peaches5 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 How so? Are you saying Toews = to Crosby and that Kane is also his equal? Crosby had 104 points this year. Kane had 69 and Toews 68. So, Kane is worth 66% of Crosby and Toews 65%. Kane should get $7.92 mil and Toews $7.8 mil. Thanks for saving the Hawks some money from that earlier quote I made which was CAP hit and not salary. Oh, also, once Crosby's salary drops to $3 million, so should Kane and Toews - right? You're basing your numbers of salary as if each year the salary cap is the same when in most years with the exception being lockouts the salary cap always goes up so players salaries always go up. The value of players then goes up because there is more money to be spent. The contract also limits salary variance on contracts from year to year to no more than 35% and no year can be less than 50% of the highest year. Kane and Toews cannot have contracts like Crosby's. If you take Crosby's contract remove the 3 years at 3 million and 1 year a 9 million he is making 86.4 million dollars over 8 years which would put his cap hit at 10.8 million dollars a year. and this was while the salary cap was at 64.3 million dollars. You're allowed to pay your player 20% of your salary cap so the max salary was 12.8 million per year. With the projected salary cap to be 71.1 this coming up year 20% of that for a max salary 14.2 million so Toews and Kane getting contracts in the range of 12 million is very accurate and fair. and if you added on 4 years you could bring that average down 3-4 million but you can't. And to answer your question I'd rather have Kane - Toews than Crosby - Malkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touchable Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 How so? Are you saying Toews = to Crosby and that Kane is also his equal? Crosby had 104 points this year. Kane had 69 and Toews 68. So, Kane is worth 66% of Crosby and Toews 65%. Kane should get $7.92 mil and Toews $7.8 mil. Thanks for saving the Hawks some money from that earlier quote I made which was CAP hit and not salary. Oh, also, once Crosby's salary drops to $3 million, so should Kane and Toews - right? Your argument fails because Crosby took a hometown discount to sign that contract in Pittsburgh. Are you telling me that if he was a free agent right now, someone wouldn't offer him a 7 year, $70-80m contract? Is Crosby the centre of the hockey universe? Why does every player's worth have to be measured against his? If Kesler makes $5m, does that mean that Patrice Bergeron can only sign a contract up to $4.9m? While Burrows was on his $2m cap hit contract, was Steve Ott not allowed to sign for anything more than $1.9m? Your "8.6" number is completely arbitrary. Crosby's contract was signed in 2008, under a different CBA. How is it at all relevant to contract that will be coming into effect in 2015, under a much higher salary cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 That cause we have betty to blame.getting a sport to its peak you have to have a strong base.If he put more teams in Canada where they would be all sell outs instead of poor attendance in the states the game would be better, then he could expand into the states.he rushed going to places where the game in having a hard time. The NHL has far better attendance in the US than the NBA. I do believe there are 2-3 places in Canada that could support an NHL franchise but to grow the NHL you need to be in the US. It's just that the NHL needs to go to places like Seattle and Portland before trying to grow hockey in places like Phoenix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 You're basing your numbers of salary as if each year the salary cap is the same when in most years with the exception being lockouts the salary cap always goes up so players salaries always go up. The value of players then goes up because there is more money to be spent. The contract also limits salary variance on contracts from year to year to no more than 35% and no year can be less than 50% of the highest year. Kane and Toews cannot have contracts like Crosby's. If you take Crosby's contract remove the 3 years at 3 million and 1 year a 9 million he is making 86.4 million dollars over 8 years which would put his cap hit at 10.8 million dollars a year. and this was while the salary cap was at 64.3 million dollars. You're allowed to pay your player 20% of your salary cap so the max salary was 12.8 million per year. With the projected salary cap to be 71.1 this coming up year 20% of that for a max salary 14.2 million so Toews and Kane getting contracts in the range of 12 million is very accurate and fair. and if you added on 4 years you could bring that average down 3-4 million but you can't. And to answer your question I'd rather have Kane - Toews than Crosby - Malkin. My numbers were based on Crosby making $12 million from your previous post. If we drop it to $10.8, then my numbers go down even more. Maybe you should stick with the original offer of $8.6 ? I never asked who you would rather have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Your argument fails because Crosby took a hometown discount to sign that contract in Pittsburgh. Are you telling me that if he was a free agent right now, someone wouldn't offer him a 7 year, $70-80m contract? Is Crosby the centre of the hockey universe? Why does every player's worth have to be measured against his? If Kesler makes $5m, does that mean that Patrice Bergeron can only sign a contract up to $4.9m? While Burrows was on his $2m cap hit contract, was Steve Ott not allowed to sign for anything more than $1.9m? Your "8.6" number is completely arbitrary. Crosby's contract was signed in 2008, under a different CBA. How is it at all relevant to contract that will be coming into effect in 2015, under a much higher salary cap? I'm not telling you that at all. I'm just comparing performance - and Kane was .66 of Crosby's performance and Toews .65 this past year. That "8.6" number wasn't mine - I was quoting someone from TSN and it turns out that it's his Cap hit - which really is what matters anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apricot Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 They will probably both settle at $8-9M/ year.. Like it was mentioned above, I don't think both will be Hawks in the future. I could see Kane leaving to somewhere like Buffalo where he could get the money he wants. Probably get 20 cents signing bonus too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrPrucha25 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Don't get me wrong, I think Crosby is one heck of a player, but I would go with Toews. Crosby can dance all he wants in the regular season, but he has been shut down in the past couple post seasons. Toews is a guy who can play in any situation, and can come up big when most needed. lol... Crosby has not been "shut down" the past couple of post seasons. He has only ever once been under a ppg in the playoffs and that was this season where the entire penguins team struggled. As far as ppg leaders among current players goes, Crosby is first and the only player close to him is Malkin. I'm not trying to discredit Toews or Kane at all, but Crosby is the best player of the current NHL era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monteeun Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 lol... Crosby has not been "shut down" the past couple of post seasons. He has only ever once been under a ppg in the playoffs and that was this season where the entire penguins team struggled. As far as ppg leaders among current players goes, Crosby is first and the only player close to him is Malkin. I'm not trying to discredit Toews or Kane at all, but Crosby is the best player of the current NHL era. You're right...Crosby wasn't shutdown. He just didn't show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Aerosex Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Starting point. Its how you negotiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubuya Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 How could the blackhawks possibly afford to sign those guys to even 10 mill cap hits and acquire Kesler as well? Kesler makes 5 mill per season. You think he'll be happy as a top player playing with guys who are making twice as much as him? He'll want to get paid when his contract is up and Chicago won't have the room. So if Chicago wants to sell the farm for a couple years of Kesler at 5 million thats great but I can't see Bowman and co going for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Would be smart to deal Kane to his hometown, Buff. They could offer a slew of picks/youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Hard to take this report seriously. Patrick Kane is imo the most over-rated, one dimensional player in the game. The thing that rings truest about his game as far as I'm concerned is that he enjoys the highest offensive zone starts on the Hawks, at a whopping 69.8%, and yet his relative corsi is a paltry 1.1, 15th best on the Hawks, and his ozone finishes scarcely over 50%. That is a whole lot of territory his team-mates generate that he simply concedes with his floating and vacancy without th puck. The idea that a player like that, despite a ppg (on a high flying club), is the most valuable on his team is laughable as far as I'm concerned. Severely over-rated - and the money he's essentially looking to take from his team-mates is an insult to the entire roster. If this is the starting point of negotiations, I would simply instruct him to submit a list of teams and would be looking to Phil-Kessel the first sucker club that wants to pay premier assets to take those ludicrous expectations of my hands. Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 You can certainly make a case to prefer Toews on your team over Crosby. It at least deserves a better retort than emoticon spam. Just not a very good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmployeeoftheMonth Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Kane to Panthers. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetrPrucha25 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 You're right...Crosby wasn't shutdown. He just didn't show up. Yeah, 9 points in 13 games is not showing up... The post I was responding to said he was shutdown the last couple playoffs, which is not true at all. The whole penguins team struggled this playoffs, not just Crosby. He faces the hardest checking in all the NHL and constantly puts up numbers while playing with meh linemates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senpai Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 They will get paid around 10 million.And they deserve every penny of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreFan1 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I'm glad I'm not a GM in Vancouver. I would be hugely unpopular between this issue and the way I would handle Euros and Russians before, during, and after the draft. I believe in the current system as long as the league's owners and GMs can restrain themselves. Unfortunately the past has shown that team executives have a habit of acting before thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheXFactor Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Hard to take this report seriously. Patrick Kane is imo the most over-rated, one dimensional player in the game. Good thing you said "imo".. Saying the amount of things wrong with your post would have me working all night if you tried to pass it off as a fact. Regardless, i'll agree that neither Kane nor Toews are worth $12 million Crosby > Toews in every aspect except leadership and size. Toews is more successful because of how much better the team is around him. This is coming from a Crosby hater and a Toews fan. Either Pittsburgh pays Crosby more or Chicago would be better off letting Toews go and going after Crosby since he's cheaper... and its clear which one has more raw talent. Stamkos > Kane. Better playmaker, better goal scorer, more size, more skill, and better defensively, and he's younger. If Kane gets $12 million, Stamkos should be making at least $13 million. Unless every superstar is getting a $3-$5 million raise for their next contracts then Chicago would have to be stupid to pay them with 8 figures. Considering the salary cap (even if it goes up to $75 million), a team would still be better off with much cheaper, arguably equally talented players. $24 million for 2 players will affect any team's depth, and frankly i'm expecting one of them to be moved or they drop the asking price by a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 NHL stars seriously make a lot less than other sports. With the cap going up, don't be surprised to see stars requesting 10 million Oh, those poor, poor NHL stars. I guess they need that extra 2 million a year for.... something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 They'll end up around 9M like most other top players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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