TOMapleLaughs Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Why are fans assuming Virtanen would get ice time in Utica? Utica is in Calder CUP play. I doubt a young player like Virtanen would get any TOI. I doubt he would even go to Utica. Send him home to Van and have him skate with the Canucks so that he can get a feel for pro hockey by practicing and working out there.Utica does what we want them to. That's the point of having your own farm team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Utica does what we want them to. That's the point of having your own farm team.it would be pretty foolish to play jake in a game while others that have contributed to the comets would be in the press box. He doesnt know the systems and has yet to play against men. Every game that the comets play after jake would join is important. Not worth the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) it would be pretty foolish to play jake in a game while others that have contributed to the comets would be in the press box. He doesnt know the systems and has yet to play against men. Every game that the comets play after jake would join is important. Not worth the risk.That's up to the organization to decide. fwiw I see no risk at all. People assumed Baertschi would be in Utica for the rest of the season and playoffs, because that's what was best for him, yada-yada-yada. Obviously Benning and Linden had other ideas. Edited April 6, 2015 by TOMapleLaughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 News1130 Sports @News1130Sports 6m6 minutes ago If Calgary loses to Kootenay in game 7 tonight, season over for Jake Virtanen. # News1130 Sports @News1130Sports 6m6 minutes ago Virtanen is not eligible to play for the Utica Comets but could join the #Canucks. Agent Jarrett Bousquet says he has not talked to Van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 That's up to the organization to decide. fwiw I see no risk at all.well in that case why not bench vey and have JV play for the big club if there is no risk? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) Virtanen is not eligible to play for the Utica Comets but could join the #Canucks. Agent Jarrett Bousquet says he has not talked to Van. Confused as to how Virtanen is not eligible to play in the AHL. Jensen did at 18yo. As did Schroeder and Coho. Edited April 6, 2015 by TOMapleLaughs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicklas Bo Hunter Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Virtanen would be an amazing piece to have for our play off run. Sedin Sedin Kassian Higgins Bonino Vrbata Baertschi Matthias Dorsett Virtanen Horvat Hansen Each line has grit and size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Confused as to how Virtanen is not eligible to play in the AHL. Jensen did at 18yo. As did Schroeder and Coho. too big of a bust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderTwinPowers Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) Right. And my point was not to suggest that you were saying that he'd outproduce Petan or Merkley, but that he would not be in the same realm as other top performers around the league if he played top performer minutes like the others (just bringing another point of view in interpreting those numbers) As you point out, consistency is what you are concerned about (pretty much everyone in this thread, for that matter), and it may have been what the Hitmen staff were concerned about as well - one simply could not rely on Virtanen to be the offensive engine of the team game in and game out this season. It makes me wonder whether it really is the case that Jake "did well given his circumstances," or "his circumstances" (not playing top performer minutes with top linemates) were brought on as a result of his inconsistent play and the coach not being able to trust Jake to bring it every night because he just didn't know which Jake was going to show on any given night Maybe that's one of the things he needs to develop more to be more consistent. Just as physical attributes can be developed to a certain extent (Johnny Gaudreau can bulk up a bit more, but he'll never be strong like Jake Virtanen on the ice - there's a physical limit there), so can hockey IQ to a certain extent (Jake can smarten up a bit more, but he'll never be as smart as Johnny Gaudreau on the ice - there's a limit here as well) Jake's assist rate going up doesn't mean anything unless you've watched the games and can tell me he was setting up teammates with beauty passes - all it could mean is that goalies were making more saves on Jake's first shot and teammates capitalized on the rebounds, for example I'm excited too for Jake to take the next step in the following season that I think many were hoping he would this year, and become a dominant player in the WI understand that you and other posters like to play devils advocate which is nice because it keeps this place at a medium instead of to high or too low. And any stat or anything can always be turned for example assists go up, could be from rebounds, could be trying to use his teammates better. If he scored 50+ goals then suddenly he's just to big and strong to play in juniors and his stats are suddenly compared to Sestito in his final OHL year for some reason (Elvis brought that up earlier) or even your rebuttle for his P/60 min being so high. I've only watched about 3 or 4 hitmen games + WJC this season, not enough to say anything for certain. Just like most people in this thread, potentially yourself. I saw Jake shooting less then a player with his caliber of shot usually would, and I saw him making a few beauty passes to start plays and not receive the biscuit back in a prime shooting position. He's played behind overagers which is hard for any younger player to surpass depth wise, especially while those overagers are producing like Tambellini has this season. I'm just excited to see what he'll do next year with a clean slate, just as you said you are. And I'm shaking my head at people mentioning trading this kid already for a 10-17th overall this year. Lucic, Horton, Stewart, Hartnel, E. Kane all these types of players have up and down years kind of notorious trait for power forwards. I believe this was just a one off year for Jake, due to multiple reasons. hope he proves me right next season. Edited April 6, 2015 by WonderTwinPowers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 virtanen IS eligible to play in AHL, that news 1130 statement is very false. "Only those players on a team’s playoff eligibility list, plus signed draft choices and players signed to amateur tryout contracts, are eligible to compete in the Calder Cup Playoffs." Virtanen, being a signed draft choice, is very much eligible for the comets. http://theahl.com/ahl-weekly-release-p182341 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderTwinPowers Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 virtanen IS eligible to play in AHL, that news 1130 statement is very false. "Only those players on a teams playoff eligibility list, plus signed draft choices and players signed to amateur tryout contracts, are eligible to compete in the Calder Cup Playoffs." Virtanen, being a signed draft choice, is very much eligible for the comets.http://theahl.com/ahl-weekly-release-p182341 Thanks for looking into that, didn't seem to make sense that he was ineligible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 Thanks for looking into that, didn't seem to make sense that he was ineligible what they MIGHT have meant is that if he goes to the AHL, he'll be stuck there, because we already used our 4 call-ups and he'd only be eligible to come up on an emergency basis. but this would only matter if they legitimately wanted to play him in the NHL this season... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderTwinPowers Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 what they MIGHT have meant is that if he goes to the AHL, he'll be stuck there, because we already used our 4 call-ups and he'd only be eligible to come up on an emergency basis. but this would only matter if they legitimately wanted to play him in the NHL this season... Same as Sam Bennett I believe right? Which is why he's now in Calagry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 what they MIGHT have meant is that if he goes to the AHL, he'll be stuck there, because we already used our 4 call-ups and he'd only be eligible to come up on an emergency basis. but this would only matter if they legitimately wanted to play him in the NHL this season...Doesn't a team have unlimited callups when playoffs start?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) Doesn't a team have unlimited callups when playoffs start?? yes, but during the regular season we are limited to the 4 players we already used recalls on, and any players recalled on emergency basis due to injury. Same as Sam Bennett I believe right? Which is why he's now in Calagry yeah, same dealio That is, if that's what News1130 was talking about. they may have just been flat out wrong in their assumptions too. Edited April 6, 2015 by avelanch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) IMO, the numbers you compare actually only show how amazing Nic Petan is in the WHL, rather than show how impressive Jake's production has been considering his minutes For example, Brad Richardson (2.10) has a better P/60 than Henrik Sedin (2.00) - does that mean Richardson would outproduce Henrik if he played Hank's minutes? Against the competition that Hank faces? Hell no - Richardson's P/60 would drop like a rock if he played Hank's minutes because he wouldn't be able to score at that clip with more minutes against tougher competition Another example - just compare P/60 of Henrik playing monster minutes under Tortorella (1.80) vs Henrik playing managed minutes under Desjardins (2.00) - same player, higher P/60 with less minutes (stats from BehindTheNet) Now, I'm not saying that Jake is like Richardson and Petan is like Henrik. Jake obviously has skills that make him an offensive threat every night, but he doesn't have the consistency to be a threat every night (like Petan and Henrik) It's nice that Jake has a great P/60, but I think his lower TOI actually covers up the inconsistencies in his game. The names you find Jake among are the guys that bring it every night and are relied on for offence every night, and we know Jake's struggles with consistency - if Jake were to actually play the minutes that those guys play, I would bet that his name would not be found among theirs and be lower in the list Sidenote - Bukarts and Draisaitl are 1995s (turned 19 last calendar year), so I guess Jake would be 4th among 1996s WHLers (if that means much at all) Man, I sound awfully negative in my last few posts in this thread... I'm just concerned that our highest pick since the twins seems to have had an off-year for whatever reason. I wanna end it on a positive note that I still believe in Jake and am glad we have a prospect with the tools that he has. Once he goes to Utica when Calgary's season is over (I'd actually prefer that they win tomorrow and keep going in the WHL playoffs because I think it's important for him to experience some team success there), I'm hoping that Green should be able to diagnose what went wrong in Calgary for JakeWhile scoring-only stats are nice to overview, I think you have to look at it this way with 17-18yo players with regards to NHL effectiveness: "When he's not trying to score, he's ___________." If the blank is 'watching his team getting scored on' or 'getting physically dominated' or 'waiting up-ice to get the puck again', then there would be a legit concern with his development. But that doesn't describe Virtanen. To that end we've seen an improvement in his playmaking skills, his attention to defense, particularly in a shut-down role, and of course his size and strength, to the point of bullying everyone on the ice. We cannot confirm this with stats alone, but my feeling is that his development path right now is set to get him into the NHL in an effective two-way role sooner rather than later. Pretty much like how it was done with Horvat, who had a defensive acumen and size but had to work on his speed. Virtanen has the speed, so what did he focus on? His defensive acumen. I think we're gradually starting to figure out why a player like, for instance, Coho could not transfer his amazing junior numbers to the NHL and why you have to be an elite scorer at the NHL level to make up for a total lack of defense, and even then you're still going to need defense to stick in the NHL. Coho went from CHL player of the year to buyout candidate. Further to that, even AHL-level offensive numbers are meaningless. Was there 'great concern' when Horvat went pointless in his 5 AHL games? To the fans, yes, but to management and scouts, no. Horvat's a 19-20yr old NHL level beast now while an AHL all-star like Vey is still finding his way at age 24. I'm not sure if Virtanen is eligible for AHL time or not after his Hitmen season is done, but it should be interesting to see where Benning/Linden put him at that point. Like Horvat, I doubt he'll need much AHL time at all. Edited April 6, 2015 by TOMapleLaughs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsiders Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Would rather have Virtanen up here around the big boys, travelling and feeling like he's " A part of the team ". He won't be playing in Utica and stuff. So he will practice with us after tonight ( if he's team loses ) and then if we clinch tonight I thought he might get the one game against the oilers to give a guy like Dorsett the night off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Virtanen would be an amazing piece to have for our play off run. Sedin Sedin Kassian Higgins Bonino Vrbata Baertschi Matthias Dorsett Virtanen Horvat Hansen Each line has grit and size Would rather have Burr and Richardson on the roster before Virt and Baer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Highly unlikely Virtanen plays in Utica. The existing team is already full of Vancouver prospects who are headed for Calder Cup play. They are not going to break a young player like Virtanen into that lineup and possibly hurt the team's prospects or ruin roster morale. It is not about Utica protecting their turf it is about the best environment for the prospects already in Utica. If anything I see Virtanen headed to Vancouver to work out and scrimmage with the Canucks. No, he won't play there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 yeah, i doubt virt plays any games for either team, but i can see him going to the nucks first and then the AHL if the nucks are eliminated first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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