript assistant who'd be glad for the enhanced CV at whatever the coach minimum would be?

No, if we can go with the rumours that Aqua's fingerprints were all over Torts' signing, it's more likely that the owner(s) thought a fellow paisano could boot some a$$es straight into at least two rounds of playoff gravy.

If anything good's come of last year's debacle, maybe the Aquas'll learn to defer more to the the new hockey guys.

[Nuxfanabroad]

But why not just hire the raging nestbeard to a 2 year deal, then? Or scoop some nondescript assistant who'd be glad for the enhanced CV at whatever the coach minimum would be?

No, if we can go with the rumours that Aqua's fingerprints were all over Torts' signing, it's more likely that the owner(s) thought a fellow paisano could boot some a$$es straight into at least two rounds of playoff gravy.

If anything good's come of last year's debacle, maybe the Aquas'll learn to defer more to the the new hockey guys.

Admittedly that's the strongest argument to counter my "creative destruction theory"; so I can't assume Torts' juicy 4 yr deal was a smokescreen?... :^)

Another unrelated question that makes me wonder, is how do these guys keep the books, anyhow? Do the league/individual franchises squabble about this one? If you write off contracts, does it simply cut into your profits, thereby reducing your rev sharing commitments? Or did the league force owners to make that buyout-commitment out of their own pocket?

I could see the league trying to milk every available dollar for rev sharing(sunbelt-bound), & dinging Cdn franchises especially, whatever pie-slice they can get away with.

[danjr]

I was so happy when the announced him.

Then his system of having everyone block shots just slayed me.

With a team of plumbers you block shots.

With talent and world class goalies, block the passing lanes and let the goalie see the shots.

How many goals went off our own players, and the goalie couldn't stop them? PLENTY.

How many injuries occurred due to blocking shots.............waaaaay to many.

It was a disgusting style of hockey to watch. I wanted to throat punch myself into submission for most of the games.

I never want to see another of his coached teams play a game. Makes me sick.

[BurgerKing]

 

This team needs more than a little tweek, It needs an injection of youth and talent that goes all out to win. If MG was not up against a reduced cap and had the cap space to bring in the players that Torts needed, this whole senario would be totally different. As it is, this is where we are now so whether MG and Torts failed or shined is irrelevent. We have a new management team, a new coach and a favorable draft position and a possibility to make some moves...let's hope the new guys at the helm use these favorable circumstances to make the right moves.

 

Yeah but as a coach you coach the players you have, not ask the GM to get better players, I have never heard any coach say that before. There isn't a single team in the league we could say will win the cup next yeara, I wouldn't bet the house on any one team. They still had some solid pieces, the last few years they were not able to add guys in free agency becasue of the cap, this year they were gonna have the opportunity to spend also there was reason to beleive some of their prospects could be inserted in to the line up. They would be far from the favorites, but there was definately a possiblity they were gonna be better this coming year with the exisiting core.

[Canuck Surfer]

For better or worse having Torts resulted in a reality check for many Canuck faithful.

Reality check does note equal objectivity though?

Torts lost the room and we went on a free fall corresponding to the Hartley incident. Torts lost his mind inclusive, with how he used some of our players strategically. We fell from 8th overall in the league in December to 6th last with little or no productivity from large portions of our players who were productive prior.

My opinion is that the team may not be championship calibre anymore. So tweaks and changes ARE called for.

But its also my opinion that we are a lot better than 6th worst. Complete overhauls and calls to tank are equally over the top!

Patience is also relevent. By and large last year was a year where we were doing a market correction; FIXING our poor cap position. We fixed a lot, but were not left with money to spend on the big, fast depth players we enjoyed in recent seasons (that would have improved our match up position against division rivals). We were always going to have a tougher than normal year.

But Tortorella completely fracked it! Good riddance...